Best Athlete: Kevin Durant vs. Anthony Davis vs. Giannis Antetokounmpo

[pelifan]

Dude you aren't reading my posts. I haven't said at any point that Giannis has "much superior impact." I said that he'd be better soon at their current trajectories. Davis has great stats but hasn't been a high impact guy so I don't really see how what I've said is particularly offensive. I mean you aren't suggesting that he's been a superstar up to this point right?

I read it. You can't penalize Davis for not having superior impact without doing the same for Giannis. Also AD's 2015 season is that season. He has one bad season and has supposedly plateaued, but still if Giannis continues his current trajectory he'd be lucky to have a season as good Davis had last year a season from now. It's not offensive, it's just wrong.

[MyUniBroDavis]

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It's a bigger part of Durant's game because he runs the floor better.

Or maybe it's because davis isn't a player that handles the ball because it's a waste of his talent

Right, so Durant gets you a couple hundred more points on nigh identical efficiency? He's comfortably the superior player in transition.

Last year
Davis 122 possessions 1.56ppp, so it's hardly set in stone
Davis is generally more efficient in transition, and bigs typically do this less than guards

Neither of these things negates the fact that relative to their role & position, Durant is the superior rebounder.

Not denying that, but Davis isn't exactly an average rebounder, despite what his totals may make some believe. Also consider, Asik is one of the best trb%/per minute rebounders Iirc

Davis is neither faster nor more explosive from a stand still. I do believe he's a more explosive leaper though. Bounce and overall strength are his two athletic advantages in this comparison imo.

Watch on YouTube

I very much believe Davis is comparable to Jordan athletically. In some instances I'd favor the latter, especially around the rim on offense

Davis is 6'10 with a 7'5 wingspan. He's shorter than KD and the same height as Giannis while being the least mobile of the 3 and carrying the shortest standing reach.

He has said he has grown, and hopes to not hit 7ft.
His wingspan is reportedly 7ft7.75. Pictures make him look near, or at the same height as towns. Possibly a bit taller, pictures obviously vary in height but generally that's where it's at. I don't have the team USA pics, but look at his rookie year to the latest team pic with him on it. One pic he looks shorter than Durant, the other he looks taller

The Davis party has provided nothing to substantiate these claims that he's faster than Durant & Giannis. Meanwhile, there's been multiple clips showing both of them getting down the floor and to the basket in two dribbles

Reportedly beat tyreke in a foot race.

There simply aren't many clips of Davis going full sprint because he never needs to, I think I only saw one or two in his rookie year

Clearly he isn't going full sprint here, but if you time it and consider he was turning around while Durant got a full straight start the speed difference isn't huge, even if he looks slow, if you time it it isn't a big difference

Watch on YouTube

AD has a jump shot, yet KD comfortably remains the superior player. Why? Because his overall package is more dominant than what AD brings to the table. In large part because of what he's able to do on the perimeter(32/8/5, for example) at 6'11, 240 with a 7'5 wing span.

What.
Like what.
Okay, steph curry is more athletic than Westbrook, clearly, because he is the superior player, and they both have a jump shot.

You're basically proving our points. John Wall's handle isn't as strong as Curry's(whose underrated athletically. His lateral quickness and quick twitch movements are lethal), but he's still able to get the the rim at will due to his overall athletic package.
In the same vein, despite AD's handle being inferior to GA & KD, he should be able to still get to the basket at will given his alleged athletic advantages. This isn't the case though... why?

Let me rephrase this. 2 players are ball handlers, one isn't. Why is this so hard to understand?

You realize that ad typically faces up from about 13-18 feet right? Not from the arc. There's a difference. It's harder to drive from there, and typically non playmaking bigs don't drive.

Davis is the better player and he has the higher ceiling(jump shot, skill, IQ, defense), but that doesn't mean he's more athletic. The two notions are mutually exclusive.

