Can The Bucks Get "IT" Back?

[GI_Slow]

Pretty sure Knight made their teammates worse while in Milwaukee (except for 1 or 2)

[JonFromVA]

2 Seasons ago the Bucks came out of nowhere with Jason Kidd as the coach. They were composed of a mix of veterans and young players and were 41-41. Definitely overachieved what most fans and analysts predicted.

When a team makes a jump like the Bucks did, you can't always just extend that upwards line.

Fact is the Buck's offense has been 26th in the league the past two years, while their D has dropped from 4th to 23rd.

I'd look for your answer right there ...

[Frank Dux]

That Monroe/Parker front court pairing is a disaster.

[giberish]

Monroe takes a ton of blame for their defensive downgrade, but it was mostly from the forward spot. They had a very effective rotation with Giannis/Dudley/Illysova. Then the lost Dudley and Illysova and replaced them with more minutes from Parker and a void off the bench. Not only were the bench players very weak but Parker was a disaster on defense as well (Monroe didn't really help but he wasn't the main problem).

Parker's young enough that he should improve on defense, the question is how much better does he get (and can his offense become good enough that he's valuable even as a below-average defender). Teletovic will help some off the bench. He's not great but can work as a competent team defender as Dudley and Illysova were. Overall they should be at least partly back next season.

[sixerswillrule]

Their ORtg was 26th in 2015 and 26th in 2016.

Their DRtg was 4th in 2015 and 23rd in 2016.

That's a pretty massive drop.

[zimpy27]

Sure they can.
Losing Zaza and adding Monroe was a problem because it destroyed their defense. Two years ago they were the second best defense in the league and despite a bad offense they managed to be very competitive.
Parker replacing Ilyasova also meant less spacing, especially when the PG was MCW who can't shoot.

Dellavedova is a good shooter and with Giannis running the point he'd basically be a 3 and D guard, which is his perfect role, so I think he'll be a very good fit next to Middleton and Antetokounmpo.
Monroe's offense is valuable, but he should come off the bench and lead the second unit. The starting five works better with Plumlee or Henson.
They need at least another decent shooter in the starting 5 and I don't think it's going to be Giannis, so Jabari has to start shooting.
If that happens they will make the playoff and I see them getting better every year.
Giannis is special, but his broken jumper means his teammates need to be handpicked to fit until he gets better (he will, his mechanic is not bad).

I think this too. I think they are perfect from 1-3 with Dellavedova, Middleton and Giannis. They need to sort out their front court. I actually think Thon should be the PF with Monroe at C. That's unpopular because Jabari is one of their best young players but the spacing is really bad unless they can make Thon fill out enough to be a C.

[Cosmic_Backlash]

I feel like bucks are a really polarizing team because a lot of people like to circlejerk about how great Giannis is and how bad Monroe is.

Facts are Monroe led the bucks in Win Shares, PER, and was 2nd in On/Off Performance. He has his flaws - he's not an elite defensive center, but holy hell it's ridiculous how much centers with an offensive game are hated on because they aren't an elite 2-way player.

Everyone loves Giannis, but nobody ever looks at how he hurts the bucks. He's a terrible outside threat shooting an abysmal 25% from 3. He also didn't shoot above 35% from any range past 5 feet. Let me say that again. He shot 35% or less for every range past 5 feet.

On the other end of the floor while defending past 15 feet opponents shot 2.4% better when defended by him. When guarding the 3 point shot, opponents shot 3.8% better. However, he is an elite interior defender with his long arms, opponents shoot 8% worse in the paint when defended by him.

With this being said, Bucks have a chance to be great - but they need to figure out their outside shooting if they want to succeed. It's just so disappointing seeing so many people say "omg, Giannis is going to be the best" and "Monroe is dragging the whole team down". Open your eyes, look at the good and bad of both players and how the team is constructed. Yeah, the team is long - too bad most of their players have critical flaws while their strengths, at this point time, don't compliment each other. I will say they're lucky they got MIddleton locked up - he's a huge key to their success when they do have it.

[ZeppelinPage]

Losing the slow turd that is Monroe would be a great start.

