HartfordWhalers wrote:HartfordWhalers Review
Key Losses:
Derrick Rose
Pau Gasol
E’Twaun Moore
Aaron Brooks
The Derrick Rose Chicago experience had to end. It just had to. In addressing that (and getting fabulous value), Chicago took a big step forward. On the other hand, losing Pau takes away a steadying player with still a lot of talent. Together, they averaged 33 points a game equally split amongst themselves (16.4 and 16.5 ppg), but one scored with a 48% TS% while the other did so with a 53% TS%. Say what you will about Pau's declining defensive abilities, but that offense was needed last year. A big question will be how well Wade fills in for it, and if it is no longer missed as a result.
Why are E’Twaun Moore and Aaron Brooks lumped in here? Okay, I'm overselling their loss by including them. Absolutely. I admit that. On the other hand, they were competent backup guards in a league thin of just that. They were 8th and 9th on the team in minutes, rotation players and helping to keep the team from complete collapse when playing. E’Twaun Moore is more of a loss going forward.
Losses:
Joakim Noah
Mike Dunleavy
Justin Holiday
Cameron Bairstow
Can you call Noah a key loss when he was just 12th on the team in minutes played, at just 635? Maybe. He does set a tone. But honestly, I feel like the tone was gone already. The peak Rose years (which really should be called the peak Thibs years), the team was known for a strangling defense and interior toughness. The defensive rating by year:
2011 -- 1st
2012 -- 2nd
2013 -- 6th
2014 -- 2nd
----------------
2015 -- 11th (Last year of Thibs)
2016 -- 15th (First year of Hoiberg)
The tone that Noah was emblematic of was already gone, and I'm left with an injured player that wasn't a key contributor.
I don't expect much from Dunleavy anymore, and while Holiday plays incredibly hard, his skill set is unrefined. The rest is not much of a loss.
Draft:
#14 Denzel Valentine
#48 Paul Zipser
Valentine seemed a safe and predictable pick. Well, safe minus any knee issues. The two guys that I would have strongly considered instead here would have been Baldwin and Luwawu. Ultimately, I think I would have gone with Luwawu (who DX mocked in at #13 with Valentine at #14, but on their big board versus mock prediction had Luwawu #12 and Valentine #25). Ignoring any knee concern, I don't see the need to have a refined older guy slated behind what seems Butler's natural position, so Valentine just seems a suboptimal choice. Luwawu may turn out to be a big bust -- his summer league did not impress me although I try not to make big judgments off that -- but his fit looks really great on Chicago as an athletic toolsy Snell 2.0 who shot 37% from 3 on the Euro league line. Baldwin would be an instant Rose replacement, both good and bad.
No strong feelings on the Zipser pick. DX apparently liked him a bunch -- https://web.archive.org/web/20160709184104/http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-100-Prospects/2/
So, maybe it is a good pick. He is not a guy I'm familiar with enough to say much on, but at 48 filling a position of need (3rd string sf) seems fine.
Trades:
Cameron Bairstow for Spencer Dinwiddie
Derrick Rose, Justin Holiday and a 2017 2nd to NYK for Robin Lopez, Jose Calderon and Jerian Grant.
Jose Calderon, 2018 Den 2nd, 2019 LAL 2nd for the rights to Ater Majok (2011-58th).
Mike Dunleavy for a TPE (with foreign rights on both sides)
One of the most boring, one of the most exciting, a tack on move from that trade, and then a surprisingly important set up trade.
Bairstow for Dinwiddie was great because it started the offseason, both players got waived, and then Dinwiddie even gets re-signed. On an interest level, it scored way out of its league. For mattering, it clearly didn't.
The Rose deal was phenomenal. 34% of trade boarders voted Chicago won it, and another 17% voted "There is no way Rose has this much value, what are you thinking Phil????" I think it would have been more, but another 10% of us had to vote "I'm just too excited that Chuck has to eat crow on Rose's value". I know I did. Rose Trade Thread
I would have done Rose for Lopez as Chicago. The Rose experience needed to end. Getting Grant thrown in (admittedly with Calderon) felt like a big coup. One sided and then some!
