Welcome Okafor: Thread 2

[ET Da Gawd]

It's like a lot of these dudes didn't watch bball before 2010, bigs can work, but you need a good team still to make it work, our perimeter players need to improve their individual/team defense to the spurs level (whether through sheer improvement or trades/draft). People completey ignore kickout 3s from post ups as if those aren't a great way to get 3s. I'm just an old soul in a young man I guess, everyone thinks fast gsw style ball will work for them, you need exquisite shooting for that style to win a chip...ask the phoenix suns, got bullied by bigs in their STAT heyday

[lotto29]

You're going to be so disappointed in a couple months.

Just don't take him serious. Everything he says is utter

BTW, Et Da Gawd is more strident in his belief than I am, but I think that the naysayers have totally discounted Okafor's ability to play the 4 before he has really tried it. It is certainly POSSIBLE that the advantages of him playing there will outweigh the disadvantages. I think that we should all be open to that possibility.

The argument of "which 4's are going to defend Okafor?" is not without merit.

Every forward. Give me post up possessions every time if I am the opponent. And ET da Gawd is an idiot, even to the ones that have similar stance.

[LloydFree]

Who wouldn't want Anthony Davis instead of Okafor?

Jah and Towns both make their team worse by around 3 points per 100 possession and by .5-1% on their team's DFG%. Bottom line, with or without them, the team they play for are bad defensive teams.

Most can't see eye to eye, but this is what we have. Best we can do is be realistic to know their limitations but at the same time consider their upside and tools to be better players. For now, it's more likely that Jah evolves and defends like LaMarcus Aldridge at the PF position than Rudy Gobert at the C position.

If you look around the league, most of the trade options you have right now are terrible.
Marcus Smart?
Terry Rozier?
McDermott?

Might as well try our luck with some undrafted player(s). The next opportunity is at the summer of 2017, which I posted at the other thread.

Yeah, it's such a slow offseason nothing to talk about but past issues that has been repeating over and over again.

Why not talk about how Embiid could be that spacer+rim protector like Ibaka or how Simmons could be that Kawhi type wing who can provide some rim protection at wing position that every big like Jah need?

Who knows, Jah could be that high volume+diverse scorer that would compliment Simmons & Embiid.

Maybe playing big is the way to counter small ball instead of trying to match GSW's firepower that should start with Simmons being a great shooter+high volume scorer.

In the end, it's about putting your most talented guys on the floor and implementing a scheme to hide their weakness and maximize their strength. That is how small ball started. Maybe we can set a new trend.

So that's it. You want use Embiid as a floor spacer just to try fitting Okafor? We have a conundrum here. You kill either guy impact by trying to appeal to the other. Not to mention the other guys. How is Okafor going to survive the constant running of a transition team? You won't be one? Now that's a another conundrum there because you are now hurting Simmons impact.

The exact opposite of what you should want for Embiid's development.

Reminds me of the Knicks taking Patrick Ewing out of the paint to play PF early in his development (and ruining him by making him a fade away jump shooter) for the sake of continuing to fit around Bill 'friggin' Cartwright.

You don't do that. You make sure you maximize the ceiling of best players, and everybody else just fits in... or better yet, comes off the bench.

[lotto29]

Who wouldn't want Anthony Davis instead of Okafor?

Jah and Towns both make their team worse by around 3 points per 100 possession and by .5-1% on their team's DFG%. Bottom line, with or without them, the team they play for are bad defensive teams.

Most can't see eye to eye, but this is what we have. Best we can do is be realistic to know their limitations but at the same time consider their upside and tools to be better players. For now, it's more likely that Jah evolves and defends like LaMarcus Aldridge at the PF position than Rudy Gobert at the C position.

If you look around the league, most of the trade options you have right now are terrible.
Marcus Smart?
Terry Rozier?
McDermott?

Might as well try our luck with some undrafted player(s). The next opportunity is at the summer of 2017, which I posted at the other thread.

