OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc

[saintEscaton]

Lame, its one thing to condemn senseless violence but another to uphold a rotten instituition

What institution is that?

The police of course, guilty as any in perpetuating systemic racism

[bwgood77]

Lame, its one thing to condemn senseless violence but another to uphold a rotten instituition

What institution is that?

The police of course, guilty as any in perpetuating systemic racism

Blaming an entire group as you are for actions of perhaps a select few is the type of thinking that leads to racism.

[saintEscaton]

What institution is that?

The police of course, guilty as any in perpetuating systemic racism

Blaming an entire group as you are for actions of perhaps a select few is the type of thinking that leads to racism.

These aren't isolated incidents. whole "what would you do if you were in their shoes "standpoint epistemology" is apologia for the status quo. "Reverse racism" is in itself an oxymoron

[darealjuice]

The police of course, guilty as any in perpetuating systemic racism

Blaming an entire group as you are for actions of perhaps a select few is the type of thinking that leads to racism.

These aren't isolated incidents. whole "what would you do if you were in their shoes "standpoint epistemology" is apologia for the status quo. "Reverse racism" is in itself an oxymoron

They're isolated enough that you can't call an entire institution corrupt. Are there precincts that are inherently corrupt that need to be held accountable and washed clean of the people casting a negative shadow on police officers in America? Absolutely. But to insinuate that there is widespread racism is pretty overzealous. Just because a very small percentage cops are corrupt and thrown into the mainstream spotlight for being that way doesn't mean that you need to look at every cop like they're the same. That's the type of thinking that leads unstable people to bring about events like what happened in Dallas. For every bad apple, there are many good ones.

[bwgood77]

The police of course, guilty as any in perpetuating systemic racism

Blaming an entire group as you are for actions of perhaps a select few is the type of thinking that leads to racism.

These aren't isolated incidents. whole "what would you do if you were in their shoes "standpoint epistemology" is apologia for the status quo. "Reverse racism" is in itself an oxymoron

I have no idea what you are talking about it with those statements. What are not isolated incidents? Cops getting killed? If that's what you mean, thanks for pointing that out. It doesn't solve anything though.

There is corruption and racism everywhere. If your point is that police officer's lives are not more important than anyone else's, I agree with that, but that doesn't sound like your point.

This shooting actually sounded like something that may happen in the line of duty on occasion from the little I read.

This country has WAY too many people imprisoned for non violent crimes and WAY too big of a proportion of those are minorities. This has been a monumental problem for some time, but this isn't the right avenue for a solution.

[bigfoot]

Lame, its one thing to condemn senseless violence but another to uphold a rotten instituition

What institution is that?

The police of course, guilty as any in perpetuating systemic racism

This is such bull and makes you no better than the racists that exist in the world. Racists categorize a group of people based on skin color or ethnicity, bad mouth them, and treat them unfairly. Racists don't judge people by their character and we all know it is wrong.

How is what you are doing any different? You lump all police into one category. So wrong on so many levels. You need to do some serious soul searching dude. Really your thinking is so narrow minded it is sad.

[saintEscaton]

What institution is that?

The police of course, guilty as any in perpetuating systemic racism

This is such bull and makes you no better than the racists that exist in the world. Racists categorize a group of people based on skin color or ethnicity, bad mouth them, and treat them unfairly. Racists don't judge people by their character and we all know it is wrong.

How is what you are doing any different? You lump all police into one category. So wrong on so many levels. You need to do some serious soul searching dude. Really your thinking is so narrow minded it is sad.

Yeah get back me to when you are able to make a nuanced argument without resorting to trite moralism. Any redeeming quality/autonomy is surrendered when you willingly become a henchman of the state. The entire tree is poisoned.

[bigfoot]

The police of course, guilty as any in perpetuating systemic racism

This is such bull and makes you no better than the racists that exist in the world. Racists categorize a group of people based on skin color or ethnicity, bad mouth them, and treat them unfairly. Racists don't judge people by their character and we all know it is wrong.

How is what you are doing any different? You lump all police into one category. So wrong on so many levels. You need to do some serious soul searching dude. Really your thinking is so narrow minded it is sad.

Any redeeming quality/autonomy is surrendered when you willingly become a henchman of the state. The entire tree is poisoned.

So by your assessment the act of becoming a police officer means that person loses all redeeming qualities and independent free will. Did I get that right?

