The 2016 Offseason Thread

[bwgood77]

I have been thinking about this. I have not been a big Okafor fan, but his value seems to have plummetted too far. This could be a buy low moment.

Sure I'd trade Knight for him but unless we dump another center we'd be a little clogged at that position. It seems we have good chemistry tight now and high character guys so I kind of doubt they'd want to take a risk on a guy that may have character issues. Don't know that we need another guy who has put a beating on people. We also really need better rim protectors at that spot.

I think we're still rebuilding and if we have the chance to score a possible premier offensive talent from the center position that fits right into our core of 18 - 19 yr olds than it's a deal too good to pass. Chemistry goes out the window for now if it means possibly having a much stronger lineup for years to come.

I loved his game at Duke, though I did notice he had some terrible shooting games which didn't make sense being a post player. I didn't watch him much this year. I think he could be a great player so he's worth taking on and I think (or thought) his incidents off the court were overblown until I saw the video.

I think it is ok to wait though, and we still would need to unload another center. I wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade until after that happens because it just wouldn't work out well. We'd have another disgruntled player unless we tried to play one at PF which would be ill advised.

Ultimately it depends on the price, but at this point, since there doesn't seem to be much interest in him, I'd wait until the season starts and see how our team looks. Maybe Len improves and gets back to form not playing 4 and playing with Bledsoe and Booker instead of Goodwin, Price and occasionally Knight.

[oddity]

Sure I'd trade Knight for him but unless we dump another center we'd be a little clogged at that position. It seems we have good chemistry tight now and high character guys so I kind of doubt they'd want to take a risk on a guy that may have character issues. Don't know that we need another guy who has put a beating on people. We also really need better rim protectors at that spot.

I think we're still rebuilding and if we have the chance to score a possible premier offensive talent from the center position that fits right into our core of 18 - 19 yr olds than it's a deal too good to pass. Chemistry goes out the window for now if it means possibly having a much stronger lineup for years to come.

I loved his game at Duke, though I did notice he had some terrible shooting games which didn't make sense being a post player. I didn't watch him much this year. I think he could be a great player so he's worth taking on and I think (or thought) his incidents off the court were overblown until I saw the video.

I think it is ok to wait though, and we still would need to unload another center. I wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade until after that happens because it just wouldn't work out well. We'd have another disgruntled player unless we tried to play one at PF which would be ill advised.

Ultimately it depends on the price, but at this point, since there doesn't seem to be much interest in him, I'd wait until the season starts and see how our team looks. Maybe Len improves and gets back to form not playing 4 and playing with Bledsoe and Booker instead of Goodwin, Price and occasionally Knight.

Woah I actually didn't realize there was a video until you just said that. What hole have I lived in for the past 6 months..? Just saw it and yeah it looks really bad. Looks like he's caught up with some really bad characters and that's hard to move past. After the Morris debacle even I'm far more hesitant taking him after seeing this. Could be a cancer for the team.

That being said I DID see a lot of his game last season, and he is as dominant of an offensive force as he is worrisome off the court. So young but he's got a great post game already, with advanced double moves and even a mid-range jumpshot. Has size and athleticism but also great body control - he's very good at staying on balance and keeping the ball high during step-throughs and spin moves. I think the dude can be one of the best offensive bigs in the game, and I think he can improve on defense to at least not be a turnstyle. I also think that the fit can be pretty great with us, especially if we can play one of Chriss or Bender as a stretch 4. Jahlil could be a true shot creator down low - something we're in real need of - and the spacing he gives up can be more than made up for by the rest of the lineup (assuming Bender and Chriss pan out).

I understand why you're hesitant taking him, and the off-court issues bother me too, but if it's for one of our combo guards I'd still take it. Not only can Jahlil dramatically improve our offense, but he can clear the logjam for guys like Ulis to step in as backup, and Booker to cement himself as the undisputed starting SG.

[bwgood77]

I think we're still rebuilding and if we have the chance to score a possible premier offensive talent from the center position that fits right into our core of 18 - 19 yr olds than it's a deal too good to pass. Chemistry goes out the window for now if it means possibly having a much stronger lineup for years to come.

