College basketball and 2017 draft - One more poll after last game

[bwgood77]

This may be the year we trade our pick. We have a ton of young guys we like, we have cap space, we have a good mix of contracts. Especially if we can be a viable destination for free agents, I could see us trading the pick for a key contributor.

You can think of it as us taking our 2017 pick a year early by taking Bender and Chriss this year.

I think it's pretty stupid to trade picks with the way the cap and rookie contracts are. They more guys you can have under rookie contract the better your cap situation will be. And this is not a good draft to trade a lottery pick unless you are getting a clear young difference maker back, but I still prefer growing organically and through the draft and don't want this team to think that if they sign a vet next offseason they will be ready to be a 2nd round playoff contender. The core is still EXTREMELY young.

PG: Ulis
SG: Booker
SF: Warren, Bender
PF: Chriss
C: Len

All of these guys need PT to develop, and all of them have demonstrated that they are worth developing. We have all our own picks, as well as additional picks in 2019 and 2021.

I'd be happy taking a center, in particular, with a mid-late first rounder next year, to develop behind Len. But I also think right now is our opportunity to build momentum and begin to assemble a contender using a mix of trades and free agents. With the Miami picks coming in, we don't have to drown ourselves in the deep end of the NBA rankings in order to pick up another top-tier talent.

The 2017 draft picks should have exceptional value. But they are still draft picks. I've been singing the opposite tune for about six years straight. Now, if Ryan decided to trade a future first, I'm okay with it. Just be sure you're getting the right assets in return. A 2017 pick should fetch tremendous value.

Just not a fan of trading a lottery pick in a good draft. I am not sure what type of value you are thinking or who you would want to go after, but I can't imagine who might be available. I guess someone like Rubio maybe. I think I'd rather stick to the draft.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I think it's pretty stupid to trade picks with the way the cap and rookie contracts are. They more guys you can have under rookie contract the better your cap situation will be. And this is not a good draft to trade a lottery pick unless you are getting a clear young difference maker back, but I still prefer growing organically and through the draft and don't want this team to think that if they sign a vet next offseason they will be ready to be a 2nd round playoff contender. The core is still EXTREMELY young.

PG: Ulis
SG: Booker
SF: Warren, Bender
PF: Chriss
C: Len

All of these guys need PT to develop, and all of them have demonstrated that they are worth developing. We have all our own picks, as well as additional picks in 2019 and 2021.

I'd be happy taking a center, in particular, with a mid-late first rounder next year, to develop behind Len. But I also think right now is our opportunity to build momentum and begin to assemble a contender using a mix of trades and free agents. With the Miami picks coming in, we don't have to drown ourselves in the deep end of the NBA rankings in order to pick up another top-tier talent.

The 2017 draft picks should have exceptional value. But they are still draft picks. I've been singing the opposite tune for about six years straight. Now, if Ryan decided to trade a future first, I'm okay with it. Just be sure you're getting the right assets in return. A 2017 pick should fetch tremendous value.

Just not a fan of trading a lottery pick in a good draft. I am not sure what type of value you are thinking or who you would want to go after, but I can't imagine who might be available. I guess someone like Rubio maybe. I think I'd rather stick to the draft.

I think there's a solid chance it isn't a lottery pick, and a very, very good chance it isn't a top 10 pick. But I'm an optimist.

As for targets, no, I don't really see one. But if an opportunity presented itself, I'd be ready to pull the trigger, unlike years past. This is simply not a team in dire need of a top pick. Things have changed... and drafts that appear great beforehand can turn out quite mediocre. 2014 is an example.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Be interesting if teams who are set at PG and SF look to trade out, as that's where the elite talent looks to be.

[NavLDO]

PG: Ulis
SG: Booker
SF: Warren, Bender
PF: Chriss
C: Len

All of these guys need PT to develop, and all of them have demonstrated that they are worth developing. We have all our own picks, as well as additional picks in 2019 and 2021.

