Dwyane Wade Appreciation Thread

[KingDavid]

Lots of information on that website. I see that by 35, Kobe had played over 45,000 minutes. Next year, Wade will have played barely over 30,000. All the other guys on the lists that you shared have considerably lower minutes played as well. I'm not saying this is definitely why the drop offs happen, but I find it interesting that with all the analytics people want to use these days for their own agendas, they have issues actually being analytical.

Also MJ shouldn't be in the conversation since he was 38 when he played again, but either way he was classified as SF when he came back so he wouldn't have made it to your list no matter what.

How many of them had their Mcl removed in college?

This has zero to do with the argument that was presented which was essentially "age age age age age". Injury history is actually a valid theory. Questions around how Wade's knee will hold up would be the real issue. If it wasn't for that and he still had the same minutes played, I'd be much more sure to say he'll be reasonably efficient for the next 2 season. I think the closest situation in which a star player has played so few minutes is Grant Hill, and he surged for a couple of years (in regards to his own production) after 35.

The rest of your post also doesn't seem to address what was originally being talked about so I skipped it.

Injuries come with age. Injury history goes hand in hand with age. Those little nagging sores that you can play through in your 20s become reasons for multiple pain killers in your mid 30s and are why you can't move like you once did.

I'm quite surprised that injury wasn't taken into consideration in this conversation, but it is one of the first things that come to mind for me since I'm a medical professional.

I meant to say "..great LEAPER...most damage comes from landing...", to further my point but using swype can completely suck sometimes.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Is this the Wade Appreciation Thread or the Riley Ran Over My Dog Thread?

Here's a game from 2007, just before he dislocated his shoulder.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vnqx66eWwI[/youtube]

Still think this was the best version of Wade, even better than the 08-09 one, his shooting motion was more fluid and I think he didn't really need the extra muscle.

[insfo]

Is this the Wade Appreciation Thread or the Riley Ran Over My Dog Thread?

Here's a game from 2007, just before he dislocated his shoulder.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vnqx66eWwI[/youtube]

Still think this was the best version of Wade, even better than the 08-09 one, his shooting motion was more fluid and I think he didn't really need the extra muscle.

It could also actually be the Your dog is lucky it got ran over by Riley thread

[HeatFanDan]

I would bet a million dollars (if I had it) that you were not a "Heat fan" prior to 2010. That would explain why you're so quick to throw Riles under the bus. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that ALL of the people siding with Wade on this whole thing are "newer" Heat fans.

I guess I'm siding with Wade more than Riley for the reasons I gave before - all good ones. I've reached the conclusion that Riley decided to dump Wade so he could rush the team rebuild. He lost Durant and realized the team had no future championship possibilities as it was constructed.

Do you really want to bet a million dollars that all of us are Heat fans since 2010? I mean, I've seen a lot of games in the Miami Arena, good ones and crappy ones. As for Pat Riley, I was his fan when he was the Laker's head coach. Riley's never been known to have even a smidgen of good heartedness. He's a competitor, for better or worse (usually better). You might be the blind one here, so you may want to adjust your statement.

Calm your tits, gom. The posters I was alluding to know who they are. And no, I'm not going to "adjust my statement". Y'all trying to paint me as some Wade hater because I'm defending Riles against unfair slander is downright laughable. Just so you know, before I got perma-banned from the official Heat forum, I was voted "biggest Wade homer" over there. True story.

[dancing2thabeet]

Is this the Wade Appreciation Thread or the Riley Ran Over My Dog Thread?

Here's a game from 2007, just before he dislocated his shoulder.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vnqx66eWwI[/youtube]

Still think this was the best version of Wade, even better than the 08-09 one, his shooting motion was more fluid and I think he didn't really need the extra muscle.

Puts things into perspective ... His best version was almost 10 years ago.

[DayofMourning]

Is this the Wade Appreciation Thread or the Riley Ran Over My Dog Thread?

Here's a game from 2007, just before he dislocated his shoulder.

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vnqx66eWwI[/youtube]

Still think this was the best version of Wade, even better than the 08-09 one, his shooting motion was more fluid and I think he didn't really need the extra muscle.

I can say strongly, without a shadow of a doubt, that Wade was the best player in the NBA at points in his career. So fluid, athletic, intelligent, etc. Just amazing.

I also agree that the added weight and muscle isn't necessarily a benefit to some players. I've noticed a lot of players lose their shot fluidity as they bulk up, Zo included.

[HeatFanDan]

Is this the Wade Appreciation Thread or the Riley Ran Over My Dog Thread?

Here's a game from 2007, just before he dislocated his shoulder.