I loved his game at Duke, though I did notice he had some terrible shooting games which didn't make sense being a post player. I didn't watch him much this year. I think he could be a great player so he's worth taking on and I think (or thought) his incidents off the court were overblown until I saw the video.

I think it is ok to wait though, and we still would need to unload another center. I wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade until after that happens because it just wouldn't work out well. We'd have another disgruntled player unless we tried to play one at PF which would be ill advised.

Ultimately it depends on the price, but at this point, since there doesn't seem to be much interest in him, I'd wait until the season starts and see how our team looks. Maybe Len improves and gets back to form not playing 4 and playing with Bledsoe and Booker instead of Goodwin, Price and occasionally Knight.

Woah I actually didn't realize there was a video until you just said that. What hole have I lived in for the past 6 months..? Just saw it and yeah it looks really bad. Looks like he's caught up with some really bad characters and that's hard to move past. After the Morris debacle even I'm far more hesitant taking him after seeing this. Could be a cancer for the team.

That being said I DID see a lot of his game last season, and he is as dominant of an offensive force as he his worrisome off the court. So young but he's got a great post game already, with advanced double moves and even a mid-range jumpshot. Has size and athleticism but also great body control - he's very good at staying on balance and keeping the ball high during step-throughs and spin moves. I think the dude can be one of the best offensive bigs in the game, and I think he can improve on defense to at least not be a turnstyle. I also think that the fit can be pretty great with us, especially if we can play one of Chriss or Bender as a stretch 4. Jahlil could be a true shot creator down low - something we're in real need of - and the spacing he gives up can be more than made up for by the rest of the lineup (assuming Bender and Chriss pan out).

I understand why you're hesitant taking him, and the off-court issues bother me too, but if it's for one of our combo guards I'd still take it. Not only can Jahlil dramatically improve our offense, but he can clear the logjam for guys like Ulis to step in as backup, and Booker to cement himself as the undisputed starting SG.

Well I think we are pretty much in agreement now. I feel the same way you do that he could be an offensive force, but that video was eye opening, and after Markieff, I just think our front office and Sarver might have a VERY tough time trading for him. I imagine Knight would be the guy or at least part of the trade and I know feelings are mixed on him here, but McD seems very high on him.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Okafor along with Bledsoe and Booker will likely get the Max, so it would be them and 12 cheap role players to win a championship. I think there's probably better strategies.

[JTrain]

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[bwgood77]

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Long time no see JTrain. Funny stuff.

[NTB]

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[sleepyvato]

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When I first saw this on ESPN, I didn't realize they where talking about Butler and I really thought for a second that Booker was in huge trouble. I started getting flashbacks of the Morris twins and started cursing them for influencing Booker who is now following in their criminal footsteps.

[NavLDO]

I have been thinking about this. I have not been a big Okafor fan, but his value seems to have plummetted too far. This could be a buy low moment.

Sure I'd trade Knight for him but unless we dump another center we'd be a little clogged at that position. It seems we have good chemistry tight now and high character guys so I kind of doubt they'd want to take a risk on a guy that may have character issues. Don't know that we need another guy who has put a beating on people. We also really need better rim protectors at that spot.

I agree that at this point, we need to roll with what we got for chemistry reasons. I'm curious to see how it turns out. It seems the Suns are not 100% set on going with a stretch 4 smallball lineup given their interest in Milsap, but I can understand their concerns over Okafor due to gambles on Beasley, Keef, and a few others that were disasters.

I think Okafor could have a breakout season. I also think he could get buried (especially if Embiid is healthy) and get into trouble.

But I think that if by mideason we are struggling with interior scoring, Knight isn't enjoying his 6th man role, and Ulis looks like he is ready to be our backup PG of the future, then I'd hope a Knight for Okafor swap would still be on the table.

...or...I'd be fine with:

Knight for Holmes
Knight for Grant
Knight for Covington
Pick + Knight for Noel
Knight for Thompson
Pick + Knight for Saric
Knight for Luwawu
Knight for Landry + pick

Point being, the Sixers have so many options, and seeing that I view Knight, at best, as a 6th man, I think those values above are ok. I doubt they part with Noel or Saric or Luwawu, and they seem to like Holmes and Grant, maybe those are all 'off-the-table', but that still leaves Covington, Thompson, and Landry--all guys I'd rather have than Knight right now.

