where do the board members stand with regards to EG?

[montestewart]

I'm shocked 16 people saw fit to give him a 3!

We still giving him props for the Caron Butler trade?

You know, everyone here isn't like you and me, jaded and embittered. Some people are more optimistic and kind hearted, looking for the best in everyone. These buoyant souls, the lights of the world, are probably the people who gave him his 3s. God bless 'em!

[payitforward]

I'm shocked 16 people saw fit to give him a 3!

We still giving him props for the Caron Butler trade?

You know, everyone here isn't like you and me, jaded and embittered. Some people are more optimistic and kind hearted, looking for the best in everyone. These buoyant souls, the lights of the world, are probably the people who gave him his 3s. God bless 'em!

Are you referring to me? Thank you; it's good to have a friend. Only... no, I didn't give a 3 to a blind farmer trying to get his plow up the tree and down again.

[montestewart]

I'm shocked 16 people saw fit to give him a 3!

We still giving him props for the Caron Butler trade?

You know, everyone here isn't like you and me, jaded and embittered. Some people are more optimistic and kind hearted, looking for the best in everyone. These buoyant souls, the lights of the world, are probably the people who gave him his 3s. God bless 'em!

Are you referring to me? Thank you; it's good to have a friend. Only... no, I didn't give a 3 to a blind farmer trying to get his plow up the tree and down again.

PIF, you've always got a friend! Hmmm, maybe I should raise EG's grade to 2.

[doclinkin]

Ernie Grunfeld very Number Ten! Not number #1. Number one good! The best!

[I_Like_Dirt]

Ernie Grunfeld very Number Ten! Not number #1. Number one good! The best!

If that's how we're doing it then 509387219873.6 seems about right.

[ptptpt]

Who in the world is giving EG 10s? Are there some rings in sight that I don't know about?

I guess that was the Wizards who won the championship this season and not the Cavaliers cuz that's the only way I see EG getting a 10 rating.

[montestewart]

Who in the world is giving EG 10s? Are there some rings in sight that I don't know about?

To quote LeBJ, "Not one . . . ."

[I_Like_Dirt]

I'm shocked 16 people saw fit to give him a 3!

We still giving him props for the Caron Butler trade?

You know, everyone here isn't like you and me, jaded and embittered. Some people are more optimistic and kind hearted, looking for the best in everyone. These buoyant souls, the lights of the world, are probably the people who gave him his 3s. God bless 'em!

I actually think that 3 is a more damning grade in Ernie's case than 1. A 1 for a GM usually gets fired in 5 years or less. A 3 meanwhile does just enough not to get fired and can hang around for decades given trusting/foolish ownership. It's also sometimes tougher to clean up after a 3 than a 1, because a 3 has the team planted firmly with aging veterans in the 7-11 spots in the conference and can't necessarily clear the decks or start with a high pick, unless that 1 is Billy King and traded as many future draft picks as he could while completely bottoming your team out in the process.

[montestewart]

I'm shocked 16 people saw fit to give him a 3!

We still giving him props for the Caron Butler trade?

You know, everyone here isn't like you and me, jaded and embittered. Some people are more optimistic and kind hearted, looking for the best in everyone. These buoyant souls, the lights of the world, are probably the people who gave him his 3s. God bless 'em!

I actually think that 3 is a more damning grade in Ernie's case than 1. A 1 for a GM usually gets fired in 5 years or less. A 3 meanwhile does just enough not to get fired and can hang around for decades given trusting/foolish ownership. It's also sometimes tougher to clean up after a 3 than a 1, because a 3 has the team planted firmly with aging veterans in the 7-11 spots in the conference and can't necessarily clear the decks or start with a high pick, unless that 1 is Billy King and traded as many future draft picks as he could while completely bottoming your team out in the process.

Agree that the latter is a good characterization of EG, but not that it merits a 3. People are giving him higher grades because he's done a few good things, but he's done just enough good things to allow rose colored glasses wearing owners, reporters, and fans (kind-hearted souls) to repeatedly give him another chance and doom the team to NBA purgatory. That's a 1 in my book. Fire that clown out of a cannon into a cup of mouldy Dannon.

[lastemp3ror]

I gave EG a 3. It is important to understand that to some people a 1 is complete and utter failure. In my view point EG had very little success with his moves, but that is still better than no success. He could have traded John Wall for Andrew Bogut straight up and then gave Rose a max contract. He could have traded Beal for a second round draft pick. There are several things that he could have done, that made us worse.

