RealGM Top 100 LIST- 2014

[penbeast0]

Did a quick study on popular opinion, looked up on google " top 10 greatest nba players " checked under videos and limited it to after 2015 PS and before the end of the 2016 PS

Here's the tally after 12 Random videos, 1 pt for 10, 10 pts for 1

1. Jordan 120
2. Kareem 90
3. Magic 85
4. Wilt 72
5. Russell 68
6. Bird 63
7. Kobe 42
8. LeBron 40
9. Duncan 28
10. Shaq 18

Jordan was #1 for all, Duncan was off once, Lebron and Kobe thrice each, and Shaq 4x.

This is kind of odd how nostalgia centric these random 11 were. Especially since this was 2015 season based.

Sent from my SM-T550 using RealGM mobile app

Not sure why this is nostalgia centric. Maybe because the bottom 4 are modern (though LeBron probably moves up if you took polls from after the 2016 postseason). However, Kobe rather than Hakeem is the main difference from RealGM posters and that's favoring the new player over the older ones and the marginal 60s guys like Oscar and West didn't show up so on the whole, I wouldn't call it nostalgia centric.

[penbeast0]

Did a quick study on popular opinion, looked up on google " top 10 greatest nba players " checked under videos and limited it to after 2015 PS and before the end of the 2016 PS

Here's the tally after 12 Random videos, 1 pt for 10, 10 pts for 1

1. Jordan 120
2. Kareem 90
3. Magic 85
4. Wilt 72
5. Russell 68
6. Bird 63
7. Kobe 42
8. LeBron 40
9. Duncan 28
10. Shaq 18

Jordan was #1 for all, Duncan was off once, Lebron and Kobe thrice each, and Shaq 4x.

This is kind of odd how nostalgia centric these random 11 were. Especially since this was 2015 season based.

Sent from my SM-T550 using RealGM mobile app

Not sure why this is nostalgia centric. Maybe because the bottom 4 are modern (though LeBron probably moves up if you took polls from after the 2016 postseason). However, Kobe rather than Hakeem is the main difference from RealGM posters and that's favoring the new player over the older ones and the marginal 60s guys like Oscar and West didn't show up so on the whole, I wouldn't call it nostalgia centric.

[penbeast0]

Did a quick study on popular opinion, looked up on google " top 10 greatest nba players " checked under videos and limited it to after 2015 PS and before the end of the 2016 PS

Here's the tally after 12 Random videos, 1 pt for 10, 10 pts for 1

1. Jordan 120
2. Kareem 90
3. Magic 85
4. Wilt 72
5. Russell 68
6. Bird 63
7. Kobe 42
8. LeBron 40
9. Duncan 28
10. Shaq 18

Jordan was #1 for all, Duncan was off once, Lebron and Kobe thrice each, and Shaq 4x.

This is kind of odd how nostalgia centric these random 11 were. Especially since this was 2015 season based.

Sent from my SM-T550 using RealGM mobile app

Not sure why this is nostalgia centric. Maybe because the bottom 4 are modern (though LeBron probably moves up if you took polls from after the 2016 postseason). However, Kobe rather than Hakeem is the main difference from RealGM posters and that's favoring the new player over the older ones and the marginal 60s guys like Oscar and West didn't show up so on the whole, I wouldn't call it nostalgia centric.

[ThaRegul8r]

As most know, I record what's said and written about the NBA at the time to keep an accurate record of contemporary observation and prevent its inevitable loss in time as people who weren't there come along, and I was reading this article on the recently retired Kobe and Duncan on Nylon Calculus. In it, the RealGM Top 100 project is referenced, and then I went back to the top of the article and also noticed that to the right of the name of the author is "Follow @ProfessorDrz."

Is this a coincidence, or is the author of this article actually RealGM member drza? As everyone posts anonymously under handles, I of course don't know who's behind the name (and it isn't really relevant to the post, as a post stands on its own merits), but if it is, then it would explain the reference to the project. I probably wouldn't have even given it a second thought if not for the link to the Top 100 project. But I was just curious.

EDIT: Never mind, checking the Twitter account, a Tweet by ElGee commenting on the very article answers my question in the affirmative.

[RCM88x]

Did a quick study on popular opinion, looked up on google " top 10 greatest nba players " checked under videos and limited it to after 2015 PS and before the end of the 2016 PS

Here's the tally after 12 Random videos, 1 pt for 10, 10 pts for 1

1. Jordan 120
2. Kareem 90
3. Magic 85
4. Wilt 72
5. Russell 68
6. Bird 63
7. Kobe 42
8. LeBron 40
9. Duncan 28
10. Shaq 18

Jordan was #1 for all, Duncan was off once, Lebron and Kobe thrice each, and Shaq 4x.

This is kind of odd how nostalgia centric these random 11 were. Especially since this was 2015 season based.

Sent from my SM-T550 using RealGM mobile app

YouTube hates Lebron and Shaq...

Not sure how accurate YT lists are, most are developed to attract views, likes and discussions. I'd put very little stock into Youtube based rankings for any topic.

