Who are the top ten NBA players of all time?

[Ballerhogger]

For me
1Kareem
2Michael Jordan
3Magic Johnson
4LeBron James
5Wilt Chamberlin
6 .Bill Russell
7.Tim Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Larry Bird

[Quotatious]

But 99% of the meaningful one's take place in the playoffs...

Maybe, but it's an extremely small sample compared to RS, and don't fool yourself thinking that players are waiting for the playoffs all season - you can never be sure if you will even get a chance to play in postseason - whether it is because of injuries or your team not qualifying, it's never a sure thing.

I also don't like the way people are basically neglecting the regular season and acting like it's Summer League or something...In reality, there are tons of highly competitive games during RS every year, when top tier teams meet, especially teams in the same conference. There are also non-competitive playoff games, especially when a #1 and 8 or #2 and 7 seeded teams face each other. Malone often played great in those, and he also had a fair share of excellent postseason games. The only difference between RS and playoffs Malone is his lower shooting percentage from the field in postseason, but his basic numbers are about the same.

I'm just making RS a much bigger part of my analysis than most people do, which is fine. Everybody can decide that for himself, there are equally good reasons to value RS or playoffs higher.

[Ballerhogger]

Jordan
Kareem
Lebron
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Russell
Magic
Bird

Swap Bird with KG and I have the same top 10 guys.

What makes KG more greater than Bird? I just don't see a case at all.

[Quotatious]

What makes KG more greater than Bird? I just don't see a case at all.

Bird's only real advantage are the rings, but it's not like KG had a chance to win rings in Minnesota, where he spent a vast majority of his prime. His only real chance was in 2004, but as you know, his best teammate Cassell got hurt during WCF and couldn't play in the last two games of that series - hell, not only that, but he averaged only 16 minutes per game during that entire series, in 4 games. KG losing Cassell is like, for example, Jordan losing Pippen in '98 ECF against Indiana, or in '92 ECF against Cleveland or in '93 against New York - hard to expect MJ to win those series if he didn't have Pippen (just some analogies, you can you use other examples - for example take Kobe off 2002 Lakers during WCF against Sacramento - would they still win? no chance).

[Ballerhogger]

But 99% of the meaningful one's take place in the playoffs...

Maybe, but it's an extremely small sample compared to RS, and don't fool yourself thinking that players are waiting for the playoffs all season - you can never be sure if you will even get a chance to play in postseason - whether it is because of injuries or your team not qualifying, it's never a sure thing.

I also don't like the way people are basically neglecting the regular season and acting like it's Summer League or something...In reality, there are tons of highly competitive games during RS every year, when top tier teams meet, especially teams in the same conference. Malone often played great in those, and he also had a fair share of excellent postseason games. The only difference between RS and playoffs Malone is his lower shooting percentage from the field in postseason, but his basic numbers are about the same.

I'm just making RS a much bigger part of my analysis than most people do, which is fine. Everybody can decide that for himself, there are equally good reasons to value RS or playoffs higher.

You'll have to really break down the years of RS and the players around the player you rank.
I'm surprised by this you don't have kobe higher up. He took one of the worst support casting to the playoffs in the one of the most toughest Western Conference years

[Ballerhogger]

What makes KG more greater than Bird? I just don't see a case at all.

Bird's only real advantage are the rings, but it's not like KG could've won rings in Minnesota, when he spent a vast majority of his prime.

9 to 4 all firsts
3 mvps vs 1
Garnett has DPOY and defensive but overall the offensive gap is just too big for me .

[SactoKingsFan]

The problem with having Malone in the top 10 is that he's probably the worst playoff performer among the guys we usually see in top 20. I can see stronger top 10 cases for Drob, Oscar and Kobe.

He's one of the best regular season performers ever, though (arguably top 5, taking his amazing longevity into account). You know, about 85-90% in a career of every player, consists of regular season games...

Malone's playoff issues are a big deal when he's being compared to other top 10 candidates that were also all-time great RS performers but were generally more reliable during the PS.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[eminence]

Jordan
Kareem
Lebron
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Russell
Magic
Bird

Swap Bird with KG and I have the same top 10 guys.

What makes KG more greater than Bird? I just don't see a case at all.

Longevity, better peak/prime, pretty much everything really... I believe in the impact stats far more than I'll ever trust box-score stats, and they paint KG pretty clearly as 1a/1b with Lebron since 2001.

Anywho, ElGee's recent stuff might make me have to rethink Oscar a bit as well.

[Ballerhogger]

Swap Bird with KG and I have the same top 10 guys.

What makes KG more greater than Bird? I just don't see a case at all.

