CBS Sports "reporting": Sixers reportedly plan to trade either Nerlens Noel or Jahlil Okafor

[76thBearCub]

I've said it before, and we all know it, but if Simmons and Saric can play at the same time that would be kind of a big deal. And it could make for some gorgeous ball movement.

I don't think that that is really a difficult question to answer. In fact I think that they so obviously COULD play with one another that the better question to ask is really how good will Saric be?

If Saric is really good, then he and Simmons will be great together. They would intermix on offense and defense due to switching, but I think that the combo that will definitely work would be Simmons playing the 4 or 1 on offense, and guarding the 3, and Saric playing the 3 on offense and guarding the 4.

I still think that long term that Saric is going to be coming off the bench though so Simmons and Saric would play for stretches together, but also would play quite a bit in other scenarios.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hope that you are right. They both seem like natural 4's to me.

[76thBearCub]

More on topic, how incredible would it be to have a rim protector as good as Noel or Embiid for the entire 48 minutes?

[76ciology]

More on topic, how incredible would it be to have a rim protector as good as Noel or Embiid for the entire 48 minutes?

They'll just shoot more perimeter shots where everyone seems to be trying to focus improving (even D12 is trying to improve his 3pt shooting this offseason). Also a lot of hand-off plays by the bigs that would need your rim protector to step outside for possible jumpshot by the shooter (see bballbreakdown on triangle offense).

I just think rim protection is a team effort more than just relying it to a center. And I do think having Simmons and Embiid will solidify that. Not to mention the possibility/upside of Luwawu and Jerami at the wings.

[marcush]

More on topic, how incredible would it be to have a rim protector as good as Noel or Embiid for the entire 48 minutes?

They'll just shoot more perimeter shots where everyone seems to be trying to focus improving (even D12 is trying to improve his 3pt shooting this offseason). Also a lot of hand-off plays by the bigs that would need your rim protector to step outside for possible jumpshot by the shooter (see bballbreakdown on triangle offense).

I just think rim protection is a team effort more than just relying it to a center. And I do think having Simmons and Embiid will solidify that. Not to mention the possibility/upside of Luwawu and Jerami at the wings.

D12 shooting 3s? Who would think that is going to work out well?

[76ciology]

More on topic, how incredible would it be to have a rim protector as good as Noel or Embiid for the entire 48 minutes?

They'll just shoot more perimeter shots where everyone seems to be trying to focus improving (even D12 is trying to improve his 3pt shooting this offseason). Also a lot of hand-off plays by the bigs that would need your rim protector to step outside for possible jumpshot by the shooter (see bballbreakdown on triangle offense).

I just think rim protection is a team effort more than just relying it to a center. And I do think having Simmons and Embiid will solidify that. Not to mention the possibility/upside of Luwawu and Jerami at the wings.

D12 shooting 3s? Who would think that is going to work out well?

Not saying he will be a good shooter, more pertaining to how everyone is trying to expand their range.

Anyway if you want to watch his workout..

[marcush]

Yeah, I'd be letting these clods who can't even make free throws, shoot as many 3s as they like and keep our shot blockers close to home and protect against the myriad of star penetrators in the league.

Its not rim protection against opposing centers that is important, it's the star perimeter players who are the problem and why the center position on defence is critical.

[LloydFree]

More on topic, how incredible would it be to have a rim protector as good as Noel or Embiid for the entire 48 minutes?

They'll just shoot more perimeter shots where everyone seems to be trying to focus improving (even D12 is trying to improve his 3pt shooting this offseason). Also a lot of hand-off plays by the bigs that would need your rim protector to step outside for possible jumpshot by the shooter (see bballbreakdown on triangle offense).

I just think rim protection is a team effort more than just relying it to a center. And I do think having Simmons and Embiid will solidify that. Not to mention the possibility/upside of Luwawu and Jerami at the wings.

I think you may be missing something with your position on this issue. Rim protectors have (2) positive effects on team defense.

