2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - The Preseason Strikes Back

[tiderulz]

I still don't get why people come on here and fight for Harris as a great offensive player.

He was consistent and that is great to have off the bench but where was that second or third gear that make the greats great? Guys like Durant, Curry and TMac do it nightly. Harris didn't have to be that but he never did it. He never looked unguardable. He just took advantage of the opportunity and made simple plays. That doesn't cut it when we move beyond bottom feeder territory and want to compete in the playoffs.

I don't know what we have in AG or Mario yet but both have had jaw dropping moments that have you thinking this kid could become something great.

I NEVER for one single second saw that in Harris.

I applaud him for not crying in the media, but this move screamed of a sit down conversation with Henny where he just wasn't excited about a 6th man role and Henny not excited about starting him over AG or Mario. This was a mutual agreement to part ways. We walked away clean of a big contract and he gets his chance to start with a solid club. He will speak highly of Henny in locker rooms and that will help us in free agency.

The story here is bigger than just not getting a 2nd pick tossed in.

none of our players are gonna be scorers like tmac, durantir curry. Nobody said that. But harris was one of our better offensive players lasr year. And thats clear.

No ones questioning that Harris had to be moved. But why we only got That in return is the question.
When you have the president of the basketball operations of the team he has been traded to even saying that they were surprised that they didnt even have to trade a 1st rounder for Harris. Go figure.

So few people here understand the concept of "the big picture".

so few people can understand the big picture, while also seeing that it is made up of a multitude of smaller steps.

[MagicFan101]

none of our players are gonna be scorers like tmac, durantir curry. Nobody said that. But harris was one of our better offensive players lasr year. And thats clear.

No ones questioning that Harris had to be moved. But why we only got That in return is the question.
When you have the president of the basketball operations of the team he has been traded to even saying that they were surprised that they didnt even have to trade a 1st rounder for Harris. Go figure.

So few people here understand the concept of "the big picture".

People understand the big picture...

A lot of people didn't mind if Harris was moved... Its just they wanted some sort of return... And that return netted not even a mid-to-late first round pick.

Resigning him was essentially pointless in retrospect.

Which is a better way to describe the goal of a trade:

1) To gain a mid-late first round pick.
2) To make your team better.

If you only look at the Harris trade in terms of pieces involved you are NOT looking at the big picture. The team we have today is a direct result of many deals with the Dipo and Harris trades along with the Vogel hire at the front. You have to mix them together and look at total gains versus losses.

[tiderulz]

So few people here understand the concept of "the big picture".

People understand the big picture...

A lot of people didn't mind if Harris was moved... Its just they wanted some sort of return... And that return netted not even a mid-to-late first round pick.

Resigning him was essentially pointless in retrospect.

Which is a better way to describe the goal of a trade:

1) To gain a mid-late first round pick.
2) To make your team better.

If you only look at the Harris trade in terms of pieces involved you are NOT looking at the big picture. The team we have today is a direct result of many deals with the Dipo and Harris trades along with the Vogel hire at the front. You have to mix them together and look at total gains versus losses.

could make the same trade with a pick involved. Gets value, apparently SVG was ready to pay that too.

[PrimeThyme]

Yes. But people were saying Harris was dealt for cap space. And they basically have almost the same effect on our cap space this year.

I guess we fans can thus conclude that Harris was "traded" for Bismack Biyombo. Is that a good "trade." Hmm.


..

And honestly for this team and our playoff aspirations along with the development of our young guys I'll take Biyombo. I think Biyombo gives this team an identity and a defensive presence along with much needed depth. Even though I would have hoped for more in return, Tobias wouldn't make this team any better than it is now and we are better off in the long run without him.

[Orlwillbeback]

Harris always had a positive Can do attitude and didn't guve a crap about his critics. He even talked **** to Lebron James and showed him he didn't give a crap about his reputation or any of that nonsense. The guy was not that talented, true but you gotta respect his never say die mentality.

[thelead]

Today is the first preseason game and we're still talking about Harris? Why?

[Orlwillbeback]

Yes. But people were saying Harris was dealt for cap space. And they basically have almost the same effect on our cap space this year.

I guess we fans can thus conclude that Harris was "traded" for Bismack Biyombo. Is that a good "trade." Hmm.


..

And honestly for this team and our playoff aspirations along with the development of our young guys I'll take Biyombo. I think Biyombo gives this team an identity and a defensive presence along with much needed depth. Even though I would have hoped for more in return, Tobias wouldn't make this team any better than it is now and we are better off in the long run without him.

