Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban)

Moderators: Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, MoneyTalks41890, HartfordWhalers, Texas Chuck, BullyKing, Andre Roberstan, loserX, Trader_Joe

Grade the Miami offseason

A+
0
No votes
A
1
2%
A-
2
4%
B+
2
4%
B
5
9%
B-
3
5%
C+
11
20%
C
11
20%
D
15
27%
F
6
11%
 
Total votes: 56

HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,317
And1: 20,911
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#1 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:08 pm

Miami Offseason in Review
Hartfordwhalers wrote:Hartfordwhalers Review

Key Losses:
Wade
Deng
Joe Johnson

A few words need to be said on losing Wade. Wade sacrificed salary to make the Heat happen with Lebron. But then he sacrificed salary to help build a team when Lebron left. In some fundamental way, it feels like Miami didn't do him fully right and make him whole for all the lost money. It might be a long term dent in the Miami takes care of their guys mantra that somehow seems to play into guys like Udoh making questionable financial choices that help the team. On the other hand, Miami should be able to do a lot better than a 20-25m Wade next offseason. Miami still offered up to 20m and Wade isn't starving in the Latrell Sprewell sense. Matching Deng at those numbers and years shouldn't be a serious option. And 1 year at 10m for Joe Johnson sounds fine but the second year and cutting into next year's room wouldn't be something I would feel good about either as Miami.

Losses:
Gerald Green
Amar'e Stoudemire
Dorell Wright

It is time to let the older vets go and try younger guys here.

Draft:
None

And the cash to buy a 2nd rounder was all spent as well

Trades:
Cash and a New Orleans Pelicans second-rounder back to the Pelicans for Luke Babbitt.

Not really sure the thinking here, but its a low risk buy low.

Free Agency:
Hassan Whiteside 4/98.4
Tyler Johnson 4/50 Arenas contract matched
Wayne Ellington 2/12.3 (second year ung)
Derrick Williams 4.6m
James Johnson 4m
Udonis Haslem 4m
Willie Reed 2/2.1m (po in 2nd year)
Mostly ung min deals to Rodney McGruder 3 years/Stefan Jankovic 2 years/Okaro White 2 years

So, the signings did 2 things. Kept Whiteside and Tyler Johnson. Kept all flexibility for next year. Maxing Whiteside was a no brainer for me, and matching Johnson a good call as well. After that, there wasn't a difference maker available. The team has enough talent to not be in the cellar and be refused free agent meetings in a year. But you win in the NBA with stars, and there is no 'last season to get wins with Wade' type thing going on, so I think they made the best plan possible and executed it well.

Current Depth Chart: (as usual this is a rough draft taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Goran Dragic, Briante Weber
SG: Tyler Johnson, Wayne Ellington, Rodney McGruder
SF: Justise Winslow, Josh Richardson, Luke Babbitt, Okaro White
PF: Chris Bosh, Derrick Williams, James Johnson, Josh McRoberts, Stefan Jankovic
C: Hassan Whiteside, Willie Reed, Udonis Haslem

Needs: Bosh to recover entirely, or medically retire and come off the cap before next season. And either way, a big fa win in 2017.

Additional Thoughts: Watch for a McRoberts trade at the deadline. Given his player option, I could see Miami wanting cap certainty. Or he could be playing so well they get to add young assets for him. But after not trading him to give Wade an extra 10m, I wouldn;t be surprised if he then got traded.

Projected Win/Loss: 35-47 I'm probably doing round numbers on these, as point estimates are tough and I'm more a wing it guy. If you are expecting all of these to add up right at the end I will disappoint. Bosh is clearly the wildcard.

Off-Season Grade: A For a step back offseason, I think it was handled near perfect.



bondom34 wrote:bondom34 Review
Needs:
Bench depth mostly everywhere, but especially to me at the PF. With Bosh's situation not totally known, it is a possible major blow to the team. As well a better set of backup guards would really help to give Dragic and Johnson a little rest when needed.

Additional Thoughts:
It's going to be a weird season in Miami post-Wade. I never thought I'd see him leave, yet here we are and it will be interesting going forward to see what the franchise does with the face of the team for the last decade gone. I never count Riley out for a big aggressive move, but if things start to go haywire does he pull the plug and start selling off vets? Or if they start hot does he try to go for a trade to bring in a bigger piece?