At the end of the day, this scoring system boils down to how you interpret it. To me, a 1 is someone who had no success or did nothing positive at all. A 10 is someone who had no failures at all. If you interpret this scoring system the same way I am and give EG a 1, then you are voting with your emotions.

[payitforward]

I have to agree that if a "1" means Billy King, then we can't give Ernie that grade. No one is as bad as Billy King, and the scoring system shouldn't hide his uniquely awful crappiness!

But that doesn't imply that Ernie merits even as high as a "3" on a 10 point scale. I'd say "2" is just about perfect for him. Then again, of course that's what I think, since that's the grade I gave him.

[dckingsfan]

I have to agree that if a "1" means Billy King, then we can't give Ernie that grade. No one is as bad as Billy King, and the scoring system shouldn't hide his uniquely awful crappiness!

But that doesn't imply that Ernie merits even as high as a "3" on a 10 point scale. I'd say "2" is just about perfect for him. Then again, of course that's what I think, since that's the grade I gave him.

Mean = 2.69
Mode = 2

So, I think most of the board agrees...

[tontoz]

4 perfect 10s? Looks like we are getting trolled by fans of other teams.

[montestewart]

4 perfect 10s? Looks like we are getting trolled by fans of other teams.

Or, as doc suggested, they are votes made under the impression that 10 was the lowest score. Understandable, and in which case the average score is 1.98

[payitforward]

I wonder where a GM who made moves using the "pin the tail on the donkey" method would land? I doubt he'd be much better than Ernie, though.

[pcbothwel]

I was thinking about a hypothetical regarding EG over the next year. For those that think rate him as a 1 or 2, what would need to happen (realistically) for you to think of him as mediocre (5/6)?

I.E.
- All key players would have to stay mostly healthy
- Beal taking the leap to top 10 SG
- Tomas proving to be spot starter and elite 6th man
- Porter continue to make strides
- Wall providing same production, but higher efficiency due to previous 3 points about improvements with Beal, Tomas, and Otto.

This would give him a grade of about 4, maybe 5. Then if:
- Morris proves to be closer to 2013/14 version of himself with mediocre efficiency, but great defense and clutch scoring.
- Mahinmi plays 20 Mpg with efficient offense and elite defense
- Nicholson becomes great bench scorer at the 4 and Mismatch as small ball 5 that hits 3's at 35% rate

That would push him to a 5, maybe 6. Then of course the wild card of Oubre could help or hurt.

Thoughts?

[BigA]

I was thinking about a hypothetical regarding EG over the next year. For those that think rate him as a 1 or 2, what would need to happen (realistically) for you to think of him as mediocre (5/6)?

I.E.
- All key players would have to stay mostly healthy
- Beal taking the leap to top 10 SG
- Tomas proving to be spot starter and elite 6th man
- Porter continue to make strides
- Wall providing same production, but higher efficiency due to previous 3 points about improvements with Beal, Tomas, and Otto.

This would give him a grade of about 4, maybe 5. Then if:
- Morris proves to be closer to 2013/14 version of himself with mediocre efficiency, but great defense and clutch scoring.
- Mahinmi plays 20 Mpg with efficient offense and elite defense
- Nicholson becomes great bench scorer at the 4 and Mismatch as small ball 5 that hits 3's at 35% rate

That would push him to a 5, maybe 6. Then of course the wild card of Oubre could help or hurt.

Thoughts?

It would depend on the results. He has a long record of futility to make up. If we're grading EG on his entire tenure, the Wizards would need to win 50+ games and get to the conference finals for me to move him up even one or two notches (from bad to the lower rung of mediocre) based on just one year. If they were a tough out in the NBA finals, I'd be in a giddy mood and maybe move him up to a 5 or 6.

So, for me, the Wizards would need to exceed what's on your list. Beal or Porter and Wall need to make the All-Star team. Satoransky has to come in and immediately have an impact. Morris needs to be at least a solid starter. Brooks needs to make a noticeable difference. Burke needs to be a solid back-up PG.

I also think that Oubre is more important than a wild card, since the team is now constructed with very little wing depth. Oubre becoming a solid back-up would help mitigate EG's horrendous draft record.

[WallToWall]

I was thinking about a hypothetical regarding EG over the next year. For those that think rate him as a 1 or 2, what would need to happen (realistically) for you to think of him as mediocre (5/6)?

I.E.
- All key players would have to stay mostly healthy
- Beal taking the leap to top 10 SG
- Tomas proving to be spot starter and elite 6th man
- Porter continue to make strides
- Wall providing same production, but higher efficiency due to previous 3 points about improvements with Beal, Tomas, and Otto.

