CBS Sports "reporting": Sixers reportedly plan to trade either Nerlens Noel or Jahlil Okafor

[hookshot199]

I'm having a hard time deciding which bad point on this page to disprove, but beyond the silliness of citing a one game sample size to build your entire roster around, Monroe is one guy, their starting power forward was Jabari who is smaller than Simmons.

Which leads me to the point that people have to get over this idea that a Simmons/Embiid front court is small ball. Stop acting like a lineup with a 6'10" guy and a 7'3" guy is some sort of gimmick. A lineup with two centers in it would be the gimmick and it will take some very inventive solutions by Brett to figure it out.

There's precedent for it, at least one, the mid-1980s Rockets with Olajuwon and Sampson. In their second year together, they took a very good Celtics team six games into the finals. It's a little difficult to compare because Sampson was 23 when he was drafted and Olajuwon 21.

[Sixerscan]

I'm having a hard time deciding which bad point on this page to disprove, but beyond the silliness of citing a one game sample size to build your entire roster around, Monroe is one guy, their starting power forward was Jabari who is smaller than Simmons.

Which leads me to the point that people have to get over this idea that a Simmons/Embiid front court is small ball. Stop acting like a lineup with a 6'10" guy and a 7'3" guy is some sort of gimmick. A lineup with two centers in it would be the gimmick and it will take some very inventive solutions by Brett to figure it out.

There's precedent for it, at least one, the mid-1980s Rockets with Olajuwon and Sampson. In their second year together, they took a very good Celtics team six games into the finals. It's a little difficult to compare because Sampson was 23 when he was drafted and Olajuwon 21.

Im not saying it can't work, I'm just saying its a gimmick. Gimmicks work sometimes. A bunch of other teams tried that after the rockets and it rarely worked. The Ewing/Cartwright experiment for example. (Which has a lot more in common with our centers than dream/Sampson frankly). And that was in the 80s when everyone played 2/3 big guys.

A center sized person playing center and a power forward sized person playing power forward is not small ball.

[Sixerscan]

This OKC comparison is also silly.

1. They lost.
2. Kanter played like 10 minutes a game in that series.
3. Durant played a TON of 4 in that series and finished almost every game there.
4. They lost.
5. OKC had durant and Westbrook acting like they were in the series because of their big men is misleading.
6. Durant isn't just a better shooter than Simmons he's maybe the best of all time.
7. Ibaka is a power forward not a center
8. Ibaka is a plus 3 point shooter (and 45% in the playoffs!) and one of the best and mobile defensive big men in the game.
7. OKC liked their Adams/Ibaka pair so much that they traded Ibaka for (wait for it) a guard so they could play Durant at the 4 more.
8. They lost.

Did I miss anything?

[hookshot199]

I'm having a hard time deciding which bad point on this page to disprove, but beyond the silliness of citing a one game sample size to build your entire roster around, Monroe is one guy, their starting power forward was Jabari who is smaller than Simmons.

Which leads me to the point that people have to get over this idea that a Simmons/Embiid front court is small ball. Stop acting like a lineup with a 6'10" guy and a 7'3" guy is some sort of gimmick. A lineup with two centers in it would be the gimmick and it will take some very inventive solutions by Brett to figure it out.

There's precedent for it, at least one, the mid-1980s Rockets with Olajuwon and Sampson. In their second year together, they took a very good Celtics team six games into the finals. It's a little difficult to compare because Sampson was 23 when he was drafted and Olajuwon 21.

Im not saying it can't work, I'm just saying its a gimmick. A bunch of other teams tried that after the rockets and it rarely worked. The Ewing/Cartwright experiment for example. (Which has a lot more in common with our centers than dream/Sampson frankly). And that was in the 80s when everyone played 2/3 big guys.

A center sized person playing center and a power forward sized person playing power forward is not small ball.

