Miami Heat 2016 Offseason Thread; "It will be fun in July"- July-er(Part XIII)

[Bishop45]

Wonder who is higher up on the Totem pole between McBob and Williams. They seem to be fond of Williams and he's easily the best scoring option at PF behind Bosh but McJesus... idk. Looking forward to seeing how Willi is used, some benefits to being a young disastee

[twix2500]

Wonder who is higher up on the Totem pole between McBob and Williams. They seem to be fond of Williams and he's easily the best scoring option at PF behind Bosh but McJesus... idk. Looking forward to seeing how Willi is used, some benefits to being a young disastee

I think we gonna see Williams at backup SF and James Johnson will get the backup PF minutes.

[RexBoyWonder]

Williams will be the starting PF IMO, Hassan can help cover for him on defense and he can score, which we need. Biggest issue for him will be hitting his 3's. I think he still has real potential.

[Bishop45]

Wonder who is higher up on the Totem pole between McBob and Williams. They seem to be fond of Williams and he's easily the best scoring option at PF behind Bosh but McJesus... idk. Looking forward to seeing how Willi is used, some benefits to being a young disastee

I think we gonna see Williams at backup SF and James Johnson will get the backup PF minutes.

I think it's far more likely Johnson plays over Williams at SF, being that he has more experience at the position. Altogether, we might need Rich to play SF just to spot him good minutes if neither him or Tyler plays the back-up 1

[gom]

Our scoring options are very limited on this team and the players who can give us more scoring (given their career stats) are generally negative. We really do rely on progress of our youths.

Career per 36: (ppg) (career ORTG-DRTG) (career net)

Chris Bosh: 19.4 (20.4 in 2015-16) (113-105) (+8)
Hassan Whiteside: 17.4 (17.6 in 2015-16) (116-96) (+20)
Goran Dragic: 16.7 (15.5 in 2015-16) (110-109) (+1)
Derrick Williams: 15.7 (18.7 in 2015-16) (105-108) (-3)
Willie Reed: 15.4 (15.4 in 2015-16) (116-108) (+8) !
Wayne Ellington: 13.1 (13.1 in 2015-16) (103-112) (-9)
James Johnson: 12.8 (11.2 in 2015-16) (101-104) (-3)
Luke Babbitt: 12.5 (13.9 in 2015-16) (105-110) (-5)
Tyler Johnson: 12.4 (13.1 in 2015-16) (106-106) (ZERO)
Josh Richardson: 11.1 (11.1 in 2015-16) (112-106) (+6)
Udonis Haslem: 10.9 (8.2 in 2015-16) (110-104) (+6)
Josh McRoberts: 10.2 (9.1 in 2015-16) (111-106) (+5)
Justise Winslow: 8.1 (8.1 in 2015-16) (97-105) (-8)
Briante Weber: 6.6 (6.6 in 2015-16) (88-107) (-19)
Okaro White: rookie
Stefan Jankovic: rookie
Rodney McGruder: rookie

Huge responsibility for Whiteside (who is worthy) and Dragic (who has much to prove).

[gom]

WTF was Riley thinking when he signed Wayne Ellington? That's almost as bad as signing McRoberts. At least it's just a one year deal.

[Bishop45]

Williams will be the starting PF IMO, Hassan can help cover for him on defense and he can score, which we need. Biggest issue for him will be hitting his 3's. I think he still has real potential.

There's some potential on offense, and the defense... well interesting. Hassan could average maybe 2 more blocks a game with Williams interior D lol, but him worrying about help too much could be a serious problem... Something to watch for.

Dragic/Johnson/Winslow/Williams/Whiteside... That's likely it

[Bishop45]

Our scoring options are very limited on this team and the players who can give us more scoring (given their career stats) are generally negative. We really do rely on progress of our youths.

