Phoenix offseason in review on the Trade board

[HartfordWhalers]

As part of a series of offseasons in review -- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1467470 -- a few of us on the trade board have been doing, today was Phoenix's turn for a review. So please feel free to swing by and tell us what we got right and wrong, and what you think about Phoenix's offseason here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1472844

In general the reviews were very positive: 1 A, 2 A-, 1 B+, 1 B- (with a B+ for what they did and the minus for not making more moves). And thanks bwgood77 for weighing in as well!

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

As part of a series of offseasons in review -- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1467470 -- a few of us on the trade board have been doing, today was Phoenix's turn for a review. So please feel free to swing by and tell us what we got right and wrong, and what you think about Phoenix's offseason here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1472844

In general the reviews were very positive: 1 A, 2 A-, 1 B+, 1 B- (with a B+ for what they did and the minus for not making more moves). And thanks bwgood77 for weighing in as well!

I think it's ridiculous that none of these reviewers had TJ in the starting lineup. Not. One. And I've yet to hear anything approaching a meaningful rationale. People just say it. I make what I believe are compelling arguments, and in response just, "No."

Makes me think I should just make a bet with the board on this question. Has anyone ever done that? Like with paypal or something? I'd be happy to bet everyone $10 even odds, up to 10 people.

[HartfordWhalers]

As part of a series of offseasons in review -- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1467470 -- a few of us on the trade board have been doing, today was Phoenix's turn for a review. So please feel free to swing by and tell us what we got right and wrong, and what you think about Phoenix's offseason here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1472844

In general the reviews were very positive: 1 A, 2 A-, 1 B+, 1 B- (with a B+ for what they did and the minus for not making more moves). And thanks bwgood77 for weighing in as well!

I think it's ridiculous that none of these reviewers had TJ in the starting lineup. Not. One. And I've yet to hear anything approaching a meaningful rationale. People just say it. I make what I believe are compelling arguments, and in response just, "No."

Makes me think I should just make a bet with the board on this question. Has anyone ever done that? Like with paypal or something? I'd be happy to bet everyone $10 even odds, up to 10 people.

I don't see Warren starting the season as the starter. I also don't see Tucker finishing the season as the starter either. I veered from the others and had Phoenix moving Tucker to the bench immediately, but instead of promoting Warren (or playing Dudley out of position) I had the lineup starting all 3 guards to start the season. Tucker starting is probably the safer bet.

And if you have compelling arguments, by all means make them there. As of now, they aren't there.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

As part of a series of offseasons in review -- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1467470 -- a few of us on the trade board have been doing, today was Phoenix's turn for a review. So please feel free to swing by and tell us what we got right and wrong, and what you think about Phoenix's offseason here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1472844

In general the reviews were very positive: 1 A, 2 A-, 1 B+, 1 B- (with a B+ for what they did and the minus for not making more moves). And thanks bwgood77 for weighing in as well!

I think it's ridiculous that none of these reviewers had TJ in the starting lineup. Not. One. And I've yet to hear anything approaching a meaningful rationale. People just say it. I make what I believe are compelling arguments, and in response just, "No."

Makes me think I should just make a bet with the board on this question. Has anyone ever done that? Like with paypal or something? I'd be happy to bet everyone $10 even odds, up to 10 people.

I don't see Warren starting the season as the starter. I also don't see Tucker finishing the season as the starter either. I veered from the others and had Phoenix moving Tucker to the bench immediately, but instead of promoting Warren (or playing Dudley out of position) I had the lineup starting all 3 guards to start the season. Tucker starting is probably the safer bet.

And if you have compelling arguments, by all means make them there. As of now, they aren't there.

My wisdom lives here. Besides, the reviewers (other than yourselves) are all stationed here, and if they had wanted to pose a counterargument this board would serve them just fine. Just reiterating my frustration.

[HartfordWhalers]

I think it's ridiculous that none of these reviewers had TJ in the starting lineup. Not. One. And I've yet to hear anything approaching a meaningful rationale. People just say it. I make what I believe are compelling arguments, and in response just, "No."

Makes me think I should just make a bet with the board on this question. Has anyone ever done that? Like with paypal or something? I'd be happy to bet everyone $10 even odds, up to 10 people.

I don't see Warren starting the season as the starter. I also don't see Tucker finishing the season as the starter either. I veered from the others and had Phoenix moving Tucker to the bench immediately, but instead of promoting Warren (or playing Dudley out of position) I had the lineup starting all 3 guards to start the season. Tucker starting is probably the safer bet.

And if you have compelling arguments, by all means make them there. As of now, they aren't there.

My wisdom lives here. Besides, the reviewers (other than yourselves) are all stationed here, and if they had wanted to pose a counterargument this board would serve them just fine. Just reiterating my frustration.

There are 2 OKC fans and 1 Laker fan, I dunno how often they really do post here. Similarly, the readers of that forum might not.