This would give him a grade of about 4, maybe 5. Then if:
- Morris proves to be closer to 2013/14 version of himself with mediocre efficiency, but great defense and clutch scoring.
- Mahinmi plays 20 Mpg with efficient offense and elite defense
- Nicholson becomes great bench scorer at the 4 and Mismatch as small ball 5 that hits 3's at 35% rate

That would push him to a 5, maybe 6. Then of course the wild card of Oubre could help or hurt.

Thoughts?

I rated EG as a 3 and that was being generous due to a Thomas Creek Castaway Chocolate Orange IPA at the time of my voting. EG would have to show that the moves he has made deserve a 5/6 rating, of course, but I dont want to wait any longer to find out. Beal has to be just as good or better than Harden, as thats who we could have had in a trade some time ago. Porter should be a starting SF and getting 15+ pts 7+ rbs and bringing some D. Wall has shown that he is more than worthy, but that was a pick that was a gimmie. Oubre has to show that he is a more than capable backup. In my mind, I dont know if EG can ever make up for the 2nd round picks that were given away, or simply wasted. I also dont think he can make up for the Miller + Foye trade. Just about everyone did a face-palm when that happened.
I guess he would have to make great picks (oh wait, where are our picks) or trades or off-season pickups that actually make us a championship contender. Problem is that, if its picks that he makes, I dont want to wait 3 years for those player to mature to the point where EG can be re-graded. His body of work says he cant make these sorts of picks. So that leaves trades and off-season pickups. This years batch of off-season pickups can be graded when the season is about 1/3 through. But I dont think we've helped ourselves just based on who we've picked up, what we paid for them, and what they are capable of contributing. So I guess that leaves just trades. We are forced to wait and see what he can do, as Bill, er, EG and Ted's Great Adventure is not out of new movies to make.

[payitforward]

I was thinking about a hypothetical regarding EG over the next year. For those that think rate him as a 1 or 2, what would need to happen (realistically) for you to think of him as mediocre (5/6)?

I.E.
- All key players would have to stay mostly healthy
- Beal taking the leap to top 10 SG
- Tomas proving to be spot starter and elite 6th man
- Porter continue to make strides
- Wall providing same production, but higher efficiency due to previous 3 points about improvements with Beal, Tomas, and Otto.

This would give him a grade of about 4, maybe 5. Then if:
- Morris proves to be closer to 2013/14 version of himself with mediocre efficiency, but great defense and clutch scoring.
- Mahinmi plays 20 Mpg with efficient offense and elite defense
- Nicholson becomes great bench scorer at the 4 and Mismatch as small ball 5 that hits 3's at 35% rate

That would push him to a 5, maybe 6. Then of course the wild card of Oubre could help or hurt.

Thoughts?

Huh?

Ernie has a 13 year tenure to be considered. He's been just absolutely awful. He'd get the bottom grade if there didn't have to be a lower circle in Hell for Billy King. And that's no matter what happens this year.

I also think your "need to happen" points are mostly irrelevant. Beal was the right pick in 2012, even if he doesn't work out at all. Porter was the right pick in 2013, and I certainly do expect him to continue improving. Wall was the right pick in 2010; what he does next year has no bearing on Ernie's grade. As to Tomas proving to be an "elite 6th man" in his rookie year -- well, sure, that would make a terrible draft decision look better. On its own it might push him 1/10th of a point in grade? But... come on, that's not going to happen. So he stays at 2.

As to the subsequent 3: Morris was a below-average PF in his best year, 2013-14. Getting "closer" to that wouldn't begin to make him worth a lottery pick! Especially given Phoenix being basically unable to trade him anywhere all season no matter how hard they tried. Mahinmi: I expect him to play very well. 20 minutes a game would be under 1700 minutes on the season. For $16m. That is supposed to push Ernie up??

As to Nicholson, don't you think you might be asking a lot of a guy who has been bad his whole career and managed to earn 823 minutes with a 35-win team last year, and then they didn't extend a qualifying offer to him? If he becomes a "great bench scorer" or anything else good it'll be an NBA miracle -- and you'll have trouble convincing me that Ernie saw it coming. Still, sure, another .1

So if on average he's 2.67 at the moment, your dream scenario pushes him all the way up to 2.87. In short, Ernie is a bum. He's a time-server who is an expert manager of his boss. Anyone who's spent much time in business has had plenty of encounters w/ his type.