Interesting, Cartwright and Ewing. I had forgotten that that didn't really work. Then again, Cartwright didn't have the offensive game that Okafor and Embiid appear to have. And the trade, Cartwright for Charles Oakley, was a bit like McGinnis for Bobby Jones in terms of team chemistry.

But getting back to my main question: The hand-checking rules, in particular, benefit the offense. On the other hand, I don't believe there has ever been a team that has so many center prospects. Contrary to what our friends (sic) up in Boston think, Okafor is a can't miss offensive player. Embiid would appear to be the same. And Saric has enormous upside. So theoretically you might see three or four trees in the lineup at one time counting Simmons.

And I'm not discussing defense. That's a separate conversation.

But if you go with a two, three or four-tree offense and forfeit some of your defensive capability, then the calculation becomes: Who has enough pure shooters to consistently trade three points for two?

The caveat being: that some of the league's least productive players have lit us up over the years.

[Sixerscan]

There's precedent for it, at least one, the mid-1980s Rockets with Olajuwon and Sampson. In their second year together, they took a very good Celtics team six games into the finals. It's a little difficult to compare because Sampson was 23 when he was drafted and Olajuwon 21.

Im not saying it can't work, I'm just saying its a gimmick. A bunch of other teams tried that after the rockets and it rarely worked. The Ewing/Cartwright experiment for example. (Which has a lot more in common with our centers than dream/Sampson frankly). And that was in the 80s when everyone played 2/3 big guys.

A center sized person playing center and a power forward sized person playing power forward is not small ball.

Interesting, Cartwright and Ewing. I had forgotten that that didn't really work. Then again, Cartwright didn't have the offensive game that Okafor and Embiid appear to have. And the trade, Cartwright for Charles Oakley, was a bit like McGinnis for Bobby Jones in terms of team chemistry.

But getting back to my main question: The hand-checking rules, in particular, benefit the offense. On the other hand, I don't believe there has ever been a team that has so many center prospects. Contrary to what our friends (sic) up in Boston think, Okafor is a can't miss offensive player. Embiid would appear to be the same. And Saric has enormous upside. So theoretically you might see three or four trees in the lineup at one time counting Simmons.

And I'm not discussing defense. That's a separate conversation.

But if you go with a two, three or four-tree offense and forfeit some of your defensive capability, then the calculation becomes: Who has enough pure shooters to consistently trade three points for two?

The caveat being: that some of the league's least productive players have lit us up over the years.

I think you're jumping through a lot of hoops in assuming that lineup would be effective offensively.

[LloydFree]

There's precedent for it, at least one, the mid-1980s Rockets with Olajuwon and Sampson. In their second year together, they took a very good Celtics team six games into the finals. It's a little difficult to compare because Sampson was 23 when he was drafted and Olajuwon 21.

Im not saying it can't work, I'm just saying its a gimmick. A bunch of other teams tried that after the rockets and it rarely worked. The Ewing/Cartwright experiment for example. (Which has a lot more in common with our centers than dream/Sampson frankly). And that was in the 80s when everyone played 2/3 big guys.

A center sized person playing center and a power forward sized person playing power forward is not small ball.

Interesting, Cartwright and Ewing. I had forgotten that that didn't really work. Then again, Cartwright didn't have the offensive game that Okafor and Embiid appear to have. And the trade, Cartwright for Charles Oakley, was a bit like McGinnis for Bobby Jones in terms of team chemistry.

But getting back to my main question: The hand-checking rules, in particular, benefit the offense. On the other hand, I don't believe there has ever been a team that has so many center prospects. Contrary to what our friends (sic) up in Boston think, Okafor is a can't miss offensive player. Embiid would appear to be the same. And Saric has enormous upside. So theoretically you might see three or four trees in the lineup at one time counting Simmons.

And I'm not discussing defense. That's a separate conversation.

But if you go with a two, three or four-tree offense and forfeit some of your defensive capability, then the calculation becomes: Who has enough pure shooters to consistently trade three points for two?

