The Official Lin Net Thread

[Prokorov]

I'd be much happier if they kept the focus on Atkinson/Marks. Their vision for the team. And the story of this young, rebuilding team trying to come together led by one of the League's best player development coaches . That to me is the real story

Not possible. No team advertise GMs and coaches unless it's guys like Larry Legend.

Lin's gonna be the story, like it or not. (unless there's gonna be a major move)

Does featuring Marks and Atkinson count? I just saw this email from nets.

Subject: "Join Us for the Brooklyn Nets Open House featuring Sean Marks and Kenny Atkinson".

Dear xxxx,

Please join us for a Brooklyn Nets Open House on Wednesday, July 20th at Barclays Center.

The Brooklyn Nets Open House will feature a reception in Calvin Klein Courtside Club with complimentary snacks and beverages starting at 6:30PM. The reception will be followed by a discussion with General Manager Sean Marks and Head Coach Kenny Atkinson.

Brooklynnettes dancers and Team Hype will be in attendance. The Brooklyn Nets practice court will also be open for children (must wear sneakers).

Sarah Kustock of YES Network will be the moderator for the evening.

they done this every year with coach and GM. its not marketing them, its a chance for them to give the fans their vision for the season in person.

nets will market Lin hard. him and whitehead are the only marketable guys we have, and Lin will bring in fans.

[Prokorov]

I agree harden is elite in scoring but it's not winning; rockets chemistry was almost broken and the team just entered PO lucky with his all time most TO record in NBA history which also narrow the gap in offense.

He has been to the NBA finals and the Western conference finals twice. id hardly saying he isnt good at winning. His teams have won 54+ games 4 of his 6 seasons in the league.

His turnovers are easily overcome by his elite scoring efficency and volume. among the best in league history. and evidenced by him having a top 10 RAPM/RPM.

Harden even comes out to ask for star players but so far no one comes to rockets. That's all . Harden is better than Lin overall but not that much.

You don't need to convince me or Lin fans how good harden is. Just try to convince oneal not to put harden name in next his "MVP" list

Next season is for Lin to prove he is a good starting pg. even so, it doesn't mean Lin is better than harden.

I dont need to prove harden is light years better then lin. it is a statistical fact.

if you want to argue lin isnt much worse the harden you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with fact.

[bballfan1234]

I agree harden is elite in scoring but it's not winning; rockets chemistry was almost broken and the team just entered PO lucky with his all time most TO record in NBA history which also narrow the gap in offense.

He has been to the NBA finals and the Western conference finals twice. id hardly saying he isnt good at winning. His teams have won 54+ games 4 of his 6 seasons in the league.

His turnovers are easily overcome by his elite scoring efficency and volume. among the best in league history. and evidenced by him having a top 10 RAPM/RPM.

Harden even comes out to ask for star players but so far no one comes to rockets. That's all . Harden is better than Lin overall but not that much.

You don't need to convince me or Lin fans how good harden is. Just try to convince oneal not to put harden name in next his "MVP" list

Next season is for Lin to prove he is a good starting pg. even so, it doesn't mean Lin is better than harden.

I dont need to prove harden is light years better then lin. it is a statistical fact.

if you want to argue lin isnt much worse the harden you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with fact.

Harden is light years better than lin is an exaggeration. Harden is an elite scorer but he is not an elite team player like Lin. He is like a poor man's Kobe. He has all the offensive talent but is not willing to play defense which he is more than capable. When the leader of the team does not trusts his teammates on the offensive end and then expects them to play defense for him. No way the team is going to get near a championship(finals). As for Lin a veteran point guard, he is looking to elevate both the defensive and offensive end of the team's play by being an unselfish pass first point guard and put everything on the line on defense. Playing unselfish will be contagious! Gonna to be fun to watch! Go Nets go!!

[m40]

I agree harden is elite in scoring but it's not winning; rockets chemistry was almost broken and the team just entered PO lucky with his all time most TO record in NBA history which also narrow the gap in offense.

He has been to the NBA finals and the Western conference finals twice. id hardly saying he isnt good at winning. His teams have won 54+ games 4 of his 6 seasons in the league.

His turnovers are easily overcome by his elite scoring efficency and volume. among the best in league history. and evidenced by him having a top 10 RAPM/RPM.

Harden even comes out to ask for star players but so far no one comes to rockets. That's all . Harden is better than Lin overall but not that much.

You don't need to convince me or Lin fans how good harden is. Just try to convince oneal not to put harden name in next his "MVP" list

Next season is for Lin to prove he is a good starting pg. even so, it doesn't mean Lin is better than harden.