[RSCD3_]

Did a quick study on popular opinion, looked up on google " top 10 greatest nba players " checked under videos and limited it to after 2015 PS and before the end of the 2016 PS

Here's the tally after 12 Random videos, 1 pt for 10, 10 pts for 1

1. Jordan 120
2. Kareem 90
3. Magic 85
4. Wilt 72
5. Russell 68
6. Bird 63
7. Kobe 42
8. LeBron 40
9. Duncan 28
10. Shaq 18

Jordan was #1 for all, Duncan was off once, Lebron and Kobe thrice each, and Shaq 4x.

This is kind of odd how nostalgia centric these random 11 were. Especially since this was 2015 season based.

Sent from my SM-T550 using RealGM mobile app

YouTube hates Lebron and Shaq...

Not sure how accurate YT lists are, most are developed to attract views, likes and discussions. I'd put very little stock into Youtube based rankings for any topic.

I think the discussion is just pretty shallow and arbitrary but it did represent a bunch of way casuals felt about lebron after 2015, so I thought id make it out of curiosity. I put no stock into my own lists from this experience but I think'll i check out some 2016 lists as this finals could shoot him up the ranks.

[bwgood77]

I know I'm a KJ homer, but I'd say if you were to just define a player by his peak years, he would fall somewhere between 40 and 45 on this list.

[Quotatious]

I know I'm a KJ homer, but I'd say if you were to just define a player by his peak years, he would fall somewhere between 40 and 45 on this list.

I agree, for example I don't know what makes Isiah Thomas better than KJ in terms of peak or prime, as a player, even though Zeke has better reputation because of the titles the Pistons won. KJ-led Suns eliminating the 63-win Lakers led by prime Magic and Worthy in just 5 games in 1990 WCSF is a very impressive accomplishment (KJ was a hell of a playoff performer in general, throughout his career).

[bwgood77]

I know I'm a KJ homer, but I'd say if you were to just define a player by his peak years, he would fall somewhere between 40 and 45 on this list.

I agree, for example I don't know what makes Isiah Thomas better than KJ in terms of peak or prime, as a player, even though Zeke has better reputation because of the titles the Pistons won. KJ-led Suns eliminating the 63-win Lakers led by prime Magic and Worthy in just 5 games in 1990 WCSF is a very impressive accomplishment (KJ was a hell of a playoff performer in general, throughout his career).

I think he is better than Thomas too but didn't want to get into that discussion as much. This is from Wikipedia

In his first full season with Phoenix, Johnson grew into one of the game’s elite players, averaging 20.4 points, 12.2 assists, a 50.5% field goal percentage, and an 88.2% free-throw percentage.[2] With those numbers, Johnson joined Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas as the only players in NBA history to average at least 20 points and 12 assists in a season. His rapid improvement earned him the 1988-89 NBA's Most Improved Player Award. The '88-'89 campaign was the first of three straight seasons in which Johnson averaged at least 20 points and 10 assists, joining Oscar Robertson and Isiah Thomas as the only players in league history to accomplish that feat. It also represented the beginning of a new era for the previously moribund Suns' franchise. In K.J.'s first seven full seasons in Phoenix from 1989-1995, the Suns won the most regular season games in the NBA (394, an average of 56 and never fewer than 53), constituting the only club to win at least 50 every year during that span, and they won the second-most playoff games (46), trailing only the Chicago Bulls.

In the 1991 NBA All-Star Game, Johnson started alongside Magic Johnson in the Western Conference backcourt. In anticipation of the game, the Sporting News asked whether K.J. may have surpassed Magic as the best player on the court.[11] The previous spring in the 1990 Western Conference Semifinals, Johnson led the Suns past Magic’s league-best, 63-win Los Angeles Lakers, four games to one. Over the last two games, Johnson closed out the series by averaging 33.5 points and a dozen assists as the Suns won both Game Four and Game Five, with K.J. vastly outplaying Magic Johnson in the fourth quarter of both contests. Indeed, Johnson's clutch performances led Hall of Fame center and NBC commentator Bill Walton to later remark, “Kevin Johnson ... really came to the top of this league in the 1990 playoffs when he waxed Magic Johnson and the Lakers in the early rounds. Kevin Johnson – and the Suns – taking care of business in 1990, four to one over the Lakers ... Kevin Johnson just totally outplaying Magic.”[12] Johnson’s performance during the 1990 playoffs led the Suns to a second consecutive berth in the Western Conference Finals as Phoenix became the only team to ever defeat John Stockton's Jazz (55 wins) and Magic Johnson's Lakers (63 wins) in the same postseason.

[bwgood77]

I know I'm a KJ homer, but I'd say if you were to just define a player by his peak years, he would fall somewhere between 40 and 45 on this list.

I agree, for example I don't know what makes Isiah Thomas better than KJ in terms of peak or prime, as a player, even though Zeke has better reputation because of the titles the Pistons won. KJ-led Suns eliminating the 63-win Lakers led by prime Magic and Worthy in just 5 games in 1990 WCSF is a very impressive accomplishment (KJ was a hell of a playoff performer in general, throughout his career).