But then seeing Calderon dumped with 2 decent 2nds makes me look back at it. If Calderon isn;' neutral value placeholder pg while Chicago resets, then what is the difference between 2018 Den 2nd, 2019 LAL 2nd and Jerian Grant. Honestly, I take the 2 seconds.
So, I have the deal coming out as less than Lopez in value for Rose, which... is still better than break even and a winning deal for Chicago. And a deal they so desperately needed. Rose's efficiency was horrible, the defense had fallen apart, Noah and Gasol were leaving, Taj is expiring. Depending on if you found Rose negative value or not might influence what you think on if the value was a grand slam, but the fit and direction for Chicago were. The other two trades set up free agency, so I will discuss more in terms of that.
Free Agency:
Dwyane Wade 2/$47m (last year PO)
Rajon Rondo 2/$27.4m(last year 3m gtd)
Denzel Valentine rookie scale
Paul Zipser 4/$3.8m (first 2 years gtd, last year TO)
Isaiah Canaan 2/$2.1m (last year 200k gtd)
Spencer Dinwiddie 2/2m nongtd
Well, this got interesting. Last things first, but I would have signed an undrafted free agent such as Cat Barber or a Gary Payton II as a 3rd string pg instead of Dinwiddie. Canaan is a sg in a pg's body, but as an off ball 3 point shooter is worth that contract flier. The draft's been covered, so on to the big deals.
Wade -- You could argue he is better younger more athletic exciting scoring than Pau
Rondo -- You can argue he is better playmaking and less inefficient offensively than Rose
If you look at skills and not skillsets and how those skills are achieved, it looks like a bunch of clear upgrades. Rondo has had Dallas/Sacramento/Chicago fans excited when he joined them, and Boston/Dallas/Sacramento fans excited when he left them. Wade seems redundant in the way he scores, with the team now relying on a lot of ball dominant drivers. I don't expect it to totally backfire, but it also seems less than ideal for showing off the individual skills. Still, they got talent.
Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Rajon Rondo, Jerian Grant, Spencer Dinwiddie
SG: Dwyane Wade, Denzel Valentine, Isaiah Canaan
SF: Jimmy Butler, Tony Snell, Paul Zipser
PF: Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic, Doug McDermott,
C: Robin Lopez, Bobby Portis, Cristiano Felicio
I moved people a bunch. Canaan is not a pg, and someone needs to be slotted at backup center. Maybe it turns out Taj gets all his minutes there, but Portis made the depth chart look prettier.
Needs:
Mirotic and McDermott to hit their shots and provide spacing for all the drivers
Decent backup pg play (Grant/Dinwiddie/Canaan?)
Decent backup center play (Portis/Gibson?)
Health.
Rondo to get invested in team success, and a Rondo/Wade/Butler chemistry to develop
Additional Thoughts:
Every time someone suggests Wade to Cleveland I'm going to ignore them. Snell for a backup center is a trade waiting to happen.
Projected Win/Loss: 43-39
Off-Season Grade: C- I'm expecting a better year than last year, and if I just graded on that it could have been a high B, but the future isn't really brighter that I can see. And Chicago just spent a late lotto pick (#14), ~40m in cap room, traded away Rose, and 2 future 2nds. This feels like a year decent enough to save everyone's jobs, but not decent enough that they might not get fired in 2 years.
bondom34 wrote:bondom34 Review
Key Losses:
Derrick Rose
Pau Gasol
Joakim Noah
Mike Dunleavy
Losses:
Justin Holiday
Cameron Bairstow
Aaron Brooks
E’Twaun Moore
Draft:
#14 Denzel Valentine
#48 Paul Zipser
Trades:
Cameron Bairstow for Spencer Dinwiddie
Derrick Rose, Justin Holiday and a 2017 2nd to NYK for Robin Lopez, Jose Calderon and Jerian Grant.
Jose Calderon, 2018 Den 2nd, 2019 LAL 2nd for the rights to Ater Majok (2011-58th).