My opinion may change if he pulls his head out and starts playing team ball as our back-up PG, but somehow, I don't see that as being 'ok with' Knight. I think he still has delusions of grandeur, and I certainly hope Watson doesn't placate Knight and starts him over Booker...

[bwgood77]

Sure I'd trade Knight for him but unless we dump another center we'd be a little clogged at that position. It seems we have good chemistry tight now and high character guys so I kind of doubt they'd want to take a risk on a guy that may have character issues. Don't know that we need another guy who has put a beating on people. We also really need better rim protectors at that spot.

I agree that at this point, we need to roll with what we got for chemistry reasons. I'm curious to see how it turns out. It seems the Suns are not 100% set on going with a stretch 4 smallball lineup given their interest in Milsap, but I can understand their concerns over Okafor due to gambles on Beasley, Keef, and a few others that were disasters.

I think Okafor could have a breakout season. I also think he could get buried (especially if Embiid is healthy) and get into trouble.

But I think that if by mideason we are struggling with interior scoring, Knight isn't enjoying his 6th man role, and Ulis looks like he is ready to be our backup PG of the future, then I'd hope a Knight for Okafor swap would still be on the table.

...or...I'd be fine with:

Knight for Holmes
Knight for Grant
Knight for Covington
Pick + Knight for Noel
Knight for Thompson
Pick + Knight for Saric
Knight for Luwawu
Knight for Landry + pick

Point being, the Sixers have so many options, and seeing that I view Knight, at best, as a 6th man, I think those values above are ok. I doubt they part with Noel or Saric or Luwawu, and they seem to like Holmes and Grant, maybe those are all 'off-the-table', but that still leaves Covington, Thompson, and Landry--all guys I'd rather have than Knight right now.

My opinion may change if he pulls his head out and starts playing team ball as our back-up PG, but somehow, I don't see that as being 'ok with' Knight. I think he still has delusions of grandeur, and I certainly hope Watson doesn't placate Knight and starts him over Booker...

Wow, Holmes, Grant, Landry and Thompson? I haven't seen them much but you must really have a low opinion on Knight. Who knows what Luwawu will end up doing. That would be risky.

[MrMiyagi]

Sure I'd trade Knight for him but unless we dump another center we'd be a little clogged at that position. It seems we have good chemistry tight now and high character guys so I kind of doubt they'd want to take a risk on a guy that may have character issues. Don't know that we need another guy who has put a beating on people. We also really need better rim protectors at that spot.

I agree that at this point, we need to roll with what we got for chemistry reasons. I'm curious to see how it turns out. It seems the Suns are not 100% set on going with a stretch 4 smallball lineup given their interest in Milsap, but I can understand their concerns over Okafor due to gambles on Beasley, Keef, and a few others that were disasters.

I think Okafor could have a breakout season. I also think he could get buried (especially if Embiid is healthy) and get into trouble.

But I think that if by mideason we are struggling with interior scoring, Knight isn't enjoying his 6th man role, and Ulis looks like he is ready to be our backup PG of the future, then I'd hope a Knight for Okafor swap would still be on the table.

...or...I'd be fine with:

Knight for Holmes
Knight for Grant
Knight for Covington
Pick + Knight for Noel
Knight for Thompson
Pick + Knight for Saric
Knight for Luwawu
Knight for Landry + pick

Point being, the Sixers have so many options, and seeing that I view Knight, at best, as a 6th man, I think those values above are ok. I doubt they part with Noel or Saric or Luwawu, and they seem to like Holmes and Grant, maybe those are all 'off-the-table', but that still leaves Covington, Thompson, and Landry--all guys I'd rather have than Knight right now.

My opinion may change if he pulls his head out and starts playing team ball as our back-up PG, but somehow, I don't see that as being 'ok with' Knight. I think he still has delusions of grandeur, and I certainly hope Watson doesn't placate Knight and starts him over Booker...

Some of you are way too salty on Brandon Knight.

If you plug Bradley Beal into those scenarios, do you see fair value? Knight really isn't too far off in value IMO (though admittedly lower), especially given the difference in money they're getting.

[bwgood77]

Some of you are way too salty on Brandon Knight.