The caveat being: that some of the league's least productive players have lit us up over the years.

The fact that Cartwright and Ewing didn't work on the court is not even the worst part about that situation. The pairing by Hubie Brown, forced Ewing (the much better talent) to totally change his game. Houston did the opposite with Olajuwon and made him the Center and made (an equal prospect) Ralph Sampson, the Power Forward. Hubie Brown developed Ewing as a jump shooting PF to accommodate Cartwright. Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon coming into the league, but due to the way he was developed, it contributed to him becoming a lesser pro. That is my greatest fear in the 76ers' situation. Embiid's development being compromised in an attempt to accommodate lesser players.

[Sixerscan]

Im not saying it can't work, I'm just saying its a gimmick. A bunch of other teams tried that after the rockets and it rarely worked. The Ewing/Cartwright experiment for example. (Which has a lot more in common with our centers than dream/Sampson frankly). And that was in the 80s when everyone played 2/3 big guys.

A center sized person playing center and a power forward sized person playing power forward is not small ball.

Interesting, Cartwright and Ewing. I had forgotten that that didn't really work. Then again, Cartwright didn't have the offensive game that Okafor and Embiid appear to have. And the trade, Cartwright for Charles Oakley, was a bit like McGinnis for Bobby Jones in terms of team chemistry.

But getting back to my main question: The hand-checking rules, in particular, benefit the offense. On the other hand, I don't believe there has ever been a team that has so many center prospects. Contrary to what our friends (sic) up in Boston think, Okafor is a can't miss offensive player. Embiid would appear to be the same. And Saric has enormous upside. So theoretically you might see three or four trees in the lineup at one time counting Simmons.

And I'm not discussing defense. That's a separate conversation.

But if you go with a two, three or four-tree offense and forfeit some of your defensive capability, then the calculation becomes: Who has enough pure shooters to consistently trade three points for two?

The caveat being: that some of the league's least productive players have lit us up over the years.

The fact that Cartwright and Ewing didn't work on the court is not even the worst part about that situation. The pairing by Hubie Brown, forced Ewing (the much better talent) to totally change his game. Houston did the opposite with Olajuwon and made him the Center and made (an equal prospect) Ralph Sampson, the Power Forward. Hubie Brown developed Ewing as a jump shooting PF to accommodate Cartwright. Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon coming into the league, but due to the way he was developed, it contributed to him to become a lesser pro. That is my greatest fear in the 76ers' situation. Embiid's development being compromised in an attempt to accommodate lesser players.

Or Simmons's

[hookshot199]

Im not saying it can't work, I'm just saying its a gimmick. A bunch of other teams tried that after the rockets and it rarely worked. The Ewing/Cartwright experiment for example. (Which has a lot more in common with our centers than dream/Sampson frankly). And that was in the 80s when everyone played 2/3 big guys.

A center sized person playing center and a power forward sized person playing power forward is not small ball.

Interesting, Cartwright and Ewing. I had forgotten that that didn't really work. Then again, Cartwright didn't have the offensive game that Okafor and Embiid appear to have. And the trade, Cartwright for Charles Oakley, was a bit like McGinnis for Bobby Jones in terms of team chemistry.

But getting back to my main question: The hand-checking rules, in particular, benefit the offense. On the other hand, I don't believe there has ever been a team that has so many center prospects. Contrary to what our friends (sic) up in Boston think, Okafor is a can't miss offensive player. Embiid would appear to be the same. And Saric has enormous upside. So theoretically you might see three or four trees in the lineup at one time counting Simmons.

And I'm not discussing defense. That's a separate conversation.

But if you go with a two, three or four-tree offense and forfeit some of your defensive capability, then the calculation becomes: Who has enough pure shooters to consistently trade three points for two?

The caveat being: that some of the league's least productive players have lit us up over the years.

I think you're jumping through a lot of hoops in assuming that lineup would be effective offensively.

