CBS Sports "reporting": Sixers reportedly plan to trade either Nerlens Noel or Jahlil Okafor

[ET Da Gawd]

#KeepAllTheBigs

[76ciology]

#keepallthebigs

We still don't know how good Simmons and Embiid will be. Either way, selling short and/or giving up on both Noel/Jah is premature. Both bigs are much better than most people thought. It's Bb's job to be creative and make our talented roster work. Teams like OKC and Spurs were able to effectively rotate 3-4 bigs. May not be "there" yet, but both Jah and Biid's upside is at PF or playing like one (increase in man to man D/switch/rotations and perimeter shooting). Just the natural course of how game and general player development evolves.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1476622

For me this thread slightly touches the subject. Talks about how bigs evolving into playing like a wing (+ shooting - blocks/rebounding). Just what I've been discussing for quite some time.

[LloydFree]

I think that the "figure it out" part should be figured out by now. We have figured it out mostly on this site. It's just that we disagree on what we have figured out. Theoretically, BC's opinion on the Okafor/Noel debate is the only one that matters, and whichever guy he figures he wants to keep should be kept, and then the other one should be traded.

Now of course you can't make a horrible trade, and in that sense we may have to wait, but I doubt that he is still trying to determine who he wants to keep.

For me, as a prokafor, I think we should trade Noel, but I wouldn't trade him to the Celtics for Rozier and a non Net's pick, so if that is the current best offer then I'm going to hold. If we are deciding whether to take Bradley and a non Nets pick or not then I would say that the time to cut bait is now.

Agreed on all counts.

Noel makes the most sense for a variety of reasons but I'm not willing to just give him away. One of the things that sort of concerns me about BC is we are all assuming the offers for Noel are terrible and that why he hasn't been moved but outside a couple of rumors which may or may not be true we have no idea what is being offered.

I'm not sure I trust BC to not bungle this. We saw with Andrea he was unable to pull the trigger. Masai came in and almost immediately traded him for a first rounder. Why didn't BC? Was that deal not available. Like I said I agree with most of the moves BC has made this offseason but they are not franchise altering with the exception of Simmons which was the consensus number one pick. This has the potential to set us back bigtime if he chooses the wrong player and/or doesn't get a good package in return. He has to get this right.

Simmons is the foundation of this team. Embiid will join him if he can stay healthy. So basically it comes down to Bryan recognizing what you need from your C in the modern NBA, keeping that one, and then crafting a trade for the other where he gets a starting quality PG, SG, or SF plus a potentially good 1st; even if the overall deal is only 70-75¢ on the dollar.

Basically this, and such a simple concept to understand. It is confusing that this even needs to be debated. The only debate should be AFTER the trade, and was the return on Okafor acceptable.

[dorkestra]

Even if Embiid's knees disintegrated and Simmons ceased to exist, Noel and Okafor haven't complemented each other well and don't project to. It makes sense to move one. even if for a better fitting big man.

I do agree though that given we are a bottom five team in the league, we can afford to wait more than other teams can. We have fewer expectations. We're growing or whatever. Other teams who need a center don't have any more leverage on us than we do on them because well, we know they need a center.

There is a laughable notion going around that because other teams now "know" that we "need" to trade one, that it's going to come at pennies on the dollar.

[76ciology]

..I don't know if you guys have thought about it, but the same package teams seems to be offering for Jah/Noel can also be had with trading Jerami Grant and/or Holmes.

With that said, I don't know if the pro-trade people are just looking to dump the bigs just to clear the log jam and not looking what you can get in return.

At this point of time when we are less than 2 months away from the new NBA season and with almost a completely upgraded and new roster, I hope we can look past what has happened last season because of the "noise" and low sample size thus unreliable +/- and fit issues.

Let's see how teams Jah play with an improved physique and being a year more experience. While there won't be any cross match issues with him playing with Embiid. A lot of favorable changes going unto next season. Things will get better.

[LloydFree]

..I don't know if you guys have thought about it, but the same package teams seems to be offering for Jah/Noel can also be had with trading Jerami Grant and/or Holmes...

Pure conjecture based on nothing. None of us know what they are offering for Okafor or Noel. And if there is a GM in the league offering ANYTHING for Rashaun Holmes, I'd like to know who it is.

[spikeslovechild]

Even if Embiid's knees disintegrated and Simmons ceased to exist, Noel and Okafor haven't complemented each other well and don't project to. It makes sense to move one. even if for a better fitting big man.

I do agree though that given we are a bottom five team in the league, we can afford to wait more than other teams can. We have fewer expectations. We're growing or whatever. Other teams who need a center don't have any more leverage on us than we do on them because well, we know they need a center.

