The Official Lin Net Thread

[Prokorov]

There's no law that says RHJ has to cover the corner man; even Bog can do that.

You are missing the point entirely. unless RHJ is going to gaurd the Center, he is little help to lopez in the 1-5 pick and roll. either your center can gaurd pick and rolls, or he cant and your defense is forced to leave guys open from three. and lopez doesnt defend it will. and as no suprised we have been bottom 5 in 3 point defense the past 5 seasons, except for 1, the year he missed the season and KG played center.

I also notice that you slyly avoided mentioning Lin when you disputed that Brook > Tyson on offense. (I was saying that Brook+Lin >>> Tyson+Lin.) I know that you think Lin isn't worth a hunk of moldy bread, but the rest of the NBA strongly disagrees with you, if we can judge by the desperate defense they put on him whenever he was on the floor. Ask Tim Duncan and the Spurs (whom Lin has wrecked repeatedly) whether they think Jeremy is a significant factor.

Why would i mention Lin? Lin is a constant. Lin/Chandler and Lin/Lopez you have Lin either way. the point is that Lin and the knicks version of prime chandler is probably not far off Lin + brook, and certainly the Lin+chandler pick and roll will have been better then the Lin + brook pick and roll/pick and push, since chandler (or at least that knicks version of chandler) is a far superior pick and roll player to lopex

I think the Nets' offense and defense will be much improved next year, mostly due to Lin, and there is reason to be optimistic for the season.

EDIT: fixed spelling of "Tyson".

his impact on the offense should certainly help. his impact on defense wont. as point gaurd defense is the least valuable position(not my opinion, the opinion of the advanced analytics guys and proven statistically). Lin could be first team all NBA defense and it wont have a huge impact if bogs/lopez play as bad as they did last year. which is likely since thats how they have both played their entire careers.

i can see us becoming an average offense. defensively we might improve... but going from 2nd worst to like, 5th or 6th worst wont matter much.

[Manitoba]

I think the Nets' offense and defense will be much improved next year, mostly due to Lin, and there is reason to be optimistic for the season.
EDIT: fixed spelling of "Tyson".

.

I wouldn't say Nets defense will be much improved due to Lin unless you tell me that the only defense issue Nets had last year was on the PG position. Lin did great on defense in many games last year. But it came with the prices with lowering his offense efficiency because he kept trying to defend multiple positions. It was not his fault because the coach used him more for covering Kamba's weak defense. I think Atkinson will make him focus more on offense and create scoring opportunities for others, guard his own man and do not overplay on the defense.

The D doesn't have to be perfect in order to be much improved. Sometimes stabilizing just one position can work wonders.

[Prokorov]

I think the Nets' offense and defense will be much improved next year, mostly due to Lin, and there is reason to be optimistic for the season.
EDIT: fixed spelling of "Tyson".

.

I wouldn't say Nets defense will be much improved due to Lin unless you tell me that the only defense issue Nets had last year was on the PG position. Lin did great on defense in many games last year. But it came with the prices with lowering his offense efficiency because he kept trying to defend multiple positions. It was not his fault because the coach used him more for covering Kamba's weak defense. I think Atkinson will make him focus more on offense and create scoring opportunities for others, guard his own man and do not overplay on the defense.

The D doesn't have to be perfect in order to be much improved. Sometimes stabilizing just one position can work wonders.

unfortunetly we arent stabalizing the 2 most imporant defensive positions:

Wing
Center/Anchor

this team will be one of the 5 or 6 worst defensively again.

[hood30]

There's no law that says RHJ has to cover the corner man; even Bog can do that.

You are missing the point entirely. unless RHJ is going to gaurd the Center, he is little help to lopez in the 1-5 pick and roll. either your center can gaurd pick and rolls, or he cant and your defense is forced to leave guys open from three. and lopez doesnt defend it will. and as no suprised we have been bottom 5 in 3 point defense the past 5 seasons, except for 1, the year he missed the season and KG played center.

I also notice that you slyly avoided mentioning Lin when you disputed that Brook > Tyson on offense. (I was saying that Brook+Lin >>> Tyson+Lin.) I know that you think Lin isn't worth a hunk of moldy bread, but the rest of the NBA strongly disagrees with you, if we can judge by the desperate defense they put on him whenever he was on the floor. Ask Tim Duncan and the Spurs (whom Lin has wrecked repeatedly) whether they think Jeremy is a significant factor.