I dont need to prove harden is light years better then lin. it is a statistical fact.

if you want to argue lin isnt much worse the harden you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with fact.

Stats-wise Harden looks great, for sure no doubt. But this doesn't mean Harden is a "lightyear" better than Lin.
There are a lot of dirty works/Def/Chemistry-Making that can't be quantified, basketball is a game for a teamwork after all. One interesting stats to look is overall +/-.
If Harden is so good, why his +/- is just a bit lower than Lin?

Here is the winning +/- (per 36min) in last season:
James Harden HOU 1.4
Jeremy Lin CHA 1.5
For this number, Stephen Curry is 13.6 and D.Green is 13.7

[MrDollarBills]

This Harden vs. Lin argument is seriously reaching, its frankly embarrassing to read some of this stuff. Harden is a ball hog and a terrible defender yes but talent wise its not even close, he's a top tier talent who is currently on a hall of fame pace. His PER numbers and True shooting %'s are Elite level regardless of his flaws.

[r0drig0lac]

Harden is harden, Lin is Lin, I am really tired of this stupid comparison.

agree

[gumblin]

omg. comparing harden to lin? some of you Lin fans need to take a chill pill. And I'm one of the Lin fans. At the end of the day, we need to show a little respect to the nets fans here. Because, as Lin fans we aren't "real" fans - just like as a Giants fans, all those Eli Manning fan boys from Ole Miss aren't real Giants fans. I know because I'm a Giants fan.

We're not as bad as Tebow fans, but give it a rest already. It's embarrassing. Let's hope Lin does well this year and let's hope the Nets do also. As a NY/NJ native, I hope doubly so.

I'd also like to point out that there's a difference between Lin haters and Lin Fan haters. As Lin fans if we put a better foot forward, Lin wouldn't be subject to such venom from people. Just like Tebow. If Tebow didn't have all his crazy fans, people wouldn't give him the light of day.

[NyQElm]

Been lurking for the most part over the past few months and didn't dare venture in this Lin post until now. But wow.. this thread... uber-cringeworthy. I actually feel sorry for half of the Lin fans who seem to be more realistic or at the very least waiting until Lin plays at least one game in Nets uniform before making ridiculous comparisons to elite level players.

[m40]

omg. comparing harden to lin? some of you Lin fans need to take a chill pill. And I'm one of the Lin fans. At the end of the day, we need to show a little respect to the nets fans here. Because, as Lin fans we aren't "real" fans - just like as a Giants fans, all those Eli Manning fan boys from Ole Miss aren't real Giants fans. I know because I'm a Giants fan.

We're not as bad as Tebow fans, but give it a rest already. It's embarrassing. Let's hope Lin does well this year and let's hope the Nets do also. As a NY/NJ native, I hope doubly so.

I'd also like to point out that there's a difference between Lin haters and Lin Fan haters. As Lin fans if we put a better foot forward, Lin wouldn't be subject to such venom from people. Just like Tebow. If Tebow didn't have all his crazy fans, people wouldn't give him the light of day.

Actually I really don't know who starts this stupid comparison and what the earth of harden is related to Lin and nets here... If someone really likes harden they should follow rockets page instead of here.

[Prokorov]

Harden is light years better than lin is an exaggeration. Harden is an elite scorer but he is not an elite team player like Lin. He is like a poor man's Kobe. He has all the offensive talent but is not willing to play defense which he is more than capable. When the leader of the team does not trusts his teammates on the offensive end and then expects them to play defense for him. No way the team is going to get near a championship(finals). As for Lin a veteran point guard, he is looking to elevate both the defensive and offensive end of the team's play by being an unselfish pass first point guard and put everything on the line on defense. Playing unselfish will be contagious! Gonna to be fun to watch! Go Nets go!!

its not an exaggeration. by every measure he is leaps and bounds better... whether its offense, playmaking, or impact. again, this isnt my opinion, these are the facts.

by basicall all statistical measures both volume and advanced Harden is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Lin. even if you use Lins PER36 stats:


*** VOLUME STATS ***

Points:
Harden - 29.0
Lin - 16.1

Rebounds:
Harden - 6.1
Lin 3.2

Assists:
Harden - 7.5
Lin - 3.0

Steals:
Harden - 1.7
Lin 1.0

Turnovers:
Harden - 4.6
Lin - 2.6

*** ADVANCED STATS ***

PER:
Harden - 25.3
Lin - 13.8

TS %:
Harden - 59.8
Lin - 53.4

Assist%:
Harden - 35.4%
Lin - 18.6%

Points Per Possession:
Harden: 1.15
Lin: 1.02

eFG%:
Harden - 51.2%
Lin - 46.4%

*** IMPACT STATS ***

RAPM:
Harden - +4.28
Lin - +0.91

RPM:
Harden - +4.39
Lin - (-0.83)

