Has front office changed the "goals"?

[Skin]

I didn't ignore Conley - he's right next to Parsons in my post. IMO he's an above average point guard in a league full of them. He wasn't worth that commitment.

And it's too easy to say well I know you'll say this guy got an extra year etc etc but those things matter.
Which other team got a meeting with Batum?
Which other team got a meeting with DeRozan?
Which other team got a meeting with Whiteside? (Mavs planned to but it was cancelled after he and the Heat agreed on day one of FA).
Drummond was an RFA anyway so that would have locked up our cap room for 3 days before Detroit matched.
Dwight's no longer an all-star caliber player and he's an injury worry as evidenced by the less than max shorter deal he took with the Hawks.
The Horford need was kind of addressed through Ibaka and certainly would have caused duplication in the front court - plus as I've said before he's not a home run when you consider age, playoff performance, injury history.
As I said earlier, did we try and get meetings with any of these guys sans Durant?

Re next year's class; the aim has to be that we are effectively this year's Boston. We make the playoffs, make some noise, build an identity, and then get the meetings (as Boston did with Durant). It's no sure thing as the Celtics found out but I imagine that's the aim.

No team got meetings with those guys, but do you really think that if Jerry West said that Hassan Whiteside is our #1 priotity, his agent wouldn't have at least scheduled a flight? It comes down to the right situation, and we just don't have that yet. As far as being the Celtics next summer, that may be asking a bit much. They got meetings with the top 2 free agents and landed 1. More likely is that we are this year's bulls where we can use our space to sign starters with something to prove.

Celtics in their current shape are going nowhere. Signing Horford alone will do nothing towards making them a real contender. They are a good team, but not a great team. Their whole strategy is based on collecting assets and creating cap space to flip that into stars, but they have failed to do it. They're like in a weird spot where only half their plan has worked so far.

They thought they were gonna get Durant. They thought they were gonna get Butler. Without any of those 2 or another star to add to Horford, just having Horford alone is a failure to execute their full plan. They have so much money tied up into him it ain't even funny.... and he's an older player.

We can't give them credit for that. Heck, we didn't even ask Horford to come here, so why are you acting like we "missed out"?

[npiper17]

I didn't ignore Conley - he's right next to Parsons in my post. IMO he's an above average point guard in a league full of them. He wasn't worth that commitment.

And it's too easy to say well I know you'll say this guy got an extra year etc etc but those things matter.
Which other team got a meeting with Batum?
Which other team got a meeting with DeRozan?
Which other team got a meeting with Whiteside? (Mavs planned to but it was cancelled after he and the Heat agreed on day one of FA).
Drummond was an RFA anyway so that would have locked up our cap room for 3 days before Detroit matched.
Dwight's no longer an all-star caliber player and he's an injury worry as evidenced by the less than max shorter deal he took with the Hawks.
The Horford need was kind of addressed through Ibaka and certainly would have caused duplication in the front court - plus as I've said before he's not a home run when you consider age, playoff performance, injury history.
As I said earlier, did we try and get meetings with any of these guys sans Durant?

Re next year's class; the aim has to be that we are effectively this year's Boston. We make the playoffs, make some noise, build an identity, and then get the meetings (as Boston did with Durant). It's no sure thing as the Celtics found out but I imagine that's the aim.

No team got meetings with those guys, but do you really think that if Jerry West said that Hassan Whiteside is our #1 priotity, his agent wouldn't have at least scheduled a flight? It comes down to the right situation, and we just don't have that yet. As far as being the Celtics next summer, that may be asking a bit much. They got meetings with the top 2 free agents and landed 1. More likely is that we are this year's bulls where we can use our space to sign starters with something to prove.

I'm not disputing that we don't have the right situation as yet. As I said in my first post on this, our future is tied to the development of Gordon and Hezonja. If those guys show something this season and we start to build an identity as a team then we're in a stronger position next off-season to appeal to FAs. I have confidence that Orlando / Florida can be appealing to FAs but we don't have the team yet and that's they key. Aiming to be next off-season's Boston may be high but you should always aim high. Plus I feel we have time to make up having thrown away Year 3 of the rebuild.