Why would i mention Lin? Lin is a constant. Lin/Chandler and Lin/Lopez you have Lin either way. the point is that Lin and the knicks version of prime chandler is probably not far off Lin + brook, and certainly the Lin+chandler pick and roll will have been better then the Lin + brook pick and roll/pick and push, since chandler (or at least that knicks version of chandler) is a far superior pick and roll player to lopex

I think the Nets' offense and defense will be much improved next year, mostly due to Lin, and there is reason to be optimistic for the season.

EDIT: fixed spelling of "Tyson".

his impact on the offense should certainly help. his impact on defense wont. as point gaurd defense is the least valuable position(not my opinion, the opinion of the advanced analytics guys and proven statistically). Lin could be first team all NBA defense and it wont have a huge impact if bogs/lopez play as bad as they did last year. which is likely since thats how they have both played their entire careers.

i can see us becoming an average offense. defensively we might improve... but going from 2nd worst to like, 5th or 6th worst wont matter much.

I believe a Lin/Lopez PnR has the potential to be better than the Lin/Chandler simply because Lopez can score in a broader variety of position on the field...while Chandler is very limited offensively on how he can score.

Chandler is not that good if he catches the ball 10 feet out...Lopez, on the other hand, can be effective even that far out....If Lin and Lopez can mesh on the Pnr, I can really see them being more devastating than the Lin/Chandler PnR

Offensively, Lopez is vastly more skillfull than Chandler...So much so that Chandler advantage on the defensive end is not enough to over-take what Brooks bring on the offensive side of the ball.

Defensively, Chandler is better than Lopez, but it's not by a huge gape...While blocking does not say the entire story for a center, Lopez did average 1.7 block per game..so at least, he can be counted to do some decent rim-protection.

So Lopez was in top 5 "among Center" in block shot per game...Not bad..He's not chandler but adequate enough as a defensive Center.

[Prokorov]

Offensively, Lopez is vastly more skillfull than Chandler...So much so that Chandler advantage on the defensive end is not enough to over-take what Brooks bring on the offensive side of the ball.

Defensively, Chandler is better than Lopez, but it's not by a huge gape...While blocking does not say the entire story for a center, Lopez did average 1.7 block per game..so at least, he can be counted to do some decent rim-protection.

So Lopez was in top 5 "among Center" in block shot per game...Not bad..He's not chandler but adequate enough as a defensive Center.

chandler was defensive player of the year. nothing lopez does on offense is bridging that gap. lopez is not a good defender. dont confuse blocking shots with good defense or rim protection. lopez cant defend in a team concept. he cant defend the pick and roll. he cant switch off bigs. he is super slow to react

[hood30]

Offensively, Lopez is vastly more skillfull than Chandler...So much so that Chandler advantage on the defensive end is not enough to over-take what Brooks bring on the offensive side of the ball.

Defensively, Chandler is better than Lopez, but it's not by a huge gape...While blocking does not say the entire story for a center, Lopez did average 1.7 block per game..so at least, he can be counted to do some decent rim-protection.

So Lopez was in top 5 "among Center" in block shot per game...Not bad..He's not chandler but adequate enough as a defensive Center.

chandler was defensive player of the year. nothing lopez does on offense is bridging that gap. lopez is not a good defender. dont confuse blocking shots with good defense or rim protection. lopez cant defend in a team concept. he cant defend the pick and roll. he cant switch off bigs. he is super slow to react

I think Lopez can take his offensive game to another level with a PG that has a better feel of the PnR...The PnR is Lin's strengh, so we will see whether Lopez gets better next year.

Just like Chandler is clearly a better defensive player than Lopez...Lopez, is by far, the superior offensive threat, and it's not close...Chandler can't shoot 10-15 foot jump shot..He's almost useless unless he's 5-9 feet from the basket...Lopez is great among center even further than that.

I have a feeling Lin/Lopez partnership will be better than Lin/Chandler.

Chandler, also benefited from Lin's Pnr...Before Lin got introduce to the Line-up, Chandler wasn't doing that well offensively..He was good, but when Lin came in, he exploded.....

So, some Lin fan feel that Lin could extend's Lopez scoring threat to a point where the gap would close in compare to Lin/Chandler.

IMO, a center getting you 1.7 block per game is still impressive...I understand he may not be great in the other aspect, but I like the 1.7 stats.

The only stats that's concerning about Lopez is his 7.8 rebound per game...That's a bit too low for a long guy like him...Lopez shold be grabbing 10 board per game.

[m40]

.

I wouldn't say Nets defense will be much improved due to Lin unless you tell me that the only defense issue Nets had last year was on the PG position. Lin did great on defense in many games last year. But it came with the prices with lowering his offense efficiency because he kept trying to defend multiple positions. It was not his fault because the coach used him more for covering Kamba's weak defense. I think Atkinson will make him focus more on offense and create scoring opportunities for others, guard his own man and do not overplay on the defense.

