Drummomd

[mattao313]

If he had shot 60% FT and got 2 more FGAs per game at his 52% FG, he would've avg 20 & 15 last year.

FGAs will probably be the biggest determiner of him getting Shaq-like numbers. Hard to avg 27-30 ppg on only 13 FGAs, even if you're a great FT shooter. By comparison, Shaq only shot 49% FT at age 23, but was getting 19-20 FGAs per game. That plus a high FG% contributed more to his scoring than his FTs.

Overall he avg 27 & 11 that year. So the question is if we gave Dre 19 FGAs, could he match Shaq's 57% FG and 49% FT?

I don't think that's that unrealistic. Stan giving him 19 FGAs is probably more unrealistic than him actually being able to do it.

So with said, I'd say 22 & 15 is probably Dre's peak in this system. Which is about what Shaq scored under Stan (23 & 10 on 15 FGAs and 46% FT).

With more FGA and USG%% you think Andre's FG% would increase?

[Todd3]

If he had shot 60% FT and got 2 more FGAs per game at his 52% FG, he would've avg 20 & 15 last year.

FGAs will probably be the biggest determiner of him getting Shaq-like numbers. Hard to avg 27-30 ppg on only 13 FGAs, even if you're a great FT shooter. By comparison, Shaq only shot 49% FT at age 23, but was getting 19-20 FGAs per game. That plus a high FG% contributed more to his scoring than his FTs.

Overall he avg 27 & 11 that year. So the question is if we gave Dre 19 FGAs, could he match Shaq's 57% FG and 49% FT?

I don't think that's that unrealistic. Stan giving him 19 FGAs is probably more unrealistic than him actually being able to do it.

So with said, I'd say 22 & 15 is probably Dre's peak in this system. Which is about what Shaq scored under Stan (23 & 10 on 15 FGAs and 46% FT).

With more FGA and USG%% you think Andre's FG% would increase?

I think it's definitely possible as he develops better positioning down low pre-post, taking more at the rim and less from 7-8 ft. All those long fadeaway hook shots are why his FG% went from 60% to low 50's, more so than the volume. Most of his shots were right at the rim his first 2 yrs. If he makes the effort to get deep position every time on post-ups + the usual high % lobs/putbacks, he should be able to shoot 56-57% on high volume.

[mattao313]

If he had shot 60% FT and got 2 more FGAs per game at his 52% FG, he would've avg 20 & 15 last year.

FGAs will probably be the biggest determiner of him getting Shaq-like numbers. Hard to avg 27-30 ppg on only 13 FGAs, even if you're a great FT shooter. By comparison, Shaq only shot 49% FT at age 23, but was getting 19-20 FGAs per game. That plus a high FG% contributed more to his scoring than his FTs.

Overall he avg 27 & 11 that year. So the question is if we gave Dre 19 FGAs, could he match Shaq's 57% FG and 49% FT?

I don't think that's that unrealistic. Stan giving him 19 FGAs is probably more unrealistic than him actually being able to do it.

So with said, I'd say 22 & 15 is probably Dre's peak in this system. Which is about what Shaq scored under Stan (23 & 10 on 15 FGAs and 46% FT).

With more FGA and USG%% you think Andre's FG% would increase?

I think it's definitely possible as he develops better positioning down low pre-post, taking more at the rim and less from 7-8 ft. All those long fadeaway hook shots are why his FG% went from 60% to low 50's, more so than the volume. Most of his shots were right at the rim his first 2 yrs. If he makes the effort to get deep position every time on post-ups + the usual high % lobs/putbacks, he should be able to shoot 56-57% on high volume.

Not really, his FG% dropped cause his offense consisted of only dunks and put backs. His first 2 seasons he had a USG% of 17.2 and 16.7. These last two season his USG% increase to 22 and 24.1 because he was getting more post ups call for him. Even in Andre's first years his shooting numbers aren't better and Andre's post game isn't close to Shaq's.

[Todd3]

With more FGA and USG%% you think Andre's FG% would increase?