1. By definition the rim protector causes the opposing team to make a lower percentage of high percentage 2's at the basket.
2. Having a rim protector allows your perimeter defenders to be emboldened to play tighter defense on perimeter shooters. Your perimeter defenders don't have to "sag" off shooters, to prevent drives to the basket. That helps with contested 3's.

I think you see the importance of #1, but are downplaying/missing the importance of #2.

So the two most efficient shots in the game are uncontested 3 pointers and 2's at the basket. And the rim protector effects both shots. The team's with no rim protector are weaker at defending both shots. When each team is getting 80 to 100 possessions every game, the value of the rim protector on each possession becomes much more valuable than the extra ppg that an offensive Center (who is not a rim protector) may get during the game.

Anybody that was around to watch the difference in the 76ers play, pre and post Theo Ratliff, will remember the extreme change this makes.

[76ciology]

More on topic, how incredible would it be to have a rim protector as good as Noel or Embiid for the entire 48 minutes?

They'll just shoot more perimeter shots where everyone seems to be trying to focus improving (even D12 is trying to improve his 3pt shooting this offseason). Also a lot of hand-off plays by the bigs that would need your rim protector to step outside for possible jumpshot by the shooter (see bballbreakdown on triangle offense).

I just think rim protection is a team effort more than just relying it to a center. And I do think having Simmons and Embiid will solidify that. Not to mention the possibility/upside of Luwawu and Jerami at the wings.

I think you may be missing something with your position on this issue. Rim protectors have (2) positive effects on team defense.

1. By definition the rim protector causes the opposing team to make a lower percentage of high percentage 2's at the basket.
2. Having a rim protector allows your perimeter defenders to be emboldened to play tighter defense on perimeter shooters. Your perimeter defenders don't have to "sag" off shooters, to prevent drives to the basket. That helps with contested 3's.

I think you see the importance of #1, but are downplaying/missing the importance of #2.

So the two most efficient shots in the game are uncontested 3 pointers and 2's at the basket. And the rim protector effects both shots. The team's with no rim protector are weaker at defending both shots. When each team is getting 80 to 100 possessions every game, the value of the rim protector on each possession becomes much more valuable than the extra ppg that an offensive Center (who is not a rim protector) may get during the game.

Anybody that was around to watch the difference in the 76ers play, pre and post Theo Ratliff, will remember the extreme change this makes.

I actually agree with this. Having rim protection allows you to stay closer to the perimeter shooters. And ironically, the team was at it's best limiting opponents' 3pta w/jah on the floor (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612755/onoffcourt/opponent/?sort=OPP_FG3A&dir=-1)

But what I don't agree is only having 1 guy to carry the load of rim protection. My preference is having multiple guy who can rotate to the paint and provide rim protection against perimeter slasher. Similar to how Cavs, Celtics or Spurs plays defense where their bigs can play Jah-esque rim protection with their perimeter defenders (specially the wings) also contributing. Thus the "positionless defense".

Actually if you look at the numbers, Jah was not that bad in challenging shots at the rim. The problem is he can't be a defensive anchor. That when he's defending Vuc or a big who can shoot, opponent's wing will just bulldoze his way into the paint against a helpless Canaan, Ish or Stauskas. That Jah doesn't have the athleticism of Giannis or Gobert to jump out of the gym and block the shot from free thrown line where Vuc is lethal to the paint where Derozan is at the paint bulldozing Stauskas(most vivid sequence that I can remember).

Do you remember that sequence when Boban made a fool out of Jah? That pretty much paints the picture of how tough it is to anchor our team's defense. And obviously, your defense is closer to be an elite if the team has less defensive liabilities on the floor and you have multiple guys who can rotate into the paint to challenge a perimeter slasher.

[dkj5061]

They'll just shoot more perimeter shots where everyone seems to be trying to focus improving (even D12 is trying to improve his 3pt shooting this offseason). Also a lot of hand-off plays by the bigs that would need your rim protector to step outside for possible jumpshot by the shooter (see bballbreakdown on triangle offense).

I just think rim protection is a team effort more than just relying it to a center. And I do think having Simmons and Embiid will solidify that. Not to mention the possibility/upside of Luwawu and Jerami at the wings.