Projected Win/Loss:
35-47

With the loss of depth and really no good wing players I think this is a step back season for Miami. Unless Bosh shows he's back to old form it will be tough to make the playoffs.

Off-Season Grade:
C-


dbrandon wrote:dbrandon Review
Key Losses:
Wade
Deng
Joe Johnson

Losing Wade hurts, a lot. It goes against the whole "we take care of our guys" ethos that Riley has espoused (he's never been unwilling to do the clear-eyed, pragmatic thing when it needs to be done, but the narrative is on his side). He's still a productive player at his age, even if his knees are a ticking time bomb. Personally, I think it's probably the wise move to draw a line in the sand, even if it sucks. The Godfather with cap space or the capability to create it with young guys on good contracts...that's dangerous. Miami's better set up for the long-term without Wade even if it hurts in the short-term.

Deng and Johnson hurt too, but not as badly. Both are good players, but they're on the downslope of their careers. Time to start building up the young core again.

Losses:
Gerald Green
Amar'e Stoudemire
Dorell Wright

Yeah, nothing too bad here.

Draft:
None

I really don't like giving up 2 picks for Dragic in retrospect, but ehhhhh...Miami's not been huge on the draft in several years now, and they've done well with value signings and late picks. As an OKC fan, I love draft picks, but it doesn't kill the Heat cause they're in Miami.

Trades:
Cash and a New Orleans Pelicans second-rounder back to the Pelicans for Luke Babbitt.

Sure, I guess. He's a shooter.

Free Agency:
Hassan Whiteside 4/98.4
Tyler Johnson 4/50 Arenas contract matched
Wayne Ellington 2/12.3 (second year ung)
Derrick Williams 4.6m
James Johnson 4m
Udonis Haslem 4m
Willie Reed 2/2.1m (po in 2nd year)
Mostly ung min deals to Rodney McGruder 3 years/Stefan Jankovic 2 years/Okaro White 2 years

I like all of this. Ellington is eh, but Johnson and Whiteside are worth keeping around. James Johnson is one of my favorite journeymen, and Williams should be productive. Willie Reed is an excellent value pickup. The last couple of min deals I have no idea.

Current Depth Chart: (as usual this is a rough draft taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Goran Dragic, Briante Weber
SG: Tyler Johnson, Wayne Ellington, Rodney McGruder
SF: Justise Winslow, Josh Richardson, Luke Babbitt, Okaro White
PF: Chris Bosh, Derrick Williams, James Johnson, Josh McRoberts, Stefan Jankovic
C: Hassan Whiteside, Willie Reed, Udonis Haslem

Needs:
If Bosh can play, they need him. Badly. If he can't, a medical retirement would open up cap space, and we've already seen what Riley can do when you give him that. They've got a good enough team to be 2017 FA players.

I'd look to upgrade backup SG and backup PG for sure. Other than that, I'd keep my powder dry and wait for next offseason.

Additional Thoughts:
McRoberts is very likely to move. I'd also put Dragic as a possibility, though less so than before Wade's departure.

Projected Win/Loss: I'll say they win 40. Spo gets underrated as a coach, but the East is still getting stronger, and I'd put pretty good odds on Bosh coming back.

Off-Season Grade: A-. Losing Wade obviously hurts the on-court product, but I think they nailed pretty much everything else.


caliban wrote:caliban Review
Intro:

The overall goal for the Heat this summer (outside of the Durant pipedream) was to stay as competitive as possible in 16-17 while holding off on long term contracts until the next free agency class is on the table. This is also the lens I’ll evaluate the Heat’s offseason trough. The 2017 class is stronger on talent and in combination with less available cap space around the association this does look like the right road to walk for a team in the Heat’s situation (cap crunch, old vets on their later legs), not only in terms of where the team stands today but also in maximising the chances of improvements in the future. These terms gave the Heat two main objects to achieve going in to this summer, 1) no 2 year or longer contracts while staying as competitive as possible in 16-17 for attractiveness to the upcoming FA-class and 2) as always, try to not lose and identify the right players going forward while keeping as much flexibility as conceivable. No doubt this was a tall task, especially in the overheated market of 2016. Let’s see how Riley and Andy did trough this lens.