I think it's definitely possible as he develops better positioning down low pre-post, taking more at the rim and less from 7-8 ft. All those long fadeaway hook shots are why his FG% went from 60% to low 50's, more so than the volume. Most of his shots were right at the rim his first 2 yrs. If he makes the effort to get deep position every time on post-ups + the usual high % lobs/putbacks, he should be able to shoot 56-57% on high volume.

Not really, his FG% dropped cause his offense consisted of only dunks and put backs. His first 2 seasons he had a USG% of 17.2 and 16.7. These last two season his USG% increase to 22 and 24.1 because he was getting more post ups call for him. Even in Andre's first years his shooting numbers aren't better and Andre's post game isn't close to Shaq's.

You just repeated the same thing I said. He shot a high % when he took most of his shots at the rim his first 2 seasons. Then it went down when he started extending his range the last 2. So if he starts moving his post game in closer to the rim, his % should go back up again.

His % at the rim should also improve as we improve the perimeter shooting around him (w/ a less crowded paint).

The thing to remember about his FG% though is that he gets a lot of multiple-tap putbacks that make his % lower than it really is. So he might be 10-18 in a game (56%), but have a 3-tap putback mixed in and only finish 11-21 (52%), when it really should be 11-19 for 58%. But he still gets the same 22 pts on the same efficiency. Add in 3-4 pts off FTs and there's his 25-26 ppg. So shooting the high FG% isn't end all be all for him.

[need4detroit]

Size-wise he's smaller than Shaq but he's clearly bigger and stronger than Dwight and DeAndre and has softer hands and touch than Dwight and DeAndre though the worst defender of the 4. On the other hand offensively he will probably end up being significantly better than Dwight and DeAndre of course.

[mattao313]

I think it's definitely possible as he develops better positioning down low pre-post, taking more at the rim and less from 7-8 ft. All those long fadeaway hook shots are why his FG% went from 60% to low 50's, more so than the volume. Most of his shots were right at the rim his first 2 yrs. If he makes the effort to get deep position every time on post-ups + the usual high % lobs/putbacks, he should be able to shoot 56-57% on high volume.

Not really, his FG% dropped cause his offense consisted of only dunks and put backs. His first 2 seasons he had a USG% of 17.2 and 16.7. These last two season his USG% increase to 22 and 24.1 because he was getting more post ups call for him. Even in Andre's first years his shooting numbers aren't better and Andre's post game isn't close to Shaq's.

You just repeated the same thing I said. He shot a high % when he took most of his shots at the rim his first 2 seasons. Then it went down when he started extending his range the last 2. So if he starts moving his post game in closer to the rim, his % should go back up again.

His % at the rim should also improve as we improve the perimeter shooting around him (w/ a less crowded paint).

The thing to remember about his FG% though is that he gets a lot of multiple-tap putbacks that make his % lower than it really is. So he might be 10-18 in a game (56%), but have a 3-tap putback mixed in and only finish 11-21 (52%), when it really should be 11-19 for 58%. But he still gets the same 22 pts on the same efficiency. Add in 3-4 pts off FTs and there's his 25-26 ppg. So shooting the high FG% isn't end all be all for him.

He took 95% of his shots with in 9 feet last season, .592 at the rim(0-2) and .358 3-9 feet. For reference Shaq's career (unfortunately only 12 season) shot 93% within 9 feet. So its very similar Andre isn't gonna get 2 foot shots every post up and his shot distribution is very close to the hoop, he actually took a higher percentage of his shots at the rim last season than Shaq ever did with the data available.

Also yup Andre is a monster on the offensive boards but it still isn't close. Shaq is a career 75% at the rim and 42% 3-9 feet. Drummond last year doesn't come close.

Edit: also the spacing thing is bull most of the time he doesn't get doubled in the post and if he does he gets flustered.

[Pharaoh]

Shaq shot 93% of his at the rim cause he dominated physically and dunked the spunk outta the ball.

Dre needs to do that! Use your physical gifts to abuse defenders

[mattao313]

Shaq shot 93% of his at the rim cause he dominated physically and dunked the spunk outta the ball.