I'd be happy taking a center, in particular, with a mid-late first rounder next year, to develop behind Len. But I also think right now is our opportunity to build momentum and begin to assemble a contender using a mix of trades and free agents. With the Miami picks coming in, we don't have to drown ourselves in the deep end of the NBA rankings in order to pick up another top-tier talent.

The 2017 draft picks should have exceptional value. But they are still draft picks. I've been singing the opposite tune for about six years straight. Now, if Ryan decided to trade a future first, I'm okay with it. Just be sure you're getting the right assets in return. A 2017 pick should fetch tremendous value.

Just not a fan of trading a lottery pick in a good draft. I am not sure what type of value you are thinking or who you would want to go after, but I can't imagine who might be available. I guess someone like Rubio maybe. I think I'd rather stick to the draft.

I think there's a solid chance it isn't a lottery pick, and a very, very good chance it isn't a top 10 pick. But I'm an optimist.

As for targets, no, I don't really see one. But if an opportunity presented itself, I'd be ready to pull the trigger, unlike years past. This is simply not a team in dire need of a top pick. Things have changed... and drafts that appear great beforehand can turn out quite mediocre. 2014 is an example.

I agree--it's hard to say who would be a good player, and it depends upon what our pick is that we are trading. While I, too, am an optimist, I still feel we have some growth ahead of us. Bledsoe didn't play with Booker when he was at his best yet, Len was used in goofy ways, Warren was killing it before he was lost for half a season, so he to will need to see how he fits with Booker, Chriss and Bender are big question marks, and how good will Ulis really be? And then, there's always a chance of a key injury or two, so with all that, I'd guess we'll be a late lotto-type team if no trade is made midseason; maybe a 37-45 to a 43-39 team, or basically a 10-14 pick.

If we do trade the pick, I would want to put at least a top-8 protection on it, with the apparent strength at the top of this draft. And then, I'd go for another young-ish player like Richaun Holmes or Jerami Grant. Or maybe one of the young Centers from the previous 3-4 drafts to either push Len, or start in place of him if he doesn't improve. Just so long as it's not a 28yo or older player.

But if we see a good deal, one that may also include Knight or Chandler, then yeah, I wouldn't have too much of a heartache, but I wouldn't want to miss out on a top-5 prospect if we go 28-54, or something horrific. We can 'loosen' the protection next year, as we'll have the Heat pick.

[Mulhollanddrive]

One thing we've never really done well in the last 7 years is knowing when it's time to do what.

I'd prefer to go hard to rebuild for another 18 months, do it once and do it right.

2 All-Stars out of Booker, Warren, Chriss, Bender, 2017 top 5, 2018 top 10.

That sets us up for 6-10 years.

[bwgood77]

One thing we've never really done well in the last 7 years is knowing when it's time to do what.

I'd prefer to go hard to rebuild for another 18 months, do it once and do it right.

2 All-Stars out of Booker, Warren, Chriss, Bender, 2017 top 5, 2018 top 10.

That sets us up for 6-10 years.

Totally agree. Don't trade picks now for vets. We likely have lottery pick this next year, and probably a pretty good one, and then we have two picks the following year. Use those and then the 2019 and 2020 picks are ok to trade. If you have to trade one of the next two year's first round picks, trade one of the two in 2018. Good to stagger rookie contracts.

[NavLDO]

One thing we've never really done well in the last 7 years is knowing when it's time to do what.

I'd prefer to go hard to rebuild for another 18 months, do it once and do it right.

2 All-Stars out of Booker, Warren, Chriss, Bender, 2017 top 5, 2018 top 10.

That sets us up for 6-10 years.

Totally agree. Don't trade picks now for vets. We likely have lottery pick this next year, and probably a pretty good one, and then we have two picks the following year. Use those and then the 2019 and 2020 picks are ok to trade. If you have to trade one of the next two year's first round picks, trade one of the two in 2018. Good to stagger rookie contracts.