[Frank Lee]

This is a decades old problem that is being forcefully addressed. Remove the influence of technology, and it would still be business as usual.

Its not just shooting. The excessive use of force in apprehension is equally disturbing. Look at the way cops are presenting themselves? It is mandatory you have to shave your head and adopt a nazi demeanor to do the job correctly? I swear, in my former town, 90% of the force were young, jackbooting storm troopers who looked forward to the opportunity to 'gang stomp' anyone giving them the slightest reason to do so. They jump individuals like a pack of pit bulls.

May be the new breed of Cop reflects the new breed of society. More violent, less educated, no remorse, and susceptible to rage. They need to cleanse their forces and modify their hiring and training practices.

The men in blue have blown it.

[bigfoot]

This is a decades old problem that is being forcefully addressed. Remove the influence of technology, and it would still be business as usual.

Its not just shooting. The excessive use of force in apprehension is equally disturbing. Look at the way cops are presenting themselves? It is mandatory you have to shave your head and adopt a nazi demeanor to do the job correctly? I swear, in my former town, 90% of the force were young, jackbooting storm troopers who looked forward to the opportunity to 'gang stomp' anyone giving them the slightest reason to do so. They jump individuals like a pack of pit bulls.

May be the new breed of Cop reflects the new breed of society. More violent, less educated, no remorse, and susceptible to rage. They need to cleanse their forces and modify their hiring and training practices.

The men in blue have blown it.

Wow! I guess the question I would have for you and Saint is what personal encounters have you had with police to support your biases. I'm guessing based on your posts that both of you have had the **** beaten out of you and have been treated unfairly. That is really the only thing I could understand.

The alternative is, at a very young age, you were instilled by your parents to fear and hate police.

I find it odd that Watson, a black man who obviously supports and teaches a philosophy of family and love to his players, is chastised for supporting police. He obviously has family and friends who are policemen. My guess is he has had the opportunity to sit and have honest discussions with policemen. Learning about and communicating with people you fear gives you completely different perspective. White people should socialize with black people to break down barriers of racism and hear how their lives have been impacted by police and the color of their skin. Likewise, people who fear the police should do the same (unless they are criminals of course). Go on a few ride-a-longs and get to know the human behind the blue shirt. In both cases it allows for empathy and compassion.

[bwgood77]

The police of course, guilty as any in perpetuating systemic racism

This is such bull and makes you no better than the racists that exist in the world. Racists categorize a group of people based on skin color or ethnicity, bad mouth them, and treat them unfairly. Racists don't judge people by their character and we all know it is wrong.

How is what you are doing any different? You lump all police into one category. So wrong on so many levels. You need to do some serious soul searching dude. Really your thinking is so narrow minded it is sad.

Yeah get back me to when you are able to make a nuanced argument without resorting to trite moralism. Any redeeming quality/autonomy is surrendered when you willingly become a henchman of the state. The entire tree is poisoned.

So what kind of action or impact are you participating in to help alleviate this big issue?

[Frank Lee]

Yes, I have been singled out and physically man handled. I was committing no crime, but just fitting their profile. I have been detained and released with no explanation. But my comments are also based on observations more so than personal experiences. This **** has been going on at least since the 60s. Don't be naive. Look at history. You have seen firehoses and german shepherds employed no ? Oh but wait, that was a long time ago.

I realize the difficulty of the job, but you have to acknowledge its more than a bad apple syndrome going on here. There has been a massive practice of 'cover your ass' within the departments. Is the cop who looks the other way and doesn't report the inappropriate and illegal behavior of his fellow cop absolved from guilt? Its very similar to the military. You discredit the institution, even with the truth, you will be punished internally. It is an unwritten law.

Look what happened in NCharleston SC.... if not for the cell phoning bystander, it would have been just another day. The cop murdered a dude... and his partner danced around the details in his own report. http://time.com/3818729/clarence-habersham-walter-scott-shoting/ Accountability is the first step in correction.

Do you realize there is no national data base to monitor the frequency of Police using their gun, let alone using their guns AND killing someone ?

[bigfoot]

Yes, I have been singled out and physically man handled. I was committing no crime, but just fitting their profile. I have been detained and released with no explanation. But my comments are also based on observations more so than personal experiences. This **** has been going on at least since the 60s. Don't be naive. Look at history. You have seen firehoses and german shepherds employed no ? Oh but wait, that was a long time ago.