Mike Dunleavy for a TPE (with foreign rights on both sides)
I loved the Rose trade as a possible moving on/retool, but they screwed it up in free agency
Free Agency:
Dwyane Wade 2/$47m (last year PO)
Rajon Rondo 2/$27.4m(last year 3m gtd)
Denzel Valentine rookie scale
Paul Zipser 4/$3.8m (first 2 years gtd, last year TO)
Isaiah Canaan 2/$2.1m (last year 200k gtd)
Spencer Dinwiddie 2/2m nongtd
Sigh....they really should have either retooled around Butler with solid younger players or just rebuilt to me. Instead they signed washed up/older guys to expensive deals in Wade and Rondo. I like the Valentine pick, but I think this is a borderline playoff team at best and a wreck if injuries or locker room problems pop up. I keep going back and forth on which.
Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Rajon Rondo, Jerian Grant, Isaiah Canaan, Spencer Dinwiddie
SG: Dwyane Wade, Tony Snell, Denzel Valentine
SF: Jimmy Butler, Doug McDermott, Paul Zipser
PF: Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis, Nikola Mirotic
C: Robin Lopez, Cristiano Felicio
Needs:
Youth, a better PG, and hoping Wade is healthy
Additional Thoughts:
I said it above, but they just seem kind of confused and directionless, I really can't say how much I wanted to like their offseason, and loved the Rose deal, but the Rondo and Wade moves just killed it.
Projected Win/Loss: 37-45
Off-Season Grade: D+ for Rose and Valentine
dbrandon wrote:dbrandon Chicago Bulls Offseason Review
Key Losses:
Derrick Rose
Pau Gasol
Aaron Brooks
E’Twaun Moore
Moore is the biggest loss here IMO. He's a steady journeyman who can play on and off the ball. The rest I'll cover a little more later on.
Losses:
Joakim Noah
Mike Dunleavy
Justin Holiday
Cameron Bairstow
Not much here worth commenting on. I'm a huge Noah stan, but he's always injured and hasn't been the same in a couple of years.
Draft:
#14 Denzel Valentine
#48 Paul Zipser
I like both of these draft picks. Good upside on Zipser, and Valentine should be useful now.
Trades:
Cameron Bairstow for Spencer Dinwiddie
Derrick Rose, Justin Holiday and a 2017 2nd to NYK for Robin Lopez, Jose Calderon and Jerian Grant.
Jose Calderon, 2018 Den 2nd, 2019 LAL 2nd for the rights to Ater Majok (2011-58th).
Mike Dunleavy for a TPE (with foreign rights on both sides)
All of these are fine I guess. Trading Rose stings but he's not much of a loss on the court.
Free Agency:
Dwyane Wade 2/$47m (last year PO)
Rajon Rondo 2/$27.4m(last year 3m gtd)
Denzel Valentine rookie scale
Paul Zipser 4/$3.8m (first 2 years gtd, last year TO)
Isaiah Canaan 2/$2.1m (last year 200k gtd)
Spencer Dinwiddie 2/2m nongtd
OK:
You let Pau and Rose go and then replace them with Wade and Rondo? This is really weird. They're going to have NEGATIVE spacing.
I really don't like Rondo much, so that's probably influencing my dislike. Wade is fine I guess. I would have kept Moore and run Wade at the 2.
Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Rajon Rondo, Jerian Grant, Isaiah Canaan, Spencer Dinwiddie
SG: Dwyane Wade, Tony Snell, Denzel Valentine
SF: Jimmy Butler, Doug McDermott, Paul Zipser
PF: Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis, Nikola Mirotic
C: Robin Lopez, Cristiano Felicio
There are some solid players here. But I really don't like the fit.
Needs:
Spacing. Need shooters in the backcourt. Valentine needs to be solid straight away, and Snell/McDermott need to show something.
Additional Thoughts:
Projected Win/Loss:
45. This is still a good team, though mismatched.
Off-Season Grade:
C-. I just don't understand.