Yeah, it's such a slow offseason nothing to talk about but past issues that has been repeating over and over again.

Why not talk about how Embiid could be that spacer+rim protector like Ibaka or how Simmons could be that Kawhi type wing who can provide some rim protection at wing position that every big like Jah need?

Who knows, Jah could be that high volume+diverse scorer that would compliment Simmons & Embiid.

Maybe playing big is the way to counter small ball instead of trying to match GSW's firepower that should start with Simmons being a great shooter+high volume scorer.

In the end, it's about putting your most talented guys on the floor and implementing a scheme to hide their weakness and maximize their strength. That is how small ball started. Maybe we can set a new trend.

So that's it. You want use Embiid as a floor spacer just to try fitting Okafor? We have a conundrum here. You kill either guy impact by trying to appeal to the other. Not to mention the other guys. How is Okafor going to survive the constant running of a transition team? You won't be one? Now that's a another conundrum there because you are now hurting Simmons impact.

The exact opposite of what you should want for Embiid's development.

Reminds me of the Knicks taking Patrick Ewing out of the paint to play PF early in his development (and ruining him by making him a fade away jump shooter) for the sake of continuing to fit around Bill 'friggin' Cartwright.

You don't do that. You make sure you maximize the ceiling of best players, and everybody else just fits in... or better yet, comes off the bench.

Exactly. That's how you build a championship team at least.

[Ericb5]

So that's it. You want use Embiid as a floor spacer just to try fitting Okafor? We have a conundrum here. You kill either guy impact by trying to appeal to the other. Not to mention the other guys. How is Okafor going to survive the constant running of a transition team? You won't be one? Now that's a another conundrum there because you are now hurting Simmons impact.

The exact opposite of what you should want for Embiid's development.

Reminds me of the Knicks taking Patrick Ewing out of the paint to play PF early in his development (and ruining him by making him a fade away jump shooter) for the sake of continuing to fit around Bill 'friggin' Cartwright.

You don't do that. You make sure you maximize the ceiling of best players, and everybody else just fits in... or better yet, comes off the bench.

Exactly. That's how you build a championship team at least.

Just to be clear from my perspective, I don't want to do ANYTHING to Simmons or Embiid to accommodate anyone else on the team.

If Embiid's best spot is the 5, he should play the 5 full time, and we should do everything that we can to compliment him. If Simmons best spot is the 4 then the same deal goes.

We start with those two, and then try to fit pieces around them.

[76ciology]

So that's it. You want use Embiid as a floor spacer just to try fitting Okafor? We have a conundrum here. You kill either guy impact by trying to appeal to the other. Not to mention the other guys. How is Okafor going to survive the constant running of a transition team? You won't be one? Now that's a another conundrum there because you are now hurting Simmons impact.

The exact opposite of what you should want for Embiid's development.

Reminds me of the Knicks taking Patrick Ewing out of the paint to play PF early in his development (and ruining him by making him a fade away jump shooter) for the sake of continuing to fit around Bill 'friggin' Cartwright.

You don't do that. You make sure you maximize the ceiling of best players, and everybody else just fits in... or better yet, comes off the bench.

Exactly. That's how you build a championship team at least.

Again, I'm not in favor of a post heavy offense. It's been my position since day 1.

If you look at the numbers, the best model for high volume scoring center is the DMC model which is a balance of drives, jumper and post offense. I do see Biid playing more like Anthony davis or Karl Towns (rely on length+quickness+athleticism+skillset), with Jah playing more like DMC (size+mobility+skillset).

When Simmons plays two man game with Biid/Jah, Jah/Biid spaces the floor for mid range jumper. When it's denied, we then dump the ball to Jah against smaller PFs or to Biid then have Jah or Biid to space the floor.

Both guys are diverse players on offense. Mobile and skilled enough to shoot jumpers, drives and pass the ball.

[Ericb5]

The exact opposite of what you should want for Embiid's development.

