Sacramento early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Slava)

[BadWolf]

How would you rate their draft if they'd taken Skal at 13 (projected in that range), Malachi at 22 and Papagiannis at 28?

[Andre Roberstan]

How would you rate their draft if they'd taken Skal at 13 (projected in that range), Malachi at 22 and Papagiannis at 28?

Probably the same. It still seems weird taking 2 big men when PG is so thin and your best player and best young prospect are big men.

[Kings2013]

How would you rate their draft if they'd taken Skal at 13 (projected in that range), Malachi at 22 and Papagiannis at 28?

Probably the same. It still seems weird taking 2 big men when PG is so thin and your best player and best young prospect are big men.

Not a lot of choice in the draft that range though. They had Baldwin in. He was really the only potential lottery pick that came by if I recalled, and they didn't like him and he didn't look good in summer league. I liked Jackson and he went clear to the second round. The FO was hesitant about Valentines injury issues for a lotto pick, and that takes you back to the range of our second pick.

Papagiannis was a big kid who came to the fore when he did some work outs (videos available online) of him stroking outside shots like a guard at 18. I'm not going to defend the pick at all but Vlade must have seen something he thought he can mold, if there were no guards in the range you were high on

If you didn't think guards were available that could contribute in your mind, might go upside and fill the need another way

[Texas Chuck]

How would you rate their draft if they'd taken Skal at 13 (projected in that range), Malachi at 22 and Papagiannis at 28?

Probably the same. It still seems weird taking 2 big men when PG is so thin and your best player and best young prospect are big men.

If you didn't think guards were available that could contribute in your mind, might go upside and fill the need another way

Yeah I mean it would have been nice if they could have picked up some perimeter talent, but if the value on the board based on your pre-draft work is at center then I think you have to take the center. If a year from now the Kings have a bunch of young talented bigs well that's potentially an enviable position either as Boogie leaving insurance or as attractive trade chips to address perimeter needs.

It would be nice if they could flip Koufos for a guard, but I think that's just creating another short-term hole because I don't know that the guys they drafted are remotely ready to help with a playoff push. I guess at the deadline if the Kings are out of it maybe they can turn Gay and/or Koufos into a young guard or another draft pick. Of course then you are in serious issues with what to do with Cousins with only a year left and still no sign of the playoffs.

Kings really need Collison to not miss many games and to continue to hold up as a starter and the grab bag of mediocre guards around him to get coached up by Joerger and benefit from the open shots Cousins should generate.

But tough year for the Kings with them needing a lot of things to go right that don't seem likely to atm.

[basketballwacko2]

The trade down from 8 to 13 should bring more than the #28 pick.

It did. 8 for 13, 28, future 2nd, and the rights to bogdanovic who could easily be the best player in this deal.

2nd round picks don't do much for me. If Bogdanovic turns out to be the best player in the deal God help the Kings.

[pacers33granger]

For those saying that they should have got in on the Hill/Teague deal, what's the chances that either resigns next off-season? If they had done it I'd expect a lot of "wasting a lotto pick on a rental" talk.

[Mystical Apples]

How would you rate their draft if they'd taken Skal at 13 (projected in that range), Malachi at 22 and Papagiannis at 28?

Outside of a few popular publications Skal was closer to 20's, Richardson early to mid 2nd, and Papagiannis late 2nd to UD. Again, not awful in isolation but in totality leaves the impression a former player is running the FO without leaning on his analytics department.

[HartfordWhalers]

For those saying that they should have got in on the Hill/Teague deal, what's the chances that either resigns next off-season? If they had done it I'd expect a lot of "wasting a lotto pick on a rental" talk.

If they don't get a guy that good next year in free agency, what is the chance that Cousins stays? It might mean paying Teague an ugly ugly salary, but I think you could lock him up next year with his Bird rights and just overpaying. And I think Sacramento because of their situation should either take that chance, or sign all young guys and plan for a post Cousins world.

After all, Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later ...

Watch on YouTube

[pacers33granger]

For those saying that they should have got in on the Hill/Teague deal, what's the chances that either resigns next off-season? If they had done it I'd expect a lot of "wasting a lotto pick on a rental" talk.

If they don't get a guy that good next year in free agency, what is the chance that Cousins stays? It might mean paying Teague an ugly ugly salary, but I think you could lock him up next year with his Bird rights and just overpaying. And I think Sacramento because of their situation should either take that chance, or sign all young guys and plan for a post Cousins world.

After all, Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later ...

Watch on YouTube

Yeah I can get that. You want to do everything you can to maximize keeping Cousins. It's a tough call really though because you could easily end up having Cousins walk anyways and have less young talent and a wildly overpaid Teague (or Hill). Or Teague walks and it's another nail in the coffin for Cousins leaving. I mean, even if this season went well with Teague and both he and Gay walk I see no way Cousins sticks around at all.

I also think they expected to be fine with Collison starting (I believe the DV incident happened after the draft, but I could be mistaken) and might not have seen Teague or Hill as that big of an upgrade (which I would disagree with). Still odd they haven't gone harder after some semblance of a backup PG though.