I realize that. But I also happen to think that Okafor and Embiid will be virtually unstoppable inside five or six feet. If they're paired together, who has two primo defensive centers/power forwards? You can't double team both of them.

And we have enough veteran guards to go along with Simmons that we won't have the early season disasters of the past two seasons - at least from the standpoint of new team quarterback.

[the_process]

Interesting, Cartwright and Ewing. I had forgotten that that didn't really work. Then again, Cartwright didn't have the offensive game that Okafor and Embiid appear to have. And the trade, Cartwright for Charles Oakley, was a bit like McGinnis for Bobby Jones in terms of team chemistry.

But getting back to my main question: The hand-checking rules, in particular, benefit the offense. On the other hand, I don't believe there has ever been a team that has so many center prospects. Contrary to what our friends (sic) up in Boston think, Okafor is a can't miss offensive player. Embiid would appear to be the same. And Saric has enormous upside. So theoretically you might see three or four trees in the lineup at one time counting Simmons.

And I'm not discussing defense. That's a separate conversation.

But if you go with a two, three or four-tree offense and forfeit some of your defensive capability, then the calculation becomes: Who has enough pure shooters to consistently trade three points for two?

The caveat being: that some of the league's least productive players have lit us up over the years.

I think you're jumping through a lot of hoops in assuming that lineup would be effective offensively.

I realize that. But I also happen to think that Okafor and Embiid will be virtually unstoppable inside five or six feet. If they're paired together, who has two primo defensive centers/power forwards? You can't double team both of them.

And we have enough veteran guards to go along with Simmons that we won't have the early season disasters of the past two seasons - at least from the standpoint of new team quarterback.

You don't have to double either of them... you pack the paint and dare the Sixers to shoot you out of it.

You don't need offense from your C. Okafor is the odd man out here. And Noel could be out before the end of his 2nd deal too if Embiid lives up to his hype and can stay healthy.

[hookshot199]

Im not saying it can't work, I'm just saying its a gimmick. A bunch of other teams tried that after the rockets and it rarely worked. The Ewing/Cartwright experiment for example. (Which has a lot more in common with our centers than dream/Sampson frankly). And that was in the 80s when everyone played 2/3 big guys.

A center sized person playing center and a power forward sized person playing power forward is not small ball.

Interesting, Cartwright and Ewing. I had forgotten that that didn't really work. Then again, Cartwright didn't have the offensive game that Okafor and Embiid appear to have. And the trade, Cartwright for Charles Oakley, was a bit like McGinnis for Bobby Jones in terms of team chemistry.

But getting back to my main question: The hand-checking rules, in particular, benefit the offense. On the other hand, I don't believe there has ever been a team that has so many center prospects. Contrary to what our friends (sic) up in Boston think, Okafor is a can't miss offensive player. Embiid would appear to be the same. And Saric has enormous upside. So theoretically you might see three or four trees in the lineup at one time counting Simmons.

And I'm not discussing defense. That's a separate conversation.

But if you go with a two, three or four-tree offense and forfeit some of your defensive capability, then the calculation becomes: Who has enough pure shooters to consistently trade three points for two?

The caveat being: that some of the league's least productive players have lit us up over the years.

The fact that Cartwright and Ewing didn't work on the court is not even the worst part about that situation. The pairing by Hubie Brown, forced Ewing (the much better talent) to totally change his game. Houston did the opposite with Olajuwon and made him the Center and made (an equal prospect) Ralph Sampson, the Power Forward. Hubie Brown developed Ewing as a jump shooting PF to accommodate Cartwright. Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon coming into the league, but due to the way he was developed, it contributed to him to become a lesser pro. That is my greatest fear in the 76ers' situation. Embiid's development being compromised in an attempt to accommodate lesser players.

I'm not sure how relevant the Cartwright-Ewing example is because Cartwright was down most of Ewing's first season. Both missed 20-30 games in his second. So there was really one full season after which Ewing played center for most of the rest of his career. Teaching him to shoot wasn't a terrible thing.

