Miami Heat 2016 Offseason Thread; "It will be fun in July"- July-er(Part XIII)

[Heat_Fan_87]

jankovic making it rain in summer league right now

[Prince Ali]

NBA free agents 2017

1. Curry
2.Westbrick
3. Blake
4. Giannis
5. Paul
6. Gobert
7. Hayward
8. Lowry
9. Schroeder RFA
10. Gallinari

Yea the more I see things the more its clear there should be a shift from the "whale FA" philosophy. The best play for this team is going to be to continue develop its current youth core and trust the scouting department to add more blue chip prospects through the draft/undrafted pool. That's going to require patience and understanding we may not be a championship contender for the next 2 years but we'll be better in the long haul..that's the Golden State model. They had a chance to trade one of their core guys + picks for Kevin Love a couple of years ago, you think they're happy they didn't pull the trigger? Meanwhile OKC has done the exact opposite and now they're on the verge of extinction. Granted GS had 3 lottery picks but we've got 3 lottery talents with just 1 lottery pick. I like the recent track record of our scouting department, its very possible that coveted "whale" wont be there in FA until 2019, Riley and the FO are going to have to fight the urge to make a deal next season that costs us 2 young players.

Does Pat stay that long just to have a shot at a possible player in 2019? I just dont see that happening

Yea Riley's not going to be here for 3 more years. Im just saying it would be short sighted to move 2 young guys along with Dragic now for a player that still doesnt make you an instant contender. Safest play is to re-evaluate any trades next year.

[smartcane]

Obviously I'd rather keep Whiteside over Bosh, especially since I am the one who has been talking about stretching Bosh and keeping him off the court since Wade negotiations. The problem is, forcing retirement is proving to be a lot trickier than keeping him off till February and then losing his salary. Because if another team at any other point takes a chance on him after that, even at the minimum, he apparently comes right back on our books. Also, if he is cleared and can play, then we have 2 players taking up half our cap that are best at the same position. So assuming Bosh is untradeable because no other team wants to risk trading for him, what do we do? Just keep them both and be terrible until he expires? Or make Whiteside available and get some value?

Even if Bosh looks good to begin the year, his health and reliability will likely be a question mark for the rest of his career. Even though I agree Bosh fits better at center, there is a chance that he will have to retire at any moment. You don't trade your best player in order to accommodate a player in Bosh's situation.

This isn't about being emotional attached to Whiteside. It's about acknowledging the reality that we can't treat Bosh as part of the future of this team until he can at least play a full season. This move would be an absolute disaster if Bosh retired half way through the year.

I know everyone is looking at the beginning of year and saying that Bosh and Whiteside can't play together but that is idiotic( sorry). The beginning of the year issues was due to style of play where Bosh would be isolated with the ball and there would be nothing for Whiteside to do but watch because you typically do not run a PF and C screen. Also with Wade of the floor the Whiteside and Dragic had less space to work. In the new offense Bosh is a better fit than Deng was because Bosh is a better shooter and passer. It would be similar to how Jordan and Griffen work, how Tyson Chandler and Dirk worked, and how Dramond Green and Bogut work. Bosh is the perfect modern PF cause he can shoot from any where, pass the ball to cutters, Defend almost every position, and play out the post if we need him to.

[gom]

Even if Bosh looks good to begin the year, his health and reliability will likely be a question mark for the rest of his career. Even though I agree Bosh fits better at center, there is a chance that he will have to retire at any moment. You don't trade your best player in order to accommodate a player in Bosh's situation.

This isn't about being emotional attached to Whiteside. It's about acknowledging the reality that we can't treat Bosh as part of the future of this team until he can at least play a full season. This move would be an absolute disaster if Bosh retired half way through the year.

I know everyone is looking at the beginning of year and saying that Bosh and Whiteside can't play together but that is idiotic( sorry). The beginning of the year issues was due to style of play where Bosh would be isolated with the ball and there would be nothing for Whiteside to do but watch because you typically do not run a PF and C screen. Also with Wade of the floor the Whiteside and Dragic had less space to work. In the new offense Bosh is a better fit than Deng was because Bosh is a better shooter and passer. It would be similar to how Jordan and Griffen work, how Tyson Chandler and Dirk worked, and how Dramond Green and Bogut work. Bosh is the perfect modern PF cause he can shoot from any where, pass the ball to cutters, Defend almost every position, and play out the post if we need him to.

I agree with you, Smartcane. I hope Bosh is back.