I was responding to another point

[MyUniBroDavis]

The best part is if we switched Davis's 2015 and 2016 seasons this wouldn't even be an arguement.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't know how they measure standing reaches now, but everyone's is kind of messed up the last few years compared to how they used to measure, they don't even make sense. Giannis' wasn't even measured officially at the combine, so we're just going off reports, but look at some of the tests just on Davis:

2010 NBA top 100 camp: 6'8 in socks, 7'2 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach.

2012 NBA draft Combine: 6'9.25(6'10.5 in shoes), 7'5.5 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach.

How is that possible? Andre Drummond's seemed extremely off that year too. 6'11.75, with a 7'6.25 wingspan... 9'1.25 standing reach. Huh? The draft combine is measuring differently than they used to, and differently than other camps are for sure over the last few years. Guys standing reach is coming out shorter at the combine after significant growth, than it is at other camps. The only guys that seem to have the highest standing reach since 2012ish are the guys that weren't measured at the official combine.

Here is Zhou Qi this year, great example:

2015 Hoop Summit: 7'2 with shoes, 7'6.5 Standing reach, 9'6.5 standing reach.

2016 NBA Draft COmbine: 7'2.25 in shoes, 7'7.75 wingspan, 9'4.5 standing reach.

So he grew a quarter of an inch, his reach grew 1.25 inches, but his standing reach lost 2 inches? Yea, something is being done differently. Maybe the draft combine officials aren't letting players fully extend now or something, I have no idea. Thon Maker also lost about 2-3 inches off his standing reach compared to other places measuring too.

Anyway, the point is moot, standing reach arguments and such are about projections going forth. Pelicans camp has said and has cardboard cutouts of life sized Anthony Davis pictures, and he "reportedly" is over 6'11 and has 7'7+ standing reach now. I dunno if he does, and I dunno how much other guys have grown, because every team says their young stud is getting bigger and more athletic, but like I said, it doesn't even matter in this instance, because he's a substantially better guy at using whatever his length is to play big, and effect the game with shot blocking, rebounding, and finishing above the rim. We're past the projecting stage, Giannis isn't going to magically turn into a guy that can anchor like a big man, despite however much length he has, just like Durant didn't.

And yea. You can say that I'm acting like a child, but there is no "trajectory" or any objective measure that anyone can look at an even begin to argue that Giannis is even in the ball park of Davis after his second year, or in his 1 "down" year so far, and there is no reason to think the best he'll ever be is a season that was clearly his worst season due to battling injuries and the team being a wreck.

GIannis has a very long way to go before he's even as good as 20 year old Anthony Davis was, so stating with any certainty that he'll definitely better soon is laughable at best, and completely ignorant and homerific if we're being honest.

Edit: Wait, I just saw his post that said Davis hasn't been a superstar up to this point The people defending Davis are clearly the biased ones here, hahhahahah.

[Magic Giannison]

Wingspan: as large as his wingspan is, Davis's is almost 5 inches longer, so this isn't even close.

Bobam Marjanovic got the biggest wingspan if im not mistaken , that doesn't mean he is athletic just that he got freakish arms. You a combination of many things in order to convert into athleticism

What?
Also, it was said in an article, just look up Davis wingspan grew

Huh? isnt Davis listed 6.10 ? While Giannis is 6.11 ?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisan02.html
Height: 6-10 ▪ Weight: 253 lbs.

http://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/anthony-davis-238-pounds-may-still-be-growing-6-10/

Compare pictures of his rookie year to now. Nba listed height is usually wrong anyway lol

Giannis went from 6.8 to 6.11 in offseason alone. Giannis was 2.10 lbs when he came and now is 222 lbs. Despite that he became more quick and more explosive as he put muscles and trained his body.

How much of it was muscle, and how much of it was that he grew 3 inches? Also, Davis did the same, but went from 220 to 242

Ermm no, he is not, From all the top 8 in transitions corers Giannis was the second most efficient behind only Lebron James.

For all players who have over 100 possessions, Davis is the most efficient in the league. Also, klay and KD are more efficient in that category as well.mgiannis scores 1.22ppp. Davis scores 1.36ppp, a huge drop from last year iirc

Shooting is part of technique that can be learner anytime, A.K.A look at Kawhi.

Can make it harder. There are always exceptions, but typically larger hands make it harder to shoot. Also, 15 inches vs 12 inches. I think Gianni's will get better at this area though

His body is perfectly build so he wont consume much energy like the other do, because of how his hips and his body in general allow Giannis to do those ridiculous non stop Jumps and the eurostep Dunks.he doesnt need time to recover like others.
"One of the hallmarks of athleticism, transferring energy is what allows Antetokounmpo to bounce around the floor like he's on a pogo stick."
Pretty clear

This seems like a really long way to phrase pylometric ability. Those Eurostep dunks are more of a one leg vs two leg thing, it's hard to explain but it really isn't as complicated as the article says it is. Davis is known, probably more so, for doing this as well

Giannis played and plays under bad coaches as well only post ASB he actually played his natural position and flourished.
The thing is with Giannis is how flexible he is with positions, last year he guarded ALL of them, From PG to C.
Giannis is not as good on posting ( but respectable) because he gets pushed by bigger C's, hence why he plays mostly PF on defense.