The D doesn't have to be perfect in order to be much improved. Sometimes stabilizing just one position can work wonders.

unfortunetly we arent stabalizing the 2 most imporant defensive positions:

Wing
Center/Anchor

this team will be one of the 5 or 6 worst defensively again.

It seems the rosters are fixed for this season as not much talent willing to join Nets. Those "weak" wings right now needs to train up themselves anyway. (not just for def but off as well).
Nets need to build up at least 30 wins in 2017 so that attracts more talents coming next year from FAs.

[Manitoba]

You are missing the point entirely. unless RHJ is going to gaurd the Center, he is little help to lopez in the 1-5 pick and roll. either your center can gaurd pick and rolls, or he cant and your defense is forced to leave guys open from three. and lopez doesnt defend it will. and as no suprised we have been bottom 5 in 3 point defense the past 5 seasons, except for 1, the year he missed the season and KG played center.

You are missing my point entirely. Unless RHJ is stuck on the corner man, he can help defend the PnR, even the 1-5. Very few centers can score reliably from the perimeter, so Brook can wait until the other 5 actually gets the ball before showing. Very few centers can pass like Brook or Noah, so RHJ has time to recover to his man. Result: our defense will improve quite a bit even though only the 1 will be better.

Why would i mention Lin? Lin is a constant. Lin/Chandler and Lin/Lopez you have Lin either way. the point is that Lin and the knicks version of prime chandler is probably not far off Lin + brook, and certainly the Lin+chandler pick and roll will have been better then the Lin + brook pick and roll/pick and push, since chandler (or at least that knicks version of chandler) is a far superior pick and roll player to lopex

Unforunately for you, the game of basketball is not an algebra; there are ways for Brook and Lin together to be better than the sum of the two alone. The word you need is "synergy". So I stand by my statement that it's quite possible for Brook+Lin to be much better offensively than Tyson+Lin.

[Lin's] impact on the offense should certainly help. his impact on defense wont. as point gaurd defense is the least valuable position(not my opinion, the opinion of the advanced analytics guys and proven statistically). Lin could be first team all NBA defense and it wont have a huge impact if bogs/lopez play as bad as they did last year. which is likely since thats how they have both played their entire careers.

But removing the hole at 1 will give Brook less to worry about, so his D should improve too. The overall effect will be much stronger than you think. There are reasons for optimism.

EDIT: added [Lin's].

[Manitoba]

.

I wouldn't say Nets defense will be much improved due to Lin unless you tell me that the only defense issue Nets had last year was on the PG position. Lin did great on defense in many games last year. But it came with the prices with lowering his offense efficiency because he kept trying to defend multiple positions. It was not his fault because the coach used him more for covering Kamba's weak defense. I think Atkinson will make him focus more on offense and create scoring opportunities for others, guard his own man and do not overplay on the defense.

The D doesn't have to be perfect in order to be much improved. Sometimes stabilizing just one position can work wonders.

unfortunetly we arent stabalizing the 2 most imporant defensive positions:

Wing
Center/Anchor

this team will be one of the 5 or 6 worst defensively again.

We aren't improving all five positions defensively, but just by stabilizing the 1 the team should improve quite a bit overall on D.

[Paradise]

RHJ missed 50 games. Let's keep that in mind when making these comparisons because he can anchor a defense.

His defensive rating of 100.2 is behind only two other rookies who average at least 20 minutes per game. Defensive rating is a measure of the estimated points an opposing team scores when the player is on the floor. His defensive box plus-minus of 3.0 would be good for 11th in the entire NBA if he had played enough games.

What’s even more impressive about Hollis-Jefferson’s defensive stats is that being on a terrible basketball team employing infamous defensive sieves Shane Larkin, Bojan Bogdanovic, and Brook Lopez as starters deflates his numbers. If you put Hollis-Jefferson on the Heat, his numbers would rise even more. His defensive rebounding percentage of 21.7% is second for all rookies, ahead of renowned big men such as Kristaps Porzingis and Myles Turner.


Brooklyn has a net rating of -6.7 when Hollis-Jefferson is off the court, meaning the Nets are outscored by 6.7 points per 100 possessions when he sits. That number drops all the way down to -2.2 when Hollis-Jefferson is on the court. His contribution of 4.5 points easily blows away the rookie wing competition (with the exception of Winslow), illustrating that, despite his clear and obvious shortcomings, Hollis-Jefferson finds plenty of ways to contribute to the Nets.

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2016/3/28/the-best-nba-rookie-wing-is-rondae-hollis-jefferson

[Manitoba]

RHJ missed 50 games. Let's keep that in mind when making these comparisons because he can anchor a defense.

