Utah Jazz early season in review (Quarter-pole updates start pg 3!)

[Andre Roberstan]

Championship or bust!

Just a slight correction - Marcus Paige has been signed to a two year partially guaranteed contract(about 100K is guaranteed).

I set the template up before he was signed, and then didn't catch the change.

That minor detail changes my suggested trade however, as I think I will now be sending Neto somewhere. The alternative is Paige gets cut and Utah has no rights over him to show for the pick.

I'm pretty set on my Neto trade, but might be holding off and refining it until we hit September.

Any thoughts on my hypothesis that Burks might be on the block sometime between now and the end of next offseason?

[Texas Chuck]

Any thoughts on my hypothesis that Burks might be on the block sometime between now and the end of next offseason?

I'd probably want to have the Hill situation straightened out first. But yeah he is the first place I'd want to look if I needed to clear money starting next year. In an ideal world, Exum looks to be ready to handle 25 mpg playing both guard positions and Hill loves it in Utah and signs a reasonable new contract allowing them to move Burks. They can then use their draft assets to continue to add depth behind their core guys and pick up cheap vet free agents.

[HartfordWhalers]

Championship or bust!

Just a slight correction - Marcus Paige has been signed to a two year partially guaranteed contract(about 100K is guaranteed).

I set the template up before he was signed, and then didn't catch the change.

That minor detail changes my suggested trade however, as I think I will now be sending Neto somewhere. The alternative is Paige gets cut and Utah has no rights over him to show for the pick.

I'm pretty set on my Neto trade, but might be holding off and refining it until we hit September.

Any thoughts on my hypothesis that Burks might be on the block sometime between now and the end of next offseason?

I mentioned the possibility of regression from one of the Utah players as a fear, as its pretty rare everyone marches forward. That is just playing the odds.

But Burks or Hood would be my two guesses. Suddenly playing more offball and getting used to a new team flow, while Hayward is in a contract year.

However, I'm not sure I need to offend Utah fans and publicly post that Hood has a chance to step back, so yeah that leaves just Burks.

I think they don't trade him though, even in that scenario.

[Mystical Apples]

Championship or bust!

Just a slight correction - Marcus Paige has been signed to a two year partially guaranteed contract(about 100K is guaranteed).

I set the template up before he was signed, and then didn't catch the change.

That minor detail changes my suggested trade however, as I think I will now be sending Neto somewhere. The alternative is Paige gets cut and Utah has no rights over him to show for the pick.

I'm pretty set on my Neto trade, but might be holding off and refining it until we hit September.

Any thoughts on my hypothesis that Burks might be on the block sometime between now and the end of next offseason?

Not a hypothesis but I'd also consider moving Favors, if not actively shopping him at least listening to offers before locking the entire front court into long-term contracts. Clearly Utah is in a great situation with status quo a good option too.

[KqWIN]

If anyone get's traded I would bet on it being Mack. He's ahead of Neto on the depth chart, but Neto still has a tad of upside to his game and will probably have less value on the market. I'm going to say Mack gets traded to Cleveland to fill the role that Delly left...maybe for Cedi Osman?

[HartfordWhalers]

If anyone get's traded I would bet on it being Mack. He's ahead of Neto on the depth chart, but Neto still has a tad of upside to his game and will probably have less value on the market. I'm going to say Mack gets traded to Cleveland to fill the role that Delly left...maybe for Cedi Osman?

Damn you. Fine here is my trade.


Mo Williams to Philly* with a 2nd and cash
Neto to Cleveland
Cash to Utah.

Cleveland sends 1.5m to Utah and 1m to Philly*.

I don't see tons of upside with Neto and given he is behind Mack, sending out Neto seems a little better for Utah (as long as that extra room isn't needed for an extension. And Mack would cost a bundle more to Cleveland, who figure in the tax and then some. So Neto makes more sense there.

To do a deal, Cleveland can just use a TPE. And technically they will anyway:

Raul Neto $937,800

While Cleveland has:
Trade Exception (Joe Harris, expiring 1/12/17) — $845,059
Trade Exception (Jared Cunningham, expiring 2/18/17) — $947,276

So obviously they use the Joe Harris one.

As avid readers of the CBA all know "In a non-simultaneous trade, a team can acquire only up to 100% plus $100,000 of the outgoing salary"

But just the way the NBA works, at the same time Mo Williams will get dumped. And to Philly*.

* Or the Nets. I actually think it will be the Nets, but I am listing Philly and hoping it is them. Who doesn't want a 2021 Cle 2nd for their team?