I think you may be missing something with your position on this issue. Rim protectors have (2) positive effects on team defense.

1. By definition the rim protector causes the opposing team to make a lower percentage of high percentage 2's at the basket.
2. Having a rim protector allows your perimeter defenders to be emboldened to play tighter defense on perimeter shooters. Your perimeter defenders don't have to "sag" off shooters, to prevent drives to the basket. That helps with contested 3's.

I think you see the importance of #1, but are downplaying/missing the importance of #2.

So the two most efficient shots in the game are uncontested 3 pointers and 2's at the basket. And the rim protector effects both shots. The team's with no rim protector are weaker at defending both shots. When each team is getting 80 to 100 possessions every game, the value of the rim protector on each possession becomes much more valuable than the extra ppg that an offensive Center (who is not a rim protector) may get during the game.

Anybody that was around to watch the difference in the 76ers play, pre and post Theo Ratliff, will remember the extreme change this makes.

I actually agree with this. Having rim protection allows you to stay closer to the perimeter shooters. And ironically, the team was at it's best limiting opponents' 3pta w/jah on the floor (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612755/onoffcourt/opponent/?sort=OPP_FG3A&dir=-1)

But what I don't agree is only having 1 guy to carry the load of rim protection. My preference is having multiple guy who can rotate to the paint and provide rim protection against perimeter slasher. Similar to how Cavs, Celtics or Spurs plays defense where their bigs can play Jah-esque rim protection with their perimeter defenders (specially the wings) also contributing. Thus the "positionless defense".

Actually if you look at the numbers, Jah was not that bad in challenging shots at the rim. The problem is he can't be a defensive anchor. That when he's defending Vuc or a big who can shoot, opponent's wing will just bulldoze his way into the paint against a helpless Canaan, Ish or Stauskas. That Jah doesn't have the athleticism of Giannis or Gobert to jump out of the gym and block the shot from free thrown line where Vuc is lethal to the paint where Derozan is at the paint bulldozing Stauskas(most vivid sequence that I can remember).

Do you remember that sequence when Boban made a fool out of Jah? That pretty much paints the picture of how tough it is to anchor our team's defense. And obviously, your defense is closer to be an elite if the team has less defensive liabilities on the floor and you have multiple guys who can rotate into the paint to challenge a perimeter slasher.

There are different ways to look at the stats. It's easy to see that opposing players shot better when Jah was on the floor (compared to Nerlens). The lower amount of threes could also just mean that players were less deterred from going to basket when Jah was on the floor compared to when Nerlens was.

[LloydFree]

I think you may be missing something with your position on this issue. Rim protectors have (2) positive effects on team defense.

1. By definition the rim protector causes the opposing team to make a lower percentage of high percentage 2's at the basket.
2. Having a rim protector allows your perimeter defenders to be emboldened to play tighter defense on perimeter shooters. Your perimeter defenders don't have to "sag" off shooters, to prevent drives to the basket. That helps with contested 3's.

I think you see the importance of #1, but are downplaying/missing the importance of #2.

So the two most efficient shots in the game are uncontested 3 pointers and 2's at the basket. And the rim protector effects both shots. The team's with no rim protector are weaker at defending both shots. When each team is getting 80 to 100 possessions every game, the value of the rim protector on each possession becomes much more valuable than the extra ppg that an offensive Center (who is not a rim protector) may get during the game.

Anybody that was around to watch the difference in the 76ers play, pre and post Theo Ratliff, will remember the extreme change this makes.

I actually agree with this. Having rim protection allows you to stay closer to the perimeter shooters. And ironically, the team was at it's best limiting opponents' 3pta w/jah on the floor (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612755/onoffcourt/opponent/?sort=OPP_FG3A&dir=-1)

But what I don't agree is only having 1 guy to carry the load of rim protection. My preference is having multiple guy who can rotate to the paint and provide rim protection against perimeter slasher. Similar to how Cavs, Celtics or Spurs plays defense where their bigs can play Jah-esque rim protection with their perimeter defenders (specially the wings) also contributing. Thus the "positionless defense".

