A lot of Celtics Trash rumors part 3

[Andrew McCeltic]

I think it's pretty easy to understand why people are hesitant about giving up the Brooklyn picks. We probably never win a title with Blake/Russ, and we'd be giving up on a golden opportunity to build a great young core for the future. Not rocket science. Westbrook/Blake's window coincides with the Cavs (who have a potential top 5 GOAT) and the Warriors (who have 2 players better than both Westbrook and Blake, and a better supporting cast).

We could win, we'll be better.. But 48 wins to 60 is an easier leap than the one to all-cylinders favorite.

BKN picks aren't just about the players we'd take but the trade flexibility. Depending on deal, we could be "capped out" talent/improvement-wise, same way the Clippers are now.

Who else are we gonna use those picks for with trade flexibility? Cousins maybe, that's it.

Get Blake, take a deep breath.. Win 55-57 from that alone. Then as far as non-Westbrook options for which you'd want trade flexibility, there's Jimmy Butler. Denver has pieces that could put us over the top Pistons style- Harden could go 60-0 fast and ask out of Houston. DAR is about to blow up in LA and could change what they're trying to do. Milwaukee has Middleton and MCW, who wouldn't take BKN picks. Anthony Davis, Carmelo, Philly pieces with upside, Utah has Hayward, Exum..

Not saying that in the simple terms of "Trade for Hayward instead of Westbrook", which is a bad idea. The point is there will be other guys on the market, the market will shift after we get Blake, teams and players and agents will take stock of their options. Want to be well-positioned in that market too to set us up for the long term.

But it's hard to get stars, I understand moving on both now and figuring out the rest later.

IT/Smart/Rozier/Jackson
Bradley/Jaylen/Hunter
Crowder/Jerebko/Young/Nader
Griffin/Mickey/Yabusele
Horford/Olynyk/(Zizic)

Plus BKN '17. Wins 55, tons of trade options, but no guarantees.

Vs

IT/Rozier/Jackson
Westbrook/Bradley
Crowder/Nader
Griffin/Yabu
Horford/Olynyk/(Zizic)

No extra 1sts, interested vets to fill out the bench (Bass, Perkins, etc.). Win 60 and contend immediately.

To me it's not an easy call. It's going to be Westbrook we get, so I hope at least we can keep Jaylen and deal Rozier for Noel or Okafor.

[Smitty731]

Based on Smittys sources, quick math.

Horford - 26540100
Blake - 23161965
Westbrook - 17769374
Thomas - 6587132
Bradley - 8269663
Crowder - 6286408
Olynyk - 3094013
Rozier - 1906440
Brown - 4743000
Pierce - 3527920
Placehold - 543471
Placehold - 543471

Total - 98230317

Now correct me if i'm wrong, the cap is 94,143,000 and we will exceed the cap. Browns hold is 3592500 and if he signs to 120% of the rookie scale it goes up to 4.74 million. Can we exceed the cap post trade if we got under it to sign Horford ? If we stayed under the luxury tax ? CBA people here ?

Also like to add, this is after renouncing Datomes hold, and stashing Yabusele, Zizic overseas etc..

Plus Smitty you did say Amir, Zeller (s/t), BKN pick plus one other first "and/or" Brown ? So I held onto Brown.

As far as OKC, I didn't get a repky from you if it's a 3 team trade or 2 seperate deals, so we trade Hunter, Mickey, Young, Jerebko, Smart to OKC.

No idea how they would ultimately structure things. My guess is two separate trades, but way too early for those type of details.

[Smitty731]

both brooklyn picks and half of the team for griffin and westbrook without any guarantees? well that reminds me of, wait... brooklyn nets? billy king?

Except these two players are in their primes and you already have a better team in place for them to join.

But other than that, it is exactly the same.

[VeryMuchWoke]

Adam Silver doesn't like super teams, but the majority of owners don't really care. A vast majority of owners.

Fair enough, but they may change their minds if Golden State goes 78-4 and/or sweeps the playoffs and ratings suffer.

