If your favorite NBA player pulled a Kaepernick?

[nomansland]

If you were peer pressured into sticking your fist in the air instead of putting your hand on your heart, wouldn't it feel a bit weird?

[mtron929]

Also, people who support Kaepernick should be clear about something. Is it that you support him regardless of his political stance or you support him because his stance aligns with your own? That is, what if Kaepernick put on an "All Lives Matter" pre-game T-shirt and walked around the bench? It's easy to support someone when you agree with them, but much more difficult to do so if you hate their beliefs.

For me, either way politics and sports should not mix in this type of a way. Your job is to be a player and contribute to the team's success and things that go against this should (in general) be looked negatively on you as a teammate.

[Little Digger]

Kaepernick would have a hard time spelling cat even if spotted the c and the t

The uproar over this is amazing..Over the last couple years, Kaep's totally worthless as a football player..Tebow > this meathead.

[MiltownHawkeye]

you're an idiot if you think taking issue with Kap (and not even necessarily issue with his actions in this particular instance) makes someone a white supremacist. A grade A mental midget who just likes to use racial buzz words

To me the messenger matters. I don't think Kap is a great messenger.

Who specifically would you consider to be an acceptable messenger?

[Chuck Everett]

The man who wrote the national anthem was a slave owner. Yeah, I actually mute the television when it comes on. The only time I ever could tolerate it was when Marvin Gaye sang it.

Which is to say, I legit don't care about this. If Kaepernick feels this will help, so be it. The people getting mad calling him **** is funny. Twitter truly is the devil's playground.

[jreed23]

He's my new favorite football player and I don't even watch football.

[Winsome Gerbil]

If your favorite player pulled crap like that? Obviously you would find some way to justify it as being like brave and socially conscious and stuff.

If anybody else's favorite player pulled crap like that you would of course join the mob trying to drum his entitled disrespectful ass out of the league.

[Winsome Gerbil]

you're an idiot if you think taking issue with Kap (and not even necessarily issue with his actions in this particular instance) makes someone a white supremacist. A grade A mental midget who just likes to use racial buzz words

To me the messenger matters. I don't think Kap is a great messenger.

Who specifically would you consider to be an acceptable messenger?

Probably somebody who had not benefitted from the country which he is expressing disdain for to become one of its richest citizens for nothing more than the ability to throw an oddly shaped toy ball.

There are probably at least 300 million Americans of all colors shapes and sizes who could mount more legitimate cases for how terrible life had turned out for them in American society than Kap. This is a man who has become wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice for something completely trivial, and even a sport which has no popularity outside the country with that flag he doesn't like.

[HotelVitale]

Nationalism at sporting events makes me want to puke. The national anthem shouldn't be sung. I don't stand and sing as a spectator at events and I wouldn't be standing if I was a player. I have respect for any player willing to go through the backlash of ignorant fans who will say stupid crap like "if you don't love America why don't you leave?". Unfortunately America is full of these people.

Why does it make you want to puke? It's an American league, on American soil, and they play the national anthem of the leagues home base. Loving your country is vomitous to you? It's not ignorant to be angry at someone who hates their own country, or does something that seems to belittle the country they love...

Daddy didn't phrase this too well, but patriotism doesn't make any sense: it makes sense to love your family and some people in your neighborhood and some other folks you know, and it makes sense to dislike and even hate things that seem to threaten it in idea or reality. But saying 'I love and would die for the country I happened to be born in' is a weird irrational thing. I'm sure you know there weren't really nations or countries before like the 1500s, and that countries developed as basically just economic and military entities; the idea of 'rights' for the non-ruling classes only came around in the 1700s, when the economy was getting much more complex and large amount of non-aristocrats started to have money, status, etc and started claiming that they deserved a say in government.

Anyway, point is that 'patriotism' for your country isn't a natural impulse or anything, and it makes a WHOLE lot more sense logically to say you like your family and friends and whatever else but are critical of what some other people in your country do. When most people say they 'love their country' they actually mean a certain vision or ideal of what it is, not that they love every part of the country and every person and system within it.

Also, I only heard about a minute of Kaepernick's lockerroom speech (it was pretty boring) but he was explicit about saying 'this country is supposed to stand for liberty and justice and it's not doing its job.' In other words, he 'loves' the ideas behind the nation and doesn't think the people in charge of carrying them out are doing their job. Not a super advanced critique but it's not unpatriotic, and it's exactly why the ideals behind the declaration and constitution exist.