For what its worth, I took Warren as my pick for biggest breakout next year in value increase -- viewtopic.php?p=48808190#p48808190

I just don't see him handed the keys to the starting sf slot on day 1.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I don't see Warren starting the season as the starter. I also don't see Tucker finishing the season as the starter either. I veered from the others and had Phoenix moving Tucker to the bench immediately, but instead of promoting Warren (or playing Dudley out of position) I had the lineup starting all 3 guards to start the season. Tucker starting is probably the safer bet.

And if you have compelling arguments, by all means make them there. As of now, they aren't there.

My wisdom lives here. Besides, the reviewers (other than yourselves) are all stationed here, and if they had wanted to pose a counterargument this board would serve them just fine. Just reiterating my frustration.

There are 2 OKC fans and 1 Laker fan, I dunno how often they really do post here. Similarly, the readers of that forum might not.

For what its worth, I took Warren as my pick for biggest breakout next year in value increase -- viewtopic.php?p=48808190#p48808190

I just don't see him handed the keys to the starting sf slot on day 1.

That is worth something. You appear to have more insight than many of his own team's fans!

[bwgood77]

I think it's ridiculous that none of these reviewers had TJ in the starting lineup. Not. One. And I've yet to hear anything approaching a meaningful rationale. People just say it. I make what I believe are compelling arguments, and in response just, "No."

Makes me think I should just make a bet with the board on this question. Has anyone ever done that? Like with paypal or something? I'd be happy to bet everyone $10 even odds, up to 10 people.

I don't see Warren starting the season as the starter. I also don't see Tucker finishing the season as the starter either. I veered from the others and had Phoenix moving Tucker to the bench immediately, but instead of promoting Warren (or playing Dudley out of position) I had the lineup starting all 3 guards to start the season. Tucker starting is probably the safer bet.

And if you have compelling arguments, by all means make them there. As of now, they aren't there.

My wisdom lives here. Besides, the reviewers (other than yourselves) are all stationed here, and if they had wanted to pose a counterargument this board would serve them just fine. Just reiterating my frustration.

To be fair, I think the original depth chart was used from another site (not just typed out) and some may have altered while others didn't. The main effort went into the write up and doing it for every team, they just each gave a different perspective.

I don't think many NBA fans that are not Suns fans have seen much Warren. He didn't play a ton as a rookie and was injured most of last year, and didn't start before that. I know many here want him to start, and will be mad if/when he doesn't, but I don't expect him to start, particularly at the beginning of the season, especially coming off an injury. Not only that, but they might want to build up trade value for Tucker and he will likely retain more value as a starter.

One more thing, the OKC reviewers there are pretty high on Tucker and think he would be a nice fit there, particularly with Durant gone, but even prior to that, they thought they could use a player like him, and they are probably right. So they are looking at it from a different perspective. Warren has also NEVER shown much defensively. I know many of us are SUPER high on him. He's one of my favorite two players on the team, but most who don't watch every Suns game haven't seen much of him. Tucker always plays a ton more against the really good teams like OKC the last few years so that is what they have seen. They've probably only seen Warren play against the Thunder once or twice ever. And the Suns don't play on national tv often, if at all, so they probably haven't seen much of him period.

Keep in mind one team's die hard fans are going to have far stronger opinions than fans of other teams, particularly regarding young guys. They are REALLY high on Payne. Do you know much about Payne? Are you really high on him? Personally I don't know much about him and OKC is probably my second favorite team. I think Price will be good for him. Booker gave him a shoutout the other day on twitter about how he was great or something taking him under his wing.

Oh, and about depth charts, look at this. http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Phoenix-Suns/23/Rosters/Regular

I mentioned that should be changed. I really don't know how they came up with some of those.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Keep in mind one team's die hard fans are going to have far stronger opinions than fans of other teams, particularly regarding young guys. They are REALLY high on Payne. Do you know much about Payne? Are you really high on him? Personally I don't know much about him and OKC is probably my second favorite team. I think Price will be good for him. Booker gave him a shoutout the other day on twitter about how he was great or something taking him under his wing.

I was higher on Payne during the regular season than I am today. He didn't impress me with his summer league play this offseason (my expectation were pretty high). Which is to say - I think he'll be a solid NBA player with a long career, and possibly even a starter for a few seasons, but I don't think he'll be a long-term starter for a top team. There are a lot of good point guards in the league, and he seems to have a solid mix of playmaking and scoring ability, but I don't see elite qualities.

I always take it seriously when fans of other teams are optimistic about their players, because they see a lot more of their players than I do. And you don't hear Magic fans fawning over Elfrid Payton - which is to say, not every take is a homer's. I appreciate that HartfordWhalers seems to think TJ will break out. I think he's right. I think he averages 20 PPG next year.

Tucker needs to go. If to OKC, perfect. But if that were intended, why hasn't it happened already? And if it isn't intended, why not? Ryan remains an angler, I guess.

Thanks for providing a more substantive response re: Warren, btw. I still disagree, but at least I now can do so respectfully.