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vnqx66eWwI[/youtube]

Still think this was the best version of Wade, even better than the 08-09 one, his shooting motion was more fluid and I think he didn't really need the extra muscle.

I can say strongly, without a shadow of a doubt, that Wade was the best player in the NBA at points in his career. So fluid, athletic, intelligent, etc. Just amazing.

I also agree that the added weight and muscle isn't necessarily a benefit to some players. I've noticed a lot of players lose their shot fluidity as they bulk up, Zo included.

Yeah, you could definitely see evidence of that in the mechanics of Wade's jumpshot post-2009. He all but abandoned that off-glass jumper that was so money for him circa 2004-2006.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I can say strongly, without a shadow of a doubt, that Wade was the best player in the NBA at points in his career. So fluid, athletic, intelligent, etc. Just amazing.

From 2006 til he injured his shoulder, I'd say he was the best player in the NBA. People didn't know yet in the 05-06 season because they thought Shaq was still "Shaq" (he wasn't anymore), and overrated Kobe because "OMG 35 points per game! (nevermind the meh efficiency), and after the Finals, the Heat underwhelmed in the regular season thanks to Shaq's continued decline and other guys like GP, Posey and J-Will also missing time due to injury, even though Wade was playing the best of his career.

I think in 08-09 and 09-10, LeBron was consistently better, but Wade on any given night could outplay him. And I definitely would have trusted him more in the postseason.

I also agree that the added weight and muscle isn't necessarily a benefit to some players. I've noticed a lot of players lose their shot fluidity as they bulk up, Zo included.

Zo's a great example, you can see it just by tracking his free throw percentage. High percentage shooter as a skinny kid in Charlotte (relatively anyways), then bulks up when he hits Miami and it plummets into the 60's. He finally got used to his body in the 99-00 season, got over 70%, then the kidney thing happened and everything changed.

I still think Shaq would have been even MORE dominant if he stayed in the shape he was in, in Orlando. I've never seen bulk as that important, and actually can't think of a lot of players that really added it and improved significantly in the NBA. I guess Bosh to a certain extent when he bulked up for the 09-10 season, but he wound up injured, and lost the weight when he came to Miami.

[DayofMourning]

Yeah, you could definitely see evidence of that in the mechanics of Wade's jumpshot post-2009. He all but abandoned that off-glass jumper that was so money for him circa 2004-2006.

I would think that the players would take a step back and look at what worked best for them, but I guess they're making plans on how to improve their game, and can overlook what has made them so successful. That bank shot was his bread and butter, and he started using it less and less.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Yeah, you could definitely see evidence of that in the mechanics of Wade's jumpshot post-2009. He all but abandoned that off-glass jumper that was so money for him circa 2004-2006.

I would think that the players would take a step back and look at what worked best for them, but I guess they're making plans on how to improve their game, and can overlook what has made them so successful. That bank shot was his bread and butter, and he started using it less and less.

I love Wade to death, but there's a reason he came back more athletic and explosive in 08 than at any other point in his career, AND somehow magically put on 20 pounds of muscle (not easy to do). He definitely had some "help". But I think way more guys do than we think of anyways, its just more obvious in Wade's case.

The thing is, a lot of people take performance enhancers not to gain a bunch of muscle, but just to come back quicker from injury, and that's why I think it would be better if the league reexamined why they're outlawed at some point, especially since you know so many do it without getting caught anyways. I just think in Wade's case, he decided to put on muscle as well, and it probably wasn't worth it. Who knows, maybe Zo got in his ear about that.

[DayofMourning]

From 2006 til he injured his shoulder, I'd say he was the best player in the NBA. People didn't know yet in the 05-06 season because they thought Shaq was still "Shaq" (he wasn't anymore), and overrated Kobe because "OMG 35 points per game! (nevermind the meh efficiency), and after the Finals, the Heat underwhelmed in the regular season thanks to Shaq's continued decline and other guys like GP, Posey and J-Will also missing time due to injury, even though Wade was playing the best of his career.

I think in 08-09 and 09-10, LeBron was consistently better, but Wade on any given night could outplay him. And I definitely would have trusted him more in the postseason.

That's why it hurt so much as a fan to see him so injured. He missed huge chunks of prime time career with his injuries. As for Lebron, the one thing he has always had is consistency and health. He's pretty much a modern day iron man. That might be his most impressive feat as a player.

Zo's a great example, you can see it just by tracking his free throw percentage. High percentage shooter as a skinny kid in Charlotte (relatively anyways), then bulks up when he hits Miami and it plummets into the 60's. He finally got used to his body in the 99-00 season, got over 70%, then the kidney thing happened and everything changed.