Reminds me of the Knicks taking Patrick Ewing out of the paint to play PF early in his development (and ruining him by making him a fade away jump shooter) for the sake of continuing to fit around Bill 'friggin' Cartwright.

You don't do that. You make sure you maximize the ceiling of best players, and everybody else just fits in... or better yet, comes off the bench.

Exactly. That's how you build a championship team at least.

Again, I'm not in favor of a post heavy offense. It's been my position since day 1.

If you look at the numbers, the best model for high volume scoring center is the DMC model which is a balance of drives, jumper and post offense. I do see Biid playing more like Anthony davis or Karl Towns (rely on length+quickness+athleticism+skillset), with Jah playing more like DMC (size+mobility+skillset).

When Simmons plays two man game with Biid/Jah, Jah/Biid spaces the floor for mid range jumper. When it's denied, we then dump the ball to Jah against smaller PFs or to Biid then have Jah or Biid to space the floor.

Both guys are diverse players on offense. Mobile and skilled enough to shoot jumpers, drives and pass the ball.

Isn't any offense with a healthy Embiid by definition a post heavy offense?

If Embiid is Hakeem then we need to give him the ball on the block.


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[lotto29]

Exactly. That's how you build a championship team at least.

Again, I'm not in favor of a post heavy offense. It's been my position since day 1.

If you look at the numbers, the best model for high volume scoring center is the DMC model which is a balance of drives, jumper and post offense. I do see Biid playing more like Anthony davis or Karl Towns (rely on length+quickness+athleticism+skillset), with Jah playing more like DMC (size+mobility+skillset).

When Simmons plays two man game with Biid/Jah, Jah/Biid spaces the floor for mid range jumper. When it's denied, we then dump the ball to Jah against smaller PFs or to Biid then have Jah or Biid to space the floor.

Both guys are diverse players on offense. Mobile and skilled enough to shoot jumpers, drives and pass the ball.

Isn't any offense with a healthy Embiid by definition a post heavy offense?

If Embiid is Hakeem then we need to give him the ball on the block.


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No. He's a triple threat. If you want to define him by a characteristic play, then it's PnR. Why? Because you can then react in multiple ways. Let him pop, roll to the basket, isolate him in a mismatch (post or drive) or use his threat to let the ball handler set up other guys or himself. He will have his share of post possessions but you want to diversify as much as you can with him so that the defense is always on it's wheels trying to figure it out what he's going to do next. If he has a big mismatch on the post like TT, Mason Plumlee or those type of guys, then you run a lot of post sets. The best really is have him by opponent. Is it slow? PnR. Is it small? Post. Not very aware? Pick and Pop.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Lol, Embiid is not Hakeem, stop!

[Ericb5]

Lol, Embiid is not Hakeem, stop!

I'll just point out again the obnoxiousness of anyone starting a post with LOL.

Embiid has a ceiling of Hakeem, and if you disagree tell me any skill that Hakeem had that Embiid doesn't have the ability to do.

Other than health there is nothing. He just needs to grow, and prove it.

He was definitely better than Hakeem as a freshman.


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[lotto29]

Lol, Embiid is not Hakeem, stop!

I'll just point out again the obnoxiousness of anyone starting a post with LOL.

Embiid has a ceiling of Hakeem, and if you disagree tell me any skill that Hakeem had that Embiid doesn't have the ability to do.

Other than health there is nothing. He just needs to grow, and prove it.

He was definitely better than Hakeem as a freshman.


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Take into perspective that Hakeem in today's game would look a lot different. He would look a little like Anthony Davis

[Mik317]

Hakeem may be up for discussion of the GOAT bigmen.

That is a a bit much for Embiid to live up to.

Calm your tits a bit.

people are setting themselves up to be very dissapointed

[sixerswillrule]

Who wouldn't want Anthony Davis instead of Okafor?

Jah and Towns both make their team worse by around 3 points per 100 possession and by .5-1% on their team's DFG%. Bottom line, with or without them, the team they play for are bad defensive teams.

