CBS Sports "reporting": Sixers reportedly plan to trade either Nerlens Noel or Jahlil Okafor

[Sixerscan]

Can't believe no one has brought up the real twin towers, Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter!

[ET Da Gawd]

Can't believe no one has brought up the real twin towers, Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter!

LMFAOOO omg man....I used pray every night during high school that they would catch the ball cleanly & hit free throws. Those dudes were goaltend cityyyyyy...the good ol days...shoutout to Amal Mccaskill

[the_process]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/examining-sixers-dilemma-trade-noel-or-okafor-looking-at-possible-deals/

Of the deals that article proposes, only the Houston one is decent. The rest are mediocre or worse.

[Mik317]

Can't believe no one has brought up the real twin towers, Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter!

pretty sure a part of my soul just died remembering those days

[hookshot199]

Can't believe no one has brought up the real twin towers, Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter!

You know, Sixerscan, there are times such as when you commented about the Colangelos' (father and son's) email addresses and whether they read emails sent through the team's server that your insights are lacking. The reality is that the Sixers are going to have to play some sort of Twin Tower offense. It may not work. But comparing Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter to Joel Embiid and Jahlil Okafor a) in appropriate for several reasons and b) ignores the reality of what the team's assets are. I think your conclusion that the Sixers can't play two agile, potentially top-tier centers on offense is wrong. Defense is another matter.

[the_process]

Can't believe no one has brought up the real twin towers, Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter!

You know, Sixerscan, there are times such as times such as when you commented about the Colangelos' (father and son's) email addresses and whether they read emails sent through the team's server that your insights are lacking. The reality is that the Sixers are going to have to play some sort of Twin Tower offense. It may not work. But comparing Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter to Joel Embiid and Jahlil Okafor a) in appropriate for several reasons and b) ignores the reality of what the team's assets are. I think your conclusion that the Sixers can't play two agile, potentially top-tier centers on offense is wrong. Defense is another matter.

While I agree that there will be no choice for at least short periods of each game until a trade is made, thinking it might work is extremely optimistic, especially since you are admittedly ignoring the defensive side entirely.

[LloydFree]

"...the Sixers were actually 1.9 points per 100 possessions better overall with Noel on the floor. Why? Because defense and rebounding (though Noel only provided two more rebounds per 100 than Okafor) matter a lot more than casual fans like to recognize..."

"In a league that is all about defensive versatility, guys like Noel -- athletic bigs who can anchor a defense against smaller lineups -- are in short supply and high demand... guys like Okafor don't necessarily fit the preferred mold"

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/examining-sixers-dilemma-trade-noel-or-okafor-looking-at-possible-deals/

[hookshot199]

Can't believe no one has brought up the real twin towers, Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter!

You know, Sixerscan, there are times such as times such as when you commented about the Colangelos' (father and son's) email addresses and whether they read emails sent through the team's server that your insights are lacking. The reality is that the Sixers are going to have to play some sort of Twin Tower offense. It may not work. But comparing Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter to Joel Embiid and Jahlil Okafor a) in appropriate for several reasons and b) ignores the reality of what the team's assets are. I think your conclusion that the Sixers can't play two agile, potentially top-tier centers on offense is wrong. Defense is another matter.

While I agree that there will be no choice for at least short periods of each game until a trade is made, thinking it might work is extremely optimistic, especially since you are admittedly ignoring the defensive side entirely.

I wasn't ignoring the defensive side. I did in response to the Dally-Hunter comment. Earlier in the thread, I raised the issue if it matters in the three-for-two equation considering that most teams aren't the Golden State Warriors. If (as I believe and admit I might be wrong) an Embiid-Okafor tandem proves to be an unstoppable on offense, then the three-for-two equation comes into play. Rondo, Rose, many others are mediocre-to-bad three-point shooters. And on the offensive side, I just think that Okafor is getting a raw deal because the Sixers didn't have a point guard two years running. And how can anyone stop 7'2" Embiid from 5 or 6 feet?

[Stanford]

Can't believe no one has brought up the real twin towers, Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter!

I think you mean Zendon Hamilton and Amal McCaskill.

[tk76]

Bradley and Bol were briefly Sixers teammates in 1993. Missed opportunity IMO. After all, Bol was a '"stretch 5" with his 3pt bombs.