I realize the difficulty of the job, but you have to acknowledge its more than a bad apple syndrome going on here. There has been a massive practice of 'cover your ass' within the departments. Is the cop who looks the other way and doesn't report the inappropriate and illegal behavior of his fellow cop absolved from guilt? Its very similar to the military. You discredit the institution, even with the truth, you will be punished internally. It is an unwritten law.

Look what happened in NCharleston SC.... if not for the cell phoning bystander, it would have been just another day. The cop murdered a dude... and his partner danced around the details in his own report. http://time.com/3818729/clarence-habersham-walter-scott-shoting/ Accountability is the first step in correction.

Do you realize there is no national data base to monitor the frequency of Police using their gun, let alone using their guns AND killing someone ?

Finally a reasonable responsive about the problem. I agree there is culture in the police department to CYA when an officer makes a mistake or a worse commits a crime. But remember that culture also exists in the violent neighborhoods the police patrol. When citizen's witness crimes and then look the other way and don' t report the inappropriate and illegal behavior of their fellow citizens or neighbors does that absolve them from guilt? Apparently it does. You don't narc on your fellow citizen or neighbor when they are involved in criminal activities. Accountability is the first step in correction. See how easy it is to twist your words back on you?

Sure its a police problem, it's a neighborhood problem too. And most importantly it is a individual problem. Individuals need to take a serious look at themselves and ask how they are contributing to the problem. How can they help solve this national problem. Obviously police officers must report fellow police officers when there are wrong doings. Neighbors need to report the criminals in their communities too. But to say the problem is only on the police and that they must be the only ones to change is wrong thinking. We need police and we need good neighbors that work together hand-in-hand and that care about each other and want to work to make the communities better.

Statistically, there are 1.1 million police officers in the US. Assuming they have 10 interactions per day with the public (which is probably low) that is 11 million daily police-to-public interactions. How many police shootings happen per interaction? How many abuses are happening per interaction. Statistically the number is small. Not insignificant but small. Statistically that tells me there are way more good cops than bad apples. That needs to be acknowledged because the police are putting their lives and families lives at risk every day the put on a uniform.

I don't have a problem having a database on police firing guns or shootings. Not a problem at all. Sign me up. I also don't have problem where everyone the USA has to submit fingerprints and DNA to a database so we can help police solve crimes. Nor do I have a problem where every gun owner needs to have registered gun in a database with ballistic information stored too. Oh people would scream and holler about privacy but I would guess most of them would be engaged in some level of criminal activity. I'd be happy seeing marijuana legalized so we don't incarcerate people for a drug that is not even close to as bad a alcohol. There are a lot of things that can be changed

[bigfoot]

Lame, its one thing to condemn senseless violence but another to uphold a rotten instituition

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/heat-index/2016/07/20/suns-earl-watson-saddened-hometown-cops-death/87328234/

Suns coach Earl Watson was profoundly affected by Tuesday's fatal shooting of a police officer in Kansas City, Kan.

Beyond his socially conscious and compassionate way, Watson is a Kansas City native who lost one of his brothers, a retired police officer, two years ago as a result of complications from a Kansas City shooting in which another brother also was shot but survived.

That background left Watson, 37, expressing how he felt "saddened" and "disappointed" Tuesday in a Facebook message about the death of Kansas City police officer Robert Melton, 46.

Watson obviously knows both sides of the story. Again take sometime to think about and empathize with both sides whenever you have problem with someone/something. Trust me it will make you a better person in the long run.

[lilfishi22]

It's hard for me to understand the true level of systematic racism and police brutality in general being away from the situation and seemingly only being fed the negative individual stories from overseas. Correct me if I'm totally off-base but I feel it's a departmental attitude which have evolved to this state due to social and criminal factors of the area they service. Listening to the two Joe Rogan podcasts when he had ex Baltimore police officer Michael Wood Jr on and another one with the corrupt ex-cop, it does seem like each department have their own style of policing based on the area they police. Baltimore being a particular high crime area, the officers there dealt with matters with more of a no-nonsense style.

Now I don't believe the majority of people going into the force go in there just bust heads and go on car chases. There are definitely cowboys gravitating towards that mindset but I believe most people go into the force to make a difference. Now, once they get into the force, get assigned to whatever area, they are then indoctrinated into that department's way of doing things. The way they do things in many cases are illegal and should be dealt with with a proper, unbiased third party investigation and punishment. There are absolutely departments that are run like a gang while there are others with a few bad seeds but I think it's unfair to label the entire police institution as corrupt and/or perpetuating systematic racism.