[KingRobb02]

I didn't ignore Conley - he's right next to Parsons in my post. IMO he's an above average point guard in a league full of them. He wasn't worth that commitment.

And it's too easy to say well I know you'll say this guy got an extra year etc etc but those things matter.
Which other team got a meeting with Batum?
Which other team got a meeting with DeRozan?
Which other team got a meeting with Whiteside? (Mavs planned to but it was cancelled after he and the Heat agreed on day one of FA).
Drummond was an RFA anyway so that would have locked up our cap room for 3 days before Detroit matched.
Dwight's no longer an all-star caliber player and he's an injury worry as evidenced by the less than max shorter deal he took with the Hawks.
The Horford need was kind of addressed through Ibaka and certainly would have caused duplication in the front court - plus as I've said before he's not a home run when you consider age, playoff performance, injury history.
As I said earlier, did we try and get meetings with any of these guys sans Durant?

Re next year's class; the aim has to be that we are effectively this year's Boston. We make the playoffs, make some noise, build an identity, and then get the meetings (as Boston did with Durant). It's no sure thing as the Celtics found out but I imagine that's the aim.

No team got meetings with those guys, but do you really think that if Jerry West said that Hassan Whiteside is our #1 priotity, his agent wouldn't have at least scheduled a flight? It comes down to the right situation, and we just don't have that yet. As far as being the Celtics next summer, that may be asking a bit much. They got meetings with the top 2 free agents and landed 1. More likely is that we are this year's bulls where we can use our space to sign starters with something to prove.

I'm not disputing that we don't have the right situation as yet. As I said in my first post on this, our future is tied to the development of Gordon and Hezonja. If those guys show something this season and we start to build an identity as a team then we're in a stronger position next off-season to appeal to FAs. I have confidence that Orlando / Florida can be appealing to FAs but we don't have the team yet and that's they key. Aiming to be next off-season's Boston may be high but you should always aim high. Plus I feel we have time to make up having thrown away Year 3 of the rebuild.

We're gettign kind of far away from my original point that we can't really make fun of Philly's rebuild anymore. Not ignoring your point though. You're right, I hope those guys blow up and we look good.

[KingRobb02]

I didn't ignore Conley - he's right next to Parsons in my post. IMO he's an above average point guard in a league full of them. He wasn't worth that commitment.

And it's too easy to say well I know you'll say this guy got an extra year etc etc but those things matter.
Which other team got a meeting with Batum?
Which other team got a meeting with DeRozan?
Which other team got a meeting with Whiteside? (Mavs planned to but it was cancelled after he and the Heat agreed on day one of FA).
Drummond was an RFA anyway so that would have locked up our cap room for 3 days before Detroit matched.
Dwight's no longer an all-star caliber player and he's an injury worry as evidenced by the less than max shorter deal he took with the Hawks.
The Horford need was kind of addressed through Ibaka and certainly would have caused duplication in the front court - plus as I've said before he's not a home run when you consider age, playoff performance, injury history.
As I said earlier, did we try and get meetings with any of these guys sans Durant?

Re next year's class; the aim has to be that we are effectively this year's Boston. We make the playoffs, make some noise, build an identity, and then get the meetings (as Boston did with Durant). It's no sure thing as the Celtics found out but I imagine that's the aim.

No team got meetings with those guys, but do you really think that if Jerry West said that Hassan Whiteside is our #1 priotity, his agent wouldn't have at least scheduled a flight? It comes down to the right situation, and we just don't have that yet. As far as being the Celtics next summer, that may be asking a bit much. They got meetings with the top 2 free agents and landed 1. More likely is that we are this year's bulls where we can use our space to sign starters with something to prove.

Celtics in their current shape are going nowhere. Signing Horford alone will do nothing towards making them a real contender. They are a good team, but not a great team. Their whole strategy is based on collecting assets and creating cap space to flip that into stars, but they have failed to do it. They're like in a weird spot where only half their plan has worked so far.