ORPM:
Harden - +5.37
Lin - (-0.65)

DRPM:
Harden - (-0.98)
Lin - (-0.18)

Win Shares:
Harden - 13.3
Lin - 3.5

Defensive Win Shares:
Harden - 2.6
Lin - 2.3


So please, dont give me this anecdotal stuff that lin is anywhere near harden in any aspect. As Shown, with facts (you dont seem to like using those) Harden is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Lin whether you go by raw volume stats, whether you go advanced stats, percentages, and efficiency with normalize volume, and, despite you implying lin having a higher impact on winning, Harden is MUCH better when it comes to impact stats... In fact, it might be the biggest size difference of any area... meaning hardens biggest advantage over lin is his impact on winning....

Harden is 13th in RAPM, Lin is 106th (and a negative RAPM)
Harden is 15th in RPM, Lin is 206th (and a negative RPM)

Harden is top 10 in the NBA in:
Points
PER
WS
TS%
Assist %
Assists
ORPM
eFG%

Lin is top ten in.... nothing. there are only 2 areas where lin isnt worse... Defensive RAPM (where lin is still a negative himself) and Turnovers. Everything else is a landslide for harden.


So please. dont direct your responses to me, its not me you are arguing with, its the facts that you are arguing with.

I have gotten critisim in this thread for lumping all lin fans together. if you are a Lin fan now is a chance to show you are not a riddiculous, unbiased troll fanboy.

It is so riddiculous to compare that if someone started a thread for "lin vs. harden" on the player comparison board they might get perma-banned

[Prokorov]

I'd also like to point out that there's a difference between Lin haters and Lin Fan haters. As Lin fans if we put a better foot forward, Lin wouldn't be subject to such venom from people. Just like Tebow. If Tebow didn't have all his crazy fans, people wouldn't give him the light of day.

this is some spot on, great advice

[MrDollarBills]

Harden is light years better than lin is an exaggeration. Harden is an elite scorer but he is not an elite team player like Lin. He is like a poor man's Kobe. He has all the offensive talent but is not willing to play defense which he is more than capable. When the leader of the team does not trusts his teammates on the offensive end and then expects them to play defense for him. No way the team is going to get near a championship(finals). As for Lin a veteran point guard, he is looking to elevate both the defensive and offensive end of the team's play by being an unselfish pass first point guard and put everything on the line on defense. Playing unselfish will be contagious! Gonna to be fun to watch! Go Nets go!!

its not an exaggeration. by every measure he is leaps and bounds better... whether its offense, playmaking, or impact. again, this isnt my opinion, these are the facts.

by basicall all statistical measures both volume and advanced Harden is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Lin. even if you use Lins PER36 stats:


*** VOLUME STATS ***

Points:
Harden - 29.0
Lin - 16.1

Rebounds:
Harden - 6.1
Lin 3.2

Assists:
Harden - 7.5
Lin - 3.0

Steals:
Harden - 1.7
Lin 1.0

Turnovers:
Harden - 4.6
Lin - 2.6

*** ADVANCED STATS ***

PER:
Harden - 25.3
Lin - 13.8

TS %:
Harden - 59.8
Lin - 53.4

Assist%:
Harden - 35.4%
Lin - 18.6%

Points Per Possession:
Harden: 1.15
Lin: 1.02

eFG%:
Harden - 51.2%
Lin - 46.4%

*** IMPACT STATS ***

RAPM:
Harden - +4.28
Lin - (-0.91)

RPM:
Harden - +4.39
Lin - (-0.83)

ORPM:
Harden - +5.37
Lin - (-0.65)

DRPM:
Harden - (-0.98)
Lin - (-0.18)

Win Shares:
Harden - 13.3
Lin - 3.5

Defensive Win Shares:
Harden - 2.6
Lin - 2.3


So please, dont give me this anecdotal stuff that lin is anywhere near harden in any aspect. As Shown, with facts (you dont seem to like using those) Harden is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Lin whether you go by raw volume stats, whether you go advanced stats, percentages, and efficiency with normalize volume, and, despite you implying lin having a higher impact on winning, Harden is MUCH better when it comes to impact stats... In fact, it might be the biggest size difference of any area... meaning hardens biggest advantage over lin is his impact on winning....

