Welcome Okafor: Thread 2

[CoreyGallagher]

All have negative net ratings and even Nerlens and Ish made the team worse with bigger negative netrtg on the court than off the court.

Fairly certain this isn't true at least for ish.

True for Noel. With Noel -11.6, without Noel -10.9.

Not true for Ish. With -9.5, without -11.4.

Although, I remember posting something similar to this about Ish during the season (not relative to our bigs), but believe I was referring to his own scoring efficiency and not the team's with him. He was the least efficient, high usage scorer on the team, but the team scored better with him - I'm assuming what he did for our bigs was the actual reason for that, tho.

[76ciology]

All have negative net ratings and even Nerlens and Ish made the team worse with bigger negative netrtg on the court than off the court.

Fairly certain this isn't true at least for ish.

True for Noel. With Noel -11.6, without Noel -10.9.

Not true for Ish. With -9.5, without -11.4.

Although, I remember posting something similar to this about Ish during the season (not relative to our bigs), but believe I was referring to his own scoring efficiency and not the team's with him. He was the least efficient, high usage scorer on the team, but the team scored better with him - I'm assuming what he did for our bigs was the actual reason for that, tho.

Sorry got double visioned there with all the negatives

[cksdayoff]

the team was constructed to be garbage and yet you have people trying to use analytics to poke holes in okafor's game when the rest of his teammates are role players who belong overseas or on the bench.

For the life of me, I cannot understand this line of thinking. It's like people believe guys just pick Okafor's name out of a hat to say untrue, mean things about his game. The things he is being criticized for are REAL (not made-up) problems and the most important problems have nothing to do with teammates. You don't need analytics to see with your eyes, that he can't defend and doesn't rebound.

oh come on, seriously? everyone knows he needs to improve on his defense and rebounding. people on the last couple of pages are complaining about how the scrubs around him play better or worse with okafor on the court and off the court. that's what i meant. there is no system in place, okafor doesn't have much to work with. i'm not gonna judge what he did in his first year with garbage out on the court

[cksdayoff]

Once again, I'm pro Okafor but he has a Rudy Gay quality of stopping the ball and thinking and then dribbling and then deciding what to do (usually to score). That's not how you run an Offence.
I hope Brown can address that.

i'm pretty sure rudy gay achieved that reputation after a couple of years in the league. this whole ball stopping, black hole nonsense shouldn't be discussed at this current time until a system is actually in place and okafor plays more than one year in the league

[LloydFree]

the team was constructed to be garbage and yet you have people trying to use analytics to poke holes in okafor's game when the rest of his teammates are role players who belong overseas or on the bench.

For the life of me, I cannot understand this line of thinking. It's like people believe guys just pick Okafor's name out of a hat to say untrue, mean things about his game. The things he is being criticized for are REAL (not made-up) problems and the most important problems have nothing to do with teammates. You don't need analytics to see with your eyes, that he can't defend and doesn't rebound.

oh come on, seriously? everyone knows he needs to improve on his defense and rebounding. people on the last couple of pages are complaining about how the scrubs around him play better or worse with okafor on the court and off the court. that's what i meant. there is no system in place, okafor doesn't have much to work with. i'm not gonna judge what he did in his first year with garbage out on the court

FWIW, I have no problem with Okafor's offense. He's actually a better shooter than I anticipated.