Dre needs to do that! Use your physical gifts to abuse defenders

Sorry that was a typo it's 93% of his shots within 9 feet.

[Todd3]

Not really, his FG% dropped cause his offense consisted of only dunks and put backs. His first 2 seasons he had a USG% of 17.2 and 16.7. These last two season his USG% increase to 22 and 24.1 because he was getting more post ups call for him. Even in Andre's first years his shooting numbers aren't better and Andre's post game isn't close to Shaq's.

You just repeated the same thing I said. He shot a high % when he took most of his shots at the rim his first 2 seasons. Then it went down when he started extending his range the last 2. So if he starts moving his post game in closer to the rim, his % should go back up again.

His % at the rim should also improve as we improve the perimeter shooting around him (w/ a less crowded paint).

The thing to remember about his FG% though is that he gets a lot of multiple-tap putbacks that make his % lower than it really is. So he might be 10-18 in a game (56%), but have a 3-tap putback mixed in and only finish 11-21 (52%), when it really should be 11-19 for 58%. But he still gets the same 22 pts on the same efficiency. Add in 3-4 pts off FTs and there's his 25-26 ppg. So shooting the high FG% isn't end all be all for him.

He took 95% of his shots with in 9 feet last season, .592 at the rim(0-2) and .358 3-9 feet. For reference Shaq's career (unfortunately only 12 season) shot 93% of his shots at the rim. So its very similar Andre isn't gonna get 2 foot shots every post up and his shot distribution is very close to the hoop, he actually took a higher percentage of his shots at the rim last season than Shaq ever did with the data available.

Also yup Andre is a monster on the offensive boards but it still isn't close. Shaq is a career 75% at the rim and 42% 3-9 feet. Drummond last year doesn't come close.

Edit: also the spacing thing is bull most of the time he doesn't get doubled in the post and if he does he gets flustered.

He doesn't have to do it ALL through the post like Shaq. That's not his game.

He could get 18 FGAs: 1/3 Pick & Roll, 1/3 Post-up, 1/3 Putbacks/lobs/misc

Let's say of his 6 post-ups, he gets 3 at the rim at 60%, and 3 from 3-9 ft at 40% (going by last years %). That would average out to 50% overall in the post (3-6 FG).

He was 62% on pick & roll and 59% on putbacks last year. Let's say he finishes 60% of each. 12 x 0.60 = 7.2-12 FG in pnr/putback.

3-6 FG + 7.2-12 FG = 10.2-18 FG overall = 57% FG

And yes spacing matters when it comes to finishing at the rim. It's not about double teams, it's having to finish through 2-3 guys packing the paint, vs just 1 when you have the court spread with shooters. That makes a big difference. There's a reason DeAndre finished 82% in PnR and Dre only 62%. Even if you think he's better, he's not THAT much better. It's because he had the 6th best 3pt shooting team around him and Dre had the 21st.

[Todd3]

On this team though, I'd say 15 FGA is probably the most he'd get.

So adjust that to 5 of each category instead and that would be about 8.5-15 FG.

17 pts off FGs + 3-5 pts off FTs = ~20-22 ppg is probably his peak in this system. Which is about what Dwight/Shaq peaked at with Stan.

[mattao313]

You just repeated the same thing I said. He shot a high % when he took most of his shots at the rim his first 2 seasons. Then it went down when he started extending his range the last 2. So if he starts moving his post game in closer to the rim, his % should go back up again.

His % at the rim should also improve as we improve the perimeter shooting around him (w/ a less crowded paint).

The thing to remember about his FG% though is that he gets a lot of multiple-tap putbacks that make his % lower than it really is. So he might be 10-18 in a game (56%), but have a 3-tap putback mixed in and only finish 11-21 (52%), when it really should be 11-19 for 58%. But he still gets the same 22 pts on the same efficiency. Add in 3-4 pts off FTs and there's his 25-26 ppg. So shooting the high FG% isn't end all be all for him.

He took 95% of his shots with in 9 feet last season, .592 at the rim(0-2) and .358 3-9 feet. For reference Shaq's career (unfortunately only 12 season) shot 93% of his shots at the rim. So its very similar Andre isn't gonna get 2 foot shots every post up and his shot distribution is very close to the hoop, he actually took a higher percentage of his shots at the rim last season than Shaq ever did with the data available.