I understand you can't have a team full of 25YO and younger players, but I do like the mix we have now, at least in so much of numbers/%s of each:

30+ = Tucker, Dudley, Chandler, Barbosa

25-29 = Bledsoe, Jenkins, Knight (Turns 25 in Dec)

<24 = Len, Warren, Booker, Goodwin, Bender, Ulis, Chriss, and Williams

Might be better to separate by years in the league, but point is, we have to have a mixture, and we are dangerously close to having too many young players, but this will be Len's and Goodwin's 4th year, so they become 'vets' after this year, in my mind. So I don't mind having more young players than 'older', but so long as we have some 'vets', I don't care how old they are, really.

But what's important is that we have a strong draft class coming up, so this isn't the year to trade our pick...but if we do, as I mentioned in another post, it needs to be for a young up-and-coming star, not a 27-29 YO star in his prime....we aren't ready for that.

[Mulhollanddrive]

If the top guys learn to shoot 35%+ from 3, it's going to be a GOAT draft class contender.

- 1996 + 2003 had 5 All-Stars in the first 6 picks.
- 1984 had 4 All-Stars in first 7 picks.
- 1985 had 5 Al-Stars in first 9 picks.
- 1998 had 5 All-Stars in first 10 picks.

Could be something similar this draft.

[jcsunsfan]

One thing we've never really done well in the last 7 years is knowing when it's time to do what.

I'd prefer to go hard to rebuild for another 18 months, do it once and do it right.

2 All-Stars out of Booker, Warren, Chriss, Bender, 2017 top 5, 2018 top 10.

That sets us up for 6-10 years.

Totally agree. Don't trade picks now for vets. We likely have lottery pick this next year, and probably a pretty good one, and then we have two picks the following year. Use those and then the 2019 and 2020 picks are ok to trade. If you have to trade one of the next two year's first round picks, trade one of the two in 2018. Good to stagger rookie contracts.

I understand you can't have a team full of 25YO and younger players, but I do like the mix we have now, at least in so much of numbers/%s of each:

30+ = Tucker, Dudley, Chandler, Barbosa

25-29 = Bledsoe, Jenkins, Knight (Turns 25 in Dec)

<24 = Len, Warren, Booker, Goodwin, Bender, Ulis, Chriss, and Williams

Might be better to separate by years in the league, but point is, we have to have a mixture, and we are dangerously close to having too many young players, but this will be Len's and Goodwin's 4th year, so they become 'vets' after this year, in my mind. So I don't mind having more young players than 'older', but so long as we have some 'vets', I don't care how old they are, really.

But what's important is that we have a strong draft class coming up, so this isn't the year to trade our pick...but if we do, as I mentioned in another post, it needs to be for a young up-and-coming star, not a 27-29 YO star in his prime....we aren't ready for that.

The draft class hype will be strong this year. With classes like this it often gets out of hand. This might be the PERFECT year to trade our pick for the right player.

[bwgood77]

Totally agree. Don't trade picks now for vets. We likely have lottery pick this next year, and probably a pretty good one, and then we have two picks the following year. Use those and then the 2019 and 2020 picks are ok to trade. If you have to trade one of the next two year's first round picks, trade one of the two in 2018. Good to stagger rookie contracts.

I understand you can't have a team full of 25YO and younger players, but I do like the mix we have now, at least in so much of numbers/%s of each:

30+ = Tucker, Dudley, Chandler, Barbosa

25-29 = Bledsoe, Jenkins, Knight (Turns 25 in Dec)

<24 = Len, Warren, Booker, Goodwin, Bender, Ulis, Chriss, and Williams

Might be better to separate by years in the league, but point is, we have to have a mixture, and we are dangerously close to having too many young players, but this will be Len's and Goodwin's 4th year, so they become 'vets' after this year, in my mind. So I don't mind having more young players than 'older', but so long as we have some 'vets', I don't care how old they are, really.

But what's important is that we have a strong draft class coming up, so this isn't the year to trade our pick...but if we do, as I mentioned in another post, it needs to be for a young up-and-coming star, not a 27-29 YO star in his prime....we aren't ready for that.

The draft class hype will be strong this year. With classes like this it often gets out of hand. This might be the PERFECT year to trade our pick for the right player.