Slava wrote:Slava Review
Key Losses:
Derrick Rose
Pau Gasol
Joakim Noah
E’Twaun Moore
Mike Dunleavy
If all went well, Derrick Rose should be entering his prime now and for an ex-MVP its hard to not feel sad for him and the league to lose a superstar of that caliber to injuries. He was being compared to Westbrook at one time and now you could hardly put them in the same ballpark.
Owing to Pau, I watched this team more than anyone else but the Lakers over the past few seasons but I think he probably should have joined San Antonio when they initially made him an offer instead. I think he might have tipped the scale in atleast one of San Antonio's recent playoff losses. This could have been a nice fit had Noah stayed healthy but unfortunately that did not happen.
Moore & Dunleavy are the casualties of their desire to acquire Wade and Rondo through free agency and it puts a lot of responsibility on Snell and McDermott who are just not consistent and Valentine, who might not be ready.
Losses:
Aaron Brooks
Justin Holiday
Cameron Bairstow
I'm not even sure how Brooks is still in the league. He leveraged one good season under Adelman in Houston to a 7 year career since then. He is the entire gamut of awful from being a poor defender to inefficient scorer and he posted a -10 net rating last season. Good riddance.
Draft:
#14 Denzel Valentine
#48 Paul Zipser
If nothing else, Chicago usually draft well and the odd McDermott blip aside, they usually find solid value with mid to late first round picks and I like this draft for them.
Valentine is a savvy scorer with good vision and ideal size for the SG position and he might even play the lead ball handler in some line ups which gives Hoiberg the kind of versatility he usually covets.
Trades:
Cameron Bairstow for Spencer Dinwiddie
Derrick Rose, Justin Holiday and a 2017 2nd to NYK for Robin Lopez, Jose Calderon and Jerian Grant.
Jose Calderon, 2018 Den 2nd, 2019 LAL 2nd for the rights to Ater Majok (2011-58th).
Mike Dunleavy for a TPE (with foreign rights on both sides)
The Rose trade was excellent return for a player they absolutely did not wish to retain in free agency. Lopez fits them very well alongside either Gibson, Portis or Mirotic and Grant will find Chicago's offense a refreshing change from the triangle.
Free Agency:
Dwyane Wade 2/$47m (last year PO)
Rajon Rondo 2/$27.4m(last year 3m gtd)
Denzel Valentine rookie scale
Paul Zipser 4/$3.8m (first 2 years gtd, last year TO)
Isaiah Canaan 2/$2.1m (last year 200k gtd)
Spencer Dinwiddie 2/2m nongtd
Winning the Wade sweepstakes was huge for them as I don't think a poor season with Butler's attitude and the constant friction between him and Hoiberg would have served them well.
Just as much as I like the Wade deal, I dislike the Rondo acquisition, not least because he is a poor fit alongside Wade and Butler here but he hasn't been a good fit anywhere since Boston and I don't think adding that additional bit of moodiness, self serving assist hoggery etc would do Hoiberg any favors.
Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Rajon Rondo, Jerian Grant, Isaiah Canaan, Spencer Dinwiddie
SG: Dwyane Wade, Tony Snell, Denzel Valentine
SF: Jimmy Butler, Doug McDermott, Paul Zipser
PF: Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis, Nikola Mirotic
C: Robin Lopez, Cristiano Felicio
Love the big man depth and the quality in backcourt if Wade can stay healthy.
Dislike the Rondo fit, which will eventually doom their season at a crucial juncture.
If McDermott shows some consistency and Valentine proves ready, this team could be a real handful on its day to anyone in the East.
Needs:
1. They need to learn the Rondo lesson sooner than later and get a different starting PG.
2. If they don't plan on retaining Gibson, he sould make way for bringing in said PG and open up the starting spot to either Mirotic or Portis.
3. Some semblence of consistency from McDermott and Snell.
Additional Thoughts:
Despite the roster turnover, there is a lot to like about Chicago and there's good quality left owing to their success in drafting consistently well. They will tread the waters and likely be a lower seed but I wouldn't be surprised if Wade and Butler click well and they make the 2nd round.