[OFWGKTA]

Kyrie plays well in a few finals games now he's a superstar weird

Well for one, he played well all Playoffs. Two, he's already had 2-3 great seasons previous to this one (where he was injured for half the year). Kyrie is quite easily a superstar. Denying this is just being a homer.

Nah he's not a superstar

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Man, I want to believe, but doesn't OKC have close to a full roster? Presti would have some work cut out for him to get it down to 15 guys. I don't think OKC's owner would be willing to eat a bunch of contracts in the case that Presti can't trade all of them.

However, a roster of like this.......

Westbrook/IT
Bradley/Rozier
Crowder/Pierce
Griffin/Bass (assuming he's the ex-Celtic)
Horford/Olynyk

That is a lot of ammunition to provide coach Stevens.

Also, in terms of remaining FAs of ex-Celtics, these guys are also available: Jason Terry, Kendrick Perkins, Joel Anthony and David Lee (lol)

[Fencer reregistered]

The basic idea seems to be to send out 3 lottery picks (Brown, Smart, and a Brooklyn pick) plus a bunch of minor assets, and bring back Griffin and Westbrook. That makes a lot of sense if we can get past the rental fears, although there's still the issue of having the Clippers be good while CP3 is still under contract, and there's also still the issue of Blake's health.

However, it's crazy if the rental issues remain large.

[Bar Fight]

Kyrie plays well in a few finals games now he's a superstar weird

Well for one, he played well all Playoffs. Two, he's already had 2-3 great seasons previous to this one (where he was injured for half the year). Kyrie is quite easily a superstar. Denying this is just being a homer.

Nah he's not a superstar

Yup, uh huh. But if the Celtics were linked to a possible trade for Kyrie tomorrow you'd change your tune.

[Bar Fight]

both brooklyn picks and half of the team for griffin and westbrook without any guarantees? well that reminds me of, wait... brooklyn nets? billy king?

Except these two players are in their primes and you already have a better team in place for them to join.

But other than that, it is exactly the same.

And that's not gonna matter when they don't bring a title and we're in the same position as the Nets (watching other teams reap the rewards of our draft picks).

[OFWGKTA]

Well for one, he played well all Playoffs. Two, he's already had 2-3 great seasons previous to this one (where he was injured for half the year). Kyrie is quite easily a superstar. Denying this is just being a homer.

Nah he's not a superstar

Yup, uh huh. But if the Celtics were linked to a possible trade for Kyrie tomorrow you'd change your tune.

No I wouldn't

[MaxwellSmart]

Trade those Picks....I doubt Brooklyn is gonna be as bad as everyone thinks--Plus, Danny will just draft the wrong guys anyway---Get some Studs in here NOW-!

[Smitty731]

Adam Silver doesn't like super teams, but the majority of owners don't really care. A vast majority of owners.

Fair enough, but they may change their minds if Golden State goes 78-4 and/or sweeps the playoffs and ratings suffer.

They won't. I'd be surprised if they won more games than last year to be honest. They won't push nearly as hard. And they are going to get everyone's best shot right out of the gate this year.

[Smitty731]

Trade those Picks....I doubt Brooklyn is gonna be as bad as everyone thinks--Plus, Danny will just draft the wrong guys anyway---Get some Studs in here NOW-!

My personal opinion is that they will be terrible in 2017, but not sure about 2018. But talking to their people, they like the moves they have made for this year. They think they'll be much better than people think.

[TheMartian]

I am literally blown away that people wouldn't trade two unknown picks for two top 10 guys in the league. That is borderline insane to me. I can't understand that mindset at all.

Also, FWIW, the Celtics owners have indicated they will pay the tax without an issue to build and keep a title contender together and to add to it. That isn't news. That is publicly reported, but some people are ignoring.