I'd only do it if we lose confidence in someone or someone suffers a major injury. I'd hate to trade for a guy that would put a young guy on the bench for longer. I guess if Bledsoe goes down and the abundance of point guards in the league, it could be worth it, but I think it would be short sighted, particularly if we have good chemistry. Perhaps a good defensive wing might be necessary but we will have a bunch of cash for free agency. Now if it's part of a large deal that brings back a surefire difference maker like when Houston traded for Harden, that might be a consideration.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

The draft class hype will be strong this year. With classes like this it often gets out of hand. This might be the PERFECT year to trade our pick for the right player.

I'd hate to trade for a guy that would put a young guy on the bench for longer... Now if it's part of a large deal that brings back a surefire difference maker like when Houston traded for Harden, that might be a consideration.

JC and I tend to agree on just about everything always.

The thing about trading for a guy that would put a young guy on the bench for longer - the problem we will have if we grab another lottery pick next year is the problem I identified in my previous high-tech graphic:

PG - Ulis
SG - Booker
SF - TJ, Bender
PF - Chriss
C - Len

You can put Ulis behind Bled, because Ulis can grow while Bled fades. But compare that to Minny with Dunn and Tyus Jones - if Jones grows into a good player, they'll have to move him, the way the Grizz had to trade Lowry when they had both him and Conley.

Booker is our 2 guard for the foreseeable future. The 4 spot, I think we can agree, can bear no more youth competition. The 3 spot, I feel, is the same way. And Len is either the starter or should be moved. Because Len's moving into a veteran contract, I can see grabbing a 5 to go behind him, like Poeltl behind Valanciunas in Toronto. But in recent years, we've seen a lot of solid centers drafted in the middle of the draft, or even late in the draft.

The ideal position for us to grab an impact vet is likewise the 5. And the only player I can identify is Cousins. And a package for Cousins would be hefty. But if you traded for him, during or after a successful season this year, you could make up for any loss in youth with a free agent boost.

I remember the feeling when we traded for Kidd - excited, but bittersweet. Because I loved Michael Finley. But if TJ is having a great year next year, and we offer our 2017, Miami's 2019, plus TJ and maybe Chandler - well, we could try to add (maybe two of??) Hayward, Griffin, Millsap, or Ibaka. Bender and Chriss can remain to develop on the bench while we trot out a contender. And the 2018 offseason, we still have four players on rookie contracts, as well as space to add more rookies.

It's just a thought.

[NavLDO]

Totally agree. Don't trade picks now for vets. We likely have lottery pick this next year, and probably a pretty good one, and then we have two picks the following year. Use those and then the 2019 and 2020 picks are ok to trade. If you have to trade one of the next two year's first round picks, trade one of the two in 2018. Good to stagger rookie contracts.

I understand you can't have a team full of 25YO and younger players, but I do like the mix we have now, at least in so much of numbers/%s of each:

30+ = Tucker, Dudley, Chandler, Barbosa

25-29 = Bledsoe, Jenkins, Knight (Turns 25 in Dec)

<24 = Len, Warren, Booker, Goodwin, Bender, Ulis, Chriss, and Williams

Might be better to separate by years in the league, but point is, we have to have a mixture, and we are dangerously close to having too many young players, but this will be Len's and Goodwin's 4th year, so they become 'vets' after this year, in my mind. So I don't mind having more young players than 'older', but so long as we have some 'vets', I don't care how old they are, really.

But what's important is that we have a strong draft class coming up, so this isn't the year to trade our pick...but if we do, as I mentioned in another post, it needs to be for a young up-and-coming star, not a 27-29 YO star in his prime....we aren't ready for that.

The draft class hype will be strong this year. With classes like this it often gets out of hand. This might be the PERFECT year to trade our pick for the right player.

That's he worry though; the player, IMO, would have to be a 25 or younger 'no kidding' top-10 starter at his position in the league, so basically, a Brandon Knight that actually performs at the same level or progress. And to me, I should be a PG or C, or MAYBE PF if Bender or Chriss do not inspire confidence by the trade deadline. I think Warren and Booker have SF/SG locked up fairly well.