Actually if you look at the numbers, Jah was not that bad in challenging shots at the rim. The problem is he can't be a defensive anchor. That when he's defending Vuc or a big who can shoot, opponent's wing will just bulldoze his way into the paint against a helpless Canaan, Ish or Stauskas. That Jah doesn't have the athleticism of Giannis or Gobert to jump out of the gym and block the shot from free thrown line where Vuc is lethal to the paint where Derozan is at the paint bulldozing Stauskas(most vivid sequence that I can remember).

Do you remember that sequence when Boban made a fool out of Jah? That pretty much paints the picture of how tough it is to anchor our team's defense. And obviously, your defense is closer to be an elite if the team has less defensive liabilities on the floor and you have multiple guys who can rotate into the paint to challenge a perimeter slasher.

There are different ways to look at the stats. It's easy to see that opposing players shot better when Jah was on the floor (compared to Nerlens). The lower amount of threes could also just mean that players were less deterred from going to basket when Jah was on the floor compared to when Nerlens was.

Exactly. I'm not sure why he's not getting that.

[rzzzzz]

Brett says he wants to build the team around a great defensive center. but that center will be Embiid. and he said he's talking with Embiid about which players JoJo works well with. if the organization follows Brett's strong inclination, then the player we keep will mainly be used to back up Embiid, and probably be able to operate with him on the court. i don't see the need to speculate, as Noel and Okafor will both get their chance (once Jah's ankle heals, and Nerlens starts working out with the other guys.) it could be either one. maybe both. maybe neither. but Embiid's the guy.

[dkj5061]

Brett says he wants to build the team around a great defensive center. but that center will be Embiid. and he said he's talking with Embiid about which players JoJo works well with. if the organization follows Brett's strong inclination, then the player we keep will mainly be used to back up Embiid, and probably be able to operate with him on the court. i don't see the need to speculate, as Noel and Okafor will both get their chance (once Jah's ankle heals, and Nerlens starts working out with the other guys.) it could be either one. maybe both. maybe neither. but Embiid's the guy.

I agree, it's gonna be hilarious in 2 years when all of the Noel vs Okafor arguments amount to nothing and Embiid is just the guy here.

[76ciology]

I think you may be missing something with your position on this issue. Rim protectors have (2) positive effects on team defense.

1. By definition the rim protector causes the opposing team to make a lower percentage of high percentage 2's at the basket.
2. Having a rim protector allows your perimeter defenders to be emboldened to play tighter defense on perimeter shooters. Your perimeter defenders don't have to "sag" off shooters, to prevent drives to the basket. That helps with contested 3's.

I think you see the importance of #1, but are downplaying/missing the importance of #2.

So the two most efficient shots in the game are uncontested 3 pointers and 2's at the basket. And the rim protector effects both shots. The team's with no rim protector are weaker at defending both shots. When each team is getting 80 to 100 possessions every game, the value of the rim protector on each possession becomes much more valuable than the extra ppg that an offensive Center (who is not a rim protector) may get during the game.

Anybody that was around to watch the difference in the 76ers play, pre and post Theo Ratliff, will remember the extreme change this makes.

I actually agree with this. Having rim protection allows you to stay closer to the perimeter shooters. And ironically, the team was at it's best limiting opponents' 3pta w/jah on the floor (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612755/onoffcourt/opponent/?sort=OPP_FG3A&dir=-1)

But what I don't agree is only having 1 guy to carry the load of rim protection. My preference is having multiple guy who can rotate to the paint and provide rim protection against perimeter slasher. Similar to how Cavs, Celtics or Spurs plays defense where their bigs can play Jah-esque rim protection with their perimeter defenders (specially the wings) also contributing. Thus the "positionless defense".

Actually if you look at the numbers, Jah was not that bad in challenging shots at the rim. The problem is he can't be a defensive anchor. That when he's defending Vuc or a big who can shoot, opponent's wing will just bulldoze his way into the paint against a helpless Canaan, Ish or Stauskas. That Jah doesn't have the athleticism of Giannis or Gobert to jump out of the gym and block the shot from free thrown line where Vuc is lethal to the paint where Derozan is at the paint bulldozing Stauskas(most vivid sequence that I can remember).