[abark]

I think I read a book once about this subject...

The 2008 NBA Draft:
When Tanking Blows Up In Your Face
Author: The Miami Heat

Personally, I was a fan of "A Treadmill to Nowhere" by the '07-12 Atlanta Hawks.

[MFlash321]

Real pic from a HEAT Facebook post:

[IggieCC]

Spoiler:

[SCHeat]

Ehh. The picks we sent were:

2011: #54
2012: #34
2013: #30
2016: #24

Easy to go back and see "this, this, and that guy were available" but the reality none of those picks ended up being particularly valuable. Yes Toronto lucked into Valanciunas but no one expected him to be as good as he is.

The thing is we traded four picks for a free agent to get him an extra year he didn't use. It wasnt necessary to do that anyway with an opt out year. That's not good business.

The Toronto pick we gave back ended up being Jonas, who I and many others felt was a very good player. Once again, not necessary as Bosh opted out as well

Wait. The picks I included above were just for Lebron. 2013 and 2016 first rounders, 2012 swap, and a 2011 second rounder.

Jonas was the fifth pick in 2011. We sent a lottery protected pick to Toronto for Bosh that turned out to be Bruno Capoclo. (20 in 2014)

So again, not really a loss although I agree with your premise, it was a pointless trade.

See 33 below

http://heathoops.com/draft-picks/historical-picks/

[DayofMourning]

Ehh. The picks we sent were:

2011: #54
2012: #34
2013: #30
2016: #24

Easy to go back and see "this, this, and that guy were available" but the reality none of those picks ended up being particularly valuable. Yes Toronto lucked into Valanciunas but no one expected him to be as good as he is.

The thing is we traded four picks for a free agent to get him an extra year he didn't use. It wasnt necessary to do that anyway with an opt out year. That's not good business.

The Toronto pick we gave back ended up being Jonas, who I and many others felt was a very good player. Once again, not necessary as Bosh opted out as well

Wait. The picks I included above were just for Lebron. 2013 and 2016 first rounders, 2012 swap, and a 2011 second rounder.

Jonas was the fifth pick in 2011. We sent a lottery protected pick to Toronto for Bosh that turned out to be Bruno Capoclo. (20 in 2014)

So again, not really a loss although I agree with your premise, it was a pointless trade.

See 33 below

http://heathoops.com/draft-picks/historical-picks/

Okay. I was just going with what you and Heat3 had stated. Didn't follow up.

[RexBoyWonder]

I know everyone is looking at the beginning of year and saying that Bosh and Whiteside can't play together but that is idiotic( sorry). The beginning of the year issues was due to style of play where Bosh would be isolated with the ball and there would be nothing for Whiteside to do but watch because you typically do not run a PF and C screen. Also with Wade of the floor the Whiteside and Dragic had less space to work. In the new offense Bosh is a better fit than Deng was because Bosh is a better shooter and passer. It would be similar to how Jordan and Griffen work, how Tyson Chandler and Dirk worked, and how Dramond Green and Bogut work. Bosh is the perfect modern PF cause he can shoot from any where, pass the ball to cutters, Defend almost every position, and play out the post if we need him to.

I agree with you, Smartcane. I hope Bosh is back.

Totally disagree. It's true that our style made the Hassan/Bosh pairing even worse, but it's mainly a skillset issue.

Bosh is not a good passer. He's really not. He's also not fast these days. He can shoot the 3's, but he's not a volume shooter and need time and space to gather. He's best suited to be a C at his age, he's not as quick and agile as he once were.

In todays game you can't have 2 lumbering 7 footers in your starting 5, it won't look pretty.
The only positive I can think of is that if we can have great 3 point shooting around them (which might be easier with Wade gone and Dragon/Justise hopefully improving and Rich TJ getting more minutes ) - it will create more much needed space for them in the mid post and paint.

Still, the ideal fit for Hassan is a true quick catch and shot stretch 4 that can move and pass, and for Bosh it's a true quick defensive hustler PF that can move and pass.

I'ts not hopeless, but it wasn't a natural fit so adjustments will need to happen and Spo will have his work cut out for him finding a way to make these 2 work together in a system that should be high pace.

If Bosh is back, the answer to this question will be the biggest factor of our season IMO.

[twix2500]

that was also the year when they were making moves to clear space for 2010. glad they had a long term vision and stayed true to it rather than some vain attempt at mediocrity.