If you plug Bradley Beal into those scenarios, do you see fair value? Knight really isn't too far off in value IMO (though admittedly lower), especially given the difference in money they're getting.

I really don't know what to think of Knight, but I'd like to see him healthy on a completely healthy team for a number of games. He was so disappointing to me at the end of Detroit and Memphis games last year and after that he just never seemed like he could lead a team running PG that it was tough to be excited with him, particularly having given up that pick for him. But if he is part of a second unit or always playing with an improved Booker or Bledsoe he will probably look much better.

[darealjuice]

Some of those proposed trades are pretty bad. Knight for Luwawu would be the same thing as trading him for the 24th in the draft last year after seeing him play poorly in SL, which I would literally never do. Only players I'm interested in on the Sixers are Noel and to a much lesser extent Covington. If we're trading Knight then we're going to get value for him, we're not going to dump him to the Sixers for their extra pieces.

[OGBAH]

Boogie
Bender
Hayward
Booker
Bledsoe

Thoughts on this potential line up

[bwgood77]

Boogie
Bender
Hayward
Booker
Bledsoe

Thoughts on this potential line up

My thoughts are that it will never happen. Other than that, looks great.

[MrMiyagi]

Some of you are way too salty on Brandon Knight.

If you plug Bradley Beal into those scenarios, do you see fair value? Knight really isn't too far off in value IMO (though admittedly lower), especially given the difference in money they're getting.

I really don't know what to think of Knight, but I'd like to see him healthy on a completely healthy team for a number of games. He was so disappointing to me at the end of Detroit and Memphis games last year and after that he just never seemed like he could lead a team running PG that it was tough to be excited with him, particularly having given up that pick for him. But if he is part of a second unit or always playing with an improved Booker or Bledsoe he will probably look much better.

I actually think for those first 30 games, Knight was very good. After Bledsoe went down, he unravelled.

Knight with Bledsoe:
7.2/16.6 FG/FGA 43.2% FG% 2.3/6.5 3pt/3ptA 35.1% 3pt% 1.4 steals 104 ORtg 108 DRtg 54.1% TS% 50.1% eFG%

Knight without Bledsoe:
7.0/18.0 FG/FGA 39.3% FG% 2.3/7.1 3pt/3ptA 32.9% 3pt% .9 steals 96 ORtg 114 DRtg 49.6% TS% 45.5% eFG%

[bwgood77]

Some of you are way too salty on Brandon Knight.

If you plug Bradley Beal into those scenarios, do you see fair value? Knight really isn't too far off in value IMO (though admittedly lower), especially given the difference in money they're getting.

I really don't know what to think of Knight, but I'd like to see him healthy on a completely healthy team for a number of games. He was so disappointing to me at the end of Detroit and Memphis games last year and after that he just never seemed like he could lead a team running PG that it was tough to be excited with him, particularly having given up that pick for him. But if he is part of a second unit or always playing with an improved Booker or Bledsoe he will probably look much better.

I actually think for those first 30 games, Knight was very good. After Bledsoe went down, he unravelled.

Knight with Bledsoe:
7.2/16.6 FG/FGA 43.2% FG% 2.3/6.5 3pt/3ptA 35.1% 3pt% 1.4 steals 104 ORtg 108 DRtg 54.1% TS% 50.1% eFG%

Knight without Bledsoe:
7.0/18.0 FG/FGA 39.3% FG% 2.3/7.1 3pt/3ptA 32.9% 3pt% .9 steals 96 ORtg 114 DRtg 49.6% TS% 45.5% eFG%

Those shooting #s don't look particularly good to me. Not for a starter. Maybe for a sixth man. What killed me the most was decision making in key moments and over dribbling and jacking up long 2s. He turns those long 2s into 3 pt shots, he likely improves both percentages and maybe gets to like 46 and 38.

[MrMiyagi]

I really don't know what to think of Knight, but I'd like to see him healthy on a completely healthy team for a number of games. He was so disappointing to me at the end of Detroit and Memphis games last year and after that he just never seemed like he could lead a team running PG that it was tough to be excited with him, particularly having given up that pick for him. But if he is part of a second unit or always playing with an improved Booker or Bledsoe he will probably look much better.