Do you remember that sequence when Boban made a fool out of Jah? That pretty much paints the picture of how tough it is to anchor our team's defense. And obviously, your defense is closer to be an elite if the team has less defensive liabilities on the floor and you have multiple guys who can rotate into the paint to challenge a perimeter slasher.

There are different ways to look at the stats. It's easy to see that opposing players shot better when Jah was on the floor (compared to Nerlens). The lower amount of threes could also just mean that players were less deterred from going to basket when Jah was on the floor compared to when Nerlens was.

The stats I pointed was in reference to the statement that a team with no rim protector (which I'd assume Jah on court) is "weaker at defending both shots (3s and 2s)", whereas the stats shows how the team didn't do a poor job in giving up 3s when Jah is on court. And it's actually is at it's best in challenging 3s, if your reference is opponent's on court 3PTA.

Still.. my point is that the team is horrible on D that Jah is not good enough to anchor that kind of defensive liability and scheme. And a team with less to no defensive liabilities and multiple guys who can rotate to the rim and do a good job challenging perimeter slashers is much better than a team filled with defensive liabilities and a defensive anchor C.

Nevertheless, both concepts are valid ways to play good team D. It's just that I do prefer a team that plays collective rim protection/closeout/rotation with less defensive liabilities unlike the team we had last season.

P.S. Yup, opponents shot JUST .6% higher FG% than team average when Jah is on the floor.

[hookshot199]

This is why we might be better served waiting until the season starts. Teams are confident now, but they get a few games in, and see that the young center prospect they've been banking on look awful, and they start to lose games, I bet you'll say offers go up. And once one offer goes up, it leaves the possibility open for a bidding war.

Golden State
I'm sorry that Brown said as much as he did. Unless a trade is in the works and imminent, he's just pulled a Bryan Colangelo and devalued Noel or Okafor.

I agree with you there. Everything colangelo and brown have said make it sound like a trade is imminent, and is thus devaluing both of them. While I expect us to wait, I'm ok with taking a meh deal for Noel at this point. For a team as young and talented as we are, I think stability might be just as beneficial than getting an even swap of talent.

What is a 'meh' deal in your opinion? There are about 10 teams that could use a center. Probably a third of those have nothing to offer (Boston, Dallas, Charlotte, the Cavs).

Another third, unless they get off to bad starts, won't consider trading one of their young wings or guards.

But to make it to the next level, Portland could use a young center. So could Houston and Minnesota, even the Pelicans so that Davis can move to the four. And Golden Stats one big hole.

The two parameters for any trade involving Noel are that you don't trade him for someone who's going to be an unrestricted free agent in two years (Avery Bradley or Jrue, for instance) or for someone who can't shoot (Smart). We shouldn't trade him to the Lakers if that means giving back their pick because we might get the player we covet in next June's draft.

So it seems to me that Ricky Rubio, who has three years on his contract, could be someone we'd target, not a good shooter but a hell of a playmaker. Or (and I'm only throwing it out because a Golden State moderator has mentioned it at least twice): Klay Thompson. The Golden State poster threw out the idea of Noel plus the Lakers pick.

And if we're going to give him away, I wouldn't be averse to Houston and Sam Decker plus change.

I do think it's probably best to wait until February to pull the trigger because none of us knows (management probably does) how many minutes Embiid will be allowed to play. And we also will know by then what sort of injuries or substandard play might raise Noel's value.

But I count about 10 teams in total.

[LloydFree]

I actually agree with this. Having rim protection allows you to stay closer to the perimeter shooters. And ironically, the team was at it's best limiting opponents' 3pta w/jah on the floor (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612755/onoffcourt/opponent/?sort=OPP_FG3A&dir=-1)

But what I don't agree is only having 1 guy to carry the load of rim protection. My preference is having multiple guy who can rotate to the paint and provide rim protection against perimeter slasher. Similar to how Cavs, Celtics or Spurs plays defense where their bigs can play Jah-esque rim protection with their perimeter defenders (specially the wings) also contributing. Thus the "positionless defense".