I also don't agree, having watched both of their careers in college, that Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon. They were both number one picks in successive years. I personally think that Olajuwon was a better pro because he was a better player, not because Ewing was developed differently. Both took their teams to the playoffs repeatedly - 15 out of 18 seasons for Ewing, 14 out of 17 seasons for Olajuwon.

Lastly, the Twin Tower concept didn't play out in Houston because Ralph Sampson went down after their 1986 finals run, their second year together.

[LloydFree]

Interesting, Cartwright and Ewing. I had forgotten that that didn't really work. Then again, Cartwright didn't have the offensive game that Okafor and Embiid appear to have. And the trade, Cartwright for Charles Oakley, was a bit like McGinnis for Bobby Jones in terms of team chemistry.

But getting back to my main question: The hand-checking rules, in particular, benefit the offense. On the other hand, I don't believe there has ever been a team that has so many center prospects. Contrary to what our friends (sic) up in Boston think, Okafor is a can't miss offensive player. Embiid would appear to be the same. And Saric has enormous upside. So theoretically you might see three or four trees in the lineup at one time counting Simmons.

And I'm not discussing defense. That's a separate conversation.

But if you go with a two, three or four-tree offense and forfeit some of your defensive capability, then the calculation becomes: Who has enough pure shooters to consistently trade three points for two?

The caveat being: that some of the league's least productive players have lit us up over the years.

The fact that Cartwright and Ewing didn't work on the court is not even the worst part about that situation. The pairing by Hubie Brown, forced Ewing (the much better talent) to totally change his game. Houston did the opposite with Olajuwon and made him the Center and made (an equal prospect) Ralph Sampson, the Power Forward. Hubie Brown developed Ewing as a jump shooting PF to accommodate Cartwright. Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon coming into the league, but due to the way he was developed, it contributed to him to become a lesser pro. That is my greatest fear in the 76ers' situation. Embiid's development being compromised in an attempt to accommodate lesser players.

I'm not sure how relevant the Cartwright-Ewing example is because Cartwright was down most of Ewing's first season. Both missed 20-30 games in his second. So there was really one full season after which Ewing played center for most of the rest of his career. Teaching him to shoot wasn't a terrible thing.

I also don't agree, having watched both of their careers in college, that Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon. They were both number one picks in successive years. I personally think that Olajuwon was a better pro because he was a better player, not because Ewing was developed differently. Both took their teams to the playoffs repeatedly - 15 out of 18 seasons for Ewing, 14 out of 17 seasons for Olajuwon.

Lastly, the Twin Tower concept didn't play out in Houston because Ralph Sampson went down after their 1986 finals run, their second year together.

OK. We can agree to disagree. I watched both in college too, and even saw Ewing's McDonald's game. Ewing was more highly regarded than any prospect (Including Jordan) in the last 40 years and was thought to be the next Bill Russell. Both Houston and Portland were fined a quarter million for going onto Georgetown's campus to get Ewing to come out in '84. Both teams preferred Ewing to Olajuwon and Jordan. If you feel that Olajuwon was the better prospect, then you should applaud yourself. You were smarter than Houston's GM. You were the only person on Earth that believed that at the time. Congrats.

[hookshot199]

I think you're jumping through a lot of hoops in assuming that lineup would be effective offensively.

I realize that. But I also happen to think that Okafor and Embiid will be virtually unstoppable inside five or six feet. If they're paired together, who has two primo defensive centers/power forwards? You can't double team both of them.

And we have enough veteran guards to go along with Simmons that we won't have the early season disasters of the past two seasons - at least from the standpoint of new team quarterback.

You don't have to double either of them... you pack the paint and dare the Sixers to shoot you out of it.

You don't need offense from your C. Okafor is the odd man out here. And Noel could be out before the end of his 2nd deal too if Embiid lives up to his hype and can stay healthy.