Career per 36: (ppg) (career ORTG-DRTG) (career net)

Chris Bosh: 19.4 (20.4 in 2015-16) (113-105) (+8)
Hassan Whiteside: 17.4 (17.6 in 2015-16) (116-96) (+20)
Goran Dragic: 16.7 (15.5 in 2015-16) (110-109) (+1)
Derrick Williams: 15.7 (18.7 in 2015-16) (105-108) (-3)
Willie Reed: 15.4 (15.4 in 2015-16) (116-108) (+8) !
Wayne Ellington: 13.1 (13.1 in 2015-16) (103-112) (-9)
James Johnson: 12.8 (11.2 in 2015-16) (101-104) (-3)
Luke Babbitt: 12.5 (13.9 in 2015-16) (105-110) (-5)
Tyler Johnson: 12.4 (13.1 in 2015-16) (106-106) (ZERO)
Josh Richardson: 11.1 (11.1 in 2015-16) (112-106) (+6)
Udonis Haslem: 10.9 (8.2 in 2015-16) (110-104) (+6)
Josh McRoberts: 10.2 (9.1 in 2015-16) (111-106) (+5)
Justise Winslow: 8.1 (8.1 in 2015-16) (97-105) (-8)
Briante Weber: 6.6 (6.6 in 2015-16) (88-107) (-19)
Okaro White: rookie
Stefan Jankovic: rookie
Rodney McGruder: rookie

Huge responsibility for Whiteside (who is worthy) and Dragic (who has much to prove).

How do you think Tyler will/would do starting? I think 14-16 ppg is possible. Could be a fun team if they commit to defense and playing in transition

[Hallstar]

Our scoring options are very limited on this team and the players who can give us more scoring (given their career stats) are generally negative. We really do rely on progress of our youths.

Career per 36: (ppg) (career ORTG-DRTG) (career net)

Chris Bosh: 19.4 (20.4 in 2015-16) (113-105) (+8)
Hassan Whiteside: 17.4 (17.6 in 2015-16) (116-96) (+20)
Goran Dragic: 16.7 (15.5 in 2015-16) (110-109) (+1)
Derrick Williams: 15.7 (18.7 in 2015-16) (105-108) (-3)
Willie Reed: 15.4 (15.4 in 2015-16) (116-108) (+8) !
Wayne Ellington: 13.1 (13.1 in 2015-16) (103-112) (-9)
James Johnson: 12.8 (11.2 in 2015-16) (101-104) (-3)
Luke Babbitt: 12.5 (13.9 in 2015-16) (105-110) (-5)
Tyler Johnson: 12.4 (13.1 in 2015-16) (106-106) (ZERO)
Josh Richardson: 11.1 (11.1 in 2015-16) (112-106) (+6)
Udonis Haslem: 10.9 (8.2 in 2015-16) (110-104) (+6)
Josh McRoberts: 10.2 (9.1 in 2015-16) (111-106) (+5)
Justise Winslow: 8.1 (8.1 in 2015-16) (97-105) (-8)
Briante Weber: 6.6 (6.6 in 2015-16) (88-107) (-19)
Okaro White: rookie
Stefan Jankovic: rookie
Rodney McGruder: rookie

Huge responsibility for Whiteside (who is worthy) and Dragic (who has much to prove).

How do you think Tyler will/would do starting? I think 14-16 ppg is possible. Could be a fun team if they commit to defense and playing in transition

I trust Richardson as a starting SG more than Tyler.

Johnson just too small

[Bishop45]

How do you think Tyler will/would do starting? I think 14-16 ppg is possible. Could be a fun team if they commit to defense and playing in transition

I trust Richardson as a starting SG more than Tyler.

Johnson just too small

Almost same build as JJ Redick, more consistent defense than JRich and has shown capability of making his own shot. I think he'd be fine, for our SF needs... Before anyone is traded, I'd play Weber at the backup 1 and let Rich play SF behind Winslow. Rich at SF would fill a lot of gaps on our team and give Webes some time to showcase talent/trade value. Webes, Waiters, Rich, Reed has some potential off the bench

[twix2500]

WTF was Riley thinking when he signed Wayne Ellington? That's almost as bad as signing McRoberts. At least it's just a one year deal.

