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Bergmaniac wrote:What is the connection between respecting the army and standing during the national anthem? Is that some US custom?
coachcav wrote:MotownMadness wrote:God this new generation of cry babies is just beyond annoying. "My feelings hurt", "I need a safe zone", "Everyone is racists".
The generation that is crying about this is really the older ones.
FirePjax wrote:By virtually every statistical measurement blacks have a better life in America than any other country in the world. Kap is just a weak mind who buys the left wing narrative that blacks live oppressed lives here.
eagereyez wrote:justicewinslow wrote:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17415010/pittsburgh-steelers-lt-alejandro-villanueva-agree-colin-kaepernick-form-protest
"I don't know if the most effective way is to sit down during the national anthem with a country that's providing you freedom, providing you $16 million a year ... when there are black minorities that are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan for less than $20,000 a year."
This guy nailed it.
Sent from my SGH-I747M using RealGM mobile app
How was the military fighting to protect our freedom in Vietnam, Iraq, the Philippines, etc? How about all of the aggressive wars waged against Native Americans? I hate this notion that the military only fights to protect our freedom. Even today I'd argue that our military involvement in the Middle East has actually made us less safe. We killed 210,000 civilians in the ME, destabilized the entire region, and created thousands of new recruits for terrorist organizations (ISIS). You're not a hero just because you decide to become a killing machine for the U.S. gov. The blind military worship in this country has to come to an end.
jbk1234 wrote:You're just arguing with straw men. If you want to address my specific points, you should address them not get into what other people are saying. I know far more about First Amendment law and freedom of expression than you could imagine. He's free to express his opinion, other people are free to express their opinions about what he says and does. That's how it works or it doesn't work at all.
In my opinion he's protesting general outcomes, not specific polices or cases. That's by design. It's easy to protest outcomes but it's not constructive. The person who was shot in Milwaukee was violent felon, he had a gun on him, and he refused to drop it.
Michael Brown decided to walk up to police car and start punching an armed police officer in the face. I doubt either community would feel safer if the police just let them go on their way. During the 90s, police refusing to actually do their jobs in high crime neighborhoods was a serious problem. There's at least some anecdotal evidence that we may be headed back there.
If you want to actually try and make a difference, you've got to do more than decry a handful of shootings that aren't justified. The sale of contraband necessarily involves a certain level of violence because courts don't enforce property rights. So if you aren't prepared to protect your property with force you better be prepared to lose it. Decades of housing and employment discrimination means that people of color are more likely to be on neighborhoods where that contraband is sold. If you want to believe that the root cause of the problem is racist cops targeting people of color, you're free to believe that. But like Kaepernick you doing your own generalizing and that's unhelpful. The problem is more complicated than that.
JohnnyNightrain wrote: oppression and racism aren't "real" issues because Kaepernick has money... that doesn't even remotely begin to make any sense.
nomansland wrote:HotelVitale wrote:zeebneeb wrote:Why does it make you want to puke? It's an American league, on American soil, and they play the national anthem of the leagues home base. Loving your country is vomitous to you? It's not ignorant to be angry at someone who hates their own country, or does something that seems to belittle the country they love...
Daddy didn't phrase this too well, but patriotism doesn't make any sense: it makes sense to love your family and some people in your neighborhood and some other folks you know, and it makes sense to dislike and even hate things that seem to threaten it in idea or reality. But saying 'I love and would die for the country I happened to be born in' is a weird irrational thing. I'm sure you know there weren't really nations or countries before like the 1500s, and that countries developed as basically just economic and military entities; the idea of 'rights' for the non-ruling classes only came around in the 1700s, when the economy was getting much more complex and large amount of non-aristocrats started to have money, status, etc and started claiming that they deserved a say in government.
Anyway, point is that 'patriotism' for your country isn't a natural impulse or anything, and it makes a WHOLE lot more sense logically to say you like your family and friends and whatever else but are critical of what some other people in your country do. When most people say they 'love their country' they actually mean a certain vision or ideal of what it is, not that they love every part of the country and every person and system within it.
Also, I only heard about a minute of Kaepernick's lockerroom speech (it was pretty boring) but he was explicit about saying 'this country is supposed to stand for liberty and justice and it's not doing its job.' In other words, he 'loves' the ideas behind the nation and doesn't think the people in charge of carrying them out are doing their job. Not a super advanced critique but it's not unpatriotic, and it's exactly why the ideals behind the declaration and constitution exist.
