OT: The next President of the United States: ★★★ Donald Trump ★★★

[Red Larrivee]

This is probably the worst election in some time, but Hillary is by far the lesser evil here.

[johnnyvann840]

Hilary was well composed but I dont believe anything she is saying. She is increasing taxes for the upper class? Soros is going to allow that?

You should believe.

1) Yes, Hillary Clinton plans on increasing taxes for the wealthy. She has already presented her plan for a higher estate tax. This isn't exactly a rare thing for Democratic Presidents. Bill Clinton raised top marginal income tax rates, as did Barack Obama. In fact, it would be unusual if Hillary Clinton did not increase taxes on the upper class.

2) George Soros is *for* higher tax rates on the wealthy.

The Estate Tax is criminal and basically just theft. So, you work hard your whole life and pay your taxes... and then you die and they tax that same money/property again before your kids get it. Flat out stealing.

[League Circles]

Hilary was well composed but I dont believe anything she is saying. She is increasing taxes for the upper class? Soros is going to allow that?

You should believe.

1) Yes, Hillary Clinton plans on increasing taxes for the wealthy. She has already presented her plan for a higher estate tax. This isn't exactly a rare thing for Democratic Presidents. Bill Clinton raised top marginal income tax rates, as did Barack Obama. In fact, it would be unusual if Hillary Clinton did not increase taxes on the upper class.

2) George Soros is *for* higher tax rates on the wealthy.

The Estate Tax is criminal and basically just theft. So, you work hard your whole life and pay your taxes... and then you die and they tax that same money again before your kids get it. Flat out stealing.

Besides you being simply correct, we should be designing all taxes with the outcomes in consideration.

If you tax people more when they die, they will have incentive to save less and consume more during their lives.

That is a bad thing IMO.

[johnnyvann840]

You should believe.

1) Yes, Hillary Clinton plans on increasing taxes for the wealthy. She has already presented her plan for a higher estate tax. This isn't exactly a rare thing for Democratic Presidents. Bill Clinton raised top marginal income tax rates, as did Barack Obama. In fact, it would be unusual if Hillary Clinton did not increase taxes on the upper class.

2) George Soros is *for* higher tax rates on the wealthy.

The Estate Tax is criminal and basically just theft. So, you work hard your whole life and pay your taxes... and then you die and they tax that same money again before your kids get it. Flat out stealing.

Besides you being simply correct, we should be designing all taxes with the outcomes in consideration.

If you tax people more when they die, they will have incentive to save less and consume more during their lives.

That is a bad thing IMO.

Well, I'm thinking more in the sense of what it does to our farmers and ranchers and so many small businesses. It's not just the richest people. That tax should be repealed altogether. It hurts our country it doesn't help it one bit.

[TheSuzerain]

The Estate Tax is criminal and basically just theft. So, you work hard your whole life and pay your taxes... and then you die and they tax that same money again before your kids get it. Flat out stealing.

Besides you being simply correct, we should be designing all taxes with the outcomes in consideration.

If you tax people more when they die, they will have incentive to save less and consume more during their lives.

That is a bad thing IMO.

Well, I'm thinking more in the sense of what it does to our farmers and ranchers and so many small businesses. It's not just the richest people. That tax should be repealed altogether. It hurts our country it doesn't help it one bit.

You've been duped into thinking the estate tax actually hits farmers and small business owners. That would be an exceedingly rare occurrence as the tax is designed.

I won't say a family owned farm has never been effected, but it happens far, far less than you seem to think. And if the family farm you inherited leads to estate tax, it's a safe bet you have some acreage to spare.

[TheSuzerain]

You should believe.

1) Yes, Hillary Clinton plans on increasing taxes for the wealthy. She has already presented her plan for a higher estate tax. This isn't exactly a rare thing for Democratic Presidents. Bill Clinton raised top marginal income tax rates, as did Barack Obama. In fact, it would be unusual if Hillary Clinton did not increase taxes on the upper class.

2) George Soros is *for* higher tax rates on the wealthy.

The Estate Tax is criminal and basically just theft. So, you work hard your whole life and pay your taxes... and then you die and they tax that same money again before your kids get it. Flat out stealing.

Besides you being simply correct, we should be designing all taxes with the outcomes in consideration.

If you tax people more when they die, they will have incentive to save less and consume more during their lives.

That is a bad thing IMO.

From an economic perspective, what you described (consuming more) is quite established as a good thing.

[TheStig]

Hilary was well composed but I dont believe anything she is saying. She is increasing taxes for the upper class? Soros is going to allow that?

You should believe.

1) Yes, Hillary Clinton plans on increasing taxes for the wealthy. She has already presented her plan for a higher estate tax. This isn't exactly a rare thing for Democratic Presidents. Bill Clinton raised top marginal income tax rates, as did Barack Obama. In fact, it would be unusual if Hillary Clinton did not increase taxes on the upper class.