Most can't see eye to eye, but this is what we have. Best we can do is be realistic to know their limitations but at the same time consider their upside and tools to be better players. For now, it's more likely that Jah evolves and defends like LaMarcus Aldridge at the PF position than Rudy Gobert at the C position.

If you look around the league, most of the trade options you have right now are terrible.
Marcus Smart?
Terry Rozier?
McDermott?

Might as well try our luck with some undrafted player(s). The next opportunity is at the summer of 2017, which I posted at the other thread.

Yeah, it's such a slow offseason nothing to talk about but past issues that has been repeating over and over again.

Why not talk about how Embiid could be that spacer+rim protector like Ibaka or how Simmons could be that Kawhi type wing who can provide some rim protection at wing position that every big like Jah need?

Who knows, Jah could be that high volume+diverse scorer that would compliment Simmons & Embiid.

Maybe playing big is the way to counter small ball instead of trying to match GSW's firepower that should start with Simmons being a great shooter+high volume scorer.

In the end, it's about putting your most talented guys on the floor and implementing a scheme to hide their weakness and maximize their strength. That is how small ball started. Maybe we can set a new trend.

So that's it. You want use Embiid as a floor spacer just to try fitting Okafor? We have a conundrum here. You kill either guy impact by trying to appeal to the other. Not to mention the other guys. How is Okafor going to survive the constant running of a transition team? You won't be one? Now that's a another conundrum there because you are now hurting Simmons impact.

The exact opposite of what you should want for Embiid's development.

Reminds me of the Knicks taking Patrick Ewing out of the paint to play PF early in his development (and ruining him by making him a fade away jump shooter) for the sake of continuing to fit around Bill 'friggin' Cartwright.

You don't do that. You make sure you maximize the ceiling of best players, and everybody else just fits in... or better yet, comes off the bench.

How do you feel about Noel and Embiid on the floor together?

[sixerswillrule]

He can ONLY play the 4 if he stays with us so it is the only position worth talking about.

No. He can't play the 4,he most likely won't play the 4 and if he stays, that means Noel is gone and minutes at the 5 open up. He's horrid at the 4 and only slightly manageable at the 5. He will be a starter for the beginning and then he goes to the bench, if he stays. He won't be a starter at 4 for the whole season and if you're suggesting that, you're absolutely out of your mind.

In the healthy Embiid scenario, Okafor can ONLY stay a Sixer if he can start at the 4. That is precisely why I am pessimistic long term about his fit on the Sixers. For this up coming season, assuming that we trade Noel, and Embiid plays guarded minutes, then sure Okafor can play 30 minutes a night at the 5, but those minutes won't be available 2 years from now if Embiid is healthy.

Okafor playing the 4 is an iffy proposition, but it isn't an impossibility like him playing the 1, 2, or 3. He deserves a chance to show if he can do it. Even if he CAN do it, he may need to be traded eventually simply because of Simmons and Saric potentially being more effective there.

In the healthy Embiid scenario, Embiid still isn't playing more than 24 MPG until the 2018/19 season. If Noel is gone, Okafor could play 30 MPG for the next two seasons with most of that coming at center.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Hope and excitement is all people have right now. I say run with it.

Embiid is gonna be the best center in NBA history!

[LloydFree]

So that's it. You want use Embiid as a floor spacer just to try fitting Okafor? We have a conundrum here. You kill either guy impact by trying to appeal to the other. Not to mention the other guys. How is Okafor going to survive the constant running of a transition team? You won't be one? Now that's a another conundrum there because you are now hurting Simmons impact.

The exact opposite of what you should want for Embiid's development.

Reminds me of the Knicks taking Patrick Ewing out of the paint to play PF early in his development (and ruining him by making him a fade away jump shooter) for the sake of continuing to fit around Bill 'friggin' Cartwright.

You don't do that. You make sure you maximize the ceiling of best players, and everybody else just fits in... or better yet, comes off the bench.