[Kings2013]

How would you rate their draft if they'd taken Skal at 13 (projected in that range), Malachi at 22 and Papagiannis at 28?

Outside of a few popular publications Skal was closer to 20's, Richardson early to mid 2nd, and Papagiannis late 2nd to UD. Again, not awful in isolation but in totality leaves the impression a former player is running the FO without leaning on his analytics department.

Not true for Skal/Malachi, or even Georgios by draft night. Georgios was a stretch at 13 admittedly, but was gaining to the point Vlade didn't feel safe with him at 22 after workouts

Nbadraft/draft express had both 17 or higher (Skal/Malachi)

[Kings2013]

For those saying that they should have got in on the Hill/Teague deal, what's the chances that either resigns next off-season? If they had done it I'd expect a lot of "wasting a lotto pick on a rental" talk.

If they don't get a guy that good next year in free agency, what is the chance that Cousins stays? It might mean paying Teague an ugly ugly salary, but I think you could lock him up next year with his Bird rights and just overpaying. And I think Sacramento because of their situation should either take that chance, or sign all young guys and plan for a post Cousins world.

After all, Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later ...

Watch on YouTube

Or a third option. Vlade could believe DC to be in the general ball park of those two talent wise, a proven fit with our core, who has made known his desire to start? But maybe I'm off

[HartfordWhalers]

For those saying that they should have got in on the Hill/Teague deal, what's the chances that either resigns next off-season? If they had done it I'd expect a lot of "wasting a lotto pick on a rental" talk.

If they don't get a guy that good next year in free agency, what is the chance that Cousins stays? It might mean paying Teague an ugly ugly salary, but I think you could lock him up next year with his Bird rights and just overpaying. And I think Sacramento because of their situation should either take that chance, or sign all young guys and plan for a post Cousins world.

After all, Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later ...

Watch on YouTube

Or a third option. Vlade could believe DC to be in the general ball park of those two talent wise, a proven fit with our core, who has made known his desire to start? But maybe I'm off

I hope you are right!

[Mystical Apples]

How would you rate their draft if they'd taken Skal at 13 (projected in that range), Malachi at 22 and Papagiannis at 28?

Outside of a few popular publications Skal was closer to 20's, Richardson early to mid 2nd, and Papagiannis late 2nd to UD. Again, not awful in isolation but in totality leaves the impression a former player is running the FO without leaning on his analytics department.

Not true for Skal/Malachi, or even Georgios by draft night. Georgios was a stretch at 13 admittedly, but was gaining to the point Vlade didn't feel safe with him at 22 after workouts

Nbadraft/draft express had both 17 or higher (Skal/Malachi)

Yeah that's what I meant by popular publications that are susceptible to group-think. Consensus models/scouts had them much lower.

[HartfordWhalers]

Outside of a few popular publications Skal was closer to 20's, Richardson early to mid 2nd, and Papagiannis late 2nd to UD. Again, not awful in isolation but in totality leaves the impression a former player is running the FO without leaning on his analytics department.

Not true for Skal/Malachi, or even Georgios by draft night. Georgios was a stretch at 13 admittedly, but was gaining to the point Vlade didn't feel safe with him at 22 after workouts

Nbadraft/draft express had both 17 or higher (Skal/Malachi)

Yeah that's what I meant by popular publications that are susceptible to group-think. Consensus models/scouts had them much lower.

I hate to chime in on this and get further away from my perfectly appropriate Karate Kid reference, but as a reference point here is Pelton's take on those two:

PLAYER BIG BOARD WARP RK CONSENSUS RK
31. Skal Labissiere 13 0.4 53 0.9 31
37. Malachi Richardson 15 0.2 67 0.6 37

Put in English:
Skal was ranked 13th by Chad Ford, but 53rd statistically, leaving the hybrid combined model to still see him down at 31.
Malachi was ranked 15th by Chad Ford, but 67th statistically, leaving the hybrid combined model to still see him down at 37.

There is a really big gap between both picks in terms of the two components (Chad Ford scouting board versus statistical production board).

[Mystical Apples]

Not true for Skal/Malachi, or even Georgios by draft night. Georgios was a stretch at 13 admittedly, but was gaining to the point Vlade didn't feel safe with him at 22 after workouts

Nbadraft/draft express had both 17 or higher (Skal/Malachi)

Yeah that's what I meant by popular publications that are susceptible to group-think. Consensus models/scouts had them much lower.

I hate to chime in on this and get further away from my perfectly appropriate Karate Kid reference, but as a reference point here is Pelton's take on those two:

PLAYER BIG BOARD WARP RK CONSENSUS RK
31. Skal Labissiere 13 0.4 53 0.9 31
37. Malachi Richardson 15 0.2 67 0.6 37

Put in English:
Skal was ranked 13th by Chad Ford, but 53rd statistically, leaving the hybrid combined model to still see him down at 31.
Malachi was ranked 15th by Chad Ford, but 67th statistically, leaving the hybrid combined model to still see him down at 37.

There is a really big gap between both picks in terms of the two components (Chad Ford scouting board versus statistical production board).