2) George Soros is *for* higher tax rates on the wealthy.

The Estate Tax is criminal and basically just theft. So, you work hard your whole life and pay your taxes... and then you die and they tax that same money/property again before your kids get it. Flat out stealing.

The Estate tax has over a 5 million dollar exclusion. Hardly anyone outside of the top 1% is included in that. And like Trump, I'm sure they have their loop holes.

[League Circles]

The Estate Tax is criminal and basically just theft. So, you work hard your whole life and pay your taxes... and then you die and they tax that same money again before your kids get it. Flat out stealing.

Besides you being simply correct, we should be designing all taxes with the outcomes in consideration.

If you tax people more when they die, they will have incentive to save less and consume more during their lives.

That is a bad thing IMO.

From an economic perspective, what you described (consuming more) is quite established as a good thing.

You've been brainwashed into believing that nonsense. (You like being written to like that?)

When you consume something, you destroy it's value. It is the opposite of what is good economically.

Someone owes you an explanation.

If you'd like to elaborate on why the destruction of value is good, I'm all ears. A strong economy is based on value, on Capitol, on Surplus. Not on transactional activity, which is the only increase resulting from overconsumption.

[TheSuzerain]

Besides you being simply correct, we should be designing all taxes with the outcomes in consideration.

If you tax people more when they die, they will have incentive to save less and consume more during their lives.

That is a bad thing IMO.

From an economic perspective, what you described (consuming more) is quite established as a good thing.

You've been brainwashed into believing that nonsense. (You like being written to like that?)

When you consume something, you destroy it's value. It is the opposite of what is good economically.

Someone owes you an explanation.

If you'd like to elaborate on why the destruction of value is good, I'm all ears. A strong economy is based on value, on Capitol, on Surplus. Not on transactional activity, which is the only increase resulting from overconsumption.

This is so hilariously wrong to the point that I'm not even going to engage.

[League Circles]

From an economic perspective, what you described (consuming more) is quite established as a good thing.

You've been brainwashed into believing that nonsense. (You like being written to like that?)

When you consume something, you destroy it's value. It is the opposite of what is good economically.

Someone owes you an explanation.

If you'd like to elaborate on why the destruction of value is good, I'm all ears. A strong economy is based on value, on Capitol, on Surplus. Not on transactional activity, which is the only increase resulting from overconsumption.

This is so hilariously wrong to the point that I'm not even going to engage.

Writing that you're not going to engage, while blanketing my claim as "hilariously wrong", is engaging.

Did someone tell you that GDP or other bull data is a good way to measure an economy?

If everyone in society decided they wanted to give handies for a living, and everyone was just giving handies left and right for high dollars, we'd have a strong gdp and some politicians would claim that is a sign of a strong economy. But in reality we would be in severe poverty in real terms.

It's no surprise our political system is as screwed up as it is when people honestly believe that consumption is better than surplus for a strong economy.

[johnnyvann840]

Besides you being simply correct, we should be designing all taxes with the outcomes in consideration.

If you tax people more when they die, they will have incentive to save less and consume more during their lives.

That is a bad thing IMO.

Well, I'm thinking more in the sense of what it does to our farmers and ranchers and so many small businesses. It's not just the richest people. That tax should be repealed altogether. It hurts our country it doesn't help it one bit.

You've been duped into thinking the estate tax actually hits farmers and small business owners. That would be an exceedingly rare occurrence as the tax is designed.

I won't say a family owned farm has never been effected, but it happens far, far less than you seem to think. And if the family farm you inherited leads to estate tax, it's a safe bet you have some acreage to spare.

I personally know a family who was affected seriously by it. Your argument that it is only a small percentage of farmers may be true.. but the family farm/ranch in America has been a dying entity for a long time now.

Also, those numbers are from several years ago.... right after real estate values crashed. Well, acreage is worth a lot more now than it was 4 or 5 years ago and those exemptions have not kept up..

Regardless, the tax is CRIMINAL. It's extortion and it is wrong. PERIOD. In the same sense that you are saying it's a small percentage of family farms and only ones "with acreage to spare" (which is so obtuse). It's also insignificant enough that if repealed..... nobody would feel it but it would allow more people to pass their business or their farm or ranch to their kids without being stolen from.

[TheSuzerain]

It seems like you are making a moral argument, and I just don't see how an Estate Tax is any more objectionable than an income tax.

If we are looking for a place to cut taxes, there are just countless places to cut before I'd arrive at the Estate Tax. Those affected by the estate tax are certainly not those in need of a tax break.

[DanTown8587]

The Estate Tax is why the Bill and Melinda Gates fund exists. If the Estate tax DIDN'T exist, there would be no incentive for anyone with capital or value to ever use and develop that asset. I'm not going to argue that people who inherit farms and other "valuable" assets that are not really part of their daily life are of course hurt by it but I think there's ways to work around that rather than getting rid of the estate tax.

