payitforward wrote:nate33 wrote:...Hitler administered one of the greatest economic turnarounds of all time. In 1933, his country was bankrupt, the currency destroyed, and unemployment was 30%. Within 10 years, they were on the verge of global domination. Hitler was an awful man, but let's not disregard his economic success....
Forgive me, Nate, but that's not true or even close to true. I note that in support of your (really quite astonishing) claim that he "administered one of the greatest economic turnarounds of all time" (reread that phrase) you mention not even one aspect of Hitler's economic policy nor even one action the regime undertook on the economic front. Not a single one.
It is certainly true that Germany in 1933 certainly suffered -- as pretty much all developed countries did -- from the global economic depression. It is true as well that German GNP went up substantially in the first years of Hitler's reign. In fact by 1937 it had actually reached the level of 1927.
But, unfortunately for the case you seem to want to make, I don't know why, German GNP declined in '38, and it continued to decline in '39.
Are you familiar with "Mefo bills"? If so, you know they were (in effect) a fake currency created to allow Hitler to re-arm. They led by the end of the '30s to the greatest deficit in the country's history -- a level of deficit exceeding any other European country to that point in history.
Hitler nationalized altogether many key industries and pursued "autarky" (national self-sufficiency w/o trade -- i.e. attempt to get along without importing any product of any kind). By the end of the '30s there were severe restrictions on how often a person could drive a car (rubber shortage, etc.). There was as well rationing of many foodstuffs throughout the 30s.
There was very little room in those years for new business creation or innovation in Germany. In fact, investment decisions were made as a matter of government policy; banks had no role in decision-making or capital allocation -- all they did was provide mechanisms to execute the decisions of a totalitarian regime.
Indeed, the whole of German economic policy under Hitler had one goal and one goal only -- to prepare for a global war against what he called "Bolshevism" and defined as a worldwide conspiratorial attempt to replace all the worthy kinds of human beings that had provided leadership throughout history with Jews.
You know, I may be wrong, but as far as I can tell insane maniacs rarely provide useful economic leadership -- you may view the world differently.
Indeed, one could argue that the defining acts of military aggression Hitler undertook (and which led with utter inevitability to the complete destruction of Germany) -- namely the invasion first of Czechoslovakia and then of Poland, along with the Anschluss in which Austria was taken over -- reflected a need for military victories to provide external capital and and slave labor (whole external economies, really) to make up for the unsalvageable mess the German economy had become under his regime.
Well... not just the "German economy" but all of Germany, which he destroyed. Had the US not decided we needed a powerful German economy as a bulwark against the "domino theory" fall of Europe into Soviet hands, Germany would have been at an end as an economy. Among earlier proposal for post-war Germany, one of the best known drafts discussed by Roosevelt and Churchill called for "converting Germany into a country primarily agricultural and pastoral in its character."
With this post, I plan to conclude my participation in this thread. Not because it lacks interest, but because -- basically -- it's not something I can stomach.
"Hitler" is not an abstraction to me; he killed most of my family. As to Donald Trump, I don't find him amusing, I find him an abomination. His afterbirth should have been turned over him when he emerged from the womb so that no one would have to listen to his improvised sequence of ugly stupidities. Sorry if that sounds harsh; it didn't happen, so in fact we will have to listen to him for a few more months after which he will retreat again to his own special atavistic rat hole.
First of all, I want to point out that I didn't bring up Hitler. I made a big post about Putin. Somebody else mentioned that authoritarians can have good economies and THAT'S when I chimed in that Hitler had economic success as well. I haven't taken the time to research the economic policy details of Hitler's regime, I only know that his country grew massively and his industries cranked out an incredible amount of military equipment and technological innovations; and they did so with a starting point of utter bankruptcy and poverty after the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic. And this happened at a time when everyone else was suffering from a worldwide Great Depression.
I'm sure it's true that there were currency shenanigans and deficit spending that impaired the long term sustainability of his programs. But then, America had its own currency shenanigans and deficit spending as well. After all FDR confiscated gold from the people, and we had rationing as too.
I just don't see how you can look at the performance of Germany's economy during that era relative to everyone else and conclude that it wasn't an economic success, at least for a decade or so.