I still think Shaq would have been even MORE dominant if he stayed in the shape he was in, in Orlando. I've never seen bulk as that important, and actually can't think of a lot of players that really added it and improved significantly in the NBA. I guess Bosh to a certain extent when he bulked up for the 09-10 season, but he wound up injured, and lost the weight when he came to Miami.

I just referred to Shaq as an example in the other thread. Shaq as a Magic was a phenomenal player. Right at the top of best I've seen. I remember one game he had against the Clippers or somebody, where he had 20+ points, 20+ rebounds, and 15+ blocks. Just crazy stuff. He had a lot more bounce to his step and was much more fluid as an athlete. After going to LA and then Miami, he just started talking bulk, bulk, bulk and his game went to ****. Shaq's an idiot.

[DayofMourning]

Yeah, you could definitely see evidence of that in the mechanics of Wade's jumpshot post-2009. He all but abandoned that off-glass jumper that was so money for him circa 2004-2006.

I would think that the players would take a step back and look at what worked best for them, but I guess they're making plans on how to improve their game, and can overlook what has made them so successful. That bank shot was his bread and butter, and he started using it less and less.

I love Wade to death, but there's a reason he came back more athletic and explosive in 08 than at any other point in his career, AND somehow magically put on 20 pounds of muscle (not easy to do). He definitely had some "help". But I think way more guys do than we think of anyways, its just more obvious in Wade's case.

The thing is, a lot of people take performance enhancers not to gain a bunch of muscle, but just to come back quicker from injury, and that's why I think it would be better if the league reexamined why they're outlawed at some point, especially since you know so many do it without getting caught anyways. I just think in Wade's case, he decided to put on muscle as well, and it probably wasn't worth it. Who knows, maybe Zo got in his ear about that.

I actually would think that HGH, or whatever is being used to stimulate growth and repair, should be allowable if proven effective, to get guys back on the court. I don't think its an unfair advantage at that point. Its unfair to the player and fan if the injury bug bites and screws the quality of their career big time.

[HeatFanDan]

Yeah, you could definitely see evidence of that in the mechanics of Wade's jumpshot post-2009. He all but abandoned that off-glass jumper that was so money for him circa 2004-2006.

I would think that the players would take a step back and look at what worked best for them, but I guess they're making plans on how to improve their game, and can overlook what has made them so successful. That bank shot was his bread and butter, and he started using it less and less.

It seems like professional sports in general kinda push athletes into the weight room. It's just part of the sports culture of bigger, stronger, faster. I mean, I understand it for NFL players, but finesse is extremely important to an NBA player's game.

Then again, there's always the other side of the coin. A guy like Scottie Pippen, for example. His game really blossomed when he got ripped. Karl Malone too. Dude's arms were like the size of my legs. lol

[eddieheatfan]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chicagoinc/ct-siohvaughn-wade-autobiography-0720-chicago-inc-20160720-story.html

[jagz]

If Pat let Wade leave because he wants to win now then his moves are even dumber than I initially thought.

I don't think the next few off seasons bode any better than the last 3 poor ones did, but I'm curious to see the excuses he will get.

Riley's sense of perspective is distorted by the fact that the Heat play in the East. The Mavs understand that there's no downside in paying Dirk because they're not coming close to winning anything for a while, so they preserve the franchise's long-term appeal by taking care of its face.

But, the Eastern Conference reminds me of Karate Kid III when they didn't even bother pretending anymore that Daniel-San didn't suck at karate, and so he only had to win one match to win the tournament. That's the situation LeBron and co. are in for basically the rest of his career-- free pass to the Finals and all the legacy points that are racked up along with it (one of several reasons I won't ever entertain MJ comparisons).

However, that's a seductive scenario for Riley, because if you can somehow upset the Cavs, you could be in the Finals again. And that's actually sound reasoning in theory. I believe the Heat had a one-year window to do the unfathomable if they could have gotten to the ECFs, because Whiteside, Deng and JJ's deals were so cheap. They had a great chance with Bosh and Whiteside, a chance with just Whiteside and even a slight chance with neither, just because it was a good match-up.

Before the Finals, I would have defined just getting there as "doing the unfathomable" but after seeing that series, with Steph obviously limping, who knows what could have happened? (Heat matched up with GS well too). But, to have any chance to beat LeBron then or in the future, let alone doing an even more unfathomable thing, there is one component you absolutely have to have: Dwyane Wade.