They thought they were gonna get Durant. They thought they were gonna get Butler. Without any of those 2 or another star to add to Horford, just having Horford alone is a failure to execute their full plan. They have so much money tied up into him it ain't even funny.... and he's an older player.

We can't give them credit for that. Heck, we didn't even ask Horford to come here, so why are you acting like we "missed out"?

I'm willing to bet that the Celtics get the 1 seed. It's weird you think of a guy who just turned 30 as an older player.

[npiper17]

No team got meetings with those guys, but do you really think that if Jerry West said that Hassan Whiteside is our #1 priotity, his agent wouldn't have at least scheduled a flight? It comes down to the right situation, and we just don't have that yet. As far as being the Celtics next summer, that may be asking a bit much. They got meetings with the top 2 free agents and landed 1. More likely is that we are this year's bulls where we can use our space to sign starters with something to prove.

I'm not disputing that we don't have the right situation as yet. As I said in my first post on this, our future is tied to the development of Gordon and Hezonja. If those guys show something this season and we start to build an identity as a team then we're in a stronger position next off-season to appeal to FAs. I have confidence that Orlando / Florida can be appealing to FAs but we don't have the team yet and that's they key. Aiming to be next off-season's Boston may be high but you should always aim high. Plus I feel we have time to make up having thrown away Year 3 of the rebuild.

We're gettign kind of far away from my original point that we can't really make fun of Philly's rebuild anymore.

I stepped in from the Augustin point where you made a comment about what the point of the cap space was this summer.

Just an evolving conversation man....these things can and usually do happen when people make a point, back it up, then go back and forth. Fun isn't it?

[BadMofoPimp]

I'm not disputing that we don't have the right situation as yet. As I said in my first post on this, our future is tied to the development of Gordon and Hezonja. If those guys show something this season and we start to build an identity as a team then we're in a stronger position next off-season to appeal to FAs. I have confidence that Orlando / Florida can be appealing to FAs but we don't have the team yet and that's they key. Aiming to be next off-season's Boston may be high but you should always aim high. Plus I feel we have time to make up having thrown away Year 3 of the rebuild.

We're gettign kind of far away from my original point that we can't really make fun of Philly's rebuild anymore.

I stepped in from the Augustin point where you made a comment about what the point of the cap space was this summer.

Just an evolving conversation man....these things can and usually do happen when people make a point, back it up, then go back and forth. Fun isn't it?

Perhaps not, if you are a Vucevic, Payton or BBD fan . . .

[KingRobb02]

I'm not disputing that we don't have the right situation as yet. As I said in my first post on this, our future is tied to the development of Gordon and Hezonja. If those guys show something this season and we start to build an identity as a team then we're in a stronger position next off-season to appeal to FAs. I have confidence that Orlando / Florida can be appealing to FAs but we don't have the team yet and that's they key. Aiming to be next off-season's Boston may be high but you should always aim high. Plus I feel we have time to make up having thrown away Year 3 of the rebuild.

We're gettign kind of far away from my original point that we can't really make fun of Philly's rebuild anymore.

I stepped in from the Augustin point where you made a comment about what the point of the cap space was this summer.

Just an evolving conversation man....these things can and usually do happen when people make a point, back it up, then go back and forth. Fun isn't it?

Kind of a waste.

Don't freak out. I'm joking

[npiper17]

We're gettign kind of far away from my original point that we can't really make fun of Philly's rebuild anymore.

I stepped in from the Augustin point where you made a comment about what the point of the cap space was this summer.

Just an evolving conversation man....these things can and usually do happen when people make a point, back it up, then go back and forth. Fun isn't it?

Kind of a waste.

Don't freak out. I'm joking

Don't worry I'm always happy to see your sense of humour coming out!

[Skin]

No team got meetings with those guys, but do you really think that if Jerry West said that Hassan Whiteside is our #1 priotity, his agent wouldn't have at least scheduled a flight? It comes down to the right situation, and we just don't have that yet. As far as being the Celtics next summer, that may be asking a bit much. They got meetings with the top 2 free agents and landed 1. More likely is that we are this year's bulls where we can use our space to sign starters with something to prove.