Yeah I was trying to be diplomatic. To be fair some of the variance was from lack of overall talent but I wouldn't have taken any of them in the 1st. Cousins wasnt a good look either with GPII and VanVleet still available.

[LightTheBeam]

In no way am I hyping afflalo up as great. I'll tell you that he sure is a hell of a lot better than what we had last year. Also on the Knicks he was considered the #2 option coming into the season and then ultimately a #3 once porzingas came, but on an iso team. For us he will be used much differently were going to play inside out, he will get post opportunities, spot up shots, and he will be a 4th option even in the starting lineup. Players thrive in situations, afflalo certainly isn't that bad.

I don't think Rondo is completely useless overall, he's just completely useless on the kings. He really hurts Cousins and Gays game, we also don't have nearly enough spacing to make him work. He's a liability on offense when the ball isn't in his hands and on defense he's terrible. Addition by subtraction.

People need to realize that team composition can really affect an individuals contribution. It isn't always as cut and dry as are they good or not? They can be bad due to fit on one team bit help another team win.

I'd tend to agree that Afflalo should be better for the Kings than Rondo would have been. He should be a steady voice in the locker room and if he can shoot his career percentage from 3 while defending better than Belli he's going to be a help. And obviously getting teh culture corrected has to be paramount. Removing Karl helps. As does removing Rondo.

Just really wish the Kings could turn Koufos into a quality backup PG.

Definitely. Any combination of Koufos/Gay/Mclemore I would be fine with. I won't panic until the season gets closer!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using RealGM mobile app

[LightTheBeam]

Outside of a few popular publications Skal was closer to 20's, Richardson early to mid 2nd, and Papagiannis late 2nd to UD. Again, not awful in isolation but in totality leaves the impression a former player is running the FO without leaning on his analytics department.

Not true for Skal/Malachi, or even Georgios by draft night. Georgios was a stretch at 13 admittedly, but was gaining to the point Vlade didn't feel safe with him at 22 after workouts

Nbadraft/draft express had both 17 or higher (Skal/Malachi)

Yeah that's what I meant by popular publications that are susceptible to group-think. Consensus models/scouts had them much lower.

In other words, the two most popular and highly trusted sites had them both above 17 but because that doesn't fit your narrative they are susceptible to group think. Got it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using RealGM mobile app

[LightTheBeam]

1 thing I'd like to address. I often see people say they don't understand what direction the Kings are going in. We signed vets but traded for youth...

Let's put it this way, when the Pelicans traded for Holiday the crowd immediately jumped down their throat saying terrible move they should build for the future etc...

When the Sixers sold all their players the crowd jumped on them that this losing mentality would stick around, they don't even have any real nba players to help the young guys etc..

Why can a team not plan for both? We didn't mortgage the future with any huge long term contracts (looking at Ryan Anderson) and we picked up quality youth after the Sixers trade that really hurt our chances at bringing in youth.

I love what we did, nobody is banging on the door to come to sacramento. I get the names are not sexy, they don't stick out or look like huge impact players I get that. The thing they all do is fit a need. Temple as a defender, afflalo can score and play 2g better than anyone we had, Tolliver as a stretch 4, Barnes as a veteran winner who can change the culture. Clear cut needs, again not the best players but it's nice to see we have roles for the players we targeted and what seems like a strategy for how we will play.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using RealGM mobile app

[c3j3h]

1 thing I'd like to address. I often see people say they don't understand what direction the Kings are going in. We signed vets but traded for youth...

Let's put it this way, when the Pelicans traded for Holiday the crowd immediately jumped down their throat saying terrible move they should build for the future etc...

When the Sixers sold all their players the crowd jumped on them that this losing mentality would stick around, they don't even have any real nba players to help the young guys etc..

Why can a team not plan for both? We didn't mortgage the future with any huge long term contracts (looking at Ryan Anderson) and we picked up quality youth after the Sixers trade that really hurt our chances at bringing in youth.

I love what we did, nobody is banging on the door to come to sacramento. I get the names are not sexy, they don't stick out or look like huge impact players I get that. The thing they all do is fit a need. Temple as a defender, afflalo can score and play 2g better than anyone we had, Tolliver as a stretch 4, Barnes as a veteran winner who can change the culture. Clear cut needs, again not the best players but it's nice to see we have roles for the players we targeted and what seems like a strategy for how we will play.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using RealGM mobile app

Because they aren't committing to anything. They don't have a clear unified goal. They're just hedging their bets. It's like they know they're going to lose Boogie, and are therefore taking some precautions in that direction, but aren't committing to it. They know they have to compete to keep him, so they took some precautionary steps towards that (Afflalo/Barnes etc.), but they didn't commit to that either.

I hate to use a television show to make a point, but Mike from Breaking Bad had a great piece of advice that Vlade and co should take right now: NO HALF MEASURES! What the Kings are doing right now are 2 separate half measures, neither of which fit together at all. What they need to do is commit to one thing and pursue it to the fullest. They're currently committed to not being committed to anything. That's limbo. Not a good place to be.

[Mystical Apples]

Really, Ty Lawson?