There is a laughable notion going around that because other teams now "know" that we "need" to trade one, that it's going to come at pennies on the dollar.

Like I said earlier it really depends on whether the FO plans on keeping and extending Noel. if the answer is yes they can afford to be patient because Okafor has three years left on his rookie deal. If they plan on moving Noel they really can't afford to wait until you get a perfect offer. I don't know if I'd accept seventy cents on the dollar. I'd have to know what seventy cents looks like. I would certainly be willing to accept a little less.

You have to. He's a RFA next year. The timetables are very different for the two players. Thats why I was pretty surprised about the recent rumors about them wanting/planning to move one of them before the season and they happen to like Noel more. It makes little sense and smells of a smokescreen. There is no urgency to move Okafor. If you wanted to trade him you could do so at any time in the next three years.

[Worm122]

I am totally against to trade any big just to free space because now Sixers will play to win and develop our players, now they have a great environment to play with good point guards and veteran presence we dont have hurry, we trust in process

[tk76]

Keep in mind, Hinkie waited to trade ET and ended up getting nothing for him. I'm not sure if he could have gotten a much better return the summer before... but waiting does not always pay off with a Sam Bradford trade

[LloydFree]

I don't believe they are waiting for any strategic advantage. I believe they could have traded Noel yesterday, for a good package, but they don't want to trade him. They are in a forced waiting pattern, because Okafor is the one they'd rather trade and there aren't any teams that need/want him.

[rzzzzz]

or they'd rather hold onto both young men and see how they perform with team mates with actual talent. i don't think Sam made any mistake taking either of them. and Bryan seems like he won't make the mistake of trading for less than what they're worth.

[Ericb5]

Keep in mind, Hinkie waited to trade ET and ended up getting nothing for him. I'm not sure if he could have gotten a much better return the summer before... but waiting does not always pay off with a Sam Bradford trade

I think he just was holding out for a first round pick, and when he couldn't get one he cut bait for a 2nd rounder.

I don't think that the act of holding out for too long hurt him. He just couldn't get what he wanted.

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[the_process]

Simmons is the foundation of this team. Embiid will join him if he can stay healthy. So basically it comes down to Bryan recognizing what you need from your C in the modern NBA, keeping that one, and then crafting a trade for the other where he gets a starting quality PG, SG, or SF plus a potentially good 1st; even if the overall deal is only 70-75¢ on the dollar.

That is sort of the point though. Simmons and Embiid won't be moved. The picks because they have potential to be franchise altering talent shouldn't and won't be moved.

I'm sorry, I should've been more clear. Simmons and (if healthy, which cannot be counted on yet) Embiid are the foundation. So you have to choose between Noel and Okafor the one which provides the skill set needed in a modern NBA C, and the other one dealt.

[the_process]

Simmons is the foundation of this team. Embiid will join him if he can stay healthy. So basically it comes down to Bryan recognizing what you need from your C in the modern NBA, keeping that one, and then crafting a trade for the other where he gets a starting quality PG, SG, or SF plus a potentially good 1st; even if the overall deal is only 70-75¢ on the dollar.

Disagree.

Embiid is the foundation of this team, if we are distilling it down to one player. He is the better player today, and the better player long term.

If he falters due to health it is great that we have a second franchise type guy in Simmons, but I take a healthy Embiid over Simmons all day. I will be happy to be proven wrong if they both stay healthy, and Simmons is the next Lebron, but my money is on Embiid.

We can't take 75 cents on the dollar for Noel or Okafor until we get to the point where we lose our leverage. We still have leverage until next summer with Noel.

Watch one of them break their leg in preseason and suddenly we end up keeping them both. Not asking for it obviously, but it would certainly free up some minutes.

Embiid cannot be counted on until he shows it on the court. And not just a reacclimation year where he plays 50-60 games, 750-1200 minutes. A full season, 65+ games, somewhere between 1800 and 2500 minutes. With no health issues. Then and only then does he become the franchise player. Until then, Simmons is the foundation. And if you get good luck with Embiid, then he makes your foundation that much stronger.

[rzzzzz]

I think he just was holding out for a first round pick, and when he couldn't get one he cut bait for a 2nd rounder.

I don't think that the act of holding out for too long hurt him. He just couldn't get what he wanted.

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yeah, and actually holding onto Turner was proving costly, because he was pulling out too many games Sam needed the team to lose. i think it was all worth it, but thankfully we're past the point where we're afraid of holding onto someone too long because we're in full tank mode.

[SparksFly87]

I think we should try and create a legit big three and throw a serious offer for Anthony. Davis with a combo of Noel , Okafor, Grant, Stauskus , Lakers , Kings swap and future 1st for anthony davis.