[bondom34]

FWIW the depth charts were from Basketball Insiders, with edits made. Personally I feel Tucker and Dudley will be given starting roles to start the season, until more of a youth movement goes into effect. I think Tucker could be moved but a bit of a showcase could be made with him starting. Loved the offseason though, I was an A-.

[lilfishi22]

Anything above a B would be about right.

I like Slava's comment regarding trading for Chriss.

I'm not sure if Chriss will end up being a star but I'd happily take a flier on an athletic freak with good shooting mechanics especially with a spare pick in the top 10

We could've stayed pat and drafted someone further down the draft and kept Bogdan (who I'm more sad to see traded post-Rio) but we decided to make moves for a guy we liked. Our plan the last few years was to use our assets to pick up a disgruntled (star) player but this is a lower risk, lower trade-off and potentially higher return move. I'm not sure Chriss ends up being a star either but for what we gave up for him, it's a good move.

I'm also surprised, although I shouldn't be, by the love Bender is getting from mods of other teams. I was more sceptical than most on here so it's reassuring to see positivity about the pick from non-Suns fans.

[Frank Lee]

I don't know how you can give us any grade other than an 'incomplete'.

We made no significant proven additions via trade or free agency. All we got was a combined 36 yrs of rookie... They could be a bust as much as a boom. Looks like a hedged bet to me.

I guess may be some of you gomer homers are giving high marks for 'not doin anything stupid' ?

[MrMiyagi]

I don't know how you can give us any grade other than an 'incomplete'.

We made no significant proven additions via trade or free agency. All we got was a combined 36 yrs of rookie... They could be a bust as much as a boom. Looks like a hedged bet to me.

I guess may be some of you gomer homers are giving high marks for 'not doin anything stupid' ?

Hey Frank, tires are filled with air too, you going to throw road spikes on the I17 to prove the point?

[Frank Lee]

You know me Myag... I don't consider rookies as difference makers. But I get optimism. There's been so little to hype/hope with this squad. Look at the god like status Booker has around here. I swear he could fart through a whistle and 75% of y'all would make it your ringtone

[Andre Roberstan]

As part of a series of offseasons in review -- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1467470 -- a few of us on the trade board have been doing, today was Phoenix's turn for a review. So please feel free to swing by and tell us what we got right and wrong, and what you think about Phoenix's offseason here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1472844

In general the reviews were very positive: 1 A, 2 A-, 1 B+, 1 B- (with a B+ for what they did and the minus for not making more moves). And thanks bwgood77 for weighing in as well!

I think it's ridiculous that none of these reviewers had TJ in the starting lineup. Not. One. And I've yet to hear anything approaching a meaningful rationale. People just say it. I make what I believe are compelling arguments, and in response just, "No."

Makes me think I should just make a bet with the board on this question. Has anyone ever done that? Like with paypal or something? I'd be happy to bet everyone $10 even odds, up to 10 people.

I thought I mentioned in my review that he was the likely starter. If I didn't I meant to. I've been high on TJ since he came into the league, at least as a scorer. He just knows how to put the ball in the hoop.

[bwgood77]

I don't know how you can give us any grade other than an 'incomplete'.

We made no significant proven additions via trade or free agency. All we got was a combined 36 yrs of rookie... They could be a bust as much as a boom. Looks like a hedged bet to me.

I guess may be some of you gomer homers are giving high marks for 'not doin anything stupid' ?

In relation to other teams, we didn't make any really dumb overpriced free agent signings, which, in relation to other teams, helps. Also, just getting two top 8 picks and along with the best pg in college ball last year via some advanced stats, is a solid draft as well.

[Smitty731]

You know me Myag... I don't consider rookies as difference makers. But I get optimism. There's been so little to hype/hope with this squad. Look at the god like status Booker has around here. I swear he could fart through a whistle and 75% of y'all would make it your ringtone

I have no interest in joining the debate, but I had to comment that the "fart through a whistle" comment has had me laughing really hard for a while now. Amazing line.

Pure gold. Well done sir. Well done.

[bwgood77]

You know me Myag... I don't consider rookies as difference makers. But I get optimism. There's been so little to hype/hope with this squad. Look at the god like status Booker has around here. I swear he could fart through a whistle and 75% of y'all would make it your ringtone

I have no interest in joining the debate, but I had to comment that the "fart through a whistle" comment has had me laughing really hard for a while now. Amazing line.

Pure gold. Well done sir. Well done.

He's had some great ones over the years. If you want to have a great laugh, you should read a few pages of our fantasy draft for our low level league from 2015. Every time I read it it brings tears to my eyes I laugh so hard. I have it bookmarked.

[Moochthemonkey]

I swear he could fart through a whistle and 75% of y'all would make it your ringtone

you can't put this thread back on the rails with a comment like that...I think I just busted a rib laughing

[bwgood77]

I swear he could fart through a whistle and 75% of y'all would make it your ringtone

you can't put this thread back on the rails with a comment like that...I think I just busted a rib laughing

Yes, it's a great one. I had to show that to a few and even tell my brother about it. That should be logged into the funniest things read on the forum thread.