[HartfordWhalers]

Oh, and probably I still plan on using Neto to Cleveland for my first KOTB entry in September. (Unless Chuck yells at me that using an old idea is cheating)

[KqWIN]

Oh, and probably I still plan on using Neto to Cleveland for my first KOTB entry in September. (Unless Chuck yells at me that using an old idea is cheating)

Just my opinion, but I think Neto has more value to the Jazz than Mack and Mack has more value to the other teams. I do think there is a little upside to Neto. He's not super young, but last year was his first year in the NBA and it often takes European guards some time to adjust to the physicality of the NBA. His shooting improved immensely, but he never got the chance to show his playmaking ability that was his calling card in Spain. If he can get better at absorbing contact and keeping balance I think his game could blossom.

Mack fits the mold as a hired gun, we know who he is. There's no development process to him. You can put him in a rotation and he won't kill you. He can also play the 2 a little bit, which could be important for a team like Cleveland that might want to play with 2 PG's as they have in the past. On the other hand, Neto does have a better contract situation than Mack so that could be the difference.

If it comes to cash or seconds, I don't think the Jazz move either unless they become unhappy about not playing. Even in that scenario I think the Jazz will hold out for a better trade at the deadline. Injuries are bound to happen, so they'll be more teams who are in need of a backup.

[babyjax13]

Oh, and probably I still plan on using Neto to Cleveland for my first KOTB entry in September. (Unless Chuck yells at me that using an old idea is cheating)

Just my opinion, but I think Neto has more value to the Jazz than Mack and Mack has more value to the other teams. I do think there is a little upside to Neto. He's not super young, but last year was his first year in the NBA and it often takes European guards some time to adjust to the physicality of the NBA. His shooting improved immensely, but he never got the chance to show his playmaking ability that was his calling card in Spain. If he can get better at absorbing contact and keeping balance I think his game could blossom.

Mack fits the mold as a hired gun, we know who he is. There's no development process to him. You can put him in a rotation and he won't kill you. He can also play the 2 a little bit, which could be important for a team like Cleveland that might want to play with 2 PG's as they have in the past. On the other hand, Neto does have a better contract situation than Mack so that could be the difference.

If it comes to cash or seconds, I don't think the Jazz move either unless they become unhappy about not playing. Even in that scenario I think the Jazz will hold out for a better trade at the deadline. Injuries are bound to happen, so they'll be more teams who are in need of a backup.

I agree with what is written here. Neto and Mack should have a bit more value than Burke, so I wouldn't be surprised if we could get cash+a second round pick, or a second round pick that was projected to be fairly high. And Lindsey loves having a ton of minor assets to throw around, or else sell if he can't find takers.

As for the Alec situation, I think that we keep him this season but trade him next offseason. I'd like to keep him, but his contract is going to look really good if he performs well (and if he is healthy, he will). We will have Rodney Hood, George Hill, Dante Exum and Gordon Hayward who should be able to play the 2, plus Joe Johnson and Joe Ingles at the 3. We've got to enjoy the depth we have this year, but I really think we are going to go the Spurs route and just swap out a lot of our 8-13 guys every season, and swap out our 6th and 7th guy every few years as well.

[winter_mute_13]

Love the fit of George Hill with the young Jazz core. If I were looking for the perfect (non-star) PG for the Jazz, it would be GH. I'm just sad that my team was the one giving him up

Love everything about the Jazz, their youth, their depth, their fit. The one fly in the ointment is the tough one - lack of a legit star. Hayward is a very valuable player, and maybe the closest thing to a star that the Jazz have, but what is the Jazz's ceiling if he is their best player? Guess that's a problem for another time. As of now like everyone else I think the Jazz have propelled themselves to being a clear playoff team in the West.

[Duffman100]

Deep team. Love it. Just need some of their young guys to take that next step we've been waiting for.

[jazzfan1971]

On an Alec Burks trade: I think it's possible. He has never seemed to fit in with what the Jazz are trying to accomplish. However, he doesn't have much value at the moment, so you have to ask it it worth moving him for a less productive piece just to clear his salary?

I would guess that the Jazz general manager is currently focused on how to convince Gordon Hayward to resign after this year. And/or how to recover if he leaves. So, the prism I would view a Burks trade would be through that. Moving him might get us some more cap space making it easier to pay the folks we want to keep, but, if moving him costs us a win or two in the short term that might be the nail in the coffin for a Hayward that just decides we aren't committed to winning.