Key Losses:

Wade: Losing The franchise hero, how can you not go full emo when the reason you fell in love with the game just walked out the door? You can’t, so I’ll focus on Wade’s on court production and his current state as a contributing basketball player in the twilight of a fantastic HOF career.

The question I think needs to be answered is; ‘Is Wade’s production worth 2 years, $47.5 million at his point?’ Wade was a net negative during the 15/16 season, and numbers adjusted for opponents and teammate’s strength tells the same story and has done so for a while now, Wade's impact on the game is dwindling. Wade’s is still able to put up individual counting stats, they just do not help an average NBA team much at this point. Offensively this is mainly due to a steadily worse shooting percentage in combination with a decreasing capability to get to the line. The defence is also obviously not there anymore over 30 minutes of basketball and that is not someone you want to pay that size of a contract to.

But shot creation, there’s additional value in that and he was borderline fantastic in the playoffs!? Shot creation definitely has some underrated value especially in the playoffs and playoff shot making will always be Wade's everlasting legacy but even with the solid playoff run he had this year, the LINK on off numbers tells the same story as they did in the regular season and that story is negative. Wade does not have the efficiency to be a no1 or no2 usage player anymore, it happens to everyone and a contract I the one year 15M range would be preferable for player of Wade’s current grade of impact. Heat wants to play team ball from start to finish; Wade wants to be the man in the 4th. Heat wants to play high pace ball; Wade wants to slow it down. For the contract Wade found acceptable it was time for the Heat to move on, so the Heat moved on.

Option A) Keep Wade with his dubious production along with a massive contract; No bunting => significantly less chance at a whale next summer due to the same cap crunch predicament the team was in this summer. Even worse depth pieces now to strive for somewhat competitiveness. Still couldn’t keep Deng, J. Johnson and would have to dump McRoberts as well.

Option B) Push Wade away as smoothly as possible (it was not smooth at all) and upsetting most of the fan base while doing so while bunting this summer to improve the chances in the next FA-class + do what you can with the cap room left from Wade’s absence.

Got to say that Riley remained steady in achieving the overall goal stated in the intro for the off season and not even the fan hero seemed to make him blink while I do believe most GM’s would have buckled in a similar scenario. From an on court perspective I 100% think Option B was the right move for the Heat at this point. A cold move, but the right move. On the negative side I’d say that it could and should have been going down much smoother (if pushing a player of Wade’s stature and persona ever can be friction free), and also move along at a faster pace. It did drag a day or two too long which possibly might have made the Heat miss on someone better of the short term pieces they ended up with, even though I do have a hard time keying in on which player willing to take a small one year deal was off the table at this point in the FA-process.

Deng: Biggest loss in term of on court production. Loul didn’t really get going until Bosh went down and moved to the 4 which no doubt is his ideal position at this stage of his career. From that moment he was back to the plus minus stud he’s been his entire career. Can’t say enough good things about the guy but once that contract was offered there were just no chance of him coming back. He seemed to be an excellent teacher for the young guys, Deng will be missed on and off the court next season.

Joe Johnson: What a difference 24 games can makes. He looked completely done in Brooklyn and he sure got a nice return on that money from Utah. Well played by Johnson, and a two year contract offer from the Heat was never an option and nothing the organisation would consider. He helped the team win late in the regular season but I’d argue it had a stronger correlation with the move of Loul to the 4 that locked up a stale Wade/Bosh centric offence than the arrival of Johnson per se. Didn’t show up in the playoff where he’s legs once again looked about done, ultimately not a player to commit to in the Heat current state.

Losses:

Gerald Green: Started of the season alright with an on ball task on defence that he managed to pull off quite well. After a bizarre incident that ended with a hospital visit G. Green reverted to his old self. It was ugly.

Amar'e Stoudemire: That pick and roll defence. Managed to hold it together somewhat during the regular season when given time but Statue vs. Kemba in the Playoffs? O’boy, Spoelstra had to play Haslem over him for the Heat to survive.