The problem with that is that both can shoot a short jumper, at least Okafor can. So unless you've got two Nerlens Noels or two DeAndre Jordans on your roster, you going to be overmatched. I understand the point you're trying to make. But Okafor and Embiid aren't stiffs. They're coordinated young men. And all signs point to the fact that Saric and Simmons will be superb playmakers.

[Sixerscan]

The fact that Cartwright and Ewing didn't work on the court is not even the worst part about that situation. The pairing by Hubie Brown, forced Ewing (the much better talent) to totally change his game. Houston did the opposite with Olajuwon and made him the Center and made (an equal prospect) Ralph Sampson, the Power Forward. Hubie Brown developed Ewing as a jump shooting PF to accommodate Cartwright. Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon coming into the league, but due to the way he was developed, it contributed to him to become a lesser pro. That is my greatest fear in the 76ers' situation. Embiid's development being compromised in an attempt to accommodate lesser players.

I'm not sure how relevant the Cartwright-Ewing example is because Cartwright was down most of Ewing's first season. Both missed 20-30 games in his second. So there was really one full season after which Ewing played center for most of the rest of his career. Teaching him to shoot wasn't a terrible thing.

I also don't agree, having watched both of their careers in college, that Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon. They were both number one picks in successive years. I personally think that Olajuwon was a better pro because he was a better player, not because Ewing was developed differently. Both took their teams to the playoffs repeatedly - 15 out of 18 seasons for Ewing, 14 out of 17 seasons for Olajuwon.

Lastly, the Twin Tower concept didn't play out in Houston because Ralph Sampson went down after their 1986 finals run, their second year together.

OK. We can agree to disagree. I watched both in college too, and even saw Ewing's McDonald's game. Ewing was more highly regarded than any prospect (Including Jordan) in the last 40 years and was thought to be the next Bill Russell. Both Houston and Portland were fined a quarter million for going onto Georgetown's campus to get Ewing to come out in '84. Both teams preferred Ewing to Olajuwon and Jordan. If you feel that Olajuwon was the better prospect, then you should applaud yourself. You were smarter than Houston's GM. You were the only person on Earth that believed that at the time. Congrats.

I think the fact that we're talking about two teams from 30 years ago tells you a lot about this situation.

[hookshot199]

The fact that Cartwright and Ewing didn't work on the court is not even the worst part about that situation. The pairing by Hubie Brown, forced Ewing (the much better talent) to totally change his game. Houston did the opposite with Olajuwon and made him the Center and made (an equal prospect) Ralph Sampson, the Power Forward. Hubie Brown developed Ewing as a jump shooting PF to accommodate Cartwright. Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon coming into the league, but due to the way he was developed, it contributed to him to become a lesser pro. That is my greatest fear in the 76ers' situation. Embiid's development being compromised in an attempt to accommodate lesser players.

I'm not sure how relevant the Cartwright-Ewing example is because Cartwright was down most of Ewing's first season. Both missed 20-30 games in his second. So there was really one full season after which Ewing played center for most of the rest of his career. Teaching him to shoot wasn't a terrible thing.

I also don't agree, having watched both of their careers in college, that Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon. They were both number one picks in successive years. I personally think that Olajuwon was a better pro because he was a better player, not because Ewing was developed differently. Both took their teams to the playoffs repeatedly - 15 out of 18 seasons for Ewing, 14 out of 17 seasons for Olajuwon.

Lastly, the Twin Tower concept didn't play out in Houston because Ralph Sampson went down after their 1986 finals run, their second year together.

OK. We can agree to disagree. I watched both in college too, and even saw Ewing's McDonald's game. Ewing was more highly regarded than any prospect (Including Jordan) in the last 40 years and was thought to be the next Bill Russell. Both Houston and Portland were fined a quarter million for going onto Georgetown's campus to get Ewing to come out in '84. Both teams preferred Ewing to Olajuwon and Jordan. If you feel that Olajuwon was the better prospect, then you should applaud yourself. You were smarter than Houston's GM. You were the only person on Earth that believed that at the time. Congrats.