[Unbreakable99]

I think we should try and create a legit big three and throw a serious offer for Anthony. Davis with a combo of Noel , Okafor, Grant, Stauskus , Lakers , Kings swap and future 1st for anthony davis.

That's not even close enough to get AD. They would laugh the Sixers off the phone as they should. Noel and Okafor do nothing for to halp facilitate a trade with NO. The Lakers pick has lots of value only if it conveys next year. It may not even happen. The Lakers have a great chance to keep the pick and then who knows what about 2018 if that happens. And the 2018 draft is not as good as 2017. Davis is a known top 10 commodity. It's not a given even if the Lakers pick conveys at pick 4 if that player will ever be a top 10 player.

The only way you make NO think of trading Davis is including Ben Simmons in the trade. That's it.

[Ericb5]

Simmons is the foundation of this team. Embiid will join him if he can stay healthy. So basically it comes down to Bryan recognizing what you need from your C in the modern NBA, keeping that one, and then crafting a trade for the other where he gets a starting quality PG, SG, or SF plus a potentially good 1st; even if the overall deal is only 70-75¢ on the dollar.

Disagree.

Embiid is the foundation of this team, if we are distilling it down to one player. He is the better player today, and the better player long term.

If he falters due to health it is great that we have a second franchise type guy in Simmons, but I take a healthy Embiid over Simmons all day. I will be happy to be proven wrong if they both stay healthy, and Simmons is the next Lebron, but my money is on Embiid.

We can't take 75 cents on the dollar for Noel or Okafor until we get to the point where we lose our leverage. We still have leverage until next summer with Noel.

Watch one of them break their leg in preseason and suddenly we end up keeping them both. Not asking for it obviously, but it would certainly free up some minutes.

Embiid cannot be counted on until he shows it on the court. And not just a reacclimation year where he plays 50-60 games, 750-1200 minutes. A full season, 65+ games, somewhere between 1800 and 2500 minutes. With no health issues. Then and only then does he become the franchise player. Until then, Simmons is the foundation. And if you get good luck with Embiid, then he makes your foundation that much stronger.

Counting on him, and him being the best player are too different things.

I'm not counting on him yet, although I am very optimistic, but he is still going to be our best offensive and defensive player, and basically the whole center of our universe, as Brett Brown says it, until he gets hurt, or doesn't get hurt.

I think people let his injury risk cloud their assessment of him as a player.


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[spikeslovechild]

I don't believe they are waiting for any strategic advantage. I believe they could have traded Noel yesterday, for a good package, but they don't want to trade him. They are in a forced waiting pattern, because Okafor is the one they'd rather trade and there aren't any teams that need/want him.

I mean it's fine if you have that "belief" but it doesn't reflect the rumors surrounding both players from trusted sources. Okafor was rumored to have been targeted by the Celtics for the 3rd overall pick which at the time had a twenty five percent chance of being either Simmons or Ingram.

The two legitimate trade rumors we know about for Noel were Jeff Teague straight up and we were rumored to offer Roco, Noel, and two first round picks for Dunn (3rd overall) which the CELTICS TURNED DOWN.

Of course these are rumors so they may or may not be true but the Teague rumor was from Woj and the Vertical. The second rumor came from Marc Stein. The Okafor rumor came from Ainge himself.

I will agree with you that there are teams where Okafor doesn't fit. Namely, teams with elite guards and small forwards they would rather be the focal point of their offense. Of course there are only so many such players in the league.

[Ericb5]

I don't believe they are waiting for any strategic advantage. I believe they could have traded Noel yesterday, for a good package, but they don't want to trade him. They are in a forced waiting pattern, because Okafor is the one they'd rather trade and there aren't any teams that need/want him.

I mean it's fine if you have that "belief" but it doesn't reflect the rumors surrounding both players from trusted sources. Okafor was rumored to have been targeted by the Celtics for the 3rd overall pick which at the time had a twenty five percent chance of being either Simmons or Ingram.

The two legitimate trade rumors we know about for Noel were Jeff Teague straight up and we were rumored to offer Roco, Noel, and two first round picks for Dunn (3rd overall) which the CELTICS TURNED DOWN.

Of course these are rumors so they may or may not be true but the Teague rumor was from Woj and the Vertical. The second rumor came from Marc Stein. The Okafor rumor came from Ainge himself.

I will agree with you that there are teams where Okafor doesn't fit. Namely, teams with elite guards and small forwards they would rather be the focal point of their offense. Of course there are only so many such players in the league.

Again, the Teague rumor didn't come from Woj. He just retweeted someone else's report on it.

Woj hasn't reported anything on Sixers trade rumors recently that I can think of.


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