How do you feel about Noel and Embiid on the floor together?

I don't have any problem with Noel and Embiid on the floor together, because the solution for Noel is somewhere between (Rodman) totally ignoring him in the offense and (Jokim Noah) putting him at the Elbow and letting him set picks and pass out of the high post. Teams play this way all of the time. Noel's value is defense only, so you can get him out of the way of Embiid.

You can't do this with Okafor. He needs to be the low post player on his team. To play him in the high post or farther away, makes him near worthless on Offense. He's already useless on defense and he'll be in Embiid's way on Offense if he's in the low post.

[lotto29]

The exact opposite of what you should want for Embiid's development.

Reminds me of the Knicks taking Patrick Ewing out of the paint to play PF early in his development (and ruining him by making him a fade away jump shooter) for the sake of continuing to fit around Bill 'friggin' Cartwright.

You don't do that. You make sure you maximize the ceiling of best players, and everybody else just fits in... or better yet, comes off the bench.

How do you feel about Noel and Embiid on the floor together?

I don't have any problem with Noel and Embiid on the floor together, because the solution for Noel is somewhere between (Rodman) totally ignoring him in the offense and (Jokim Noah) putting him at the Elbow and letting him set picks and pass out of the high post. Teams play this way all of the time. Noel's value is defense only, so you can get him out of the way of Embiid.

You can't do this with Okafor. He needs to be the low post player on his team. To play him in the high post or farther away, makes him near worthless on Offense. He's already useless on defense and he'll be in Embiid's way on Offense if he's in the low post.

Meh, I wouldn't do that either if the idea is to maximize Simmons and Embiid strength. The fact is, if Embiid is healthy, those 2 should be gone. Unless they want to play a 6th man role, then is fine by me.

[Ericb5]

Lol, Embiid is not Hakeem, stop!

I'll just point out again the obnoxiousness of anyone starting a post with LOL.

Embiid has a ceiling of Hakeem, and if you disagree tell me any skill that Hakeem had that Embiid doesn't have the ability to do.

Other than health there is nothing. He just needs to grow, and prove it.

He was definitely better than Hakeem as a freshman.


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Take into perspective that Hakeem in today's game would look a lot different. He would look a little like Anthony Davis

If Davis averaged 25-28 points, 12-14 boards, and 3-4 blocks.

Hakeem today would be the most dominant player in the league.


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[Ericb5]

Hakeem may be up for discussion of the GOAT bigmen.

That is a a bit much for Embiid to live up to.

Calm your tits a bit.

people are setting themselves up to be very dissapointed

Embiid may never live up to Hakeem obviously, but that is still his ceiling.


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[Ericb5]

No. He can't play the 4,he most likely won't play the 4 and if he stays, that means Noel is gone and minutes at the 5 open up. He's horrid at the 4 and only slightly manageable at the 5. He will be a starter for the beginning and then he goes to the bench, if he stays. He won't be a starter at 4 for the whole season and if you're suggesting that, you're absolutely out of your mind.

In the healthy Embiid scenario, Okafor can ONLY stay a Sixer if he can start at the 4. That is precisely why I am pessimistic long term about his fit on the Sixers. For this up coming season, assuming that we trade Noel, and Embiid plays guarded minutes, then sure Okafor can play 30 minutes a night at the 5, but those minutes won't be available 2 years from now if Embiid is healthy.

Okafor playing the 4 is an iffy proposition, but it isn't an impossibility like him playing the 1, 2, or 3. He deserves a chance to show if he can do it. Even if he CAN do it, he may need to be traded eventually simply because of Simmons and Saric potentially being more effective there.

In the healthy Embiid scenario, Embiid still isn't playing more than 24 MPG until the 2018/19 season. If Noel is gone, Okafor could play 30 MPG for the next two seasons with most of that coming at center.

For this upcoming season Embiid may only average 24 mpg, but if he gets through the season unscathed he should be playing starter's minutes the following year.


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