Ira explained, that the Heat were scrambling to find cheap talent to fill out the roster so they can resign Tyler over the max.

[gom]

WTF was Riley thinking when he signed Wayne Ellington? That's almost as bad as signing McRoberts. At least it's just a one year deal.

Ira explained, that the Heat were scrambling to find cheap talent to fill out the roster so they can resign Tyler over the max.

"Scrambling" does not sound like a good way of filling out the roster. Let's see though...

Players signed after Wayne Ellington: (2 years, $12 million with Heat)

MARCUS THORNTON: 1 year, minimum with Wizards
JAMES MCADOO: 1 year, minimum with Warriors
JAMES JOHNSON: 1 year, $4 million with Heat *
MEYERS LEONARD: 4 years, $41 million with Blazers
WILLIE REED: 2 years, minimum with Heat *
JARRETT JACK: 1 year, minimum with Hawks
UDONIS HASLEM: 1 year, $4 million with Heat *
GREIVIS VASQUEZ: 1 year, $5 million with the Nets
JARED SULLINGER: 1 year, $6 million with Raptors
KRIS HUMPHRIES: 1 year, $4 million with Hawks
SASHA VUJACIC: 1 year, minimum with Knicks
LUIS SCOLA: 1 year with Nets
CHRISTIAN WOOD: 2 years with Hornets
JONATHAN GIBSON: 3 years with Mavericks
PABLO PRIGIONI: 2 years, minimum with Rockets
JOE HARRIS: 2 years, $2 million with the Nets
MAURICE NDOUR: 2 years with the Knicks
ANTHONY BENNETT: 2 years, minimum with the Nets
RANDY FOYE: 1 year with the Nets
MANU GINOBILI: 1 year, $14 million with the Spurs
QUINCY ACY: 2 years, minimum with the Mavericks
RAYMOND FELTON: 1 year, minimum with the Clippers
TERRENCE JONES: 1 year, likely minimum with the Pelicans
DAVIS BERTANS: 2 years, $4 million with the Spurs
CHRIS ANDERSEN: 1 year, minimum with the Cavaliers
BRANDON BASS: 1 year, minimum with the Clippers
JORDAN HILL: 2 years, $8 million with Wolves
ANDERSON VAREJAO: 1 year, minimum with Warriors
ALEX ABRINES: 3 years, $18 million with Thunder
MILES PLUMLEE: 4 years, $52 million with Bucks
AARON BROOKS: 1 year, $2.5 million with Pacers
MIKE MILLER: 2 years, $5 million with Nuggets
GERALD GREEN: 1 year, $1.4 million with Celtics
TYLER ZELLER: 2 years, $16 million with Celtics
ALONZO GEE: 1 year, minimum with Pelicans
NICOLAS BRUSSINO: 3 years, minimum with Mavericks
DION WAITERS: 1 year, $2.9 million with Heat *
MAURICE HARKLESS: 4 years, $40 million with Blazers
DAVID LEE: 2 years, $3.2 million with Spurs

----

There are a lot of players on the list I'd rather have than Wayne Ellington. We actually have plenty of guards with TJ, Weber, Dragic, Richardson, McGruder, & now Waiters, but if we were going to add another guard, I would have prefered Udrih. Up front (because of our massive hole at PF) I think I'd prefer to spend the money on Brandon Bass, Jordan Hill, David Lee, Quincy Acy, & Christian Wood.

[gom]

Our scoring options are very limited on this team and the players who can give us more scoring (given their career stats) are generally negative. We really do rely on progress of our youths.