Celtics in their current shape are going nowhere. Signing Horford alone will do nothing towards making them a real contender. They are a good team, but not a great team. Their whole strategy is based on collecting assets and creating cap space to flip that into stars, but they have failed to do it. They're like in a weird spot where only half their plan has worked so far.

They thought they were gonna get Durant. They thought they were gonna get Butler. Without any of those 2 or another star to add to Horford, just having Horford alone is a failure to execute their full plan. They have so much money tied up into him it ain't even funny.... and he's an older player.

We can't give them credit for that. Heck, we didn't even ask Horford to come here, so why are you acting like we "missed out"?

I'm willing to bet that the Celtics get the 1 seed. It's weird you think of a guy who just turned 30 as an older player.

I'd take a bet against that easily. 30 is not young. We can both agree to that.

[KingRobb02]

Celtics in their current shape are going nowhere. Signing Horford alone will do nothing towards making them a real contender. They are a good team, but not a great team. Their whole strategy is based on collecting assets and creating cap space to flip that into stars, but they have failed to do it. They're like in a weird spot where only half their plan has worked so far.

They thought they were gonna get Durant. They thought they were gonna get Butler. Without any of those 2 or another star to add to Horford, just having Horford alone is a failure to execute their full plan. They have so much money tied up into him it ain't even funny.... and he's an older player.

We can't give them credit for that. Heck, we didn't even ask Horford to come here, so why are you acting like we "missed out"?

I'm willing to bet that the Celtics get the 1 seed. It's weird you think of a guy who just turned 30 as an older player.

I'd take a bet against that easily. 30 is not young. We can both agree to that.

Lebron, Chris Paul, Millsap, LaMarcus, JJ.... It's not like these guys fell off a cliff last year.

[Skin]

I'm willing to bet that the Celtics get the 1 seed. It's weird you think of a guy who just turned 30 as an older player.

I'd take a bet against that easily. 30 is not young. We can both agree to that.

Lebron, Chris Paul, Millsap, LaMarcus, JJ.... It's not like these guys fell off a cliff last year.

This justification is not worth responding to. If you can't admit that Horford is a misfit for the direction of this team in age, money, health, questionable playoff impact, and fit with our roster, then you're just lying to yourself. Then again, maybe that's what you're about... thinking that Boston will be the #1 seed next year.

[KingRobb02]

I'd take a bet against that easily. 30 is not young. We can both agree to that.

Lebron, Chris Paul, Millsap, LaMarcus, JJ.... It's not like these guys fell off a cliff last year.

This justification is not worth responding to. If you can't admit that Horford is a misfit for the direction of this team in age, money, health, questionable playoff impact, and fit with our roster, then you're just lying to yourself. Then again, maybe that's what you're about... thinking that Boston will be the #1 seed next year.

Basically I'm going off of 3 things:
1) They are better than the Raptors were this and that team was 1 game out of 1st
2) The Cavs got worst, and most likely will be coasting
3) The upgrade from Sullinger/Amir to Horford is huge.

I just don't see how you can be opposed to signing an all-star center regardless of age. 30 isn't that old for a guy like Horford. He will bring passing, shooting, rim protection, and a name to pair with another star that Danny continues to chase. He might not look great in the last year of the deal, but he gives them at least two years of star level play. Probably 3. Plus, you bring up health? He has missed 6 games total since 2014. The bump he provides should be more than the Lamarcus Aldridge signing last year.

[Orlwillbeback]

Lol

The Celtics basically did the same thing we're still trying to do they're just much better at it because they've gotten bargain good talents through trades and free agent signings. We haven't even drafted better technically considering they got Olynyk, Sullinger, and hell even Avery Bradley is looking like a good pick now.

They're easily a much better run organization from a basketball standpoint.

The idea that merely adding Horford does not make them a contender is technically true but they are still much closer than we are.

Until Lebron retires or simply declines too much, his team is basically the only contender in the east.

[KingRobb02]

Lol

The Celtics basically did the same thing we're still trying to do they're just much better at it because they've gotten bargain good talents through trades and free agent signings. We haven't even drafted better technically considering they got Olynyk, Sullinger, and hell even Avery Bradley is looking like a good pick now.