While this is a good point, let's talk about coaching. The difference is Monty let him face up and do his thing. Gentry made him more of a back to the basket player, and made him pop too much instead of roll. You don't understand how much that ffffffffed up Davis's offensive game. Honestly, I've written an essay on how bad the Pelicans coaching is, but to be blunt it's not close to the same thing, because Gianni's got to "have his way" eventually. Davis hasn't

I expect next year to be where he has to prove himself

Im pointing you out official reported wingspan and height and you're telling me look at the pictures? really?

Fact is Giannis is 6 .11 with a 7.3 wingspan while Davis is 6.10 with 7.5. Where exactly do you get those 5 inches from ?
I could also say that Giannis wingspan is 8 by just because he is 21 years old and still growing but he is not.

As for the eurostep no, you're wrong. The motion the body does when its eurosteping usually prevents you from making another action as you put all your energy into changing the direction of your body thats why usually you dont have the energy to JUMP afterwards and dunk. In Giannis occasion because of how his body is built he doesnt got the same issues.
Giannis is know from Eurostepping form 3 point line and eurostep dunking and spinning moves, these are his signature moves.

For the coaches, you seems to forget that he was coached under Lary Drew who put him in a corner all year and made him waste a time of his development in a wrong position. Kidd was also doing the same exactly thing until Bucks actually got soo many injuries and gave up on the season Kidd tried to experiment with the lineup. Giannis also told him that he could play at PG but wasnt confident until that point but now he is.

So to put it simply, in these 27 games we saw the true potential of Giannis at his natural position.

You said that in transition Davis scored better than Giannis and i pointed you out that Giannis was the most efficient transitional scorer after Lebron.
Why would i compare Giannis scoring to Davis when Davis got like 6 FGA more than him and is the primary scorer in NO and a better shooter?

We are comparing them as Atheles not their talent skills.

How much of it was muscle, and how much of it was that he grew 3 inches? Also, Davis did the same, but went from 220 to 242

Giannis grew to 6.11 when he was still skinny, it was his transformation during 2014 where he started to get used to his body and working on it is where he became more quick and explosive..

I mean look at Jabari Parker who is 250 lbs and is explosive as hell.

[NO-KG-AI]

Davis was 6'10.25 with a 7'5.5 wingspan even if we are assuming he didn't grow. I think it's pretty stupid to assume one guy grew and the other guy didn't, since both of their camps are saying the exact same things in terms of them growing. Kind of unfair to take one as valid and dismiss the other I think.

[Magic Giannison]

Davis was 6'10.25 with a 7'5.5 wingspan even if we are assuming he didn't grow. I think it's pretty stupid to assume one guy grew and the other guy didn't, since both of their camps are saying the exact same things in terms of them growing. Kind of unfair to take one as valid and dismiss the other I think.

You do realize that Giannis is 6.11 7.3 since 2013 season, right ? it goes both ways.

Giannis didn't grew at all since then thats my point , even if the doctors said he will grow more. In latest interview he said he doesnt want to grow more anyway.

So yeah, if you wanna a play the assuming card it can go both ways like you said.

[NO-KG-AI]

Davis was 6'10.25 with a 7'5.5 wingspan even if we are assuming he didn't grow. I think it's pretty stupid to assume one guy grew and the other guy didn't, since both of their camps are saying the exact same things in terms of them growing. Kind of unfair to take one as valid and dismiss the other I think.

You do realize that Giannis is 6.11 7.3 since 2013 season, right ? it goes both ways.

Giannis didn't grew at all since then thats my point , even if the doctors said he will grow more. In latest interview he said he doesnt want to grow more anyway.

So yeah, if you wanna a play the assuming card it can go both ways like you said.

I'm just saying, they probably both grew similarly, and I wouldn't be surprised if their teams exaggerate the growth some, or the potential growth.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Im pointing you out official reported wingspan and height and you're telling me look at the pictures? really?