Dorell Wright: Late season pick up. Did not play

Draft:

Owed pick because D. Wade, L. James & C. Bosh wanted a 6th year on their contracts in 2010. The price you have to pay.

Trades:

Cash and a New Orleans Pelicans second-rounder back to the Pelicans for Luke Babbitt.

Babbit has gotten 800 minutes a year over the last two seasons so this pickup likely is something that most shoulder shrug at and probably rightfully so. Riley said in the presser, and the numbers do somewhat support that it is possible that there might be an underutilised end of rotation player in Babbit especially considering his skillset and fit in contrast to the other 3-4’s on the roster in J. Winslow and J. Johnson who don’t have the dead eye long ball but can cover for Babbit defensively. Fills a need, solid fit & good price.

Free Agency:

Hassan Whiteside 4/98.4

There’s been a long debate on this site about whether or not Hassan was going to be worth his max contract. It still will be, but the naysayers slowly dwindled with every improvement he made and in the end the defence was better with him on the floor and he did finish at the top on Nylon Calculus Rim Protection Section. His pick and roll game with G. Dragic did take more time than ideal but it got there and it’s reasonable to think that there’s still some overall impact for Hassan to grow into given his still limited NBA experience. Sure there’s risk that Hassan doesn’t live up to the contract but it is a relatively small max and there’s no doubt to me that I’d rather see the Heat with Hassan on the books than without. And for that money I rather have Whiteside than...

Timofey Mozgov: 4 years, $64 million with Lakers
Al Horford: 4 years, $113 million with the Celtics
Joakim Noah: 4 years, $72 million with Knicks
Bismack Biyombo: 4 years, $72 million with Magic
Ian Mahinmi: 4 years, $64 million with the Wizards
Dwight Howard: 3 years, $70 million with Hawks

especially looking at the later years in some of the contracts handed out. Hassan was the no1 priority for the Heat at the start of free agency and the Heat kept him. Ideally you want him at say 20 per, but losing a talent like that is never an option and keeping him is a clear success compared to the alternative.

Tyler Johnson 4/50 Arenas contract matched

Who got that money? Outrageous! Let’s start with total sum of money, 12,5M per with an average starter salary of about 15-16M or so going forward. Has Johnson played ball at that level already? LINK Just about with a ,4 BPM and ,113 ws48, but there’s no reason that I can see to think that he will regress, as a matter of fact it’s more likely that he will improve and grow into a contract of 12,5M quite nicely.

But the structure will totally be hampering the Heat in two consecutive summers!? Definitely, this contract no doubt puts a big dent in the off season shopping budget and will hamper Riley quite a bit. Not good, but a renegotiation after the 3rd year is possible if the Heat operates under the tax and the structure does actually help the organisation next summer with it’s very low cap hold for the 2nd year. Let just say that there are a lot of eggs in the summer17 basket for the Heat.
Considering all this, I think it was the right choice to match, but barely, just barely. I’d rather see a team keeping their talent and figure it out as they go, than a team losing it without any return be that return in on court production and/or future trade.

Wayne Ellington 2/12.3 (second year ung)

A delay according to the goal, but Ellington does fit around the skillset of the current guards in G. Dragic, Richardson, Johnson & Weber. System defence and 3’s, while obviously not a needle mover. I’m okay with this.

Derrick Williams 4.6m.

A delay according to the goal, however Williams is not a good player and also a dubious fit in every aspect except possibly fast break basketball which the Heat must to be really committed to for this signing to make any sense at all. Spoelstra has worked borderline miracles on the defensive end with Beasley, Statue & Green to at least get them on the court and it looks like another season of Spo
earning that coaching pay check. It should be noted though that this is quite far into the FA and there not really a lost opportunity to sing someone else in Williams place.

James Johnson 4m

A delay according to the goal and I’ve always been a J. Johnson fan for some reason. James can take on the best opposing wings when Winslow sits and is definitely a PF in Spoelstra’s system, possibly even a 3rd string C, no joking. I’m mostly curious about the minute distribution between L. Jonson and D. Williams for the reason that stats always has hated Williams but pictured Johnson as a solid underutilised piece, and I’ve almost never seen Spoelstra disagree with these numbers. I like this signing even though it has little to no future upside outside of checking off the boxes for the Heat this off season as previously mentioned.