So, my best guess is that we ride it out with Burks, both to hopefully rebuild his value and also to win as many games as possible (and give the impression that we are trying to win as many games as possible just as importantly), and wait til the Gordon Hayward situation has played out before deciding on what to do with Burks. IF Hayward bolts, we may be in a situation where we have to rely on Burks anyway, so trading him now might be bad on several fronts.

Long convoluted story short: I think we hang onto Burks at least til Hayward situation is resolved. (I guess if we move him as a part of a package for a better player that would be a no brainer, but, I find that almost so unlikely as to not consider, but, It would be a situation where we would move him as it would play well with the retaining Hayward narrative.)

Shelvin Mack's value is probably as high as it's ever going to be, and we don't really need him. I agree with a previous poster that he is probably the most likely to be moved.

[nomansland]

If I were not biased and didn't care if a division rival did well, I'd give them an A.

So, A- it is.

[Catchall]

I think the Jazz should be in the 49 - 52 win range. This will be the year when Quinn Snyder shows what he can do creatively as a coach. The team has triple-threat players at every position except the 5, giving them unprecedented potential for spacing and ball movement that actually achieves a positive result. It will be interesting to see how different players' roles shake out.

I'm amazed by Trey Lyles' potential. He has a rare mix of decision making, timing, body control, shooting touch and passing for a 6'10" PF. He along with Exum have the most potential to raise the Jazz to a higher tier.

[RexRyan]

Utah lost a lot more close games than they won, and that will need to change. Is it the product of no legit pg. The product of no star closer? The product of bad coaching? I'm hoping for Utah the pg situation fixes it mostly, but the star closer cannot be ruled out.

Joe Johnson, even last year, was the 'LeBron' for the Nets in close games. He was the iso guy in key spots. That's the reason I love this signing. If he has anything in the tank, they should win more close games.

Grade: A

[stitches]

Utah lost a lot more close games than they won, and that will need to change. Is it the product of no legit pg. The product of no star closer? The product of bad coaching? I'm hoping for Utah the pg situation fixes it mostly, but the star closer cannot be ruled out.

Joe Johnson, even last year, was the 'LeBron' for the Nets in close games. He was the iso guy in key spots. That's the reason I love this signing. If he has anything in the tank, they should win more close games.

Grade: A

For the record - we lost games in the clutch because of bad defense(28th out of 30), not because of offense(about average in the league).

[Texas Chuck]

Utah lost a lot more close games than they won, and that will need to change. Is it the product of no legit pg. The product of no star closer? The product of bad coaching? I'm hoping for Utah the pg situation fixes it mostly, but the star closer cannot be ruled out.

Joe Johnson, even last year, was the 'LeBron' for the Nets in close games. He was the iso guy in key spots. That's the reason I love this signing. If he has anything in the tank, they should win more close games.

Grade: A

For the record - we lost games in the clutch because of bad defense(28th out of 30), not because of offense(about average in the league).

The flip side is that if the offense was better, you'd not have found yourself in as many close games. And that's what I expect this year. The defense should still be one of the very best in the league but the veteran additions and further growth of Lyles and Hood should make the offense notably more effective.

[uber_snotling]

1. The Jazz played a ton of close games last year at least partially as a result of the slow pace. Fewer possessions equals closer games, all other things being equal.
2. The Jazz bench was atrocious last year. The first five guys off the bench were Booker, Lyles, Burke, Ingles, and Chris Johnson in terms of minutes played. In addition to upgrading the starting unit with Hill instead of Neto/Mack, the Jazz now have Diaw, Lyles, Exum, Burks, and Joe Johnson as the first five off the bench. If the substantial depth the Jazz have now results in the bench actually outplaying the opponent's bench, then the Jazz will not have nearly so many close games where a closer is needed.

[AingesBurner]

I hope we do not trade Burks, I am hoping JJ will take him under his wing and really turn him into a stud.

[KqWIN]

Joe Johnson, even last year, was the 'LeBron' for the Nets in close games. He was the iso guy in key spots. That's the reason I love this signing. If he has anything in the tank, they should win more close games.

Grade: A

For the record - we lost games in the clutch because of bad defense(28th out of 30), not because of offense(about average in the league).

The flip side is that if the offense was better, you'd not have found yourself in as many close games. And that's what I expect this year. The defense should still be one of the very best in the league but the veteran additions and further growth of Lyles and Hood should make the offense notably more effective.

42 games qualified for "clutch" situations (tied for 16th in the NBA) wasn't that much considering we played at the league's slowest pace. It will help our record to be better in the first 43 minutes, but in order for this team to achieve their potential they need to be better in the last 5 minutes. A DRTG of 121.3 is not going to get it done.