Harden is 13th in RAPM, Lin is 106th (and a negative RAPM)
Harden is 15th in RPM, Lin is 206th (and a negative RPM)

Harden is top 10 in the NBA in:
Points
PER
WS
TS%
Assist %
Assists
ORPM
eFG%

Lin is top ten in.... nothing. there are only 2 areas where lin isnt worse... Defensive RAPM (where lin is still a negative himself) and Turnovers. Everything else is a landslide for harden.


So please. dont direct your responses to me, its not me you are arguing with, its the facts that you are arguing with.

I have gotten critisim in this thread for lumping all lin fans together. if you are a Lin fan now is a chance to show you are not a riddiculous, unbiased troll fanboy.

It is so riddiculous to compare that if someone started a thread for "lin vs. harden" on the player comparison board they might get perma-banned

Can you link me to where you got Lin's RAPM stats? I just checked "the spreadsheet" and Lin shows positive across the board in multi year and in single year he was only a negative on ORAPM (-0.76)

[m40]

Just so funny that this thread starts to become a harden thread

[m40]

Harden is light years better than lin is an exaggeration. Harden is an elite scorer but he is not an elite team player like Lin. He is like a poor man's Kobe. He has all the offensive talent but is not willing to play defense which he is more than capable. When the leader of the team does not trusts his teammates on the offensive end and then expects them to play defense for him. No way the team is going to get near a championship(finals). As for Lin a veteran point guard, he is looking to elevate both the defensive and offensive end of the team's play by being an unselfish pass first point guard and put everything on the line on defense. Playing unselfish will be contagious! Gonna to be fun to watch! Go Nets go!!

its not an exaggeration. by every measure he is leaps and bounds better... whether its offense, playmaking, or impact. again, this isnt my opinion, these are the facts.

by basicall all statistical measures both volume and advanced Harden is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Lin. even if you use Lins PER36 stats:


*** VOLUME STATS ***

Points:
Harden - 29.0
Lin - 16.1

Rebounds:
Harden - 6.1
Lin 3.2

Assists:
Harden - 7.5
Lin - 3.0

Steals:
Harden - 1.7
Lin 1.0

Turnovers:
Harden - 4.6
Lin - 2.6

*** ADVANCED STATS ***

PER:
Harden - 25.3
Lin - 13.8

TS %:
Harden - 59.8
Lin - 53.4

Assist%:
Harden - 35.4%
Lin - 18.6%

Points Per Possession:
Harden: 1.15
Lin: 1.02

eFG%:
Harden - 51.2%
Lin - 46.4%

*** IMPACT STATS ***

RAPM:
Harden - +4.28
Lin - (-0.91)

RPM:
Harden - +4.39
Lin - (-0.83)

ORPM:
Harden - +5.37
Lin - (-0.65)

DRPM:
Harden - (-0.98)
Lin - (-0.18)

Win Shares:
Harden - 13.3
Lin - 3.5

Defensive Win Shares:
Harden - 2.6
Lin - 2.3


So please, dont give me this anecdotal stuff that lin is anywhere near harden in any aspect. As Shown, with facts (you dont seem to like using those) Harden is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Lin whether you go by raw volume stats, whether you go advanced stats, percentages, and efficiency with normalize volume, and, despite you implying lin having a higher impact on winning, Harden is MUCH better when it comes to impact stats... In fact, it might be the biggest size difference of any area... meaning hardens biggest advantage over lin is his impact on winning....

Harden is 13th in RAPM, Lin is 106th (and a negative RAPM)
Harden is 15th in RPM, Lin is 206th (and a negative RPM)

Harden is top 10 in the NBA in:
Points
PER
WS
TS%
Assist %
Assists
ORPM
eFG%

Lin is top ten in.... nothing. there are only 2 areas where lin isnt worse... Defensive RAPM (where lin is still a negative himself) and Turnovers. Everything else is a landslide for harden.


So please. dont direct your responses to me, its not me you are arguing with, its the facts that you are arguing with.

I have gotten critisim in this thread for lumping all lin fans together. if you are a Lin fan now is a chance to show you are not a riddiculous, unbiased troll fanboy.

It is so riddiculous to compare that if someone started a thread for "lin vs. harden" on the player comparison board they might get perma-banned

If you really in love of harden please kindly go to rockets forum and express your supports.
Those stats are again meaningless to nets and Lin. Harden holds the ball all the time to play as SG and PG. he only needs someone for his rebounds and makes Howard leaving the team is the best proof of his "achievement". He only built his stats and the team was performing much worse than hornets last year. (Do you want to say because walker > harden?) Why don't use Stephen curry to compare with harden? He fights for mvp and Lin only fights for starting position.

For chemistry and team building and rebuilding a young team, sorry, Lin is better than harden. That's all.