I think the reluctance to trade the BKN picks comes from the uncertainty of both Westbrook and Griffin re-signing with us long-term. If what you say that Danny is willing to let go of the picks even for just one year rentals of both star players is true, then no thanks. Especially if Crowder/Smart/Brown are also included. There is no guarantee that Westbrook and Griffin with IT and Horford will win the championship or even make the finals. If the experiment fails, and both RW and BG bolt after a year, then what?

[VeryMuchWoke]

Adam Silver doesn't like super teams, but the majority of owners don't really care. A vast majority of owners.

Fair enough, but they may change their minds if Golden State goes 78-4 and/or sweeps the playoffs and ratings suffer.

They won't. I'd be surprised if they won more games than last year to be honest. They won't push nearly as hard. And they are going to get everyone's best shot right out of the gate this year.

I agree, but it's fairly likely they wont be challenged at all in the playoffs (including the finals). The obvious champion coasting to 68+ wins isn't exactly exciting either.

[Smitty731]

I am literally blown away that people wouldn't trade two unknown picks for two top 10 guys in the league. That is borderline insane to me. I can't understand that mindset at all.

Also, FWIW, the Celtics owners have indicated they will pay the tax without an issue to build and keep a title contender together and to add to it. That isn't news. That is publicly reported, but some people are ignoring.

I think the reluctance to trade the BKN picks comes from the uncertainty of both Westbrook and Griffin re-signing with us long-term. If what you say that Danny is willing to let go of the picks even for just one year rentals of both star players is true, then no thanks. Especially if Crowder/Smart/Brown are also included. There is no guarantee that Westbrook and Griffin with IT and Horford will win the championship or even make the finals. If the experiment fails, and both RW and BG bolt after a year, then what?

Just my opinion, but the goal would be to get them here and sell them on staying while they are here. And the Celtics would have the ability to pay them a significant amount more than anyone else as well.

[KDTOBEANTOWN]

Westbrook and Griffin? No way in hell does this happen.

Doc isin't even in LA.

[Smitty731]

Fair enough, but they may change their minds if Golden State goes 78-4 and/or sweeps the playoffs and ratings suffer.

They won't. I'd be surprised if they won more games than last year to be honest. They won't push nearly as hard. And they are going to get everyone's best shot right out of the gate this year.

I agree, but it's fairly likely they wont be challenged at all in the playoffs (including the finals). The obvious champion coasting to 68+ wins isn't exactly exciting either.

You are severely underrating how much people will watch Golden State this year. The NBA already said they will be on national TV the maximum allowable amount of times this year.

People watch to root for or against them. But they will watch. The league isn't nearly as upset by this as people are making it out to be. Or even as much as some of their people are pretending they are.

[Froob]

Anybody hearing anything around the league about LeBron? Must be holding out for his boy JR Smith. Man does he have Cleveland by the balls, it's pretty pathetic. Not sure there's a better guy to be friends with as a role player. Whole Cavs teams outta be hiring Rich Paul.

[mademan]

I am literally blown away that people wouldn't trade two unknown picks for two top 10 guys in the league. That is borderline insane to me. I can't understand that mindset at all.

Also, FWIW, the Celtics owners have indicated they will pay the tax without an issue to build and keep a title contender together and to add to it. That isn't news. That is publicly reported, but some people are ignoring.

I think the reluctance to trade the BKN picks comes from the uncertainty of both Westbrook and Griffin re-signing with us long-term. If what you say that Danny is willing to let go of the picks even for just one year rentals of both star players is true, then no thanks. Especially if Crowder/Smart/Brown are also included. There is no guarantee that Westbrook and Griffin with IT and Horford will win the championship or even make the finals. If the experiment fails, and both RW and BG bolt after a year, then what?

Just my opinion, but the goal would be to get them here and sell them on staying while they are here. And the Celtics would have the ability to pay them a significant amount more than anyone else as well.

Ya, bird rights means a lot. Griffin/Westbrook being guaranteed 35 mill in the last year of their contracts when their 32/33 years old is pretty big. For guys that depend on athleticism and have had injury concerns over the last couple years, this is significant