Bigfoot made a great point about the number of police interactions vs police wrongdoings and he's right in that even considering the unreported abuse or illegal interactions, it's likely a very small percentage of incidents compared to the millions of interactions daily. Does that mean we should turn a blind eye because the problem is likely small? Absolutely not because they are the ones who should be upholding the law in the correct and legal way. But we're also dealing with over a million human beings, who are prone to wrongdoing and mistakes.

I loved the idea of the body cameras that has been proposed and I think installed in a number of PD's across America. It forces individuals to consider personal responsibility rather than just run with a pack mentality. If they do something wrong, even if it's within the "code" of their department, then it needs to be called out.

[LukasBMW]

Regarding Trump or Hillary, there is another option: Gary Johnson.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-07-20/does-libertarian-candidate-gary-johnson-have-a-shot

He's polling at 10-13% which means he's only a 2-5% shift away from making the magical 15% needed to get on stage and debate Trump/Hillary.

If he can get on stage, I think he has a shot. He speaks common sense and is direct. He will dismantle both Hillary and Trump. BUT we have to get him polling at 15% to get him on stage.

What is a libertarian? A libertarian is someone who is socially accepting and fiscally responsible.

You lefties will like his stances on social issues. You lefties will also like that he wants to dismantle the special interest hold on the economy and go back to a true free market system that forces the big corporations to play fair.

You right wingers will like the fact that he supports the 2nd amendment, believes in low taxes, and he doesn't just talk the talk on economic freedom, he walks the walk.

Let gay people get married
Let people smoke weed if they want
Let people get abortions if they want
End discrimination. Social equality for EVERYONE regardless of race/religion/color/background
Keep our taxes low
Preserve our right to own firearms
Stop special interest corruption in our free market
Lower taxes and regulations on small and medium business

Thanks for listening.

[Damkac]

R.I.P. Europe

[lilfishi22]

It's bloody insane what's going on over there. Barely a few years ago you could say, oh did you hear about that terrorist attack? and everyone will know what you're talking about. You ask the same question now and people would be asking which one.

[King4Day]

Didn't know where else to post this.

With regards to getting better balance in the NBA, what if the league followed a similar path to the MLB where, if a player is a top tier free agent, the team who signs the player (KD for example) gives their first round pick to the team losing the player?
I think it works somewhat different in baseball, but this would force teams to really think about signing away big names.
Sure the picks won't be worth much, but it'd prevent them from drafting a cheap player who can fill the bench (like Looney on the Warriors).

If the team doesn't have the pick that year, they give up their next available first rounder.

So Miami, in 2010, would have had to give up 2 firsts to (one to the Raps and one to the Cavs), to sign the 2 superstars.
This would make OKC a bit less anxious to deal Westbrook because they'd know, they'll at least get something, even if it's a late first rounder, if they lose him.

What's everyone's thoughts?

[bwgood77]

Didn't know where else to post this.

With regards to getting better balance in the NBA, what if the league followed a similar path to the MLB where, if a player is a top tier free agent, the team who signs the player (KD for example) gives their first round pick to the team losing the player?
I think it works somewhat different in baseball, but this would force teams to really think about signing away big names.
Sure the picks won't be worth much, but it'd prevent them from drafting a cheap player who can fill the bench (like Looney on the Warriors).

If the team doesn't have the pick that year, they give up their next available first rounder.

So Miami, in 2010, would have had to give up 2 firsts to (one to the Raps and one to the Cavs), to sign the 2 superstars.
This would make OKC a bit less anxious to deal Westbrook because they'd know, they'll at least get something, even if it's a late first rounder, if they lose him.

What's everyone's thoughts?

The NFL gives a provisional pick, like a pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds. Or maybe between the 2nd and 3rd. But of course in the NFL, a pick in the third round is still super valuable, so it wouldn't hold the same value. Your proposal would be tough to follow since teams may not own their own pick. It does seem like they should, at a minimum, get some kind of extra room exception, if they otherwise would have been allowed to go over the cap to re-sign their own players, but suddenly lost all of this cap space because a long time player left. They will have to cut quite a few people if they wanted to sign Westbrook and another max player next offseason. An extra room exception wouldn't likely be fair to other teams that are not over the cap though, so I don't know that it works.

Something like the franchise tag would be interesting, but that would never fly either.