Really well said.
You were lucky (or unlucky) to be born in a certain place. Why should you be proud of that?
Patches Perry wrote:coachcav wrote:MotownMadness wrote:I just feel bad for my kids and their kids and there's not going to be a country left after all the new spoiled little brats finish destroying it while talking about how terrible they have it. Their poor wittle feelings are hurt and they want to make a fuss about everything.
New spoiled brats after they finish destroying it. Let me drop some information for you about the older generation. Due to the irresponsible actions and horrible spending decisions, our housing market nearly collapsed about 8 years ago and we went into a recession. Student debt and college costs has increased by 10s of thousands of dollars. Forcing people, to go into massive debt to even get jobs that don't really exist much anymore because you keep pissing off companies that go overseas. Social Security will be dried up long before we can even retire. The amount of terrorism that has increased due to the fact the past and current administrations keep going into the Middle East, starting pointless wars and pissing off their citizens by bombing them over and over again. Lets not forget the older generation is the one primarily electing morons like Trump and Clinton to office when most of us millenials cannot stand them or do not wish to vote for them. You want to to talk about us when we are not the ones even remotely responsible for today's problems. None of us are in any type of political power yet. When we do, you can bet we will clean up your problems. The older generation has already did a pretty good job of destroying what is left of it anyways. Remember you are the ones in power not us.
And to pile on ... it's funny when the older generation criticizes younger people for being spoiled, completely ignoring that the older generation raised the young generation. The first ones to talk about accountability are the first ones to dodge it.
coachcav wrote:Patches Perry wrote:coachcav wrote:
New spoiled brats after they finish destroying it. Let me drop some information for you about the older generation. Due to the irresponsible actions and horrible spending decisions, our housing market nearly collapsed about 8 years ago and we went into a recession. Student debt and college costs has increased by 10s of thousands of dollars. Forcing people, to go into massive debt to even get jobs that don't really exist much anymore because you keep pissing off companies that go overseas. Social Security will be dried up long before we can even retire. The amount of terrorism that has increased due to the fact the past and current administrations keep going into the Middle East, starting pointless wars and pissing off their citizens by bombing them over and over again. Lets not forget the older generation is the one primarily electing morons like Trump and Clinton to office when most of us millenials cannot stand them or do not wish to vote for them. You want to to talk about us when we are not the ones even remotely responsible for today's problems. None of us are in any type of political power yet. When we do, you can bet we will clean up your problems. The older generation has already did a pretty good job of destroying what is left of it anyways. Remember you are the ones in power not us.
And to pile on ... it's funny when the older generation criticizes younger people for being spoiled, completely ignoring that the older generation raised the young generation. The first ones to talk about accountability are the first ones to dodge it.
Exactly! That is why decided to put him on blast. I was going to say this part but I feel like I blasted him enough. I don't like when people try to degrade my generation when theirs is far from perfect. We haven't done anything yet. We are still working on getting entry level positions and experience let alone us running for office.
Arman_tanzarian wrote:BallDontLie_ wrote:FirePjax wrote:By virtually every statistical measurement blacks have a better life in America than any other country in the world. Kap is just a weak mind who buys the left wing narrative that blacks live oppressed lives here.
So the deep-rooted, institutional racism in America is a lie because black people have a better life in America than in any other country in the world "by virtually every statistical measurement"? This is not about America vs. the rest of the world for once, your comparison doesn't mean ****.
I actually laugh when people say that but follow up with absolute "0" statistical measurement. Come on at least throw a bone in there.
The Infamous1 wrote:I just don't understand how people can root for a sports team that is 80 percent African American but have these negative downright racist views of black people as whole. The most bigoted people I've ever met are die hard sports fans and it's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen. You're ok with them dunking and catching touchdowns but don't view them as actual human beings, they're just the entertainment
E-Balla wrote:jbk1234 wrote:You're just arguing with straw men. If you want to address my specific points, you should address them not get into what other people are saying. I know far more about First Amendment law and freedom of expression than you could imagine. He's free to express his opinion, other people are free to express their opinions about what he says and does. That's how it works or it doesn't work at all.
In my opinion he's protesting general outcomes, not specific polices or cases. That's by design. It's easy to protest outcomes but it's not constructive. The person who was shot in Milwaukee was violent felon, he had a gun on him, and he refused to drop it.