They're easily a much better run organization from a basketball standpoint.

The idea that merely adding Horford does not make them a contender is technically true but they are still much closer than we are.

Until Lebron retires or simply declines too much, his team is basically the only contender in the east.

I semi-agree with that. I just think they have it in them to win the regular season in the East. If nothing else, having Brooklyn's pick and no real need to tank has helped them be clear on what they have wanted the past couple years.

[SOUL]

Brad Stevens was vital for Boston last year. They also had a deep team with several impact vets.

[Skin]

Lebron, Chris Paul, Millsap, LaMarcus, JJ.... It's not like these guys fell off a cliff last year.

This justification is not worth responding to. If you can't admit that Horford is a misfit for the direction of this team in age, money, health, questionable playoff impact, and fit with our roster, then you're just lying to yourself. Then again, maybe that's what you're about... thinking that Boston will be the #1 seed next year.

Basically I'm going off of 3 things:
1) They are better than the Raptors were this and that team was 1 game out of 1st
2) The Cavs got worst, and most likely will be coasting
3) The upgrade from Sullinger/Amir to Horford is huge.

I just don't see how you can be opposed to signing an all-star center regardless of age. 30 isn't that old for a guy like Horford. He will bring passing, shooting, rim protection, and a name to pair with another star that Danny continues to chase. He might not look great in the last year of the deal, but he gives them at least two years of star level play. Probably 3. Plus, you bring up health? He has missed 6 games total since 2014. The bump he provides should be more than the Lamarcus Aldridge signing last year.

Because we are building something that can be sustainable. Our core is young. The big long term investments we make should be in line with the development window of our core. That's what Biyombo is and that's what Horford isn't. At the end of Biyombo's contract, he'll still be 3 years younger than Horford is right now. Do you get that?

Horford didn't bring a name to pair either, so not sure on the validity of your point there. BOS fans were so excited about Durant joining them for a split second and then it didn't happen. Ainge might be the most frustrated GM in the league right now with his inability to pawn off any of his young players for a big named star. He's got a mishmash of talent and a team that is split in it's direction. Why are they the model that the Magic should be trying to duplicate?

[KingRobb02]

This justification is not worth responding to. If you can't admit that Horford is a misfit for the direction of this team in age, money, health, questionable playoff impact, and fit with our roster, then you're just lying to yourself. Then again, maybe that's what you're about... thinking that Boston will be the #1 seed next year.

Basically I'm going off of 3 things:
1) They are better than the Raptors were this and that team was 1 game out of 1st
2) The Cavs got worst, and most likely will be coasting
3) The upgrade from Sullinger/Amir to Horford is huge.

I just don't see how you can be opposed to signing an all-star center regardless of age. 30 isn't that old for a guy like Horford. He will bring passing, shooting, rim protection, and a name to pair with another star that Danny continues to chase. He might not look great in the last year of the deal, but he gives them at least two years of star level play. Probably 3. Plus, you bring up health? He has missed 6 games total since 2014. The bump he provides should be more than the Lamarcus Aldridge signing last year.

Because we are building something that can be sustainable. Our core is young. The big long term investments we make should be in line with the development window of our core. That's what Biyombo is and that's what Horford isn't. At the end of Biyombo's contract, he'll still be 3 years younger than Horford is right now. Do you get that?

Horford didn't bring a name to pair either, so not sure on the validity of your point there. BOS fans were so excited about Durant joining them for a split second and then it didn't happen. Ainge might be the most frustrated GM in the league right now with his inability to pawn off any of his young players for a big named star. He's got a mishmash of talent and a team that is split in it's direction. Why are they the model that the Magic should be trying to duplicate?

Horford is better now and will be better in 3 years than biyombo. Age is not an issue. Their rebuild is going well since:

A. They have 2 all-star players already
B. They have means to keep bringing in young talent with the nets picks
C. They have a good young core
D. They have a great young coach
E. All their guys have playoff experience

I think you're too hung up on age. You think that al will be too old by the time they are ready to be competitive, but I think they are ready to be competitive now.