Actually if you look at the numbers, Jah was not that bad in challenging shots at the rim. The problem is he can't be a defensive anchor. That when he's defending Vuc or a big who can shoot, opponent's wing will just bulldoze his way into the paint against a helpless Canaan, Ish or Stauskas. That Jah doesn't have the athleticism of Giannis or Gobert to jump out of the gym and block the shot from free thrown line where Vuc is lethal to the paint where Derozan is at the paint bulldozing Stauskas(most vivid sequence that I can remember).

Do you remember that sequence when Boban made a fool out of Jah? That pretty much paints the picture of how tough it is to anchor our team's defense. And obviously, your defense is closer to be an elite if the team has less defensive liabilities on the floor and you have multiple guys who can rotate into the paint to challenge a perimeter slasher.

There are different ways to look at the stats. It's easy to see that opposing players shot better when Jah was on the floor (compared to Nerlens). The lower amount of threes could also just mean that players were less deterred from going to basket when Jah was on the floor compared to when Nerlens was.

The stats I pointed was in reference to the statement that a team with no rim protector (which I'd assume Jah on court) is "weaker at defending both shots (3s and 2s)", whereas the stats shows how the team didn't do a poor job in giving up 3s when Jah is on court. And it's actually is at it's best in challenging 3s, if your reference is opponent's on court 3PTA.

Still.. my point is that the team is horrible on D that Jah is not good enough to anchor that kind of defensive liability and scheme. And a team with less to no defensive liabilities and multiple guys who can rotate to the rim and do a good job challenging perimeter slashers is much better than a team filled with defensive liabilities and a defensive anchor C.

Nevertheless, both concepts are valid ways to play good team D. It's just that I do prefer a team that plays collective rim protection/closeout/rotation with less defensive liabilities unlike the team we had last season.

P.S. Yup, opponents shot JUST .6% higher FG% than team average when Jah is on the floor.

... and yet the team went from the #12 defense in the league in 2014/15 to the #27 ranked defense in 2015/16 with the only significant difference being the addition of Jahlil Okafor.

[76ciology]

There are different ways to look at the stats. It's easy to see that opposing players shot better when Jah was on the floor (compared to Nerlens). The lower amount of threes could also just mean that players were less deterred from going to basket when Jah was on the floor compared to when Nerlens was.

The stats I pointed was in reference to the statement that a team with no rim protector (which I'd assume Jah on court) is "weaker at defending both shots (3s and 2s)", whereas the stats shows how the team didn't do a poor job in giving up 3s when Jah is on court. And it's actually is at it's best in challenging 3s, if your reference is opponent's on court 3PTA.

Still.. my point is that the team is horrible on D that Jah is not good enough to anchor that kind of defensive liability and scheme. And a team with less to no defensive liabilities and multiple guys who can rotate to the rim and do a good job challenging perimeter slashers is much better than a team filled with defensive liabilities and a defensive anchor C.

Nevertheless, both concepts are valid ways to play good team D. It's just that I do prefer a team that plays collective rim protection/closeout/rotation with less defensive liabilities unlike the team we had last season.

P.S. Yup, opponents shot JUST .6% higher FG% than team average when Jah is on the floor.

... and yet the team went from the #12 defense in the league in 2014/15 to the #27 ranked defense in 2015/16 with the only significant difference being the addition of Jahlil Okafor.

Luc, KJ and MCW had BIG contributions on D. MCW has biggest impact on D in terms of +/-, 2 of them bigger impact than Noel.

Put them with Jah and one of Noel,RoCo&Jerami and I don't think your D would be 2016 level horrible.

If Okafor is the odd man on D, team's D should have been better when he sat out the rest of the season.

[CoreyGallagher]

... and yet the team went from the #12 defense in the league in 2014/15 to the #27 ranked defense in 2015/16 with the only significant difference being the addition of Jahlil Okafor.