[cksdayoff]

For the life of me, I cannot understand this line of thinking. It's like people believe guys just pick Okafor's name out of a hat to say untrue, mean things about his game. The things he is being criticized for are REAL (not made-up) problems and the most important problems have nothing to do with teammates. You don't need analytics to see with your eyes, that he can't defend and doesn't rebound.

oh come on, seriously? everyone knows he needs to improve on his defense and rebounding. people on the last couple of pages are complaining about how the scrubs around him play better or worse with okafor on the court and off the court. that's what i meant. there is no system in place, okafor doesn't have much to work with. i'm not gonna judge what he did in his first year with garbage out on the court

FWIW, I have no problem with Okafor's offense. He's actually a better shooter than I anticipated.

i also want to say i was never high on okafor in hs or college because of his rebounding and defense. his help defense needs serious improvement, i don't think his on the ball defense is that bad from what i saw in his rookie year. he has the tools to be a good rebounder. it's all up to him, and the coaching staff

[ET Da Gawd]

More bbq chicken coming this season y'all

Watch on YouTube

[76ciology]

Read on Twitter

Criticisms are OK. Expecting a rookie not to get better is not OK.

[76ciology]

[Sixersftw]

Not exactly a Jah believer but I respect that he is putting in the work.

[CoreyGallagher]

Okafor workin' out

There's the muscle, but looks like he's lost quite a bit of weight - which I think we've assumed he would. He's making a face, but can see it there.

Not sure if this entire video was posted already, but shows quite a few the workouts he's been doing throughout the summer.

[76ciology]

Okafor workin' out

There's the muscle, but looks like he's lost quite a bit of weight - which I think we've assumed he would. He's making a face, but can see it there.

Not sure if this entire video was posted already, but shows quite a few the workouts he's been doing throughout the summer.

Didn't post it, for I found it to be a unimpressive workout.

But I'm happy to see Jah working out, I really think he's going to turn it around next season and I'm betting big on him. He's just too talented and I do think the criticisms at him have already crossed the line. There's almost no guy in Philadelphia media who roots for him. He's not as bad as people think.

[spikeslovechild]

Okafor workin' out

There's the muscle, but looks like he's lost quite a bit of weight - which I think we've assumed he would. He's making a face, but can see it there.

Not sure if this entire video was posted already, but shows quite a few the workouts he's been doing throughout the summer.

Didn't post it, for I found it to be a unimpressive workout.

But I'm happy to see Jah working out, I really think he's going to turn it around next season and I'm betting big on him. He's just too talented and I do think the criticisms at him have already crossed the line. There's almost no guy in Philadelphia media who roots for him. He's not as bad as people think.

Personally, I'm fine with it. I think unlike a certain someone who sulks on twitter when challenged I think Okafor is just wired different. He's an alpha. He takes the personal criticism personally and uses it to drive him to get better.

He reminds me alot of Kobe that way. Maybe, he never makes it as a PF. Maybe he ends up needing to be ultimately moved because he won't fit with Embiid but it won't be because he didn't put in the work.

[Sixerscan]

There's the muscle, but looks like he's lost quite a bit of weight - which I think we've assumed he would. He's making a face, but can see it there.

Not sure if this entire video was posted already, but shows quite a few the workouts he's been doing throughout the summer.

Didn't post it, for I found it to be a unimpressive workout.

But I'm happy to see Jah working out, I really think he's going to turn it around next season and I'm betting big on him. He's just too talented and I do think the criticisms at him have already crossed the line. There's almost no guy in Philadelphia media who roots for him. He's not as bad as people think.

Personally, I'm fine with it. I think unlike a certain someone who sulks on twitter when challenged I think Okafor is just wired different. He's an alpha. He takes the personal criticism personally and uses it to drive him to get better.

He reminds me alot of Kobe that way. Maybe, he never makes it as a PF. Maybe he ends up needing to be ultimately moved because he won't fit with Embiid but it won't be because he didn't put in the work.

What was that you were saying about you never being the one bringing up okafor v. Noel?

[spikeslovechild]

Didn't post it, for I found it to be a unimpressive workout.

But I'm happy to see Jah working out, I really think he's going to turn it around next season and I'm betting big on him. He's just too talented and I do think the criticisms at him have already crossed the line. There's almost no guy in Philadelphia media who roots for him. He's not as bad as people think.

Personally, I'm fine with it. I think unlike a certain someone who sulks on twitter when challenged I think Okafor is just wired different. He's an alpha. He takes the personal criticism personally and uses it to drive him to get better.