He had a whopping zero felonies and owned the gun legally. That story you came up with of how the shooting went is complete conjecture because to this day Milwaukee PD has not released the video most likely because it doesn't match their story.Michael Brown decided to walk up to police car and start punching an armed police officer in the face. I doubt either community would feel safer if the police just let them go on their way. During the 90s, police refusing to actually do their jobs in high crime neighborhoods was a serious problem. There's at least some anecdotal evidence that we may be headed back there.
The department of justice still did a probe on Ferguson PD and found plenty of egregious cases of racist practices which is why they rioted. Same with Baltimore. Milwaukee is next.If you want to actually try and make a difference, you've got to do more than decry a handful of shootings that aren't justified. The sale of contraband necessarily involves a certain level of violence because courts don't enforce property rights. So if you aren't prepared to protect your property with force you better be prepared to lose it. Decades of housing and employment discrimination means that people of color are more likely to be on neighborhoods where that contraband is sold. If you want to believe that the root cause of the problem is racist cops targeting people of color, you're free to believe that. But like Kaepernick you doing your own generalizing and that's unhelpful. The problem is more complicated than that.
No one said that's the root cause it's just the most urgent. Focus on getting equal opportunities after they aren't allowed to kill you and say you deserved it because you smoked weed (like Philando Castille).
The Infamous1 wrote:I just don't understand how people can root for a sports team that is 80 percent African American but have these negative downright racist views of black people as whole. The most bigoted people I've ever met are die hard sports fans and it's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen. You're ok with them dunking and catching touchdowns but don't view them as actual human beings, they're just the entertainment
AndroidMan wrote:Patches Perry wrote:coachcav wrote:
New spoiled brats after they finish destroying it. Let me drop some information for you about the older generation. Due to the irresponsible actions and horrible spending decisions, our housing market nearly collapsed about 8 years ago and we went into a recession. Student debt and college costs has increased by 10s of thousands of dollars. Forcing people, to go into massive debt to even get jobs that don't really exist much anymore because you keep pissing off companies that go overseas. Social Security will be dried up long before we can even retire. The amount of terrorism that has increased due to the fact the past and current administrations keep going into the Middle East, starting pointless wars and pissing off their citizens by bombing them over and over again. Lets not forget the older generation is the one primarily electing morons like Trump and Clinton to office when most of us millenials cannot stand them or do not wish to vote for them. You want to to talk about us when we are not the ones even remotely responsible for today's problems. None of us are in any type of political power yet. When we do, you can bet we will clean up your problems. The older generation has already did a pretty good job of destroying what is left of it anyways. Remember you are the ones in power not us.
And to pile on ... it's funny when the older generation criticizes younger people for being spoiled, completely ignoring that the older generation raised the young generation. The first ones to talk about accountability are the first ones to dodge it.
I agree, the older generation did screw up by letting the elite spread their liberal agenda for decades. You're right, we should've been wiser years ago and taken steps to prevent this current state that the youth are trapped in. Liberal ideologies have trapped you in your mind.
AndroidMan wrote:The Infamous1 wrote:I just don't understand how people can root for a sports team that is 80 percent African American but have these negative downright racist views of black people as whole. The most bigoted people I've ever met are die hard sports fans and it's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen. You're ok with them dunking and catching touchdowns but don't view them as actual human beings, they're just the entertainment
i love the NBA and I think Colin is a spoiled brat. How am I racist?
jbk1234 wrote:E-Balla wrote:jbk1234 wrote:You're just arguing with straw men. If you want to address my specific points, you should address them not get into what other people are saying. I know far more about First Amendment law and freedom of expression than you could imagine. He's free to express his opinion, other people are free to express their opinions about what he says and does. That's how it works or it doesn't work at all.
In my opinion he's protesting general outcomes, not specific polices or cases. That's by design. It's easy to protest outcomes but it's not constructive. The person who was shot in Milwaukee was violent felon, he had a gun on him, and he refused to drop it.
He had a whopping zero felonies and owned the gun legally. That story you came up with of how the shooting went is complete conjecture because to this day Milwaukee PD has not released the video most likely because it doesn't match their story.Michael Brown decided to walk up to police car and start punching an armed police officer in the face. I doubt either community would feel safer if the police just let them go on their way. During the 90s, police refusing to actually do their jobs in high crime neighborhoods was a serious problem. There's at least some anecdotal evidence that we may be headed back there.