I mentioned this before, but Noel's points allowed per 100 possessions without Okafor dropped by 5 points compared to the season before. To put into context how much that 5 point differential is, it's a larger discrepancy than Noel was to Okafor this season. So, obviously something else changed.

Luc Mbah a Moute was a solid veteran wing defender that started 61 games for us, MCW was a solid defender for half the season and KJ for more than that, Thomas Robinson provided some defense and much needed rebounding late in the season. Those 4 players were in our top 7 of DBPM last year.

[LloydFree]

... and yet the team went from the #12 defense in the league in 2014/15 to the #27 ranked defense in 2015/16 with the only significant difference being the addition of Jahlil Okafor.

I mentioned this before, but Noel's points allowed per 100 possessions without Okafor dropped by 5 points compared to the season before. To put into context how much that 5 point differential is, it's a larger discrepancy than Noel was to Okafor this season. So, obviously something else changed.

Luc Mbah a Moute was a solid veteran wing defender that started a 61 games for us, MCW was a solid defender for half a season and KJ for more than that, Thomas Robinson provided some defense and much needed rebounding later in the season. Those 4 players were in our top 7 of DBPM last year.

Believe what you want. I'm tired of debating the obvious. The coach just put an end to the argument, with his comments yesterday because now Okafor won't be the starting Center or Power Forward and it's no longer a topic.

[CoreyGallagher]

Believe what you want. I'm tired of debating the obvious. The coach just put an end to the argument, with his comments yesterday because now Okafor won't be the starting Center or Power Forward and it's no longer a topic.

Ok...

So who starts at the 5. Jahlil or Nerlens?

If all three make it to the regular season... whoever is being showcased for trade.

I'm still fine with trading either - I feel like Noel is preferential if Embiid were to get injured, but I prefer Okafor if Embiid is able to stay healthy and is our 'crown jewel'. I advocate for Okafor more here because fans pile on him and seem to give Noel a free pass, although I still do for Noel as well.

[Ericb5]

I actually agree with this. Having rim protection allows you to stay closer to the perimeter shooters. And ironically, the team was at it's best limiting opponents' 3pta w/jah on the floor (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612755/onoffcourt/opponent/?sort=OPP_FG3A&dir=-1)

But what I don't agree is only having 1 guy to carry the load of rim protection. My preference is having multiple guy who can rotate to the paint and provide rim protection against perimeter slasher. Similar to how Cavs, Celtics or Spurs plays defense where their bigs can play Jah-esque rim protection with their perimeter defenders (specially the wings) also contributing. Thus the "positionless defense".

Actually if you look at the numbers, Jah was not that bad in challenging shots at the rim. The problem is he can't be a defensive anchor. That when he's defending Vuc or a big who can shoot, opponent's wing will just bulldoze his way into the paint against a helpless Canaan, Ish or Stauskas. That Jah doesn't have the athleticism of Giannis or Gobert to jump out of the gym and block the shot from free thrown line where Vuc is lethal to the paint where Derozan is at the paint bulldozing Stauskas(most vivid sequence that I can remember).

Do you remember that sequence when Boban made a fool out of Jah? That pretty much paints the picture of how tough it is to anchor our team's defense. And obviously, your defense is closer to be an elite if the team has less defensive liabilities on the floor and you have multiple guys who can rotate into the paint to challenge a perimeter slasher.

There are different ways to look at the stats. It's easy to see that opposing players shot better when Jah was on the floor (compared to Nerlens). The lower amount of threes could also just mean that players were less deterred from going to basket when Jah was on the floor compared to when Nerlens was.

Exactly. I'm not sure why he's not getting that.

I'm probably closer to 76ciology on this than you guys, but I would just argue that the team based stats with Okafor last year should be discounted.

He isn't as bad a defender as those stats show, but he is also clearly not a rim protector. I would never try to argue that Okafor can approximate the defensive production as Embiid or Noel.

However, I STILL feel that he has more talent, and more value(to our program. Not necessarily current trade value) intrinsically than Noel. Trading Okafor would be SO convenient for us, and would solve more problems than trading Noel.

My philosophy is that we don't NEED either one of them. There is just more downside to trading Okafor.


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