[Lorenzomax7]

Even Lin himself admitted that "Harden is a much better player (than me)."

Just stop these non-senses of Lin being better than Harden. It's becoming a joke man.

[cn0gd]

gee, gotta skip all those text walls about Lin vs Harden. beating a dead horse is not fit to describe it already, gotta replace it with a mammoth fossil.

they had different position different roll in the team all along, how can you compare? coming season they may have similar roll, then we will see. if you want to find out who is better so badly, wait for them match up head to head, like Yao vs Shaq long time ago. stats will always tell only part of the story, worst part, part of story A mix with part of story B, maybe more, the other guy can always argue the rest of story missed by stats, if both side try to convince the other side, it will never end. stats certainly can help, just dont solely rely on it. just remember every professional basketball coach watch tapes.

IMO video analysis +some stats is much more enjoyable and easier for everyone to understand what happens, anyone?

[cn0gd]

Marked again since the original post has been locked.

ha this is interesting. worth marking

How about posting here for more then two weeks before you start trying to call regular Net fans out? If Lin flames out or gets hurt I doubt most of the people posting in here will still be on our site since most of you recently changed your logo's from the Hornets to the Nets.

he only invite a bet with a single guy? how come it become call (all? most?)regular Net fans out?

[gumblin]

omg. comparing harden to lin? some of you Lin fans need to take a chill pill. And I'm one of the Lin fans. At the end of the day, we need to show a little respect to the nets fans here. Because, as Lin fans we aren't "real" fans - just like as a Giants fans, all those Eli Manning fan boys from Ole Miss aren't real Giants fans. I know because I'm a Giants fan.

We're not as bad as Tebow fans, but give it a rest already. It's embarrassing. Let's hope Lin does well this year and let's hope the Nets do also. As a NY/NJ native, I hope doubly so.

I'd also like to point out that there's a difference between Lin haters and Lin Fan haters. As Lin fans if we put a better foot forward, Lin wouldn't be subject to such venom from people. Just like Tebow. If Tebow didn't have all his crazy fans, people wouldn't give him the light of day.

Actually I really don't know who starts this stupid comparison and what the earth of harden is related to Lin and nets here... If someone really likes harden they should follow rockets page instead of here.

Not sure what you mean, but some Lin fans will bash whoever is taking playing time away from Lin or impacting him in some way. Beverly,Harden, Kemba, etc. People love playing with stats, but people will still cherry pick until they find something that will serve their purpose. Then come the slew of excuses - bad system, bad coaching, never got the chance, etc. While legit reasons, you can apply them to almost every NBA player.

it's time for Lin fans to man/woman up and accept him for who he is. cheer for him all you want, but enough is enough.

[postcall]

Nobody said they think Lin is better than Harden the topic was if he is better than Jarret Jack. It got derailed. I believe that he might be but I understand if people view Jack as the superior player. I mostly watched him on golden state and saw lots of potential in him.

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[gafun]

omg. comparing harden to lin? some of you Lin fans need to take a chill pill. And I'm one of the Lin fans. At the end of the day, we need to show a little respect to the nets fans here. Because, as Lin fans we aren't "real" fans - just like as a Giants fans, all those Eli Manning fan boys from Ole Miss aren't real Giants fans. I know because I'm a Giants fan.

We're not as bad as Tebow fans, but give it a rest already. It's embarrassing. Let's hope Lin does well this year and let's hope the Nets do also. As a NY/NJ native, I hope doubly so.

I'd also like to point out that there's a difference between Lin haters and Lin Fan haters. As Lin fans if we put a better foot forward, Lin wouldn't be subject to such venom from people. Just like Tebow. If Tebow didn't have all his crazy fans, people wouldn't give him the light of day.

Actually I really don't know who starts this stupid comparison and what the earth of harden is related to Lin and nets here... If someone really likes harden they should follow rockets page instead of here.

Not sure what you mean, but some Lin fans will bash whoever is taking playing time away from Lin or impacting him in some way. Beverly,Harden, Kemba, etc. People love playing with stats, but people will still cherry pick until they find something that will serve their purpose. Then come the slew of excuses - bad system, bad coaching, never got the chance, etc. While legit reasons, you can apply them to almost every NBA player.

it's time for Lin fans to man/woman up and accept him for who he is. cheer for him all you want, but enough is enough.

It was good you started with some Lin fans. For some Lin fans including me, we know Lin played much better as starting PG which is fact, although it is based on small sample. He did not played much true PG in any team since he played for Knicks. As starting pg, we hope he can play his best and help Nets to improve or better, win more.