Udonis Haslem 4m

A make good deal to the soul of the franchise, between Haslem and Howard the rest of the roster will behave. I like it.

Willie Reed 2/2.1m (po in 2nd year)

Definitely would have been preferable to have a Team Option on the second year on this deal. I think Reed can contribute as a backup Center in the NBA and the organisation already has a relation with Reed after last year’s Summer League where the Nets snagged him in front of an at the time handcuffed Heat organisation. Brooklyn sure likes to go after them Heat gems, time to get their own scouting and development department going :wink:

Current Depth Chart:
PG: Goran Dragic, Briante Weber
SG: Josh Richardson , Tyler Johnson, Wayne Ellington
SF: Justise Winslow, James Johnson, Okaro White
PF: Chris Bosh, Derrick Williams, Josh McRoberts, Luke Babbitt
C: Hassan Whiteside, Willie Reed, Udonis Haslem

This is the rotation I see on opening night. If no Bosh, then substitute him with McRoberts. Tyler as the 3rd guard and 6th man, the Heat need him on the floor at all times Dragic takes a seat. Are the young guys ready to fly?

Needs:

1) While T. Johnson has shown some ability to initiate offense off the dribble and run the pick and roll with Whiteside, the team is way too Dragic dependent in terms of offensive creation => Need; shot creator on the perimeter. The best fit and most cost efficient solution is probably at back-up point-guard.

2)A healthy Bosh along with a new Amnesty clause in the next CBA if/when he goes down again or safety for the Tyler Johnson contract.

Additional Thoughts:

Between a rock (Lakers) and a hard place (Bucks).
Now we know that the Heat avoided the Lakers scenario with an over payment of a fallen star, but that doesn’t mean the Heat made it through the wood. The question the roster now has to answer is if they can avoid the Bucks scenario after they shredded too much veteran production and experience (in this case Wade, Deng, Johnson and only one could have been kept) without the young players being ready to shoulder the production and responsibility full time.

If the Heat made the right moves I think what the organisation is aiming- and hoping for is 80% of what Portland managed to pull off after L. Aldridge left them; the perceived star on the team leaving and most people writing them off as dead in the water. This is a difficult task to pull off for this roster but in a best case scenario, not an impossible one. We’ll see.

The backup plan is to roll out the tank after 30 or so games in a season where the organisation has the pick at hand. The reason why this isn’t the immediate option for Heat is best understood when looking at the history of the franchise as an indicator of what road previously has been the one to walk. The biggest factor for the organizational success has been free agents and/or impact player’s willingness to be traded to and play in Miami, for the Heat. This is by any mean not a given in the future but I think we can conclude after the latest free agencies that weather and income taxes isn’t enough, you at least need a somewhat competitive team to pitch as well. For the Heat, history has shown that option A is to compete 1st and 2nd and then you tank.

Projected Win/Loss:

I made a middle ground projection with half a Bosh for this write up. Whether he’s out or fully in it this season should on average be about 3-4 wins up or down accordingly. However, if he’s out, the rotation is rail thin without the Bosh and very susceptible for an injury and a tank is then possibly in sight.

7th seed. 42-43 wins

Image

Off-Season Grade:

Can a team who lost 2,5 starters with no adequate replacements have a good off season while simultaneously dealing with a possible career ending medical condition to the best and highest payed player on the roster? No, you can’t, but you can do the very best of the situation you’re in and I think the Heat did come close to that. Minus for missing on Durant, an empty hand is an empty hand. And also the Wade debacle for the reason that it was dragging out and possibly leading to the team missing on a better piece than what ended up on the roster.

B+
User avatar
Woody Allen
General Manager
Posts: 7,799
And1: 2,840
Joined: Aug 13, 2002
Location: Toronto

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#2 » by Woody Allen » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:07 pm

Definitely should have kept Wade at that price. He's easily the greatest player of the franchise and still a great player. I hate Wade but refusing to give him the 3rd year was disrespectful.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 92,249
And1: 97,972
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#3 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:34 pm

My first thought about Miami's off-season is a cautionary one for fans here. I see so many posters suggesting the stars on their team will want to take less to stay in their city. Yes some players have done it. Tim Duncan being exhibit A, B and C. We were told over and over by multiple Heat fans here that both Whiteside and Wade would gladly take less to stay together and allow them to keep/replace Deng/Johnson.