I was still super pissed that we traded Beasley for nothing. What did we get in return, a second round pick? Beasley's **** must have stunk real bad, or Riley was tunnel vision on getting the big three because Beasley was only entering his third year and was nowhere near a bust.

Also trading draft picks to Toronto and Cleveland triggered my gag reflex. The story was that the picks were used to max the contracts out through sign and trades, but it feels like something more than that.

It was the drug problem that made Riley trade Beasley. And Beasley was trade for space to sign Mike Miller. They wanted veterans around Lebron

DoM, go to sleep.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[RexBoyWonder]

Beasley is the poster child of why high character matters.

Wasn't talent or even physical tools that killed him - it was all about mental toughness, focus, work ethic, hunger, BB IQ.

He had more natural talent then Justise, but he's the completely opposite personality.

[twix2500]

Idk if was here in realgm. During the season I was thinking about the possibility of the Heat resigning Hassan to the Max and I said if Hassan get the Max, the Heat will have to remodel the team. And basically that's what happened

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[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Beasley is the poster child of why high character matters.

Wasn't talent or even physical tools that killed him - it was all about mental toughness, focus, work ethic, hunger, BB IQ.

He had more natural talent then Justise, but he's the completely opposite personality.

Beasley wasn't a bad kid. It wasn't that he lacked BBALL IQ...... the kid lacked IQ in general.

[RexBoyWonder]

Beasley is the poster child of why high character matters.

Wasn't talent or even physical tools that killed him - it was all about mental toughness, focus, work ethic, hunger, BB IQ.

He had more natural talent then Justise, but he's the completely opposite personality.

Beasley wasn't a bad kid. It wasn't that he lacked BBALL IQ...... the kid lacked IQ in general.

Has nothing to od with being good or bad person. Beas always gave me a vibe of a kind, warm hearted, immature soul.

Sadly to be successful in the NBA you need a different type of personality. But he's still a really likeable person IMO.

[IggieCC]

Still, the ideal fit for Hassan is a true quick catch and shot stretch 4 that can move and pass, and for Bosh it's a true quick defensive hustler PF that can move and pass.

too bad he's more like catch and pump fake and pass it to the next guy when no one is around you stretch 4

[RexBoyWonder]

Still, the ideal fit for Hassan is a true quick catch and shot stretch 4 that can move and pass, and for Bosh it's a true quick defensive hustler PF that can move and pass.

too bad he's more like catch and pump fake and pass it to the next guy when no one is around you stretch 4

People will laugh, but If Mcbob could just stay healthy and start **** shooting when open (like he did in Charlotte) - he would've been really nice here next to Hassan. For some reason he lost all confidence in his 3 point shot, doesn't even take them and when he does he's not hitting.

[IggieCC]

Still, the ideal fit for Hassan is a true quick catch and shot stretch 4 that can move and pass, and for Bosh it's a true quick defensive hustler PF that can move and pass.

Spoiler:

too bad he's more like catch and pump fake and pass it to the next guy when no one is around you stretch 4

People will laugh, but If Mcbob could just stay healthy and start **** shooting when open (like he did in Charlotte) - he would've been really nice here next to Hassan. For some reason he lost all confidence in his 3 point shot, doesn't even take them and when he does he's not hitting.

If Bosh is no go, I don't mind watching Bob play extended mins this season. Maybe that's what's needed for him to be the Hornet Bob.

If that doesn't work, he'll be a great tank commander. Win-win experiment at least

[eddieheatfan]

Still, the ideal fit for Hassan is a true quick catch and shot stretch 4 that can move and pass, and for Bosh it's a true quick defensive hustler PF that can move and pass.

too bad he's more like catch and pump fake and pass it to the next guy when no one is around you stretch 4

People will laugh, but If Mcbob could just stay healthy and start **** shooting when open (like he did in Charlotte) - he would've been really nice here next to Hassan. For some reason he lost all confidence in his 3 point shot, doesn't even take them and when he does he's not hitting.

blame it on the spo for destroying him like that

[gom]

too bad he's more like catch and pump fake and pass it to the next guy when no one is around you stretch 4

People will laugh, but If Mcbob could just stay healthy and start **** shooting when open (like he did in Charlotte) - he would've been really nice here next to Hassan. For some reason he lost all confidence in his 3 point shot, doesn't even take them and when he does he's not hitting.

blame it on the spo for destroying him like that

I think it's a question of effort. We saw what JRich did, putting in the time to change his game, not leaving until he hit enough 3s to satisfy the coach. I doubt if McRoberts made the same commitment.