Fact is Giannis is 6 .11 with a 7.3 wingspan while Davis is 6.10 with 7.5. Where exactly do you get those 5 inches from ?
I could also say that Giannis wingspan is 8 by just because he is 21 years old and still growing but he is not.

http://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/anthony-davis-238-pounds-may-still-be-growing-6-10/

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/anthony-davis-wingspan-grown-2-inches-since-2012/

As for the eurostep no, you're wrong. The motion the body does when its eurosteping usually prevents you from making another action as you put all your energy into changing the direction of your body thats why usually you dont have the energy to JUMP afterwards and dunk. In Giannis occasion because of how his body is built he doesnt got the same issues.
Giannis is know from Eurostepping form 3 point line and eurostep dunking and spinning moves, these are his signature moves.

It's not as ridiculous as you are saying, the drop in vert is nothing more than 5-6 inches, maybe less. I can hang on the rim off a regular jump and can touch the shock box off an exaggerated Eurostep, and I'm barely 6ft and I'm Asian so my body proportions suck and I'm automatically not athletic. I think Davis could probably dunk off the euro lol.

As the coaches, you seems to forget that he was coached under Lary Drew who put him in a corner all year and made him waste a time of his development in a wrong position. Kidd was also doing the same exactly thing until Bucks actually got soo many injuries and gave up on the season Kidd tried to experiment with the lineup. Giannis also told him that he could play at PG but wasnt confident until that point but now he is.

I don't think you understand how ffffffed up the Pelicans are as a whole. I'm not going to detail, since I've done it enough times before, but think about 2015 this way. Davis was a more effective than isolation scorer than the likes of curry, Irving, Westbrook, etc. tyreke was one of the worst isolation scorers. Yet tyreke was one of the league leaders in that category, while Davis, who was incredibly efficient, had just enough plays to know its not a fluke, but not enough to make a positive impact.

I went into detail before

You said that in transition Davis scored better than Giannis and i pointed you out that Giannis was the most efficient transitional scorer after Lebron.
Why would i compare Giannis scoring to Davis when Davis got like 6 FGA more than him and is the primary scorer in NO and a better shooter?

No, I pointed out how Davis IS more efficient, and it's not particularly close, especially considering this was a "down year" for Davis in every play type area, transition included.

Giannis grew to 6.11 when he was still skinny, it was his transformation during 2014 where he started to get used to his body and working on it is where he became more quick and explosive..

I mean look at Jabari Parker who is 250 lbs and is explosive as hell.

Huh?

[Whirrun]

Davis was 6'10.25 with a 7'5.5 wingspan even if we are assuming he didn't grow. I think it's pretty stupid to assume one guy grew and the other guy didn't, since both of their camps are saying the exact same things in terms of them growing. Kind of unfair to take one as valid and dismiss the other I think.

I don't think everyone is the same. Some people grow after 18, some people don't. What evidence do you have that Davis is one of the former? Hell, perhaps he did all his growing when he experienced his sudden 7 inches of growth?

[Whirrun]

Or maybe it's because davis isn't a player that handles the ball because it's a waste of his talent

Running the floor has nothing to do with handling the ball. Further, being able to handle the ball competently is hardly ever thought of as a negative.

Last year
Davis 122 possessions 1.56ppp, so it's hardly set in stone
Davis is generally more efficient in transition, and bigs typically do this less than guards

So, how many points did Davis score in transition, how many points did Durant score? After you identify their volume, then you identify their efficiency. Otherwise we're left without context.

Not denying that, but Davis isn't exactly an average rebounder, despite what his totals may make some believe. Also consider, Asik is one of the best trb%/per minute rebounders Iirc

I know Davis is good rebounder, never suggested otherwise. What I'm trying to get you to understand is why being able to play on the perimeter at GA & KD's size is so special.

He has said he has grown, and hopes to not hit 7ft.

He never claimed to have grown beyond 6'10. He was asked if he was still growing and answered he's hoped not, he like's being 6'10.

"The University of Kentucky product said he hasn’t measured himself lately, but it’s possible he’s no longer 6-foot-10, as he’s been listed in the pros. He half-jokingly added that he wants to stay in the 6-something range.