Looking to the future, Riley's best chance to restore sheen to the Heat is by pulling off a massive trade, unless he somehow drafts a franchise player. It will take success to rebuild the brand, and I think people are seriously underestimating how much the brand has taken a hit (which matters far more than South Beach, weather and no taxes). Maybe you can begin an era of signing a string of mercenary free agents (like LeBron), who will play out their max deals and then leave, but the basis for being able to expect organizational loyalty is completely gone for now.

[DayofMourning]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chicagoinc/ct-siohvaughn-wade-autobiography-0720-chicago-inc-20160720-story.html

Very dramatic. Comments without context. Instead of sitting on the streets of Chicago looking strung out and hollering for everyone to hear you, you should try other methods of good parenting.

[eddieheatfan]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chicagoinc/ct-siohvaughn-wade-autobiography-0720-chicago-inc-20160720-story.html

Very dramatic. Comments without context. Instead of sitting on the streets of Chicago looking strung out and hollering for everyone to hear you, you should try other methods of good parenting.

you are correct dear mod

[heat4life]

If Pat let Wade leave because he wants to win now then his moves are even dumber than I initially thought.

I don't think the next few off seasons bode any better than the last 3 poor ones did, but I'm curious to see the excuses he will get.

Riley's sense of perspective is distorted by the fact that the Heat play in the East. The Mavs understand that there's no downside in paying Dirk because they're not coming close to winning anything for a while, so they preserve the franchise's long-term appeal by taking care of its face.

You are pushing it. Mavs resigned Dirk over and over because Dirk wanted to come back to Dallas every time and he made it work. As a matter of fact, Riley's vision with Wade was to do something similar to what the Mavs have done with Dirk. Dirk just opted out of a contract that averaged $8mil per season for 2yrs at age 36-37. Dirk wanted to provide the team flexibility to sign players to help him win. Once Cuban signed players this off-season, the Mavs gave Dirk a $20 mil contract with opt-outs for the next two seasons.

Dirk's contracts

Nowitzki, 37, would have made $8.7 million next season if he opted to complete his three-year contract. He could take a lower salary to give the Mavs more flexibility this summer.

Nowitzki, the sixth-leading scorer in NBA history, has said that it would be special for him to join Kobe Bryant as the only players to have a 20-year career with only one franchise. That would require Nowitzki to play two more seasons with the Mavericks.

Nowitzki reiterated Monday that he is committed to remaining with the Mavs for the rest of his career, saying that decision was essentially made when Dallas won the championship in 2011.

Link

Again, Wade is within his rights to accept or decline such overtures. I respect that and he made is choice just like Riley made the choice of wanting to maintain flexibility and setting a price. That is just business. What is sad is that I feel this ending could've been avoided with better communication on both sides, mostly a better selling job from Riley. Ego's got in the way of what could've been a great partnership during the dawn years of Wade's career.

[Hallstar]

Or maybe Wade realised that like Dirk, taking paycuts didn't mean jack, and and no paycut Kobe has 5 rings and no paycut Lebron just picked up number 3.

Talking about building through FA is just the smart way of "I won't pay you your worth". If every year you need cap space, dude was never gonna get his money. You can get cap space when deals expire, but if you just signed everybody else to 5 year deals, of course the good ole boy Wade gotta be responsible for "flexibility".

Who has Dallas gotten since they blew up the team after 2011 anyway? Were the paycuts worth it? Let's not even get into it that Dirk wasn't taking paycuts in his prime.

[heat4life]

Or maybe Wade realised that like Dirk, taking paycuts didn't mean jack, and and no paycut Kobe has 5 rings and no paycut Lebron just picked up number 3.

Talking about building through FA is just the smart way of "I won't pay you your worth". If every year you need cap space, dude was never gonna get his money. You can get cap space when deals expire, but if you just signed everybody else to 5 year deals, of course the good ole boy Wade gotta be responsible for "flexibility".

Who has Dallas gotten since they blew up the team after 2011 anyway? Were the paycuts worth it? Let's not even get into it that Dirk wasn't taking paycuts in his prime.

That is my point. Wade is within his rights to not accept such arrangements. He chose to leave. It's his life, his money. The part that is troubling is the fans not understanding that it was all business. Could it have been avoided? I think so, with open communication, trust and a common vision that includes compromising. Ego's on both sides got in the way which is why fans are now unhappy with the end results.

Like with everything else in life, it just goes on. We'll cheer for the Miami Heat, we will cheer for Wade from a far (unless he is playing the Heat) and you move on to the next thing. Finger pointing just give you something to do and the illusion of feeling better but it only creates resentment which will only prolong your sadness. The truth is that in this type of cases, like divorce, the blame falls on both sides. It takes two to make a relationship work. Wade has accepted this and so has Riley. That is the only way to move on.