[Sixerscan]

Can't believe no one has brought up the real twin towers, Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter!

You know, Sixerscan, there are times such as when you commented about the Colangelos' (father and son's) email addresses and whether they read emails sent through the team's server that your insights are lacking. The reality is that the Sixers are going to have to play some sort of Twin Tower offense. It may not work. But comparing Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter to Joel Embiid and Jahlil Okafor a) in appropriate for several reasons and b) ignores the reality of what the team's assets are. I think your conclusion that the Sixers can't play two agile, potentially top-tier centers on offense is wrong. Defense is another matter.

It was a joke.

[hookshot199]

Can't believe no one has brought up the real twin towers, Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter!

You know, Sixerscan, there are times such as when you commented about the Colangelos' (father and son's) email addresses and whether they read emails sent through the team's server that your insights are lacking. The reality is that the Sixers are going to have to play some sort of Twin Tower offense. It may not work. But comparing Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter to Joel Embiid and Jahlil Okafor a) in appropriate for several reasons and b) ignores the reality of what the team's assets are. I think your conclusion that the Sixers can't play two agile, potentially top-tier centers on offense is wrong. Defense is another matter.

It was a joke.

Fair enough. I still think, back to the subject at hand, that there's a tendency to dismiss Okafor because of the circumstances that occurred last year, Hinkie's greatest blunder not to begin the season with a veteran point guard. Okafor has an incredible upside offensively. There's no doubt in mind my mind that he can score 20 ppg. He's not a stiff. Ditto for Embiid, perhaps not early in the season.

I just don't see how most teams can set up a defense to stop both of them. They're too big and too skilled. Who's going to front Embiid at 7'2"? He's got a 7'5" wingspan. Who's going to stop Okafor when he pivots to the basket? And unlike last year, if Simmons doesn't have the skill set yet to get them the ball, they've got two veteran guards who can. Plus, probably, Saric.

So with due respect to other cynics, we may have something unique which hasn't occurred since, not the Twin Towers in Houston, but the Twin Towers in San Antonio in 1998-1999.

[the_process]

You know, Sixerscan, there are times such as when you commented about the Colangelos' (father and son's) email addresses and whether they read emails sent through the team's server that your insights are lacking. The reality is that the Sixers are going to have to play some sort of Twin Tower offense. It may not work. But comparing Sam Dalembert and Steven Hunter to Joel Embiid and Jahlil Okafor a) in appropriate for several reasons and b) ignores the reality of what the team's assets are. I think your conclusion that the Sixers can't play two agile, potentially top-tier centers on offense is wrong. Defense is another matter.

It was a joke.

Fair enough. I still think, back to the subject at hand, there's a tendency to dismiss Okafor because of the circumstances that occurred last year, Hinkie's greatest blunder not to begin the season with a veteran point guard. Okafor has an incredible upside offensively. There's no doubt in mind my mind that he can score 20 ppg. He's not a stiff. Ditto for Embiid, perhaps not early in the season.

I just don't see how most teams can set up a defense to stop both of them. They're too big and too skilled. Who's going to front Embiid at 7'2"? He's got a 7'5" wingspan. Who's going to stop Okafor when he pivots to the basket? And unlike last year, if Simmons doesn't have the skill set yet to get them the ball, they've got two veteran guards who can. Plus, probably, Saric.

So with due respect to other cynics, we may have something unique which hasn't occurred since, not the Twin Towers in Houston, but the Twin Towers in San Antonio in 1998-1999.

Okafor gets dismissed because he's bad at defense, worse at rebounding, not that athletic, and can't get out on the break when Simmons or Saric decide to grab and go.

I don't see there being a point where Okafor scores enough to make up for his defensive shortcomings. And I don't expect him to be the 2nd coming of Marc Gasol. I understand a lot of folks see his post game and love the fact he can put the ball in the hole. Unfortunately for them and him, C's in today's game are rim protectors 1st, rebounders 2nd, and everything else is optional.

With that being said, it is important to try to figure out how to use them optimally until a deal is found, and this is a way to go for at least a portion of the game.