“I hope not,” Davis said on whether he’s still growing. “I don’t want to be 7 feet. It just (sounds) weird, to be a 7-footer. I’d like to be 6-10, but if I grow, you can’t really do anything about it. You can’t help it.”

His wingspan is reportedly 7ft7.75. Pictures make him look near, or at the same height as towns. Possibly a bit taller, pictures obviously vary in height but generally that's where it's at. I don't have the team USA pics, but look at his rookie year to the latest team pic with him on it. One pic he looks shorter than Durant, the other he looks taller

What report suggest Davis wingspan has grown to 7ft7.75? All I've seen is some reference to a promotional station at some fan event, which to be fair, is unreliable. Those are Javale Mcgee & Hassan Whiteside measurements, and they both appear visibly longer + taller than Davis.

Reportedly beat tyreke in a foot race.

There simply aren't many clips of Davis going full sprint because he never needs to, I think I only saw one or two in his rookie year

Clearly he isn't going full sprint here, but if you time it and consider he was turning around while Durant got a full straight start the speed difference isn't huge, even if he looks slow, if you time it it isn't a big difference

C'mon man, we both know allegedly beating Tyreke Evans doesn't prove anything if AD isn't showing the type of athleticism to get up & down the floor like a guard night in & night out. And to this point in his career, he hasn't, you've even acknowledged that yourself.

Also, Ibaka is great at chase down's to, are we going to use that to suggest he moves up & down the floor as quickly & fluidly as GA & KD?

Watch on YouTube

What.
Like what.
Okay, steph curry is more athletic than Westbrook, clearly, because he is the superior player, and they both have a jump shot.

Westbrook doesn't have a jump shot, while they both play the same role & position while being relatively the same size. Neither breaks the mold of a PG.

Both KD & AD both have a jump shot, but they do not play the same role in position because the former plays the floor like a guard while the latter plays the floor like a traditional big. One of these players breaks the mold, thus explaining his dominance.

This is really simple.

Let me rephrase this. 2 players are ball handlers, one isn't. Why is this so hard to understand?

It was your analogy and you analogized two ball handlers, so don't question me for not understanding.

You realize that ad typically faces up from about 13-18 feet right? Not from the arc. There's a difference. It's harder to drive from there, and typically non playmaking bigs don't drive.

Have you ever considered that maybe AD is a face up big that can't extend to the perimeter because that's what his athletic profile allows?

[NO-KG-AI]

Davis was 6'10.25 with a 7'5.5 wingspan even if we are assuming he didn't grow. I think it's pretty stupid to assume one guy grew and the other guy didn't, since both of their camps are saying the exact same things in terms of them growing. Kind of unfair to take one as valid and dismiss the other I think.

I don't think everyone is the same. Some people grow after 18, some people don't. What evidence do you have that Davis is one of the former? Hell, perhaps he did all his growing when he experienced his sudden 7 inches of growth?

Maybe, maybe not. All we have are anecdotal pictures, training camp and team stories, and cardboard cut outs as proof that both guys grew, that's why it's stupid to argue over. The proof of growth or the amount of growth is hearsay at best

We don't have any official measurements on what Giannis was then, or is now, so how is it different?

Seems like your burden of proof changes depending on who you are actively defending.

He definitely grew after high school. He was 6'8 in socks before his freshman year, and he was 6'9.25 in socks after his freshman year finished. This much was documented. Anything else is a guessing game, like Giannis.


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[Whirrun]

Maybe, maybe not. All we have are anecdotal pictures, training camp and team stories, and cardboard cut outs as proof that both guys grew, that's why it's stupid to argue over. The proof of growth or the amount of growth is hearsay at best

We don't have any official measurements on what Giannis was then, or is now, so how is it different?

Seems like your burden of proof changes depending on who you are actively defending.

You seem to be confusing me with someone else, but I've never suggested that Giannis is any bigger than the 6'10, 7'3 wingspan that's been reported and confirmed by the player himself.

He definitely grew after high school. He was 6'8 in socks before his freshman year, and he was 6'9.25 in socks after his freshman year finished. So we do have that much. Anything else is a guessing game, like Giannis.

I'm including that in the 7 inch growth spurt since it was often reported at Kentucky that it had pushed him to 6'10.