Longevity, better peak/prime, pretty much everything really... I believe in the impact stats far more than I'll ever trust box-score stats, and they paint KG pretty clearly as 1a/1b with Lebron since 2001.

Anywho, ElGee's recent stuff might make me have to rethink Oscar a bit as well.

That's insane but its your list Garnett has never had impact of LeBron offensively.

[JordansBulls]

What makes KG more greater than Bird? I just don't see a case at all.

Longevity, better peak/prime, pretty much everything really... I believe in the impact stats far more than I'll ever trust box-score stats, and they paint KG pretty clearly as 1a/1b with Lebron since 2001.

Anywho, ElGee's recent stuff might make me have to rethink Oscar a bit as well.

That's insane but its your list Garnett has never had impact of LeBron offensively.

What's Kareem case over MJ and Russell? I mean he won 5 of his titles with another top 5 player all time and at least 3-4 as a 2nd option. Longevity means nothing if you arent the best player for a good 7-9 years when winning.

[Quotatious]

9 to 4 all firsts

Garnett played against Duncan and Nowitzki almost his entire prime in the same conference, though. As good as those 80s small forwards were, none of them except for early 80s Erving was really in Bird's class.

3 mvps vs 1

As you know, team record has a lot to do with MVP voting. Your chances of winning an MVP are pretty slim if you play on a team that wins less than 55 games. In the last 30 years (since Bird's prime), only two players won MVPs on teams that won below 55 games - Jordan in 1988 and Nash in 2006 (but Nash's team won 54, so just one game below that). Guess what - the only time KG played on a team that was talented enough to win more than 55 games in Minnesota - in 2004, he won the MVP almost unanimously - he got 120 of 123 possible first place votes).

Garnett has DPOY and defensive but overall the offensive gap is just too big for me .

It's okay, that's a matter of preference. Can't really convince you otherwise. Bird was obviously a great player who deserves to be in top 10 all-time conversation, can't really go wrong with him.

That's insane but its your list Garnett has never had impact of LeBron offensively.

Offense isn't the only thing that matters, though. Garnett was better defensively than LeBron. Anyway, I think LeBron is clearly better than KG, so I'm not gonna argue with that, I just wanted to point that out. For example Bill Russell is universally considered a top 10 player of all-time, even a GOAT candidate to many people, and that's certainly not because of his offense, which was nothing special, relatively average.

Longevity, better peak/prime, pretty much everything really... I believe in the impact stats far more than I'll ever trust box-score stats, and they paint KG pretty clearly as 1a/1b with Lebron since 2001.

I rely on box-score stats in my analysis a lot more than you do, and even based on box-score stuff, KG has a good case over Bird.

[eminence]

What makes KG more greater than Bird? I just don't see a case at all.

Longevity, better peak/prime, pretty much everything really... I believe in the impact stats far more than I'll ever trust box-score stats, and they paint KG pretty clearly as 1a/1b with Lebron since 2001.

Anywho, ElGee's recent stuff might make me have to rethink Oscar a bit as well.

That's insane but its your list Garnett has never had impact of LeBron offensively.

And? Lebron has never had the impact of Garnett defensively either, but when we look at the whole game they come out very similarly.

[eminence]

Longevity, better peak/prime, pretty much everything really... I believe in the impact stats far more than I'll ever trust box-score stats, and they paint KG pretty clearly as 1a/1b with Lebron since 2001.

I rely on box-score stats in my analysis a lot more than you do, and even based on box-score stuff, KG has a good case over Bird.

Oh yeah, agreed, just short-forming my reply

[Quotatious]

What's Kareem case over MJ and Russell? I mean he won 5 of his titles with another top 5 player all time and at least 3-4 as a 2nd option. Longevity means nothing if you arent the best player for a good 7-9 years when winning.

Kareem was the best player in the NBA almost every year between 1971 and 1980, with the exception of 1975 and maybe 1978 due to 20 missed games. He was so great in the 70s that he even won the MVP while playing on a team with losing record, in 1976 (and players were voting for the MVP at that time, not journalists, so it probably meant even more to those who won it, it was a sign of ultimate respect from your opponents).

I think you would agree that MJ was the best player in the league in 1988, 1989 and 1990, and also had a good case in 1987, when Magic's and Bird's teams were generally more successful than Michael's team. Also, Magic won the MVP in 1989 and 1990, but it's hard to say he was a better player than Michael. It's kinda similar with Kareem - even dragging that mediocre Laker team to 53 wins in 1977 was a great achievement (they had the best record in the league that year).