[Froob]

Brandon Knight isn't a great fit. People need to understand that being a great fit goes beyond just your skill set. His approach to the game mentally and style wise just didn't and won't ever fit with what we need next to the core trio going forward.

The Lakers' pick was a much better fit...

[Prez]

Brandon Knight isn't a great fit. People need to understand that being a great fit goes beyond just your skill set. His approach to the game mentally and style wise just didn't and won't ever fit with what we need next to the core trio going forward.

The Lakers' pick was a much better fit...

This I can agree with.

[Baddy Chuck]

Knight is a perfect fit for the Middleton / Freak / Parker

Nah.

[Spens1]

Can anyone speak on why Jabari barely takes any 3's? He seems like a better shooter than someone who took 35 all of last year.

He was literally instructed by Kidd not to shoot 3s, much like Giannis was in his 2nd year. Something about developing their inside games. He said he's done with that and will let them loose next year.

I think people are going to be surprised at good a shooter Jabari ends up being. Not only was he a 20 year old coming off an ACL injury but he was told by his coach not to shoot from range. But he has great form and touch on his shot and shooting was never really a problem in high school or college for him, he'll be good going forward.

then jason kidd is clearly not fit to be an nba coach in the modern game since you need to be able to shoot the 3 (even if he couldn't for most of his career)

[Duke4life831]

If I'm the Bucks I think I just ride and die with Henson and Plumlee getting the main minutes at the 5 with Thon probably getting some scrap minutes there. Plumlee and Henson both do what the Bucks need from their 5, protect the rim, defend PnR and rebound. Then offensively just set screens, catch some lob passes and just get out of Giannis and Paker's way. Monroe just doesn't fit, he needs the ball and his best asset is scoring. I think they should keep trying to trade him to get another guard or wing that can spread the floor

[Duke4life831]

Can anyone speak on why Jabari barely takes any 3's? He seems like a better shooter than someone who took 35 all of last year.

He was literally instructed by Kidd not to shoot 3s, much like Giannis was in his 2nd year. Something about developing their inside games. He said he's done with that and will let them loose next year.

I think people are going to be surprised at good a shooter Jabari ends up being. Not only was he a 20 year old coming off an ACL injury but he was told by his coach not to shoot from range. But he has great form and touch on his shot and shooting was never really a problem in high school or college for him, he'll be good going forward.

then jason kidd is clearly not fit to be an nba coach in the modern game since you need to be able to shoot the 3 (even if he couldn't for most of his career)

I don't think it was all that dumb of a move. If the Bucks were looked at as contenders last year than ya I would say it was dumb. But they're clearly a young team on the rise that aren't contending just yet. One of Parker's weaknesses in high school and Duke was getting by his man in the half court. He struggled at it and because of that settled a lot for step back mid range jumpers. Now blowing by his defenders in the half court is one of his strengths. I think Kidd decided to play the long hand and try to develop his guys so when they're 23-24 are much better players. Kinda like in college where Calipari basically told KAT not to take 3s or perimeter jump shots and work on his low post game. I think that turned out very well for KAT having a year of games focusing on a weaker part of his game

[Prez]

Can anyone speak on why Jabari barely takes any 3's? He seems like a better shooter than someone who took 35 all of last year.

He was literally instructed by Kidd not to shoot 3s, much like Giannis was in his 2nd year. Something about developing their inside games. He said he's done with that and will let them loose next year.

I think people are going to be surprised at good a shooter Jabari ends up being. Not only was he a 20 year old coming off an ACL injury but he was told by his coach not to shoot from range. But he has great form and touch on his shot and shooting was never really a problem in high school or college for him, he'll be good going forward.

then jason kidd is clearly not fit to be an nba coach in the modern game since you need to be able to shoot the 3 (even if he couldn't for most of his career)

I'm torn, one on hand it did delay their shooting development, but on the other hand there's been a massive improvement in both of their development as inside players. Jabari is turning into a monster finisher around the basket, and Giannis has made huge strides in his handles, footwork in the paint, post game, etc. Forcing them to develop their attacking game early on will prove to be beneficial.