That's my opinion, of course, and I'm not sure there's a player out there that will meet even 50% of our fanbase's approval. I guess we'll see...

[bwgood77]

I understand you can't have a team full of 25YO and younger players, but I do like the mix we have now, at least in so much of numbers/%s of each:

30+ = Tucker, Dudley, Chandler, Barbosa

25-29 = Bledsoe, Jenkins, Knight (Turns 25 in Dec)

<24 = Len, Warren, Booker, Goodwin, Bender, Ulis, Chriss, and Williams

Might be better to separate by years in the league, but point is, we have to have a mixture, and we are dangerously close to having too many young players, but this will be Len's and Goodwin's 4th year, so they become 'vets' after this year, in my mind. So I don't mind having more young players than 'older', but so long as we have some 'vets', I don't care how old they are, really.

But what's important is that we have a strong draft class coming up, so this isn't the year to trade our pick...but if we do, as I mentioned in another post, it needs to be for a young up-and-coming star, not a 27-29 YO star in his prime....we aren't ready for that.

The draft class hype will be strong this year. With classes like this it often gets out of hand. This might be the PERFECT year to trade our pick for the right player.

That's he worry though; the player, IMO, would have to be a 25 or younger 'no kidding' top-10 starter at his position in the league, so basically, a Brandon Knight that actually performs at the same level or progress. And to me, I should be a PG or C, or MAYBE PF if Bender or Chriss do not inspire confidence by the trade deadline. I think Warren and Booker have SF/SG locked up fairly well.

That's my opinion, of course, and I'm not sure there's a player out there that will meet even 50% of our fanbase's approval. I guess we'll see...

You just have a much better chance of getting a star player in the lottery than by trading for one. Most of the great teams that were not multiple stars joining together on a team (which won't happen) were built through the draft. Chemistry is so much better when that happens. The chemistry of the Warriors and what the Spurs had for years was all through the draft. That is McD's strength. I really don't want to rush the process. If he can add a key free agent, great, but don't trade any more draft picks. This team has done that enough.

[NavLDO]

The draft class hype will be strong this year. With classes like this it often gets out of hand. This might be the PERFECT year to trade our pick for the right player.

That's he worry though; the player, IMO, would have to be a 25 or younger 'no kidding' top-10 starter at his position in the league, so basically, a Brandon Knight that actually performs at the same level or progress. And to me, I should be a PG or C, or MAYBE PF if Bender or Chriss do not inspire confidence by the trade deadline. I think Warren and Booker have SF/SG locked up fairly well.

That's my opinion, of course, and I'm not sure there's a player out there that will meet even 50% of our fanbase's approval. I guess we'll see...

You just have a much better chance of getting a star player in the lottery than by trading for one. Most of the great teams that were not multiple stars joining together on a team (which won't happen) were built through the draft. Chemistry is so much better when that happens. The chemistry of the Warriors and what the Spurs had for years was all through the draft. That is McD's strength. I really don't want to rush the process.

I do agree, wholeheartedly...BUT, there are teams out there with multiple good, young players that just can't get enough time on the floor, like the Sixers. They have like 8-9 POTENTIAL good, starting PFs/Cs, even though they all don't fit our system, a few would. So that's who I'd be looking at...a young player that has shown very well for 16-18 MPG, but there's a player in their prime ahead of them that they just can't get the minutes. There are a few of those out there.

There might be one or two that McD wanted to draft, but for whatever reason, wasn't able to, and is 22-25YO and fits our mold. I'd be ok with that type of move.

[Damkac]

It's way too early but Josh Jackson seems like a perfect fit for the Suns. That doesn't meens I'm low on Warren. I think he will be great player but Suns needs some athleticism, defense and versality at the sf spot.

But let's be real, one of those guys will be Suns pick:
De'Aaron Fox PG Kentucky
Malik Monk SG Kentucky (6'3 SG? Hell yeah!)

Last draft I was sure if Bender won't be available it will be Murray. Suns drafted Bender but still got their Kentucky guard anyway

[Mulhollanddrive]

Metta World Peace, Shawn Marion, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Andre Iguodala share the last 8 championships at SF.