Career per 36: (pp/36 in 2015-16) (career ORTG-DRTG) (career net)

Chris Bosh: 19.4 (20.4 in 2015-16) (113-105) (+8)
Hassan Whiteside: 17.4 (17.6 in 2015-16) (116-96) (+20)
Goran Dragic: 16.7 (15.5 in 2015-16) (110-109) (+1)
Derrick Williams: 15.7 (18.7 in 2015-16) (105-108) (-3)
Willie Reed: 15.4 (15.4 in 2015-16) (116-108) (+8) !
Wayne Ellington: 13.1 (13.1 in 2015-16) (103-112) (-9)
James Johnson: 12.8 (11.2 in 2015-16) (101-104) (-3)
Luke Babbitt: 12.5 (13.9 in 2015-16) (105-110) (-5)
Tyler Johnson: 12.4 (13.1 in 2015-16) (106-106) (ZERO)
Josh Richardson: 11.1 (11.1 in 2015-16) (112-106) (+6)
Udonis Haslem: 10.9 (8.2 in 2015-16) (110-104) (+6)
Josh McRoberts: 10.2 (9.1 in 2015-16) (111-106) (+5)
Justise Winslow: 8.1 (8.1 in 2015-16) (97-105) (-8)
Briante Weber: 6.6 (6.6 in 2015-16) (88-107) (-19)
Okaro White: rookie
Stefan Jankovic: rookie
Rodney McGruder: rookie

Huge responsibility for Whiteside (who is worthy) and Dragic (who has much to prove).

How do you think Tyler will/would do starting? I think 14-16 ppg is possible. Could be a fun team if they commit to defense and playing in transition

I think TJ isn't really ready for a starting role yet. My expectation is that Dion Waiters (16.3 pp/36, 12.7 in 2015-16) (98-109) who is another terrible signing will be the SG at first. Otherwise JRich and TJ split the duties. Training camp will decide who starts.

[Bishop45]

Spoiler:

Our scoring options are very limited on this team and the players who can give us more scoring (given their career stats) are generally negative. We really do rely on progress of our youths.

Career per 36: (pp/36 in 2015-16) (career ORTG-DRTG) (career net)

Chris Bosh: 19.4 (20.4 in 2015-16) (113-105) (+8)
Hassan Whiteside: 17.4 (17.6 in 2015-16) (116-96) (+20)
Goran Dragic: 16.7 (15.5 in 2015-16) (110-109) (+1)
Derrick Williams: 15.7 (18.7 in 2015-16) (105-108) (-3)
Willie Reed: 15.4 (15.4 in 2015-16) (116-108) (+8) !
Wayne Ellington: 13.1 (13.1 in 2015-16) (103-112) (-9)
James Johnson: 12.8 (11.2 in 2015-16) (101-104) (-3)
Luke Babbitt: 12.5 (13.9 in 2015-16) (105-110) (-5)
Tyler Johnson: 12.4 (13.1 in 2015-16) (106-106) (ZERO)
Josh Richardson: 11.1 (11.1 in 2015-16) (112-106) (+6)
Udonis Haslem: 10.9 (8.2 in 2015-16) (110-104) (+6)
Josh McRoberts: 10.2 (9.1 in 2015-16) (111-106) (+5)
Justise Winslow: 8.1 (8.1 in 2015-16) (97-105) (-8)
Briante Weber: 6.6 (6.6 in 2015-16) (88-107) (-19)
Okaro White: rookie
Stefan Jankovic: rookie
Rodney McGruder: rookie

Huge responsibility for Whiteside (who is worthy) and Dragic (who has much to prove).

How do you think Tyler will/would do starting? I think 14-16 ppg is possible. Could be a fun team if they commit to defense and playing in transition

I think TJ isn't really ready for a starting role yet. My expectation is that Dion Waiters (16.3 pp/36, 12.7 in 2015-16) (98-109) who is another terrible signing will be the SG at first. Otherwise JRich and TJ split the duties. Training camp will decide who starts.