He reminds me alot of Kobe that way. Maybe, he never makes it as a PF. Maybe he ends up needing to be ultimately moved because he won't fit with Embiid but it won't be because he didn't put in the work.

What was that you were saying about you never being the one bringing up okafor v. Noel?

I didn't really. My post was much more about Okafor. I mean the parallels are there for everyone to see. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering why Okafor was able to dramatically develop his body in the span of one off-season

[LeonJordanJr24]

Okafor is a alpha dog and he was the top 3 pick for a reason. He is a great offensive talent who can flat out score. He wants to be great so it shouldn't be a surprise that his faceup game and body condition has improved immensely. Okafor rose to occasion against all the big men that he faced in the NBA whether rookies Towns or Porgingis or elite bigs like Towns and Gasol. It doesnt matter Okafor is a elite offensive talent and has rare skills . He is our current best offensive talent and quite possible will be one of the leagues best scoring big men for years to come. Okafor has improved more with his game and body than Noel in 3 years. I personally think Okafor should be untouchable because of his sheer offense talent is hard to replicate. Noel is not more talented than Okafor and once Okafors defensive awareness and condition improves their will be a huge gap in upside.

[LloydFree]

Okafor is a alpha dog and he was the top 3 pick for a reason. He is a great offensive talent who can flat out score. He wants to be great so it shouldn't be a surprise that his faceup game and body condition has improved immensely. Okafor rose to occasion against all the big men that he faced in the NBA whether rookies Towns or Porgingis or elite bigs like Towns and Gasol. It doesnt matter Okafor is a elite offensive talent and has rare skills . He is our current best offensive talent and quite possible will be one of the leagues best scoring big men for years to come. Okafor has improved more with his game and body than Noel in 3 years. I personally think Okafor should be untouchable because of his sheer offense talent is hard to replicate. Noel is not more talented than Okafor and once Okafors defensive awareness and condition improves their will be a huge gap in upside.

You are right.

Noel is not more talented than Okafor, but Noel is a more effective player than Okafor. He was more effective as a rookie and even in a worse 2nd season (playing out of position) he was still more effective than Okafor. It's OK to be impressed by footwork and superficial things that don't contribute to wins. Fluff. Scoring from a Center is secondary, not primary, and doing both makes you an All-time great. But at the end of the day, the primary job of a Center is to defend the paint and rebound. His job is not to catch bounce passes under his waist. His job isn't to hold the ball for 8 seconds, spinning and showing footwork. If Cleveland or Golden state had the chance to get one of Noel or Okafor, I'd bet a significant sum they would take Noel 100 out of 100 times.

[rzzzzz]

If Cleveland or Golden state had the chance to get one of Noel or Okafor, I'd bet a significant sum they would take Noel 100 out of 100 times.

'cause they both are solid as far as scorers. last season the Celtics were strong at defense, but they could have used a scorer in the paint in the worst way, which i think Danny was working on at the break. i believe Pops invited Okafor to the select team instead of Noel because he's been kind of interested in him. just like Phil told the Lakers they should draft the Zinger, 'cause he figured then Sam would draft Russell. and Riley. yeah, it's great to have someone who is world class on both ends of the court, which i hope we're getting in Embiid. but getting someone world class at anything on the court is something that teams want to start with.

granted, i think Bill Russell was the greatest, and Dennis Rodman was as clutch as they came. but even those guys needed team mates who could score.

[phifans]

Okafor is a alpha dog and he was the top 3 pick for a reason. He is a great offensive talent who can flat out score. He wants to be great so it shouldn't be a surprise that his faceup game and body condition has improved immensely. Okafor rose to occasion against all the big men that he faced in the NBA whether rookies Towns or Porgingis or elite bigs like Towns and Gasol. It doesnt matter Okafor is a elite offensive talent and has rare skills . He is our current best offensive talent and quite possible will be one of the leagues best scoring big men for years to come. Okafor has improved more with his game and body than Noel in 3 years. I personally think Okafor should be untouchable because of his sheer offense talent is hard to replicate. Noel is not more talented than Okafor and once Okafors defensive awareness and condition improves their will be a huge gap in upside.