Also yup Andre is a monster on the offensive boards but it still isn't close. Shaq is a career 75% at the rim and 42% 3-9 feet. Drummond last year doesn't come close.

Edit: also the spacing thing is bull most of the time he doesn't get doubled in the post and if he does he gets flustered.

He doesn't have to do it ALL through the post like Shaq. That's not his game.

He could get 18 FGAs: 1/3 Pick & Roll, 1/3 Post-up, 1/3 Putbacks/lobs/misc

Let's say of his 6 post-ups, he gets 3 at the rim at 60%, and 3 from 3-9 ft at 40% (going by last years %). That would average out to 50% overall in the post (3-6 FG).

He was 62% on pick & roll and 59% on putbacks last year. Let's say he finishes 60% of each. 12 x 0.60 = 7.2-12 FG in pnr/putback.

3-6 FG + 7.2-12 FG = 10.2-18 FG overall = 57% FG

And yes spacing matters when it comes to finishing at the rim. It's not about double teams, it's having to finish through 2-3 guys packing the paint, vs just 1 when you have the court spread with shooters. That makes a big difference. There's a reason Deandre finished 82% in PnR and Dre only 62%. Even if you think he's better, he's not THAT much better. It's because he had the 6th best 3pt shooting team around him and Dre had the 21st.

He isn't that good in the post tho its only so much scoring he can do in the pnr since he can't shoot,anyway this is all hypothetical he hasn't shown this. And even then teams are gonna game plan for him just like what happened in the first couple of month last season.

Of course Deandre is going to finish well he plays with a point God in Chris Paul. If Andre played with the best shooters in the league he ain't putting up 27 point on 57% FG in any system. A system can make a player play better but not turn into a all time great.

[Todd3]

He took 95% of his shots with in 9 feet last season, .592 at the rim(0-2) and .358 3-9 feet. For reference Shaq's career (unfortunately only 12 season) shot 93% of his shots at the rim. So its very similar Andre isn't gonna get 2 foot shots every post up and his shot distribution is very close to the hoop, he actually took a higher percentage of his shots at the rim last season than Shaq ever did with the data available.

Also yup Andre is a monster on the offensive boards but it still isn't close. Shaq is a career 75% at the rim and 42% 3-9 feet. Drummond last year doesn't come close.

Edit: also the spacing thing is bull most of the time he doesn't get doubled in the post and if he does he gets flustered.

He doesn't have to do it ALL through the post like Shaq. That's not his game.

He could get 18 FGAs: 1/3 Pick & Roll, 1/3 Post-up, 1/3 Putbacks/lobs/misc

Let's say of his 6 post-ups, he gets 3 at the rim at 60%, and 3 from 3-9 ft at 40% (going by last years %). That would average out to 50% overall in the post (3-6 FG).

He was 62% on pick & roll and 59% on putbacks last year. Let's say he finishes 60% of each. 12 x 0.60 = 7.2-12 FG in pnr/putback.

3-6 FG + 7.2-12 FG = 10.2-18 FG overall = 57% FG

And yes spacing matters when it comes to finishing at the rim. It's not about double teams, it's having to finish through 2-3 guys packing the paint, vs just 1 when you have the court spread with shooters. That makes a big difference. There's a reason Deandre finished 82% in PnR and Dre only 62%. Even if you think he's better, he's not THAT much better. It's because he had the 6th best 3pt shooting team around him and Dre had the 21st.

He isn't that good in the post tho its only so much scoring he can do in the pnr since he can't shoot,anyway this is all hypothetical he hasn't shown this. And even then teams are gonna game plan for him just like what happened in the first couple of month last season.

Of course Deandre is going to finish well he plays with a point God in Chris Paul. If Andre played with the best shooters in the league he ain't putting up 27 point on 57% FG in any system. A system can make a player play better but not turn into a all time great.

Since this is all hypothetical, I'm just going to agree to disagree here.