As a #1 or #2, no, but I think he can be a support player in a starting unit/ More than capable next to Whiteside and Dragic and definitely more deserving than Waiters for a number of reasons. Waiters has only showed he can be cordial with the ball in his hands, something he would be able to do at a greater capacity off the bench where we have no scorers and maybe 1 ball handler. I doubt the vision behind the signing, besides trade value, is to have him next to Whiteside and even Dragic

You don't think Tyler could put up 14+ as a starter playing 30 or more? I see it, maybe not on his own but while he has Dragic and Whiteside to draw attention from him

That along with the long term commitment they just put into Tyler, would have me believe that he would start

[gom]

How do you think Tyler will/would do starting? I think 14-16 ppg is possible. Could be a fun team if they commit to defense and playing in transition

I think TJ isn't really ready for a starting role yet. My expectation is that Dion Waiters (16.3 pp/36, 12.7 in 2015-16) (98-109) who is another terrible signing will be the SG at first. Otherwise JRich and TJ split the duties. Training camp will decide who starts.

As a #1 or #2, no, but I think he can be a support player in a starting unit/ More than capable next to Whiteside and Dragic and definitely more deserving than Waiters for a number of reasons. Waiters has only showed he can be cordial with the ball in his hands, something he would be able to do at a greater capacity off the bench where we have no scorers and maybe 1 ball handler. I doubt the vision behind the signing, besides trade value, is to have him next to Whiteside and even Dragic

You don't think Tyler could put up 14+ as a starter playing 30 or more? I see it, maybe not on his own but while he has Dragic and Whiteside to draw attention from him

That along with the long term commitment they just put into Tyler, would have me believe that he would start

I think by the time TJ's contract gets expensive, he has a good chance of putting up 14+ as a starter. Next year he's still being paid as a bench player.

Waiters has never been useful with the ball in his hands. He was a bad first round draft pick that somehow stuck around in the league with everyone thinking just like you do... that somehow he never was used correctly. He's just a bad high-usage player. Give him the ball more and we'll lose by wider scores.

Spo and Riley are going to give Waiters a chance though unless Richardson crushes them in camp. I hope it happens. I also hope we keep Weber, but I expect him to be suiting up for the Skyforce.

[Butter]

Would the Heat be willing to trade Bosh? If yes, what kind of value are they looking for?

As a Blazers fan, I was considering a consolidation trade, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like it would need to be a 3 way.

[Bishop45]

I think TJ isn't really ready for a starting role yet. My expectation is that Dion Waiters (16.3 pp/36, 12.7 in 2015-16) (98-109) who is another terrible signing will be the SG at first. Otherwise JRich and TJ split the duties. Training camp will decide who starts.

As a #1 or #2, no, but I think he can be a support player in a starting unit/ More than capable next to Whiteside and Dragic and definitely more deserving than Waiters for a number of reasons. Waiters has only showed he can be cordial with the ball in his hands, something he would be able to do at a greater capacity off the bench where we have no scorers and maybe 1 ball handler. I doubt the vision behind the signing, besides trade value, is to have him next to Whiteside and even Dragic

You don't think Tyler could put up 14+ as a starter playing 30 or more? I see it, maybe not on his own but while he has Dragic and Whiteside to draw attention from him

That along with the long term commitment they just put into Tyler, would have me believe that he would start

I think by the time TJ's contract gets expensive, he has a good chance of putting up 14+ as a starter. Next year he's still being paid as a bench player.

Waiters has never been useful with the ball in his hands. He was a bad first round draft pick that somehow stuck around in the league with everyone thinking just like you do... that somehow he never was used correctly. He's just a bad high-usage player. Give him the ball more and we'll lose by wider scores.

He's not a good high usage player, he's not a good player period. Benching Waiters would be more of damage control than anything but he's served as well as he has ever off of OKC's bench, so since we're going to play him anyway... Why start him, gom?

[gom]

As a #1 or #2, no, but I think he can be a support player in a starting unit/ More than capable next to Whiteside and Dragic and definitely more deserving than Waiters for a number of reasons. Waiters has only showed he can be cordial with the ball in his hands, something he would be able to do at a greater capacity off the bench where we have no scorers and maybe 1 ball handler. I doubt the vision behind the signing, besides trade value, is to have him next to Whiteside and even Dragic

You don't think Tyler could put up 14+ as a starter playing 30 or more? I see it, maybe not on his own but while he has Dragic and Whiteside to draw attention from him

That along with the long term commitment they just put into Tyler, would have me believe that he would start

I think by the time TJ's contract gets expensive, he has a good chance of putting up 14+ as a starter. Next year he's still being paid as a bench player.