Oh, and KAJ was still making All-NBA teams in the mid 80s, and was a co-leader (alongside Magic) of a team that either won championships or at least made the finals almost every year. He made his last All-NBA 1st team at age 39 in 1986, he was in top 5 MVP voting three years in a row between age 37 and 39. Nobody in NBA history was so great at that age. Only Karl Malone and Duncan even come close.

[JordansBulls]

What's Kareem case over MJ and Russell? I mean he won 5 of his titles with another top 5 player all time and at least 3-4 as a 2nd option. Longevity means nothing if you arent the best player for a good 7-9 years when winning.

Kareem was the best player in the NBA almost every year between 1971 and 1980, with the exception of 1975 and maybe 1978 due to 20 missed games. He was so great in the 70s that he even won the MVP while playing on a team with losing record, in 1976 (and players were voting for the MVP at that time, not journalists, so it probably meant even more to those who won it, it was a sign of ultimate respect from your opponents).

I think you would agree that MJ was the best player in the league in 1988, 1989 and 1990, and also had a good case in 1987, when Magic's and Bird's teams were generally more successful than Michael's team. Also, Magic won the MVP in 1989 and 1990, but it's hard to say he was a better player than Michael. It's kinda similar with Kareem - even dragging that mediocre Laker team to 53 wins in 1977 was a great achievement (they had the best record in the league that year).

Oh, and KAJ was still making All-NBA teams in the mid 80s, and was a co-leader (alongside Magic) of a team that either won championships or at least made the finals almost every year. He made his last All-NBA 1st team at age 39 in 1986, he was in top 5 MVP voting three years in a row between age 37 and 39. Nobody in NBA history was so great at that age. Only Karl Malone and Duncan even come close.

I understand but he wasn't the best on his team after 1982 at all, so that is at least 3 titles of his 6 his wasn't and one title he was the 3rd best player on the squad, hardly impressive, not to mention 5 defeats with HCA.

[Ballerhogger]

Longevity, better peak/prime, pretty much everything really... I believe in the impact stats far more than I'll ever trust box-score stats, and they paint KG pretty clearly as 1a/1b with Lebron since 2001.

Anywho, ElGee's recent stuff might make me have to rethink Oscar a bit as well.

That's insane but its your list Garnett has never had impact of LeBron offensively.

What's Kareem case over MJ and Russell? I mean he won 5 of his titles with another top 5 player all time and at least 3-4 as a 2nd option. Longevity means nothing if you arent the best player for a good 7-9 years.

Jordan had great cast around him as well . Let's not pretend he didn't have help.

[JordansBulls]

That's insane but its your list Garnett has never had impact of LeBron offensively.

What's Kareem case over MJ and Russell? I mean he won 5 of his titles with another top 5 player all time and at least 3-4 as a 2nd option. Longevity means nothing if you arent the best player for a good 7-9 years.

Jordan had great cast around him as well . Let's not pretend he didn't have help.

No one ever won league or finals mvp with him like they did with Kareem who had a guy who won league and finals mvp's on multiple ocasions.

[KobesScarf]

What's Kareem case over MJ and Russell? I mean he won 5 of his titles with another top 5 player all time and at least 3-4 as a 2nd option. Longevity means nothing if you arent the best player for a good 7-9 years.

Jordan had great cast around him as well . Let's not pretend he didn't have help.

No one ever won league or finals mvp with him like they did with Kareem who had a guy who won league and finals mvp's on multiple ocasions.

In 94 the Bulls won 55 games with Pippen and Grant missing TWENTY-TWO games, nuff said.

Relative to the competition Jordan had the best supporting cast ever.

[JordansBulls]

Jordan had great cast around him as well . Let's not pretend he didn't have help.

No one ever won league or finals mvp with him like they did with Kareem who had a guy who won league and finals mvp's on multiple ocasions.

In 94 the Bulls won 55 games with Pippen and Grant missing TWENTY-TWO games, nuff said.

Relative to the competition Jordan had the best supporting cast ever.

Nope, unless you can prove those guys won league or finals mvp like Magic or Worthy did with Kareem or even without him.

[KobesScarf]

No one ever won league or finals mvp with him like they did with Kareem who had a guy who won league and finals mvp's on multiple ocasions.

In 94 the Bulls won 55 games with Pippen and Grant missing TWENTY-TWO games, nuff said.

Relative to the competition Jordan had the best supporting cast ever.

Nope, unless you can prove those guys won league or finals mvp like Magic or Worthy did with Kareem or even without him.

Very very good chance if Pippen and Grant don't get hurt. the Bulls have #1 seed and win the Finals