No, I didn't believe that Olajuwon was better coming out of college than Ewing. But I thought they were equivalent prospects. No need to be insulting.

[76ciology]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/examining-sixers-dilemma-trade-noel-or-okafor-looking-at-possible-deals/

[hookshot199]

I'm not sure how relevant the Cartwright-Ewing example is because Cartwright was down most of Ewing's first season. Both missed 20-30 games in his second. So there was really one full season after which Ewing played center for most of the rest of his career. Teaching him to shoot wasn't a terrible thing.

I also don't agree, having watched both of their careers in college, that Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon. They were both number one picks in successive years. I personally think that Olajuwon was a better pro because he was a better player, not because Ewing was developed differently. Both took their teams to the playoffs repeatedly - 15 out of 18 seasons for Ewing, 14 out of 17 seasons for Olajuwon.

Lastly, the Twin Tower concept didn't play out in Houston because Ralph Sampson went down after their 1986 finals run, their second year together.

OK. We can agree to disagree. I watched both in college too, and even saw Ewing's McDonald's game. Ewing was more highly regarded than any prospect (Including Jordan) in the last 40 years and was thought to be the next Bill Russell. Both Houston and Portland were fined a quarter million for going onto Georgetown's campus to get Ewing to come out in '84. Both teams preferred Ewing to Olajuwon and Jordan. If you feel that Olajuwon was the better prospect, then you should applaud yourself. You were smarter than Houston's GM. You were the only person on Earth that believed that at the time. Congrats.

I think the fact that we're talking about two teams from 30 years ago tells you a lot about this situation.

Yes, it does. It's truly rare that a team drafts three highly rated centers in four years. Noel probably would have been number one. Embiid would have been number one. Okafor was rated number one throughout much of the 2014-2015 season. The last and only time that may have happened was 1983 and 1984. Duncan joining Robinson is similar in some respects. But it's a rarity.

[Ericb5]

The fact that Cartwright and Ewing didn't work on the court is not even the worst part about that situation. The pairing by Hubie Brown, forced Ewing (the much better talent) to totally change his game. Houston did the opposite with Olajuwon and made him the Center and made (an equal prospect) Ralph Sampson, the Power Forward. Hubie Brown developed Ewing as a jump shooting PF to accommodate Cartwright. Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon coming into the league, but due to the way he was developed, it contributed to him to become a lesser pro. That is my greatest fear in the 76ers' situation. Embiid's development being compromised in an attempt to accommodate lesser players.

I'm not sure how relevant the Cartwright-Ewing example is because Cartwright was down most of Ewing's first season. Both missed 20-30 games in his second. So there was really one full season after which Ewing played center for most of the rest of his career. Teaching him to shoot wasn't a terrible thing.

I also don't agree, having watched both of their careers in college, that Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon. They were both number one picks in successive years. I personally think that Olajuwon was a better pro because he was a better player, not because Ewing was developed differently. Both took their teams to the playoffs repeatedly - 15 out of 18 seasons for Ewing, 14 out of 17 seasons for Olajuwon.

Lastly, the Twin Tower concept didn't play out in Houston because Ralph Sampson went down after their 1986 finals run, their second year together.

OK. We can agree to disagree. I watched both in college too, and even saw Ewing's McDonald's game. Ewing was more highly regarded than any prospect (Including Jordan) in the last 40 years and was thought to be the next Bill Russell. Both Houston and Portland were fined a quarter million for going onto Georgetown's campus to get Ewing to come out in '84. Both teams preferred Ewing to Olajuwon and Jordan. If you feel that Olajuwon was the better prospect, then you should applaud yourself. You were smarter than Houston's GM. You were the only person on Earth that believed that at the time. Congrats.

I agree that Ewing was at least considered the better prospect comparing them in their draft year, but Ewing never had much of an offensive game in terms of skill. Hakeem quickly passed him in that regard.