Waiters has never been useful with the ball in his hands. He was a bad first round draft pick that somehow stuck around in the league with everyone thinking just like you do... that somehow he never was used correctly. He's just a bad high-usage player. Give him the ball more and we'll lose by wider scores.

He's not a good high usage player, he's not a good player period. Benching Waiters would be more of damage control than anything but he's served as well as he has ever off of OKC's bench, so since we're going to play him anyway... Why start him, gom?

Josh Jackson
Harry Giles
Dennis Smith
Jonathan Isaac
Markelle Fultz

A Waiters-Ellington backcourt has a lot of potential.

[Bishop45]

I think by the time TJ's contract gets expensive, he has a good chance of putting up 14+ as a starter. Next year he's still being paid as a bench player.

Waiters has never been useful with the ball in his hands. He was a bad first round draft pick that somehow stuck around in the league with everyone thinking just like you do... that somehow he never was used correctly. He's just a bad high-usage player. Give him the ball more and we'll lose by wider scores.

He's not a good high usage player, he's not a good player period. Benching Waiters would be more of damage control than anything but he's served as well as he has ever off of OKC's bench, so since we're going to play him anyway... Why start him, gom?

Josh Jackson
Harry Giles
Dennis Smith
Jonathan Isaac
Markelle Fultz

A Waiters-Ellington backcourt has a lot of potential.

Oh, alright I wasn't sure why you were angry about it, still not sure tbh. For slight clarification, earlier was just a slight rant about us not having scorers being a bad thing or just the lack of faith in the current guys being/becoming concerning. You really don't think Tyler is a starting guard, especially in this context? Or he shouldn't be the starting guard because he isn't or shouldn't be ready and we should be tanking? If I didn't make those questions too complicated

[gom]

He's not a good high usage player, he's not a good player period. Benching Waiters would be more of damage control than anything but he's served as well as he has ever off of OKC's bench, so since we're going to play him anyway... Why start him, gom?

Josh Jackson
Harry Giles
Dennis Smith
Jonathan Isaac
Markelle Fultz

A Waiters-Ellington backcourt has a lot of potential.

Oh, alright I wasn't sure why you were angry about it, still not sure tbh. For slight clarification, earlier was just a slight rant about us not having scorers being a bad thing or just the lack of faith in the current guys being/becoming concerning. You really don't think Tyler is a starting guard, especially in this context? Or he shouldn't be the starting guard because he isn't or shouldn't be ready and we should be tanking? If I didn't make those questions too complicated

My approach to the season would have been very different, but we are where we are, right? So let's make the best of it. We're going to have some great game threads.

I would not have signed Waiters or Ellington. I'm ho hum about James Johnson. Derrick Williams is probably best of the bunch, but Willie Reed may end up being one of the most important, especially if Whiteside goes down for any length of time. I mean, we have nobody else, right?

I do like TJ and think he can become an NBA guard, but I'm not sure he'll be a starting guard now. In fact, right now I prefer Richardson. Richardson/Winslow on the wings would be really good if Winslow can manage to be a consistent scorer.

Look. This year is going to be really awful and it's best to accept it going in. I'm going to cheer for our young players' development and hope they get minutes. I like that we brought back Reed.

I have no emotional investment in any of the other guys Riley hired. Waiters & Ellington are two of the worst players in the NBA. James Johnson is serviceable, but nothing special. Derrick Williams is a flawed player who has NBA talent, but needs to develop overnight essentially into a lock down defensive player to get onto court.

This is a terrible, terrible off season, but I'm in for the longer haul. I'm a Heat fan and see our future as more brilliant than our past, but that future isn't really any closer after the events of the offseason.