[OrlandoDream]

This entitlement generation continues to prove that is it the worse. It's ok to fight for what you believe in but by not standing up to the national anthem you are spiting in the faces of those veterans that gave their life to defend the freedom of the country that pays your your 19 million a year. He's a spoiled and disrespectful punk to me. Has nothing to do with color. The man just lacks the basic principles of common decency. Let's see where his dedication lies once that paycheck takes a hit.

[Dr Spaceman]

you're an idiot if you think taking issue with Kap (and not even necessarily issue with his actions in this particular instance) makes someone a white supremacist. A grade A mental midget who just likes to use racial buzz words

To me the messenger matters. I don't think Kap is a great messenger.

Who specifically would you consider to be an acceptable messenger?

Probably somebody who had not benefitted from the country which he is expressing disdain for to become one of its richest citizens for nothing more than the ability to throw an oddly shaped toy ball.

There are probably at least 300 million Americans of all colors shapes and sizes who could mount more legitimate cases for how terrible life had turned out for them in American society than Kap. This is a man who has become wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice for something completely trivial, and even a sport which has no popularity outside the country with that flag he doesn't like.

Yes, and those 300 million Americans don't have a public platform to make their concerns heard. Kap does. Believe it or not some people are concerned with the welfare of those outside their immediate bubble.

[Infinite Llamas]

I remember back in 2002 or 2003 when that female basketball college player in New York turned her back on the flag in protest of the war and she was tore apart for this. The kind of hate that she received for a simple, silent protest was just sad really. Honestly, I always stand for the anthem and take off my hat, but if somebody chooses not to, why should they be a villain? I was taught that differing opinions is what makes America so great, so she shouldn't have been lambasted for her protest. My take is that as long as they aren't making a huge spectacle, let them be and do what they feel they have to do.

Besides, at the end of the day, human beings have a greater bond with DNA than the bond that country borders or flags could ever offer.

[mtron929]

Nationalism at sporting events makes me want to puke. The national anthem shouldn't be sung. I don't stand and sing as a spectator at events and I wouldn't be standing if I was a player. I have respect for any player willing to go through the backlash of ignorant fans who will say stupid crap like "if you don't love America why don't you leave?". Unfortunately America is full of these people.

Why does it make you want to puke? It's an American league, on American soil, and they play the national anthem of the leagues home base. Loving your country is vomitous to you? It's not ignorant to be angry at someone who hates their own country, or does something that seems to belittle the country they love...

Daddy didn't phrase this too well, but patriotism doesn't make any sense: it makes sense to love your family and some people in your neighborhood and some other folks you know, and it makes sense to dislike and even hate things that seem to threaten it in idea or reality. But saying 'I love and would die for the country I happened to be born in' is a weird irrational thing. I'm sure you know there weren't really nations or countries before like the 1500s, and that countries developed as basically just economic and military entities; the idea of 'rights' for the non-ruling classes only came around in the 1700s, when the economy was getting much more complex and large amount of non-aristocrats started to have money, status, etc and started claiming that they deserved a say in government.

Anyway, point is that 'patriotism' for your country isn't a natural impulse or anything, and it makes a WHOLE lot more sense logically to say you like your family and friends and whatever else but are critical of what some other people in your country do. When most people say they 'love their country' they actually mean a certain vision or ideal of what it is, not that they love every part of the country and every person and system within it.

Also, I only heard about a minute of Kaepernick's lockerroom speech (it was pretty boring) but he was explicit about saying 'this country is supposed to stand for liberty and justice and it's not doing its job.' In other words, he 'loves' the ideas behind the nation and doesn't think the people in charge of carrying them out are doing their job. Not a super advanced critique but it's not unpatriotic, and it's exactly why the ideals behind the declaration and constitution exist.

Whether it makes sense or not, it is useful. With everything else being equal, it is better for the citizens of said country to be patriotic such that the country (and as a consequence its citizen) can benefit from people's patriotism. It is akin to universities reaping benefits from alumni of the school having fond feelings for their schools in forms of donation and support. That is why pretty much every country in the world try to sell patriotism to its citizens. Moreover, if you travel across the world, you begin to realize that US is really one of the best countries in the world in terms of living conditions and opportunities. The grass is not greener on the other side.