Well Whiteside made it clear he was taking the full max--as he should having not really gotten paid yet. And we saw that Wade didn't appreciate being taken for granted money-wise. As a Dirk fan, what just happened in Miami was my personal WCS. Luckily Cuban and Dirk have a great relationship and Cuban makes sure he and Dirk are on the same page and when they aren't, Dirk gets what Dirk wants.

Now that said, I agree with caliban that basketball-wise letting Wade go rather than give him a contract like Dirk just got was absolutely the right move. Miami still has a roster and a lack of assets that make trying to hit big in free agency next year the best path forward.

I liked most of the moves. Whiteside was necessary. Johnson worth matching, and they made good value signings around their core. Hard to project a record for them as Bosh is such a huge question mark, and the team as a whole, and Whiteside in particular played better with just one big on the floor.

I'd like to see Miami play Richardson, Johnson, and Winslow together with Dragic and Whiteside a bunch. I think potentially this is their best lineup. They can play super-fast which suits Dragic perfectly.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
User avatar
TMIMITW
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,868
And1: 1,258
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
       

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#4 » by TMIMITW » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:45 pm

The Miami offseason was definitely a rollercoaster,
I don't blame Miami or Wade, and I hate to see my favorite player in a f###ing Bulls jersey, but I am a #heatlifer so we will move forward.

The Core of Whiteside, Richardson, and Winslow will be great for years to come.
Not sure if I am sold on TJ yet...haven't seen him play enough
Bosh is the key, if he plays great, if he doesn't great for 2017
Dragic and Spo both have to show how good they really are they need to impress the league

Offseason is a C-, but bigger picture and in 2017 looking back on this offseason it will be re-graded to an A-
Kevin Durrant is the best WNBA player in the NBA!
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,082
And1: 15,343
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#5 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:57 pm

It cannot be said enough - I still cannot believe that Dwyane Wade is playing for Chicago next season.

Honestly it kind of reminds me of Dave Gettleman cutting Steve Smith from the Panthers.
chrbal
RealGM
Posts: 21,510
And1: 1,962
Joined: Mar 02, 2001
Contact:

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#6 » by chrbal » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:12 pm

PIstons fan, not a Heat fan.
I put C. Keeping Whiteside was necessary. Like it or leave it they botched the Wade situation. Tyler Johnson had to be kept, but they put themselves in a corner with that one. Hopefully he can stay healthy. Wayne Ellington is overpaid, even in the this market. I think its for the best though that the Heat (probably) aren't signing Waiters. Seems like a Ron Harper stepping in for Michael Jordan type move. And the Heat would've had to sign him for at least 4 years. I think that the Heat should have taken a chance on Jared Sullinger. Hes a good scorer for a big, solid rebounder. Maybe he can't start on the Heat, but it would've made a heck of a bench piece.

Willie Reed, Derrick Williams, Udonis Haslem, James Johnson signed or resigned and trading for Luke Babbit. My opionion, they are NBA players. Johnson plays hard, Williams can put up ok numbers. Babbit can shoot 3s and doesn't cost much.
loserX
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 45,496
And1: 26,048
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
       

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#7 » by loserX » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:45 pm

Best move: re-signing Whiteside, obviously. They took a chance on him last year, it paid off, and now he's back. How many guys have gone from a min contract to a max contract? It can't be many.

Worst move: letting the Wade departure get so ugly. I'm okay that the two decided to part ways, it may have been the right move for both...it just seems a shame that this is the second all-time Heat great to talk about feeling disrespected by Riley just this summer (remember LeBron's "secret motivation"?). Riley is old-school, and that's fine. Players these days may be more sensitive, and that's also fine. But Riley is going to find it harder to work his magic if he starts developing a tough rep with his own star players.

(And tbh for Riley to say "I wish I'd gotten more involved" after the fact felt disingenuous.)