All DPOTY contenders, hopefully Jackson or Anunoby can live up to defensive expectations and give us a chance at finding the next.

[No-Man]

I put out a Mock to start getting some of my thoughts in order for next years class

Mock Draft 2017

1. Josh Jackson Wing/Combo-Forward Kansas 16. Jayson Tatum Wing/Combo-Forward Duke
2. Dennis Smith Jr. Guard North Carolina St. 17. Ray Smith Wing/Combo-Forward Arizona
3. Markelle Fultz Guard Washington 18. Josh Hart Wing Villanova
4. OG Anunoby Wing/Combo-Forward Indiana 19. Jonathan Isaac Combo-Forward Florida St.
5. Frank Ntilikina Guard France 20. Terrance Ferguson Wing USA
6. Harry Giles Big Duke 21. Bam Adebayo Big Kentucky
7. Lonzo Ball Guard UCLA 22. Edmond Sumner Guard Xavier
8. Malik Monk Guard Kentucky 23. De'Aaron Fox Guard Kentucky
9. Miles Bridges Combo-Forward Michigan St. 24. DJ Hogg Combo-Forward Texas A&M
10. Ivan Rabb Big California 25. Kostja Mushidi Wing Germany
11. Tyler Lydon Combo-Forward Syracuse 26. Marques Bolden Big Duke
12. Lauri Markkanen Big Arizona 27. Nik Slavica Wing/Combo-Forward Croatia
13. Donovan Mitchell Guard/Wing Louisville 28. Shake Milton Guard/Wing SMU
14. Jarrett Allen Big Texas 29. Jaron Blossomgame Wing/Combo-Forward Clemson
15. Mikal Bridges Wing Villanova 30. Allonzo Trier Wing Arizona

Order is sort of my prediction at this point for NBA next seasons standings
Traded picks in the 1st,
BOS have the right to change their pick with Brooklyn's.
DEN gets MEM's pick
TOR gets LA's pick
UTA gets Golden St's pick

Guys that could've made it,

Jawun Evans Guard Oklahoma St.
Devonte Graham Guard Kansas
Monte Morris Guard Iowa St.
Grayson Allen Guard Duke
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk Wing Kansas
Vince Edwards Wing/Combo-Forward Purdue
VJ Beachem Wing/Combo-Forward Notre Dame
Justin Jackson Wing/Combo-Forward North Carolina
Dedric Lawson Combo-Forward Memphis
Kyle Kuzma Combo-Forward Utah
Carlton Bragg Combo-Forward Kansas
Chance Comanche Big Arizona
Chimezie Metu Big USC
Caleb Swanigan Big Purdue
Jessie Govan Big Georgetown

The rest that you might think should/could be there probably are mocked as not declaring, for example (Hartenstein, Frank Jackson, Jeanne or Yurtseven).

[Marcus]

The thing that worries me the most with Josh Jackson is his jump shot. He has a low, weird release on his shot, it's almost like he gets it around eye level and flicks it up from there instead of extending and getting a high release at the top. I've also noticed he has a habit of shooting on the way down of his jump instead of releasing at the peak, and that with his low release makes me a bit afraid he'll have a lot of inconsistency with his shot and will be prone to getting his shot blocked when he's not the longest, most athletic guy on the court. He's got all the physical tools and athleticism to be very good, but I'm going to be looking for improvements on his shooting form throughout his season at Kansas.

the release point could be a concern but Josh gets good elevation when he leaps on the jumper so that may alleviate some of that. I think if he can create enough space which he has gotten better at doing he should be fine with his release point. If it becomes a problem his form and setup doesn't look impossible to raise with repetition.

Josh on this team would be filthy going forward. Adding another long athletic defender with the ability to put it on the floor and create would be ideal.

If Josh or Dennis is out of range, I think Ball is a great fit as well with the shooters, lob targets, and off ball movers you guys have on the roster.

[gaspar]

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[DirtyDez]

Not 2017 but a sure fire top-3 guy in 18'...

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