[blind prophet]

Meh

I don't like to mix my basketball with politics much.

Also that freedom thing...to sort of say what you want/think if you'd like.

Also for some of you guys who don't read up much on history or get to the roots of agendas, Muhammad Ali refused to support the Vietnam war.

But here is the funny thing....

The reason we went to war there, or the justification for it was the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Well turns out 40 years later the justification used for going to war turned out to be deception.

http://www.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2008-02/truth-about-tonkin

I'm sure people who lost someone or spent time involved who are also aware of the deception may have preferred knowing that 40 years before it was public.

[Dr Spaceman]

America itself has a long history of using sport as a vehicle for social change: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute

Standing up for what you believe in should be the most purely patriotic thing you can do.

[Modulate]

This entitlement generation continues to prove that is it the worse. It's ok to fight for what you believe in but by not standing up to the national anthem you are spiting in the faces of those veterans that gave their life to defend the freedom of the country that pays your your 19 million a year. He's a spoiled and disrespectful punk to me. Has nothing to do with color. The man just lacks the basic principles of common decency. Let's see where his dedication lies once that paycheck takes a hit.

[nomansland]

Nationalism at sporting events makes me want to puke. The national anthem shouldn't be sung. I don't stand and sing as a spectator at events and I wouldn't be standing if I was a player. I have respect for any player willing to go through the backlash of ignorant fans who will say stupid crap like "if you don't love America why don't you leave?". Unfortunately America is full of these people.

Why does it make you want to puke? It's an American league, on American soil, and they play the national anthem of the leagues home base. Loving your country is vomitous to you? It's not ignorant to be angry at someone who hates their own country, or does something that seems to belittle the country they love...

Daddy didn't phrase this too well, but patriotism doesn't make any sense: it makes sense to love your family and some people in your neighborhood and some other folks you know, and it makes sense to dislike and even hate things that seem to threaten it in idea or reality. But saying 'I love and would die for the country I happened to be born in' is a weird irrational thing. I'm sure you know there weren't really nations or countries before like the 1500s, and that countries developed as basically just economic and military entities; the idea of 'rights' for the non-ruling classes only came around in the 1700s, when the economy was getting much more complex and large amount of non-aristocrats started to have money, status, etc and started claiming that they deserved a say in government.

Anyway, point is that 'patriotism' for your country isn't a natural impulse or anything, and it makes a WHOLE lot more sense logically to say you like your family and friends and whatever else but are critical of what some other people in your country do. When most people say they 'love their country' they actually mean a certain vision or ideal of what it is, not that they love every part of the country and every person and system within it.

Also, I only heard about a minute of Kaepernick's lockerroom speech (it was pretty boring) but he was explicit about saying 'this country is supposed to stand for liberty and justice and it's not doing its job.' In other words, he 'loves' the ideas behind the nation and doesn't think the people in charge of carrying them out are doing their job. Not a super advanced critique but it's not unpatriotic, and it's exactly why the ideals behind the declaration and constitution exist.

Really well said.

You were lucky (or unlucky) to be born in a certain place. Why should you be proud of that?

[BallDontLie_]

Wouldn't care.

Personally, I think there are better ways to get your message out than by disrespecting your countries national anthem,but it honestly wouldn't matter to me... America is the only country that tolerates that kind of BS though. You'd never see another countries athlete disrespecting the country like that.

Other countries don't play their anthem before a sports game between two teams from that very country, but rather when there's a game between 2 countries' national teams and the nationalism actually makes some sense.

[sharmaraps]

I also think the representation of the military at sporting events should stop. There is simply no connection between the two. Those who've lost there lives due to the foolishness of war should always be remembered but doing it before every single sporting event is nothing but free promo for the American military. It's like your glorifying war before every game.

[BallDontLie_]

By virtually every statistical measurement blacks have a better life in America than any other country in the world. Kap is just a weak mind who buys the left wing narrative that blacks live oppressed lives here.

So the deep-rooted, institutional racism in America is a lie because black people have a better life in America than in any other country in the world "by virtually every statistical measurement"? This is not about America vs. the rest of the world for once, your comparison doesn't mean ****.