Oh sure, we certainly are better off in the long run now that we can invest many years of development into Payton, Gordon and Hezonja and try to turn them into players theyre not, just like Oladipo, Harris and Harkless before them.

[MagicFan101]

Today is the first preseason game and we're still talking about Harris? Why?

The tank process has been hard on many here. They have lost their ability this think rationally about basketball and instead are emotionally tied to even to most average of talents.

It will take time, but as we move into more successful years people will recover from this disease and learn to appreciate true talent while not accepting any less.

[Orlwillbeback]

Today is the first preseason game and we're still talking about Harris? Why?

The tank process has been hard on many here. They have lost their ability this think rationally about basketball and instead are emotionally tied to even to most average of talents.

It will take time, but as we move into more successful years people will recover from this disease and learn to appreciate true talent while not accepting any less.

[PrimeThyme]

I guess we fans can thus conclude that Harris was "traded" for Bismack Biyombo. Is that a good "trade." Hmm.


..

And honestly for this team and our playoff aspirations along with the development of our young guys I'll take Biyombo. I think Biyombo gives this team an identity and a defensive presence along with much needed depth. Even though I would have hoped for more in return, Tobias wouldn't make this team any better than it is now and we are better off in the long run without him.

Oh sure, we certainly are better off in the long run now that we can invest many years of development into Payton, Gordon and Hezonja and try to turn them into players theyre not, just like Oladipo, Harris and Harkless before them.

But strictly from a talent perspective and Gordon's, Payton's, and Hezonjas potential ceilings I would much rather be investing my time into them than a Tobias Harris who's ceiling has already capped and isn't that talented to begin with.

[Orlwillbeback]

I am a bit disillusioned when it comes to Hezonja's potential. The guy was almost 3 full years older than the other wings we could have taken in that draft like Winslow and Stanley Johnson and still statistically wasn't any better. He was billed as being more NBA ready than the other wings due to his professional playing experience and being older but the guy got his pocket picked more than I've ever seen for a rookie wing.

In general I thought he looked soft compared to the other guys.

[OrlandoNed]

I am a bit disillusioned when it comes to Hezonja's potential. The guy was almost 3 full years older than the other wings we could have taken in that draft like Winslow and Stanley Johnson and still statistically wasn't any better. He was billed as being more NBA ready than the other wings due to his professional playing experience and being older but the guy got his pocket picked more than I've ever seen for a rookie wing.

In general I thought he looked soft compared to the other guys.

Rather have Mario than those 2 bricklayers. We have enough of those already.

[Orlwillbeback]

I am a bit disillusioned when it comes to Hezonja's potential. The guy was almost 3 full years older than the other wings we could have taken in that draft like Winslow and Stanley Johnson and still statistically wasn't any better. He was billed as being more NBA ready than the other wings due to his professional playing experience and being older but the guy got his pocket picked more than I've ever seen for a rookie wing.

In general I thought he looked soft compared to the other guys.

Rather have Mario than those 2 bricklayers. We have enough of those already.

Well that's a good point. Still, we were all led on to believe that hecwas the best player overall and the superior talent, Not just the guy who provides a needed skill.

[Def Swami]

Still disagree with trading Tobias Harris at the deadline, but it's lunacy to assert that Harris is a better player than Serge Ibaka. It's even more short-sighted to not acknowledge that it's more advantageous to give those minutes to Gordon, who has a much higher upside.

[PennytoShaq]

offensively, yes.

The game is a lot more than PPG. I hope you would understand that. Just because Harris can put in 16 PPG does not make him better. Most people project Gordon doing that at least and Ibaka gives you 15 while being a far superior defender. Both of these guys are far better two way players than Harris and that is what teams need in todays switch heavy NBA.

yes i understand, and understanding that, Harris is still a better offensively player than Gordon is right now. And Ibaka is a great rim protector, but by all accounts, not a great defender, so i wouldnt call him a "far superior defender" And Harris was one of the teams best defenders last year until he got traded. gave up points on the offensive end working his tail off on defense. And Gordon isnt a 2-way player, he is still pretty horrid on offense.

Again, Harris is not a better PLAYER than Gordon. He is just better offensively, but that could change by this season. Harris not a two way player. Gordon projects to be one. If you do not believe in Gordon's potential on offense, you will probably not want to follow this team.

Ibaka is indeed a far superior defender than Harris. I'm not even sure how that is a debate. Harris can not defend the 3 or the 4 better than Ibaka. Ibaka is a better player in general than Harris and I doubt you will find many people who would argue that.