[Whirrun]

Anyway, the point is moot, standing reach arguments and such are about projections going forth. Pelicans camp has said and has cardboard cutouts of life sized Anthony Davis pictures, and he "reportedly" is over 6'11 and has 7'7+ standing reach now. I dunno if he does, and I dunno how much other guys have grown, because every team says their young stud is getting bigger and more athletic, but like I said, it doesn't even matter in this instance, because he's a substantially better guy at using whatever his length is to play big, and effect the game with shot blocking, rebounding, and finishing above the rim. We're past the projecting stage, Giannis isn't going to magically turn into a guy that can anchor like a big man, despite however much length he has, just like Durant didn't.

But he doesn't use his length to affect the game more so than the other two. Well, more so than Giannis maybe because the latter isn't as skilled, talented, or positionally aware but certainly not more so than KD, who is arguably a stronger defender, is a definitively stronger rebounder relative to their positions, and a stronger finisher at the rim. Further, Davis isn't a guy that has shown he can consistently anchor defenses at a high level either.

And yea. You can say that I'm acting like a child, but there is no "trajectory" or any objective measure that anyone can look at an even begin to argue that Giannis is even in the ball park of Davis after his second year, or in his 1 "down" year so far, and there is no reason to think the best he'll ever be is a season that was clearly his worst season due to battling injuries and the team being a wreck.

GIannis has a very long way to go before he's even as good as 20 year old Anthony Davis was, so stating with any certainty that he'll definitely better soon is laughable at best, and completely ignorant and homerific if we're being honest.

Do you not understand that Davis can be the superior player without being the superior athlete?

[NO-KG-AI]

Maybe, maybe not. All we have are anecdotal pictures, training camp and team stories, and cardboard cut outs as proof that both guys grew, that's why it's stupid to argue over. The proof of growth or the amount of growth is hearsay at best

We don't have any official measurements on what Giannis was then, or is now, so how is it different?

Seems like your burden of proof changes depending on who you are actively defending.

You seem to be confusing me with someone else, but I've never suggested that Giannis is any bigger than the 6'10, 7'3 wingspan that's been reported and confirmed by the player himself.

He definitely grew after high school. He was 6'8 in socks before his freshman year, and he was 6'9.25 in socks after his freshman year finished. So we do have that much. Anything else is a guessing game, like Giannis.

I'm including that in the 7 inch growth spurt since it was often reported at Kentucky that it had pushed him to 6'10.

Ah, ok then. He gained a documented 3.5 inches of wingspan between 2010 and 2012, pushing it to a recorded 7'5.5, and after that I've seen reports and stuff like this

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/anthony-davis-wingspan-grown-2-inches-since-2012/

It has a few interesting tidbits from the team, and from Anthony himself, but evidence like this is flimsy at best to me, I take it with a grain of salt, it's just promotional stuff. It's supposedly true to scale, and does have a ruler on it though

I think more importantly, media and players and whoever lists these things aren't bickering over an inch or two like we do, they always focus on the height thing more, which is why you'll see guys having such big discrepancies in their wingspan across multiple measurements.

Though, Davis did take a huge leap forward that season, but that could just be natural progression and added weight.

Like I said earlier though, height and wingspan is largely irrelevant to me once I see how they translate it to the NBA. I like looking at them for college prospects to try and figure out who will translate skills in a specific way, but once it's clear what level of shot blocker, rebounder, defender, or whatever a guy can be, his measurements really don't matter as much anymore.

[MyUniBroDavis]

who is arguably a stronger defender, is a definitively stronger rebounder relative to their positions, and a stronger finisher at the rim. Further, Davis isn't a guy that has shown he can consistently anchor defenses at a high level either.

Stronger defender? 2015 Davis? No. Not a chance. I've gone over how horrible the Pelicans defense was, how disorganized it was, and it seems like remains schemes take about a year and a half to sink in, but the first year is pretty bad.

Davis has been in the nba for 4 years, 3 years the defenders were low iq with one of the most complicated defensive schemes in the nba.

Finish at the rim, it's arguable that a big reason was because Durant is a 3 point threat, so it would give him less contested shots at the rim, easier drives, etc.

Running the floor has nothing to do with handling the ball. Further, being able to handle the ball competently is hardly ever thought of as a negative.

Are talking about the same thing?

So, how many points did Davis score in transition, how many points did Durant score? After you identify their volume, then you identify their efficiency. Otherwise we're left without context.