I don't think Ewing becoming a jump shooter was due to how he was developed. I think he just had a better jumper, and ended up relying on it more.

I'm sensitive to the idea of not wanting to stunt Embiid's growth due to accommodating a lesser prospect though. Embiid should be our center. Period.

Okafor will have to play half at the 4 and half at the 5(backing up Embiid and with a traded Noel), or full time at the 4. If he can't do that then I think he will be successful elsewhere playing the 5 for someone else.

Btw, there aren't a lot of examples of successful twin tower lineups in history, but I think that that is more due to the fact that there aren't a lot of examples of teams that had two center prospects at the same time good enough to be worth trying it. Hakeem and Sampson probably would have continued to work had Sampson stayed healthy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eagereyez]

It makes sense that there aren't many successful examples of "twin tower" lineups. You want to spread the talent/money around your lineup, not focus too much of it in a single area. And typically their skills overlap quite a bit, so you start to see diminishing returns at some point. Simmons/Embiid will work because their skill-sets are completely different. They compliment each other, there's no redundancy between them.

[LloydFree]

I'm not sure how relevant the Cartwright-Ewing example is because Cartwright was down most of Ewing's first season. Both missed 20-30 games in his second. So there was really one full season after which Ewing played center for most of the rest of his career. Teaching him to shoot wasn't a terrible thing.

I also don't agree, having watched both of their careers in college, that Ewing was a better prospect than Olajuwon. They were both number one picks in successive years. I personally think that Olajuwon was a better pro because he was a better player, not because Ewing was developed differently. Both took their teams to the playoffs repeatedly - 15 out of 18 seasons for Ewing, 14 out of 17 seasons for Olajuwon.

Lastly, the Twin Tower concept didn't play out in Houston because Ralph Sampson went down after their 1986 finals run, their second year together.

OK. We can agree to disagree. I watched both in college too, and even saw Ewing's McDonald's game. Ewing was more highly regarded than any prospect (Including Jordan) in the last 40 years and was thought to be the next Bill Russell. Both Houston and Portland were fined a quarter million for going onto Georgetown's campus to get Ewing to come out in '84. Both teams preferred Ewing to Olajuwon and Jordan. If you feel that Olajuwon was the better prospect, then you should applaud yourself. You were smarter than Houston's GM. You were the only person on Earth that believed that at the time. Congrats.

I think the fact that we're talking about two teams from 30 years ago tells you a lot about this situation.

Exactly. Playing two Centers on the floor at the same time in this day and age is ridiculous. Back then it was nothing to have two low post players on the floor at the same time. One on the right side of the lane and another on the left. Today there is something allowed, called "zone defense", that does not allow enough room to play two post players at the same time. Playing Embiid outside of the post (even though he has the skills to do it) risks his development as a dominant "post" player. Playing Okafor outside of the post, pretty much wastes his talents for no good reason because he's never going to be better outside of the post, than players more physically suited to play outside.

[Sixerscan]

OK. We can agree to disagree. I watched both in college too, and even saw Ewing's McDonald's game. Ewing was more highly regarded than any prospect (Including Jordan) in the last 40 years and was thought to be the next Bill Russell. Both Houston and Portland were fined a quarter million for going onto Georgetown's campus to get Ewing to come out in '84. Both teams preferred Ewing to Olajuwon and Jordan. If you feel that Olajuwon was the better prospect, then you should applaud yourself. You were smarter than Houston's GM. You were the only person on Earth that believed that at the time. Congrats.

I think the fact that we're talking about two teams from 30 years ago tells you a lot about this situation.

Yes, it does. It's truly rare that a team drafts three highly rated centers in four years. Noel probably would have been number one. Embiid would have been number one. Okafor was rated number one throughout much of the 2014-2015 season. The last and only time that may have happened was 1983 and 1984. Duncan joining Robinson is similar in some respects. But it's a rarity.

That is certainly one way to look at it!