The department of justice still did a probe on Ferguson PD and found plenty of egregious cases of racist practices which is why they rioted. Same with Baltimore. Milwaukee is next.If you want to actually try and make a difference, you've got to do more than decry a handful of shootings that aren't justified. The sale of contraband necessarily involves a certain level of violence because courts don't enforce property rights. So if you aren't prepared to protect your property with force you better be prepared to lose it. Decades of housing and employment discrimination means that people of color are more likely to be on neighborhoods where that contraband is sold. If you want to believe that the root cause of the problem is racist cops targeting people of color, you're free to believe that. But like Kaepernick you doing your own generalizing and that's unhelpful. The problem is more complicated than that.
No one said that's the root cause it's just the most urgent. Focus on getting equal opportunities after they aren't allowed to kill you and say you deserved it because you smoked weed (like Philando Castille).
"Smith had been in trouble with the law dating back at least to 2011, according to arrest records released by the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Office late Sunday. He was arrested or ticketed nine times in that period — for the shooting, a robbery, carrying a concealed weapon, theft, possession of heroin and more. His most recent arrest was July 22 for possession of cocaine, records show.
Last year, Smith was charged with first-degree recklessly endangering safety and with witness intimidation, but the charges were dismissed, court records show.
The charges were dropped even though the prosecutors had recorded jail calls in which Smith asked his girlfriend to pressure the victim to recant, according to court records.
In the witness intimidation case, Smith was accused of pressuring the victim in a shooting to recant a statement identifying him as the suspect, according to the criminal complaint."
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2016/08/14/man-shot-milwaukee-police-subject-witness-intimidation-case/88721094/
The officer who shot him was an African-American.
You're engaging in revisionist history regarding Ferguson. The crowd rioted because people said that he had his hands up and was surrendering. The riots didn't occur after the DOJ released its findings about policing for profit. DOJ found the officer's account to be accurate.
Patches Perry wrote:AndroidMan wrote:Patches Perry wrote:
And to pile on ... it's funny when the older generation criticizes younger people for being spoiled, completely ignoring that the older generation raised the young generation. The first ones to talk about accountability are the first ones to dodge it.
I agree, the older generation did screw up by letting the elite spread their liberal agenda for decades. You're right, we should've been wiser years ago and taken steps to prevent this current state that the youth are trapped in. Liberal ideologies have trapped you in your mind.
I'm glad you admit that it's ultimately your fault.
E-Balla wrote:jbk1234 wrote:E-Balla wrote:He had a whopping zero felonies and owned the gun legally. That story you came up with of how the shooting went is complete conjecture because to this day Milwaukee PD has not released the video most likely because it doesn't match their story.
The department of justice still did a probe on Ferguson PD and found plenty of egregious cases of racist practices which is why they rioted. Same with Baltimore. Milwaukee is next.
No one said that's the root cause it's just the most urgent. Focus on getting equal opportunities after they aren't allowed to kill you and say you deserved it because you smoked weed (like Philando Castille).
"Smith had been in trouble with the law dating back at least to 2011, according to arrest records released by the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Office late Sunday. He was arrested or ticketed nine times in that period — for the shooting, a robbery, carrying a concealed weapon, theft, possession of heroin and more. His most recent arrest was July 22 for possession of cocaine, records show.
Last year, Smith was charged with first-degree recklessly endangering safety and with witness intimidation, but the charges were dismissed, court records show.
The charges were dropped even though the prosecutors had recorded jail calls in which Smith asked his girlfriend to pressure the victim to recant, according to court records.
In the witness intimidation case, Smith was accused of pressuring the victim in a shooting to recant a statement identifying him as the suspect, according to the criminal complaint."
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2016/08/14/man-shot-milwaukee-police-subject-witness-intimidation-case/88721094/
Notice none of that said he was ever convicted. He's not a felon. Period. This is a fact.The officer who shot him was an African-American.
And? They're all blue.You're engaging in revisionist history regarding Ferguson. The crowd rioted because people said that he had his hands up and was surrendering. The riots didn't occur after the DOJ released its findings about policing for profit. DOJ found the officer's account to be accurate.
No they rioted because Darren Wilson didn't go to trial and that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