His defensive rating of 100.2 is behind only two other rookies who average at least 20 minutes per game. Defensive rating is a measure of the estimated points an opposing team scores when the player is on the floor. His defensive box plus-minus of 3.0 would be good for 11th in the entire NBA if he had played enough games.

What’s even more impressive about Hollis-Jefferson’s defensive stats is that being on a terrible basketball team employing infamous defensive sieves Shane Larkin, Bojan Bogdanovic, and Brook Lopez as starters deflates his numbers. If you put Hollis-Jefferson on the Heat, his numbers would rise even more. His defensive rebounding percentage of 21.7% is second for all rookies, ahead of renowned big men such as Kristaps Porzingis and Myles Turner.


Brooklyn has a net rating of -6.7 when Hollis-Jefferson is off the court, meaning the Nets are outscored by 6.7 points per 100 possessions when he sits. That number drops all the way down to -2.2 when Hollis-Jefferson is on the court. His contribution of 4.5 points easily blows away the rookie wing competition (with the exception of Winslow), illustrating that, despite his clear and obvious shortcomings, Hollis-Jefferson finds plenty of ways to contribute to the Nets.

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2016/3/28/the-best-nba-rookie-wing-is-rondae-hollis-jefferson

Good point. I hope RHJ stays healthy next season; we will need him.

[cn0gd]

RHJ missed 50 games. Let's keep that in mind when making these comparisons because he can anchor a defense.

His defensive rating of 100.2 is behind only two other rookies who average at least 20 minutes per game. Defensive rating is a measure of the estimated points an opposing team scores when the player is on the floor. His defensive box plus-minus of 3.0 would be good for 11th in the entire NBA if he had played enough games.

What’s even more impressive about Hollis-Jefferson’s defensive stats is that being on a terrible basketball team employing infamous defensive sieves Shane Larkin, Bojan Bogdanovic, and Brook Lopez as starters deflates his numbers. If you put Hollis-Jefferson on the Heat, his numbers would rise even more. His defensive rebounding percentage of 21.7% is second for all rookies, ahead of renowned big men such as Kristaps Porzingis and Myles Turner.


Brooklyn has a net rating of -6.7 when Hollis-Jefferson is off the court, meaning the Nets are outscored by 6.7 points per 100 possessions when he sits. That number drops all the way down to -2.2 when Hollis-Jefferson is on the court. His contribution of 4.5 points easily blows away the rookie wing competition (with the exception of Winslow), illustrating that, despite his clear and obvious shortcomings, Hollis-Jefferson finds plenty of ways to contribute to the Nets.

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2016/3/28/the-best-nba-rookie-wing-is-rondae-hollis-jefferson

Good point. I hope RHJ stays healthy next season; we will need him.

good, then our good def assets are:
Lin 1/2, RHJ 2/3, Booker 3/4, Lopez 5
so every position are covered, other guys just need the effort to fill the roll, and we can afford put a guy with weak defense on court with all these 4 guys, Bojan on 3 I guess, then it's Lin/RHJ/Bojan/Booker/Lopez, look pretty good. offensively Booker/RHJ need to shoot 3 1000/day, in Croatia's games Bojan can handle the ball, not perfect 2nd ball handler but serviceable in that level. let's wait and see how it turns out in the league.

[Manitoba]

RHJ missed 50 games. Let's keep that in mind when making these comparisons because he can anchor a defense.

Good point. I hope RHJ stays healthy next season; we will need him.

good, then our good def assets are:
Lin 1/2, RHJ 2/3, Booker 3/4, Lopez 5
so every position are covered, other guys just need the effort to fill the roll, and we can afford put a guy with weak defense on court with all these 4 guys, Bojan on 3 I guess, then it's Lin/RHJ/Bojan/Booker/Lopez, look pretty good. offensively Booker/RHJ need to shoot 3 1000/day, in Croatia's games Bojan can handle the ball, not perfect 2nd ball handler but serviceable in that level. let's wait and see how it turns out in the league.

If only we had Crabbe too ... *sigh* ....

[ChokeFasncists]

Good point. I hope RHJ stays healthy next season; we will need him.

good, then our good def assets are:
Lin 1/2, RHJ 2/3, Booker 3/4, Lopez 5
so every position are covered, other guys just need the effort to fill the roll, and we can afford put a guy with weak defense on court with all these 4 guys, Bojan on 3 I guess, then it's Lin/RHJ/Bojan/Booker/Lopez, look pretty good. offensively Booker/RHJ need to shoot 3 1000/day, in Croatia's games Bojan can handle the ball, not perfect 2nd ball handler but serviceable in that level. let's wait and see how it turns out in the league.