I actually think for those first 30 games, Knight was very good. After Bledsoe went down, he unravelled.

Knight with Bledsoe:
7.2/16.6 FG/FGA 43.2% FG% 2.3/6.5 3pt/3ptA 35.1% 3pt% 1.4 steals 104 ORtg 108 DRtg 54.1% TS% 50.1% eFG%

Knight without Bledsoe:
7.0/18.0 FG/FGA 39.3% FG% 2.3/7.1 3pt/3ptA 32.9% 3pt% .9 steals 96 ORtg 114 DRtg 49.6% TS% 45.5% eFG%

Those shooting #s don't look particularly good to me. Not for a starter. Maybe for a sixth man. What killed me the most was decision making in key moments and over dribbling and jacking up long 2s. He turns those long 2s into 3 pt shots, he likely improves both percentages and maybe gets to like 46 and 38.

And to me, that's a fixable thing. He shot 48.5% on 2pt FGs with Bledsoe and 43.1% without him.

And you're right about those long twos, he took made 70/188 (37.2%) from 16ft+ 2pt attempts.

Something people might not know about Knight though, he was damn good finisher inside of 10 ft (53.7%, 62.4% at the rim), but only took 47 more shots inside of 10 ft (296) than outside of 10ft on 2pt FGs (249).

[letsgosuns]

Boogie
Bender
Hayward
Booker
Bledsoe

Thoughts on this potential line up

I do not think that is out of the realm of possibility. I still think Cousins is nuts but he is arguably the best center in the league. The Suns will be one of the teams that has max cap space next Summer so they should be in the mix for max free agents. Personally I am just not a fan of Hayward. I would much rather have Cousins on the team if I had to choose between the two.

I was thinking about it and I believe the Suns are in a prime position to trade for a superstar. I think the only untouchable players on the roster are Booker, Bender, and Chriss. Booker for obvious reasons. Bender because McDonough has wanted him for years and his skill set at his height is rare. And I think Chriss too because the Suns worked so hard to acquire him so I doubt they consider trading him.

[NavLDO]

I agree that at this point, we need to roll with what we got for chemistry reasons. I'm curious to see how it turns out. It seems the Suns are not 100% set on going with a stretch 4 smallball lineup given their interest in Milsap, but I can understand their concerns over Okafor due to gambles on Beasley, Keef, and a few others that were disasters.

I think Okafor could have a breakout season. I also think he could get buried (especially if Embiid is healthy) and get into trouble.

But I think that if by mideason we are struggling with interior scoring, Knight isn't enjoying his 6th man role, and Ulis looks like he is ready to be our backup PG of the future, then I'd hope a Knight for Okafor swap would still be on the table.

...or...I'd be fine with:

Knight for Holmes
Knight for Grant
Knight for Covington
Pick + Knight for Noel
Knight for Thompson
Pick + Knight for Saric
Knight for Luwawu
Knight for Landry + pick

Point being, the Sixers have so many options, and seeing that I view Knight, at best, as a 6th man, I think those values above are ok. I doubt they part with Noel or Saric or Luwawu, and they seem to like Holmes and Grant, maybe those are all 'off-the-table', but that still leaves Covington, Thompson, and Landry--all guys I'd rather have than Knight right now.

My opinion may change if he pulls his head out and starts playing team ball as our back-up PG, but somehow, I don't see that as being 'ok with' Knight. I think he still has delusions of grandeur, and I certainly hope Watson doesn't placate Knight and starts him over Booker...

Wow, Holmes, Grant, Landry and Thompson? I haven't seen them much but you must really have a low opinion on Knight. Who knows what Luwawu will end up doing. That would be risky.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=thompho01&y2=2016&p2=holmeri01&y3=2016&p3=grantje01&y4=2016&p4=landrca01&y5=2016&p5=knighbr03&p6=

The only Guard of the bunch with the lowest ORtg, the worst, by more than double his next competitor in TOV, and a multitude of other follies...yeah.

Hollis Thompson is the only one that that you kinda go hmmm...but his lowest 3PT% was last year at 38%. And these are all players on a much worse team.

So I would likely ask for a pick back as well, but yeah, I'd make that deal considering team make-up, and Knight actually looking worse than his stats.