Points per possessions, times, the possessions. We were just talking about efficiency

I know Davis is good rebounder, never suggested otherwise. What I'm trying to get you to understand is why being able to play on the perimeter at GA & KD's size is so special.

I haven't denied that, but just because Davis doesn't play on the perimeter, doesn't mean he is less athletic

He never claimed to have grown beyond 6'10. He was asked if he was still growing and answered he's hoped not, he like's being 6'10.

"The University of Kentucky product said he hasn’t measured himself lately, but it’s possible he’s no longer 6-foot-10, as he’s been listed in the pros. He half-jokingly added that he wants to stay in the 6-something range.

“I hope not,” Davis said on whether he’s still growing. “I don’t want to be 7 feet. It just (sounds) weird, to be a 7-footer. I’d like to be 6-10, but if I grow, you can’t really do anything about it. You can’t help it.”

His wingspan is reportedly 7ft7.75. Pictures make him look near, or at the same height as towns. Possibly a bit taller, pictures obviously vary in height but generally that's where it's at. I don't have the team USA pics, but look at his rookie year to the latest team pic with him on it. One pic he looks shorter than Durant, the other he looks taller

What report suggest Davis wingspan has grown to 7ft7.75? All I've seen is some reference to a promotional station at some fan event, which to be fair, is unreliable. Those are Javale Mcgee & Hassan Whiteside measurements, and they both appear visibly longer + taller than Davis.

Reportedly beat tyreke in a foot race.

There simply aren't many clips of Davis going full sprint because he never needs to, I think I only saw one or two in his rookie year

Clearly he isn't going full sprint here, but if you time it and consider he was turning around while Durant got a full straight start the speed difference isn't huge, even if he looks slow, if you time it it isn't a big difference

C'mon man, we both know allegedly beating Tyreke Evans doesn't prove anything if AD isn't showing the type of athleticism to get up & down the floor like a guard night in & night out. And to this point in his career, he hasn't, you've even acknowledged that yourself.

Also, Ibaka is great at chase down's to, are we going to use that to suggest he moves up & down the floor as quickly & fluidly as GA & KD?

That doesn't make sense, we are just talking about speed, and on the fast break they play different roles. Durant and especially Gianni's will handle the ball and try to outrace everyone else on the break. Davis just needs to get near the rim for an alley oop, and he usually slows down midway through preparing to catch a lob or a pass.

Watch on YouTube

Both KD & AD both have a jump shot, but they do not play the same role in position because the former plays the floor like a guard while the latter plays the floor like a traditional big. One of these players breaks the mold, thus explaining his dominance.

This is really simple.

No, this is like saying John wall and steph curry both have a jump shot, so curry being better makes him more athletic. One is BETTER at making jumpers

It was your analogy and you analogized two ball handlers, so don't question me for not understanding.

No, it's because the arguement against ad is essentially just because 2 players are tall ball handlers

Have you ever considered that maybe AD is a face up big that can't extend to the perimeter because that's what his athletic profile allows?

tell me exactly, what is his "athletic profile" because you seem to think he is a traditional big that jumps and runs better than average.

If you take away their ball handling ability, and shooting ability, who is the best of the three?

Saying they both can shoot and therefore this is dumb is literally like me saying curry and peak Derrick rose can both shoot so curry must be more athletic

[pelifan]

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I'm on your side but I think you've got the wrong video

[Whirrun]

Stronger defender? 2015 Davis? No. Not a chance. I've gone over how horrible the Pelicans defense was, how disorganized it was, and it seems like remains schemes take about a year and a half to sink in, but the first year is pretty bad.

Davis has been in the nba for 4 years, 3 years the defenders were low iq with one of the most complicated defensive schemes in the nba.

I don't see any reason to believe Davis is the defender you or KG are suggesting. He blocks & contest shots for sure, but he isn't a particularly impactful defender. Meanwhile, KD is able to effectively defend the rim & defend the perimeter at an elite level.

Finish at the rim, it's arguable that a big reason was because Durant is a 3 point threat, so it would give him less contested shots at the rim, easier drives, etc.

Huh? Are you trying to say Durant is a stronger finisher than AD because he has better range? That doesn't even make sense. The best finisher at the rim in the league is arguably Deandre Jordan and he isn't effective outside of 3ft.

Are talking about the same thing?