If only we had Crabbe too ... *sigh* ....

But we DO have LeVert!

[Rockice_24]

While I hate to put the pressure on Levert if he steps up and can secure the starting SG spot earlier rather than later we will be much better off as a team.

Really he shouldn't be asked to do too much other than spot up from 3 and defend the other wing opposite RHJ. I'd rather Bogs off the bench as a 6th man so we can have Skill and Bogs off the bench giving us some actual much needed bench firepower.

Lin
Levert
RHJ
Booker
Lopez

Levert should be able to defend way better than Bogs giving us a solid defensive team. He just needs to be able to shoot though because we need floor spacers with no shooters at SF/PF. If he can stick 3's at a solid clip he should be the starter.

[Paradise]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/zukovka/status/754869863525584896[/tweet]

[Vae Victus]

Ok Lin fans, ya'll need a reality check on how things are gonna go next season. Lin himself will be fine. He'll post some great individual stats (18/8) as his usage and mins will spike up and from having very little offensive wing talent next to him to take the ball out of his hands. He'll help other players improve their game by being a willing and creative passer, so cutters and spot up shooters will see an uptick in their performance as long as they move to their assigned open spots. He'll hustle hard on D, help as much as he can (and likely get burned a ton by his man from 3), has from the past 2 years already gotten used to playing without an inside anchor (Al Jeff, Jordan Hill, Boozer, ahahhhahaha), so he'll move his feet and do his damndest to keep his man in front of him most of the time. This will help Brooke slightly, but if the 2-4 cant guard their man, it just wont matter that much in the great scheme of things.

However, Lin WILL NOT SINGLEHANDEDLY turn the team's fortunes around on his own. He will not turn a 2nd worst in league defense into an avg one, no matter how good the coaching, you need athletic talent at all positions with defensive awareness and willingness to learn to see great results. However if everyone hustles their ass off and helps on D the best they can then they can eke out below avg D overall. I will concede Lin can turn a league worst offense into an avg one assuming the coaching staff knows what its doing and gets everyone into the right spots so that Lin will find them open and of course feed Lin EPIC SHITTONS OF PnRs.

With excellent coaching and smart schemes the Nets can surprise alot of people and win a bunch of games, especially against younger and/or not very talented squads. Lin isnt really an individual scoring dynamo superstar, he is, at his core, a team first force multiplier, glue guy, coach's instrument on the floor. Lin will follow the coach's gameplan do or die even at the expense of his own stats/glory/reputation (see his stint with the LAL where Byron Scott constantly humiliated LIn despite him being a good soldier and always following orders, and allowing his own stats to suffer when he shoulda been stat padding for his next contract on that tanking squad), so if Atkinson is the real deal it can mean great things. If Atkinson cant get the squad to gel, then things will get ugly, but Lin will at least get his since the offense will likely just default to jungle mass PnR wildball, something Lin excels at as well.

Time will tell, but Lin's teammates should be happy with him, since they will know he's a pass 1st PG who WANTs to get everyone involved. If Lin feels the coach totally has his back and wont give him any **** over TOs, then perhaps we'll see a max potential Lin that we see saw glimpses of during Linsanity, over the course of most of the season.

[TinmanZBoy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/zukovka/status/754869863525584896[/tweet]

damn, Lin is doomed...
these two jinx Lin non-stop...

[DartboardT]

He'll hustle hard on D, help as much as he can (and likely get burned a ton by his man from 3)

On the specific subject of Lin defending the three:

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/3pt/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612766&sort=PLUSMINUS&dir=1

According to NBA.com/stats, last season opposing players took 3.2 3PTA against Lin, and he defended a ton of 6-5 thru 6-7ish SGs regularly. Their usual average was 35.1%, vs. Lin it was 36%.

It'd be interesting to see what those numbers would look like if Lin defends his own position (he may still do a lot of help defense this year depending on personnel). BUT, it's also encouraging that Lin was shoved into the SG role way more than he was probably planning for, but still defended well (earned Clifford's praise, plus held ALL offensive players to 1.6% BELOW their average FG% on an OVERALL basis).

My GUESS is if Lin defends mostly PGs, his 3PT% defense differential should improve, but we'll see.

[TinmanZBoy]

Jeremy Lin signed a 3 year / $38,300,000 contract with the Brooklyn Nets, including $38,300,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $12,766,667. In 2016-17, Lin will earn a base salary of $11,483,254. Lin has a cap hit of $11,483,254 while his dead money value is $36,000,000.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/brooklyn-nets/jeremy-lin/

can someone explain this to me?