[PennytoShaq]

I guess we fans can thus conclude that Harris was "traded" for Bismack Biyombo. Is that a good "trade." Hmm.


..

And honestly for this team and our playoff aspirations along with the development of our young guys I'll take Biyombo. I think Biyombo gives this team an identity and a defensive presence along with much needed depth. Even though I would have hoped for more in return, Tobias wouldn't make this team any better than it is now and we are better off in the long run without him.

Oh sure, we certainly are better off in the long run now that we can invest many years of development into Payton, Gordon and Hezonja and try to turn them into players theyre not, just like Oladipo, Harris and Harkless before them.

Man you make some really negative posts but the fact that you don't understand how a rebuild works after going through one for 4 years is pretty amazing.

[PennytoShaq]

Still disagree with trading Tobias Harris at the deadline, but it's lunacy to assert that Harris is a better player than Serge Ibaka. It's even more short-sighted to not acknowledge that it's more advantageous to give those minutes to Gordon, who has a much higher upside.

Exactly. That is all I am saying.

[MagicFan101]

The game is a lot more than PPG. I hope you would understand that. Just because Harris can put in 16 PPG does not make him better. Most people project Gordon doing that at least and Ibaka gives you 15 while being a far superior defender. Both of these guys are far better two way players than Harris and that is what teams need in todays switch heavy NBA.

yes i understand, and understanding that, Harris is still a better offensively player than Gordon is right now. And Ibaka is a great rim protector, but by all accounts, not a great defender, so i wouldnt call him a "far superior defender" And Harris was one of the teams best defenders last year until he got traded. gave up points on the offensive end working his tail off on defense. And Gordon isnt a 2-way player, he is still pretty horrid on offense.

Again, Harris is not a better PLAYER than Gordon. He is just better offensively, but that could change by this season. Harris not a two way player. Gordon projects to be one. If you do not believe in Gordon's potential on offense, you will probably not want to follow this team.

Ibaka is indeed a far superior defender than Harris. I'm not even sure how that is a debate. Harris can not defend the 3 or the 4 better than Ibaka. Ibaka is a better player in general than Harris and I doubt you will find many people who would argue that.

I still say it is foolish to claim Harris is better offensively than AG or Mario. Harris is more refined and more consistent than them right now but each show a gear he will never possess. If either of them put it together consistently we will all laugh at ever making such rediculous comparisons.

[PennytoShaq]

yes i understand, and understanding that, Harris is still a better offensively player than Gordon is right now. And Ibaka is a great rim protector, but by all accounts, not a great defender, so i wouldnt call him a "far superior defender" And Harris was one of the teams best defenders last year until he got traded. gave up points on the offensive end working his tail off on defense. And Gordon isnt a 2-way player, he is still pretty horrid on offense.

Again, Harris is not a better PLAYER than Gordon. He is just better offensively, but that could change by this season. Harris not a two way player. Gordon projects to be one. If you do not believe in Gordon's potential on offense, you will probably not want to follow this team.

Ibaka is indeed a far superior defender than Harris. I'm not even sure how that is a debate. Harris can not defend the 3 or the 4 better than Ibaka. Ibaka is a better player in general than Harris and I doubt you will find many people who would argue that.

I still say it is foolish to claim Harris is better offensively than AG or Mario. Harris is more refined and more consistent than them right now but each show a gear he will never possess. If either of them put it together consistently we will all laugh at ever making such rediculous comparisons.

I agree. I am just trying to humor people without being rude. It's insane to asses that Harris is better than Gordon, but that is where we are, because people want to complain about things they do not understand (future cap space being one).

[Orlwillbeback]

Still disagree with trading Tobias Harris at the deadline, but it's lunacy to assert that Harris is a better player than Serge Ibaka. It's even more short-sighted to not acknowledge that it's more advantageous to give those minutes to Gordon, who has a much higher upside.

Exactly. That is all I am saying.

You are a delusional **** who has no idea how the NBA works. A team should avoid a rebuild at any cost because it hurts the team's image and makes less revenue. The team also risks the possibility of becoming a free rider to the revenue sharing for the other teams in the league if it cannot support itself, which concerns Silver and the governing members.

I have been to a number of games the last few years and have heard the same messianic message from Hennigan filled with fluff and buzzwords like a "Slow, Organic process of growth within", only to ship off the young players he sold us on for veterans with expiring contracts.

We have all been duped and the fact that we are in year 5 of the rebuild and still talking about "potential" is proof of that.