Yes, we're talking about running the floor, which has nothing to do with handling the ball.

Points per possessions, times, the possessions. We were just talking about efficiency

No, you're talking about efficiency. I'm smart enough to realize that slightly better efficiency with far less volume makes Davis an overall less effective player in transition.

I mean seriously, the difference in their ppp was .02, yet the difference in their volume was 200 points. How is this even a discussion?

I haven't denied that, but just because Davis doesn't play on the perimeter, doesn't mean he is less athletic

Yes, that's exactly what it means. If Davis had the athleticism to play on the perimeter, then guess what? That's exactly where he'd play, because that's where he'd provide the biggest mismatches.

Demarcus Cousins is walking in front of Davis and leaning forward, giving the illusion of being significantly shorter. Here's a more recent picture of them standing face to face:




Also, here:




And here:





Meanwhile:




And:

That doesn't make sense, we are just talking about speed, and on the fast break they play different roles. Durant and especially Gianni's will handle the ball and try to outrace everyone else on the break. Davis just needs to get near the rim for an alley oop, and he usually slows down midway through preparing to catch a lob or a pass.

Are you forgetting that Durant plays with Russell Westbrook?

No, this is like saying John wall and steph curry both have a jump shot, so curry being better makes him more athletic. One is BETTER at making jumpers

..... Whaaat?

AD & Durant are BOTH skilled players with jumpers. Durant is the more dominant player because his athleticism allows him to play on the perimeter, where he's a mismatch of historical proportions. Your John Wall & Curry analogy doesn't hold in this instance because despite Durant & Davis having similar physical profiles in terms of height & length, they do not share positions nor roles because the former is able to do things on the court that the latter cannot from a physical standpoint.

tell me exactly, what is his "athletic profile" because you seem to think he is a traditional big that jumps and runs better than average.

That's exactly how he plays because that's exactly what he is. I'm still waiting for a Pelicans fan to prove otherwise.

If you take away their ball handling ability, and shooting ability, who is the best of the three?

We've already established that athleticism plays a huge role in slashing to the basket & beating defenders off the bounce. You can stop asking silly questions.

[AussieBuck]

And yea. You can say that I'm acting like a child, but there is no "trajectory" or any objective measure that anyone can look at an even begin to argue that Giannis is even in the ball park of Davis after his second year, or in his 1 "down" year so far, and there is no reason to think the best he'll ever be is a season that was clearly his worst season due to battling injuries and the team being a wreck.

GIannis has a very long way to go before he's even as good as 20 year old Anthony Davis was, so stating with any certainty that he'll definitely better soon is laughable at best, and completely ignorant and homerific if we're being honest.

Edit: Wait, I just saw his post that said Davis hasn't been a superstar up to this point The people defending Davis are clearly the biased ones here, hahhahahah.

Talking about me without quoting me is pretty childish too. At least we are at the problem now though. Didn't realise people were still calling Davis a superstar, your reactions make a bit more sense now. I'm guessing you're a big fan of PER or something similar.

[NO-KG-AI]

And yea. You can say that I'm acting like a child, but there is no "trajectory" or any objective measure that anyone can look at an even begin to argue that Giannis is even in the ball park of Davis after his second year, or in his 1 "down" year so far, and there is no reason to think the best he'll ever be is a season that was clearly his worst season due to battling injuries and the team being a wreck.

GIannis has a very long way to go before he's even as good as 20 year old Anthony Davis was, so stating with any certainty that he'll definitely better soon is laughable at best, and completely ignorant and homerific if we're being honest.

Edit: Wait, I just saw his post that said Davis hasn't been a superstar up to this point The people defending Davis are clearly the biased ones here, hahhahahah.

Talking about me without quoting me is pretty childish too. At least we are at the problem now though. Didn't realise people were still calling Davis a superstar, your reactions make a bit more sense now. I'm guessing you're a big fan of PER or something similar.

Well, people are. So is most objective analysis, linear and advanced statistics, some MVP votes, peer reviews, scouts, coaches, playoff performance, All NBA voting, all defensive team voting, olympic performance, college domination. He's been amazing in every setting. There is no confusion. Davis is already a superstar, and has been for a few years. The only argument is where he ranks among other NBA superstars.

No one has ever confused Giannis with being that kind of player.

This thread has really spiraled. Now Davis isn't even a great player anymore






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