Overall the Heat recovered about as well as they could. No picks to use, and hamstrung by the Bosh situation, once Wade was out they decided not to panic in FA. All they can do is hope Bosh comes back healthy and take it from there.
loserX
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 45,496
And1: 26,048
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
       

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#8 » by loserX » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:59 pm

(Side note: this first set of reviews was very thorough, well thought-out, and fair. Good omen, and I look forward to reading the next ones.)
User avatar
blind prophet
RealGM
Posts: 10,574
And1: 3,306
Joined: Dec 08, 2011
 

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#9 » by blind prophet » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:43 pm

I like the low risk potential reward in D. Williams and Waiters, but I'm not sure if I can trust Hassan at 4 year basically 100 million deal.

I'd like it much more with Wade still around culturally.

Hassan had some serious maturity and work ethic concerns early in his career, at least that was the word while he was in Sacramento, and bounced around for awhile.

Now he gets his pay day.

So I've got to say C for now on the grade.

I expect more clarity here after this upcoming year however. Put it as serious risk, potential great reward, not sold yet.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#10 » by bondom34 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:45 pm

Yeah Dion isn't bumping a C- up or down for me.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
brackdan70
RealGM
Posts: 17,756
And1: 12,479
Joined: Jul 15, 2013
Location: Ogden, UT
   

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#11 » by brackdan70 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:27 pm

Good keeping Whiteside, and I think long term its actually a plus losing Wade. will make moving forward easier and smoother I think.

probably a C+, but i voted F just for spite.
Jordan Walsh > Lonnie Walker
User avatar
Laimbeer
RealGM
Posts: 42,849
And1: 15,042
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Location: Cabin Creek
     

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#12 » by Laimbeer » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:32 pm

D. They let their franchise player go at a contract he's worth under this cap. Lost starting players, got virtually nothing as backfill. Retaining Whiteside was the one bright spot.
Comments to rationalize bad contracts -
1) It's less than the MLE
2) He can be traded later
3) It's only __% of the cap
4) The cap is going up
5) It's only __ years
6) He's a good mentor/locker room guy
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,317
And1: 20,911
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#13 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:15 pm

bondom34 wrote:Yeah Dion isn't bumping a C- up or down for me.


I had Dion as just another feather in a well executed offseason, until I saw that it has a PO on year 2. Now I dislike it.
User avatar
caliban
NBA TnT Forum: Expert Predictor
Posts: 1,696
And1: 3,376
Joined: Jan 25, 2012
Location: Melonia
Contact:

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#14 » by caliban » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:16 pm

Woody Allen wrote:Definitely should have kept Wade at that price. He's easily the greatest player of the franchise and still a great player. I hate Wade but refusing to give him the 3rd year was disrespectful.

How come you think Wade still is a great player when the team is better with him off the court?
20-21 apbrMetrics RMSE Team win projections winner. Three time RMSE runner up
RGM TnT board Team Win predictions winner
User avatar
caliban
NBA TnT Forum: Expert Predictor
Posts: 1,696
And1: 3,376
Joined: Jan 25, 2012
Location: Melonia
Contact:

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#15 » by caliban » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:33 pm

loserX wrote:Riley is old-school, and that's fine. Players these days may be more sensitive, and that's also fine. But Riley is going to find it harder to work his magic if he starts developing a tough rep with his own star players.
I don't think the players are more sensitive than yesterday. The fans might be. I think the top players are thinking; hm, it sure would be nice to be the man (on a competitive team) in Miami now when Wade is out.
(And tbh for Riley to say "I wish I'd gotten more involved" after the fact felt disingenuous.)
It not only felt disingenuous, it was very much so. Riley is extremely slick with the media, and after watching him doing his pressers through the years I've come to learn that the thing worth paying attention to is when he tells "a random story". That story is never ever random, and this time it was about how Bosh, Lebron and Wade had been greedy in wanting a 6th year on their contracts in 2010, and how that had cost the Heat valuable future picks, the one this year for example. Contracts the trio surely where going to opt out of. The sensmoral; Wade sacrificed but so did the Heat. There's always two sides to the story.
20-21 apbrMetrics RMSE Team win projections winner. Three time RMSE runner up
RGM TnT board Team Win predictions winner
User avatar
caliban
NBA TnT Forum: Expert Predictor
Posts: 1,696
And1: 3,376
Joined: Jan 25, 2012
Location: Melonia
Contact:

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#16 » by caliban » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:41 pm

Laimbeer wrote:D. They let their franchise player go at a contract he's worth under this cap.
Why do you think a player with a negative net rating is worth $23,750,000 per?
20-21 apbrMetrics RMSE Team win projections winner. Three time RMSE runner up
RGM TnT board Team Win predictions winner
wise1-2
Senior
Posts: 523
And1: 116
Joined: Jul 09, 2016

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#17 » by wise1-2 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:24 am

Sorry heat fans but I'm giving this an F. I think they'll be a bottom 3 team in the east.
Prospect Dong
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,247
And1: 1,126
Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Location: Stealing spoons from the Kennedy room

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#18 » by Prospect Dong » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:55 am

caliban wrote:
Woody Allen wrote:Definitely should have kept Wade at that price. He's easily the greatest player of the franchise and still a great player. I hate Wade but refusing to give him the 3rd year was disrespectful.

How come you think Wade still is a great player when the team is better with him off the court?


Hi Caliban, I really appreciate the thorough write-up, and I really, really value the way you link to the sources for the figures you quote. That's serious, top-notch research presentation...

The "but" is that it feels a bit like you have a different stat for every player, and a lot of them feel chosen to reflect you narrative. If you think RAPM is the right measure for Wade, for example, then it's probably worth mentioning that Tyler Johnson also rates out as a net negative by that measure, while Gerald Green doesn't - rather than pointing in another direction when you get to him.

If a stat is one of general application, like RAPM, then if you believe in it you don't need "rim protection index" and if you don't then it probably doesn't tell us anything useful. I can see the appeal in marshalling all the evidence and letting the reader decide, but mostly I think it's worth pointing to consistent measures across the whole roster. You seem pretty committed to Wade's RAPM, and pretty open minded about everyone else's - it's hard to justify Whiteside's money if he's not a top 80 player at his age, for example...
"shooting free throws in the ACC is much tougher"

KawhiRaptors
Prospect Dong
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,247
And1: 1,126
Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Location: Stealing spoons from the Kennedy room

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#19 » by Prospect Dong » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am

caliban wrote:
loserX wrote:Riley is old-school, and that's fine. Players these days may be more sensitive, and that's also fine. But Riley is going to find it harder to work his magic if he starts developing a tough rep with his own star players.
I don't think the players are more sensitive than yesterday. The fans might be. I think the top players are thinking; hm, it sure would be nice to be the man (on a competitive team) in Miami now when Wade is out.
(And tbh for Riley to say "I wish I'd gotten more involved" after the fact felt disingenuous.)
It not only felt disingenuous, it was very much so. Riley is extremely slick with the media, and after watching him doing his pressers through the years I've come to learn that the thing worth paying attention to is when he tells "a random story". That story is never ever random, and this time it was about how Bosh, Lebron and Wade had been greedy in wanting a 6th year on their contracts in 2010, and how that had cost the Heat valuable future picks, the one this year for example. Contracts the trio surely where going to opt out of. The sensmoral; Wade sacrificed but so did the Heat. There's always two sides to the story.


One of these things is not like the other. Bosh and James' sixth years absolutely cost Miami picks, but Wade's didn't. It's convenient for Riley to blame Wade for the costs imposed by the others, but it's also deliberately misleading.
"shooting free throws in the ACC is much tougher"

KawhiRaptors
tmorgan
RealGM
Posts: 14,148
And1: 9,617
Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
   

Re: Miami early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/caliban) 

Post#20 » by tmorgan » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:45 am

I don't know how to grade this stuff, really. The Heat mostly played it smart, kept the future open, and did what they could to recover from Wade's exit... but they still lost their starting 2 and 3, their starting 4 is medically not clear to play, and they're going to rely on a bunch of unproven guys to cover the holes. That sucks, period.

B+ for effort (outside of Riley's butchering of the Wade situation, particularly in the media), but D- for immediate impact. So I guess that's a C. I dunno.

Return to Trades and Transactions