Again, it would take inheriting over $5 million dollars worth of value for the estate tax to even apply to you.

[League Circles]

It seems like you are making a moral argument, and I just don't see how an Estate Tax is any more objectionable than an income tax.

If we are looking for a place to cut taxes, there are just countless places to cut before I'd arrive at the Estate Tax. Those affected by the estate tax are certainly not those in need of a tax break.

I do agree with you that the estate tax is hardly the most egregious tax situation, and I agree it shouldn't be "the place to start".

I quoted your post just to highlight the different perspectives people have with political issues. I, for example, tend to promote a lot of policies that I only want to see if x, y, and z also happen in public policy. But I won't always spell all that out because it's tedious.

Others, like perhaps you, focus more on incremental change, considering how policy changes would impact society if most or all else were kept the same.

Not saying either perspective is wrong, just noting that the difference can be grounds for a lot of unnecessary argument in general. So as a society, I think we need to do a better job of clarifying conditions under which we advocate what we advocate. Sometimes people agree more than they think, and are just speaking of different circumstances.

[waffle]

The Estate Tax is criminal and basically just theft. So, you work hard your whole life and pay your taxes... and then you die and they tax that same money again before your kids get it. Flat out stealing.

Besides you being simply correct, we should be designing all taxes with the outcomes in consideration.

If you tax people more when they die, they will have incentive to save less and consume more during their lives.

That is a bad thing IMO.

Well, I'm thinking more in the sense of what it does to our farmers and ranchers and so many small businesses. It's not just the richest people. That tax should be repealed altogether. It hurts our country it doesn't help it one bit.

that's been shown to be false. It's a Republican talking point but is....wait for it.... a lie. My dad died. I inherited his estate. I think I didn't have to pay taxes on the first 5 million? Hum...

I'd have gladly paid taxes on it. It's part of being a member of a democratic system. Taxes, gotta have em. Should the rich pay their fair share (which they sure as heck aren't)? HECK YEAH

[League Circles]

that's been shown to be false. It's a Republican talking point but is....wait for it.... a lie. My dad died. I inherited his estate. I think I didn't have to pay taxes on the first 5 million? Hum...

I'd have gladly paid taxes on it. It's part of being a member of a democratic system. Taxes, gotta have em. Should the rich pay their fair share (which they sure as heck aren't)? HECK YEAH

The notion that there is even such a thing as "their fair share" is silly IMO. Life isn't fair. What if someone objects to everything about the US government? Is it fair that they are forced by threat of imprisonment to pay lots of taxes?

[ChiCityHoops34]

Trump is saving his best stuff you'd have to think right? The guy is an entertainer. Barely hit e-mails, no talk of Benghazi, no talk of Clinton Foundation, could have hit her on her and Bills treatment of women when she went at him on that topic but said he refrained because Chelsea was in the room and didn't find it appropriate. I promise he will find it appropriate after being told how easy he took it on her last night.

No idea what to think of either as president just usually vote republican and truly despise Hillary as much as any person in my lifespan in politics. I hardly agree with any of Bernie's positions, but he seems like a good guy, and it was painful to see what happened to him at the DNC.

It'll be interesting to see what Assange is still sitting on, could affect the election more than any of the remaining debates.

[McBulls]

NBA team (Hillary) vs D-League team (Trump).
Final score 167-52.
1Q : 40-30
2Q: 50-10
3Q: 45-8
4Q: 42-4

Donald claims the ref made bad calls and the microphone was sabotaged.
Hillary seemed to not have much interest in running up the score in the first match.

[SHO'NUFF]

To me Donald won the 1st half and Hillary won the 2nd. I also believe that Trump is saving his best for last. There was talk about Hillary wearing an ear piece....if true not sure if that's allowed...or at least i wouldn't want to vote for someone being told what to say or do. Could be false though.

[waffle]

that's been shown to be false. It's a Republican talking point but is....wait for it.... a lie. My dad died. I inherited his estate. I think I didn't have to pay taxes on the first 5 million? Hum...

I'd have gladly paid taxes on it. It's part of being a member of a democratic system. Taxes, gotta have em. Should the rich pay their fair share (which they sure as heck aren't)? HECK YEAH

The notion that there is even such a thing as "their fair share" is silly IMO. Life isn't fair. What if someone objects to everything about the US government? Is it fair that they are forced by threat of imprisonment to pay lots of taxes?

um, I don't think it's that hard a concept.

Someone who makes MORE than an average middle class person should not pay less tax than they do. The ability to shelter income and wealth is more available to the rich, both because they are rich and because they are better at it.

The real % that the "rich" pay in taxes has trended down for the last 20 years or so.

Note that many "rich" folks agree.