They're going to improve as jumpshooters in time imo, both have good form and are relentless workers, they'll get there. Jabari I'm almost 100% confident will, Giannis less sure but he won't be a liability or anything, and at PF it won't be that huge a deal anyways.

[MrBigShot]

Knight is a perfect fit for the Middleton / Freak / Parker

Nah.

Why? He can defend his position & he's a good spot up shooter. Knight isn't a great decision maker, but Giannis can be the primary ball handler and playmaker.

Had you guys retained Knight (who's contract doesn't look bad at all under this cap) I think you would be better off for it at the moment. I get that Knight makes some bonehead plays every now and then, but he's a high character guy with a good motor who can be effective in the right circumstances. Certainly far better than MCW as a player.

[Baddy Chuck]

Knight is a perfect fit for the Middleton / Freak / Parker

Nah.

Why? He can defend his position & he's a good spot up shooter. Knight isn't a great decision maker, but Giannis can be the primary ball handler and playmaker.

Had you guys retained Knight (who's contract doesn't look bad at all under this cap) I think you would be better off for it at the moment. I get that Knight makes some bonehead plays every now and then, but he can be effective in the right circumstances.

I think he has skills that could be used, especially more than a guy like MCW, but "prefect fit"? Nah. He's not even the most "perfect fit" point guard on his team.

[Prez]

Knight is a perfect fit for the Middleton / Freak / Parker

Nah.

Why? He can defend his position & he's a good spot up shooter. Knight isn't a great decision maker, but Giannis can be the primary ball handler and playmaker.

Had you guys retained Knight (who's contract doesn't look bad at all under this cap) I think you would be better off for it at the moment. I get that Knight makes some bonehead plays every now and then, but he's a high character guy with a good motor who can be effective in the right circumstances. Certainly far better than MCW as a player.

The problem with this thought process is that you're assuming Knight would be okay with this, which there is zero reason to believe that would be the case. He's an incredibly delusional, low IQ player who insists he's a point guard when he's not. This goes back to my point of "fit" going beyond just skillset. You have to factor in the mentality of the players you bring in, and Knight's doesn't mesh with our core, like at all.

In any case, we got a guy who fits way better than either Knight or MCW, so all of this doesn't really matter. Only thing that really matters at this point is dumping Monroe and finding a backup SF to balance out the roster.

[MrBigShot]

Nah.

Why? He can defend his position & he's a good spot up shooter. Knight isn't a great decision maker, but Giannis can be the primary ball handler and playmaker.

Had you guys retained Knight (who's contract doesn't look bad at all under this cap) I think you would be better off for it at the moment. I get that Knight makes some bonehead plays every now and then, but he's a high character guy with a good motor who can be effective in the right circumstances. Certainly far better than MCW as a player.

The problem with this thought process is that you're assuming Knight would be okay with this, which there is zero reason to believe that would be the case. He's an incredibly delusional, low IQ player who insists he's a point guard when he's not. This goes back to my point of "fit" going beyond just skillset. You have to factor in the mentality of the players you bring in, and Knight's doesn't mesh with our core, like at all.

In any case, we got a guy who fits way better than either Knight or MCW, so all of this doesn't really matter. Only thing that really matters at this point is dumping Monroe and finding a backup SF to balance out the roster.

As someone who watched nearly all of his games & a bunch of interviews for 2 years while he was a piston I absolutely think he would be ok with it. From an intangibles perspective Knight is great. Confident, hard working, competitive, high motor/effort all the time and practically no ego.

While he was here he also insisted he was a PG repeatedly. I attribute that to overconfidence and belief in himself; was drafted as a PG, you can't expect any player to simply concede that they will never fix their weaknesses, even if it's a long shot that they do. You have to have tremendous belief in yourself to make it to this level in the first place. Obviously we know that he's not a PG, his decision making sucks, and his basketball IQ is not his strong suit. But do I believe if asked to play defense, space the floor and minimize his ball handling he would agree? Absolutely. Ego or willingness to be coached has never been an issue for him, and he'd still get plenty of scoring opportunities on open looks & transition opportunities.

In any case, I'll be rooting for you guys to make the playoffs.

[TinmanZBoy]

the biggest disappointment last season, I had them top 4 in the east before the season...