Another note, after I was reading the Wiki page, I realized at least part of it was likely written by a Suns poster on the forums.

GMAT, did you write up the Wikipedia page for KJ? I was just using it in a discussion on the Player Comparison forum and after reading it, it sounded just like you. I noticed the word indeed started a sentence, and I thought "wait a second here".

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1328924&p=49141286#p49141286

I have made some contributions, especially in a certain section, but I have not written most of the page (or much of it overall).

The funny thing is that some of the contributions that I have made have inspired a couple of other people to make some statistical observations about K.J. that I had not known (in terms of the historic nature of his playoff performances), so there has been a good exchange with a few people building off each other. The more that one digs into K.J.'s numbers, the more impressive his career looks, but one would never really know that from watching television, reading major newspapers and most blogs/websites, and so forth. The reason, of course, is that most people—especially most people who cover sports, of all things—are not independent/critical thinkers who actually conduct research and analyze matters for themselves. Instead, they just conform to the crowd, and the crows is usually rather mindless.

I have a couple of quotations that I will share later this evening that I believe you will appreciate, ones that pertain to that post that I made earlier about K.J.'s shooting numbers.

[pelifan]

So when do we move Joel "The Process" Embiid into the top 5?

[wigglestrue]

Not sure if I asked this question in just this way yet, forgive me if I have: IF Bird during his 84-86 peak were still objectively determined to have had a top 5 defensive impact, how much might that move him up? I want to weep green tears, seeing him outside the top 10.

[Colbinii]

Update: I believe we should do another top 100 list this summer after LeBron wins the champio...I mean after the Championship is played.

[ThaRegul8r]

Update: I believe we should do another top 100 list this summer after LeBron wins the champio...I mean after the Championship is played.

Well, this year is when the list would naturally be re-done anyway.

[Ambrose]

I hope this gets re-done. Would love to see this all taking place in real time and read the cases for and against everyone.

[THKNKG]

I think it'd be beneficial to have a poll of those involved in voting this time so that we can understand how people sort their lists. I'm excited about being a part of a new list.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Clyde Frazier]

Not sure if I asked this question in just this way yet, forgive me if I have: IF Bird during his 84-86 peak were still objectively determined to have had a top 5 defensive impact, how much might that move him up? I want to weep green tears, seeing him outside the top 10.

FYI, he was voted in at #10, not outside the top 10.

[ThaRegul8r]

Not sure if I asked this question in just this way yet, forgive me if I have: IF Bird during his 84-86 peak were still objectively determined to have had a top 5 defensive impact, how much might that move him up? I want to weep green tears, seeing him outside the top 10.

FYI, he was voted in at #10, not outside the top 10.

Two projects ago he was #6, last project he dropped to #10. Therefore it's not outside the realm of possibility for Bird to drop out of the top ten completely this year, depending on who participates in the project. Perhaps the Kobe fanbase makes a push to get him back in the top ten. Maybe Garnett gets in now that the book is closed on him, pushing Bird out. Maybe someone pulls an ardee again and sways people to vote for whoever it is they're campaigning for. As I posted before the last project, less than a quarter of the posters who participated in the 2011 project participated in the 2014. The same thing happening again would be different results since it's predominantly a completely different group of posters voting.

[Clyde Frazier]

Not sure if I asked this question in just this way yet, forgive me if I have: IF Bird during his 84-86 peak were still objectively determined to have had a top 5 defensive impact, how much might that move him up? I want to weep green tears, seeing him outside the top 10.

FYI, he was voted in at #10, not outside the top 10.

Two projects ago he was #6, last project he dropped to #10. Therefore it's not outside the realm of possibility for Bird to drop out of the top ten completely this year, depending on who participates in the project. Perhaps the Kobe fanbase makes a push to get him back in the top ten. Maybe Garnett gets in, pushing Bird out. Maybe someone pulls an ardee again and sways people to vote for whoever it is they're campaigning for.

I don't disagree. I have a feeling there will be an even stronger push for Garnett this time around. The OP phrased it as if Bird was voted outside the top 10 in the 2014 project, though.

[ThaRegul8r]

FYI, he was voted in at #10, not outside the top 10.

Two projects ago he was #6, last project he dropped to #10. Therefore it's not outside the realm of possibility for Bird to drop out of the top ten completely this year, depending on who participates in the project. Perhaps the Kobe fanbase makes a push to get him back in the top ten. Maybe Garnett gets in, pushing Bird out. Maybe someone pulls an ardee again and sways people to vote for whoever it is they're campaigning for.

I don't disagree. I have a feeling there will be an even stronger push for Garnett this time around. The OP phrased it as if Bird was voted outside the top 10 in the 2014 project, though.

I'm not sure it's so clear he isn't talking about the upcoming voting after the season. The last have posts have all been talking about either looking forward to participating in it when it comes around again, or asking when the next one will be. "[H]ow much might that move him up?" is talking about the future, not something that happened three years ago. I expect he's going to present such a case, because as a Celtic guy, he's saddened at the possibility of Bird outside the top ten, as could well happen.