[Mik317]

you don't need all 5 guys out on the break. If anything Jah could be a trailer on most fast break attempt and get some easy mismatches as the opposing team big tries to get back on d to help or keep said big out of the play because he has to repect Jah's offense. He's going to need to polish up his jumper a lot but its not the end of the world like people are making it out to be in that regard. Hell just offensively, if Jah polishes up his midrange jumper (and set actual screens lol), he'd be a pretty good pick and pop guy with Simmons/Saric (both guys are also pretty damn good interior passers).

Look I have been harsh on Jah. Never wanted him in fact, but I think some people spend so much time pointing out the reasons he can't work, that they exaggerate a bit and overthink it. I think Noel's defensive potential still put him above Jah in terms of pure fit, shortterm and longterm...however, I don't think it is fair to overlook the negatives of that pairing either. Noel's **** hands is a real problem and Simmons throws some crazy ass ****. Noel's lack of functional jumper, makes him the obvious guy to play off of. Then there is the off court issues; not actual issues but his looming RFA status, his apparent unhappiness. All of these things come into play here.

And at the end of the day, in the ideal situation, neither guy is here longterm anyway. hell even in the pessimistic view that may be the case.

[LloydFree]

At this point people are just arguing past each other. Supporters of Okafor keep pointing out that "it could work" because Okafor can improve his jumper and he will have a whole year with a "real PG". While nobody who has been negative towards Okafor is a saying anything negative about his Offense.

I say, "you can't win with a Center that plays no defense". So the reply is: "But now he'll play with a real PG, and improve his jumper". Wash and repeat. It's comical.

[hookshot199]

At this point people are just arguing past each other. Supporters of Okafor keep pointing out that "it could work" because Okafor can improve his jumper and he will have a whole year with a "real PG". While nobody who has been negative towards Okafor is a saying anything negative about his Offense.

I say, "you can't win with a Center that plays no defense". So the reply is: "But now he'll play with a real PG, and improve his jumper". Wash and repeat. It's comical.

You've summed it up about right. Congrats.

[tk76]

Quick, we only have 2 weeks before training camp to conclude the Jah-Noel debate.

Actually, I think we all know what we hope to be the right answer. Joel Hans Embiid. On that we can all agree.

[76ciology]

Again.. And I'm not here to criticize Noel but just crowd sourcing from fellow Sixers citizens.

Why not switch when defending the Simmons/Noel PnR? Noel is not strong and skilled enough to score over most SFs and almost all big SFs. That PnR might only work with Ish, off a PG who can't switch. But against a SF, it might be a different case.

[CoreyGallagher]

At this point people are just arguing past each other. Supporters of Okafor keep pointing out that "it could work" because Okafor can improve his jumper and he will have a whole year with a "real PG". While nobody who has been negative towards Okafor is a saying anything negative about his Offense.

I say, "you can't win with a Center that plays no defense". So the reply is: "But now he'll play with a real PG, and improve his jumper". Wash and repeat. It's comical.

Just about everyone acknowledges that his defense has to improve, but I believe how bad his defense is perceived is exaggerated. He's a bad defender, he's not as bad as some insist, imo. His offense is usually brought up when ppp for line-ups featuring both bigs is, personal performance in those line-ups should be considered as well.

I agree that now people are just arguing past each other, however.

[ankle420breaker]

Okafor's defense is a weakness, but I agree that the degree of how bad he is defensively is often over exaggerated. I also think the "greatness" of Noel's defense is just as exaggerated. It's easy to look at his skill set and carry the fassaad that he's a future perennial DPOY, but he's got a long way to go and the fact that he regressed last year and has failed to bulk up since entering the league isn't encouraging.

In a vacuum, one guy's strength is defense and the other's is offense. I just feel that Okafor plays to his strengths better than Noel.

Factor in the following :

- Okafor has a better chance of being able to adapt at PF and play alongside Embiid. Noel can only play the 5.

- The whole "fit" argument with Okafor not being able to run with Simmons goes out the window if/when we reach the playoffs. We're not running every possession and having a big man trailing the break wouldn't hurt us. The game slows down and we'll need a post presence when playing in the half court.

- Noel's rookie deal runs out next year. If Embiid is healthy I can't see the point of throwing big $ at him to be a backup.



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