You are right.

Noel is not more talented than Okafor, but Noel is a more effective player than Okafor. He was more effective as a rookie and even in a worse 2nd season (playing out of position) he was still more effective than Okafor. It's OK to be impressed by footwork and superficial things that don't contribute to wins. Fluff. Scoring from a Center is secondary, not primary, and doing both makes you an All-time great. But at the end of the day, the primary job of a Center is to defend the paint and rebound. His job is not to catch bounce passes under his waist. His job isn't to hold the ball for 8 seconds, spinning and showing footwork. If Cleveland or Golden state had the chance to get one of Noel or Okafor, I'd bet a significant sum they would take Noel 100 out of 100 times.

Your theory may stand correct by comparing two 8-year veterans. But thats definately not the way to evaluate prospects. These young kids develop and change year by year. Automatically assuming they will always be what they were when they enter the league is the main mistake you keep commiting.

[LloydFree]

Okafor is a alpha dog and he was the top 3 pick for a reason. He is a great offensive talent who can flat out score. He wants to be great so it shouldn't be a surprise that his faceup game and body condition has improved immensely. Okafor rose to occasion against all the big men that he faced in the NBA whether rookies Towns or Porgingis or elite bigs like Towns and Gasol. It doesnt matter Okafor is a elite offensive talent and has rare skills . He is our current best offensive talent and quite possible will be one of the leagues best scoring big men for years to come. Okafor has improved more with his game and body than Noel in 3 years. I personally think Okafor should be untouchable because of his sheer offense talent is hard to replicate. Noel is not more talented than Okafor and once Okafors defensive awareness and condition improves their will be a huge gap in upside.

You are right.

Noel is not more talented than Okafor, but Noel is a more effective player than Okafor. He was more effective as a rookie and even in a worse 2nd season (playing out of position) he was still more effective than Okafor. It's OK to be impressed by footwork and superficial things that don't contribute to wins. Fluff. Scoring from a Center is secondary, not primary, and doing both makes you an All-time great. But at the end of the day, the primary job of a Center is to defend the paint and rebound. His job is not to catch bounce passes under his waist. His job isn't to hold the ball for 8 seconds, spinning and showing footwork. If Cleveland or Golden state had the chance to get one of Noel or Okafor, I'd bet a significant sum they would take Noel 100 out of 100 times.

Your theory may stand correct by comparing two 8-year veterans. But thats definately not the way to evaluate prospects. These young kids develop and change year by year. Automatically assuming they will always be what they were when they enter the league is the main mistake you keep commiting.

I doubt I've committed any error in evaluating either player. I don't just arbitrarily pick on players. There are reasons I don't think Okafor has a good chance to be a rim protector or great rebounder. The error YOU are making in evaluation, is ignoring history and ignoring what skills generally develop farther, as a player gets older.

There are no better predictive stats than Rebounds, Blocks and Steals for prospects and young players. Its common knowledge that those things show a young player's aptitude and physical dominance over their peers. Okafor couldn't dominate in those categories in college against his peers and he was downright bad against NBA players. Players don't just begin to "learn" to rebound and block shots. It doesn't happen. They learn to shoot, learn to not commit turnovers and learn offensive systems. Those are things that improve dramatically. Okafor doesn't just need to improve a little, he needs to improve a LOT at his deficiencies to become an adequate Center. The things he is good at (outside of FT shooting potential) aren't that valuable. The things he is bad at, don't generally get significantly better. Noel is already good at what he needs to be good at. The things he's bad at, are things that commonly get better with age. That's why he's the more valuable player.