Projected Win/Loss: 44-38
Off-Season Grade: B
GimmeDat wrote:GimmeDat Review
Key Losses:
Derrick Rose
Pau Gasol
Joakim Noah
E’Twaun Moore
Losses:
Mike Dunleavy
Justin Holiday
Cameron Bairstow
Aaron Brooks
A lot of change here, but largely expected losses. Most fans are content to see Pau move on despite 2 AS seasons here, and the Rose deal was also about time. Noah is a big loss, he was the heart and soul of this group, though his impact may be mitigated from this point on due to health. Moore was also a hometown player who played hard on both ends and will be missed.
Draft:
#14 Denzel Valentine
#48 Paul Zipser
Most fans went in to the draft with youth and athleticism and their minds, and as usual, the Bulls went in a different direction, but Valentine was a great value pick and Zipser also has a chance to crack the rotation as a 2nd rounder. 2 mature, NBA-ready pieces to add in.
Trades:
Cameron Bairstow for Spencer Dinwiddie
Derrick Rose, Justin Holiday and a 2017 2nd to NYK for Robin Lopez, Jose Calderon and Jerian Grant.
Jose Calderon, 2018 Den 2nd, 2019 LAL 2nd for the rights to Ater Majok (2011-58th).
Mike Dunleavy for a TPE (with foreign rights on both sides)
The Rose trade was always going to be bittersweet, but you can't fault the return given his contract and form situation. Plugged several roster holes and gained cap relief. Mike Dunleavy will be missed but he didn't have much left physically and was a necessary move to free up space. Bairstow for Dinwiddie isn't a notable move, but Dinwiddie does have more NBA potential. Unfortunately, there's not much room for him to play a role here as he's the 4th PG on the roster behind Rondo/Grant/Canaan.
Free Agency:
Dwyane Wade 2/$47m (last year PO)
Rajon Rondo 2/$27.4m(last year 3m gtd)
Denzel Valentine rookie scale
Paul Zipser 4/$3.8m (first 2 years gtd, last year TO)
Isaiah Canaan 2/$2.1m (last year 200k gtd)
Spencer Dinwiddie 2/2m nongtd
Couldn't have asked for much more in FA. Wade was a pleasant surprise and a no-brainer, Rondo is a solid value short term deal at a position of need, and Canaan is a good fit next to the array of ball handling, not-great shooting wings we have.
Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Rajon Rondo, Jerian Grant, Isaiah Canaan, Spencer Dinwiddie
SG: Dwyane Wade, Denzel Valentine, Tony Snell
SF: Jimmy Butler, Doug McDermott, Paul Zipser
PF: Nikola Mirotic, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis
C: Robin Lopez, Cristiano Felicio
Shooting will be a problem with this starting 5, which makes Mirotic a no-brainer to start at PF. Athleticism and perimeter defense will be the main holes with the 2nd unit, but there's some nice potential given the growth of some of the younger pieces, and some impressive 3rd tier depth in the case of injury.
Needs:
The Bulls continue to need more defense and athleticism, and better shooting in their starting lineup.
Additional Thoughts:
Interim moves to keep bums on seats. Big names, past their prime games, and an unusual match, but there's a lot of talent here and they do have real potential. They're filtering the young guys through for the future with Niko, Doug and Butler having expanded roles, and many other young guys with rotational roles as well.
Teams doing that can often be criticized of not picking a lane, but without the heavy expectations of winning now, I don't think having less experienced guys playing important roles on this team is as big of a deal.
Projected Win/Loss: 40-50 Anywhere between 40-50 wins seems like a fair estimate. There's a lot of question marks as to how guys will perform, how they'll fit together, and how healthy they'll stay, so there's quite a range of outcomes here.
Off-Season Grade: B- ...With mediocre offers for Jimmy Butler on the table, there's not a whole lot more you could expect of the Bulls to do this off-season. It was likely the right time to move on from Rose, and fortunate timing given the off-court events at the moment. The return was very solid, and for a fan-base yearning for change, the Bulls were able to luck in to the big name signing of Dwayne Wade.
Most fans aren't under the allusion that this is a contender or a long term direction for the franchise, but with that out of the way, it should be a captivating season or two with this group.
