Music to my ears: Ibaka Wants To Stay With Magic 'Forever'

[JF5]

Yes. Our other summer free agency acquisitions would've been different though.

They Paid Jeff Green 15 million for 1 year... Tobias is making 16 million over the next 3...

And we gave Augustin 7 mil per year. The money was there for Biyombo regardless of that trade, unless you believe that Green or Augustin were priorities over Biyombo in free agency?

Oh no I agree with you...

Harris shouldn't have been traded... At least until there was a better deal within the next few years...

[j_n]

Could we have signed Biyombo if we still had Harris though?

Yes. Our other summer free agency acquisitions would've been different though.

They Paid Jeff Green 15 million for 1 year... Tobias is making 16 million over the next 3...

Right, but Green is a vet whose a similar level player as Tobias and he expires at the end of the year so we can have the flexibility to trade his expiring or go after a max free agent next summer.

If you bring Tobias off the bench at 16 million a year it makes him a borderline bad contract with almost no value and with his size he doesnt have much upside.

[Skin]

Yes. Our other summer free agency acquisitions would've been different though.

They Paid Jeff Green 15 million for 1 year... Tobias is making 16 million over the next 3...

Right, but Green is a vet whose a similar level player as Tobias and he expires at the end of the year so we can have the flexibility to trade his expiring or go after a max free agent next summer.

If you bring Tobias off the bench at 16 million a year it makes him a borderline bad contract with almost no value and with his size he doesnt have much upside.

This man gets it.

It's either that or Tobias starts and Aaron Gordon continues to ride the bench. Hezonja? Forget about him.

Lastly... if Tobias is here... so is Scott Skiles. The fact that we made that trade for him and we still missed the playoffs got his ass canned.

[Xatticus]

Yes. Our other summer free agency acquisitions would've been different though.

They Paid Jeff Green 15 million for 1 year... Tobias is making 16 million over the next 3...

Right, but Green is a vet whose a similar level player as Tobias and he expires at the end of the year so we can have the flexibility to trade his expiring or go after a max free agent next summer.

If you bring Tobias off the bench at 16 million a year it makes him a borderline bad contract with almost no value and with his size he doesnt have much upside.

This is a tired argument built on faulty logic. We traded Harris when his value was at it's absolute lowest after signing that deal. With the rapidly increasing cap over the next couple seasons, his contract was only going to become more palatable to potential suitors beginning this past summer. The lack of additional years on Green's contract is only beneficial if we assume that the net value of the contract is a negative, at which point the best scenario would have been to not sign him at all.

Harris was an asset that was dumped for flexibility (nothing), that was then used to sign Green. He could have been traded at any point between then and whenever we actually acquire a player with those freed up resources that might've justified giving him away. Surely an opportunity would've arisen where we could've received an asset in return. Harris is out and Green is in. I have trouble rationalizing that into a net gain.

[basketballRob]

Their are only so many salary slots. You could say we basically traded Harris for Biyombo. Plus Harris was redundant since we have Gordon.

[Skin]

They Paid Jeff Green 15 million for 1 year... Tobias is making 16 million over the next 3...

Right, but Green is a vet whose a similar level player as Tobias and he expires at the end of the year so we can have the flexibility to trade his expiring or go after a max free agent next summer.

If you bring Tobias off the bench at 16 million a year it makes him a borderline bad contract with almost no value and with his size he doesnt have much upside.

This is a tired argument built on faulty logic. We traded Harris when his value was at it's absolute lowest after signing that deal. With the rapidly increasing cap over the next couple seasons, his contract was only going to become more palatable to potential suitors beginning this past summer. The lack of additional years on Green's contract is only beneficial if we assume that the net value of the contract is a negative, at which point the best scenario would have been to not sign him at all.

Harris was an asset that was dumped for flexibility (nothing), that was then used to sign Green. He could have been traded at any point between then and whenever we actually acquire a player with those freed up resources that might've justified giving him away. Surely an opportunity would've arisen where we could've received an asset in return. Harris is out and Green is in. I have trouble rationalizing that into a net gain.

Addition by subtraction. Green knows his role is off the bench. Harris was still trying to lead this team. That was never gonna work. We're on to the next discovery.

[tooler]

Green thinks he's a starter and he's going to push Aaron Gordon to be better, then ultimately step aside and enjoy his $15M.

[j_n]

This is a tired argument built on faulty logic. We traded Harris when his value was at it's absolute lowest after signing that deal. With the rapidly increasing cap over the next couple seasons, his contract was only going to become more palatable to potential suitors beginning this past summer. The lack of additional years on Green's contract is only beneficial if we assume that the net value of the contract is a negative, at which point the best scenario would have been to not sign him at all.

Harris was an asset that was dumped for flexibility (nothing), that was then used to sign Green. He could have been traded at any point between then and whenever we actually acquire a player with those freed up resources that might've justified giving him away. Surely an opportunity would've arisen where we could've received an asset in return. Harris is out and Green is in. I have trouble rationalizing that into a net gain.

1. Harris' value could have gone much lower when Aaron Gordon inevitably took starting role at the 4 and Hezonja/Fournier at the 3, at that point you might have to add a pick to dump his contract.

2. At the time of the trade the cap wasnt expected to rise as much as it did, and Im not sure but I think the cap is expected to go down after hitting an all time high next offseason.

3.The lack of additional years gives you a deeper rotation without sacrificing flexibility, If you can have a similar level of player and still have room for a max guy that seems like a better alternative than locking up your cap space on borderline starters that dont fit the team and plays the same position as your highest ceiling guys.
Its better to have cap space when the opportunity comes than trying to dump a large contract and having to add some sweetners in order to do so.
Even if you might not get that max guy, its always better to have that option.

4. We were only a few games away from the playoffs, a healthy Ilyasova and Jennings could have helped us make a playoff push.
There is value in winning a few extra games before free agency, the trade could have helped us attract the top level free agents but Ilyasova got injured and Jennings sucked so it didnt really work but thats hindsight.

[JF5]

This is a tired argument built on faulty logic. We traded Harris when his value was at it's absolute lowest after signing that deal. With the rapidly increasing cap over the next couple seasons, his contract was only going to become more palatable to potential suitors beginning this past summer. The lack of additional years on Green's contract is only beneficial if we assume that the net value of the contract is a negative, at which point the best scenario would have been to not sign him at all.

Harris was an asset that was dumped for flexibility (nothing), that was then used to sign Green. He could have been traded at any point between then and whenever we actually acquire a player with those freed up resources that might've justified giving him away. Surely an opportunity would've arisen where we could've received an asset in return. Harris is out and Green is in. I have trouble rationalizing that into a net gain.

1. Harris' value could have gone much lower when Aaron Gordon inevitably took starting role at the 4 and Hezonja/Fournier at the 3, at that point you might have to add a pick to dump his contract.

2. At the time of the trade the cap wasnt expected to rise as much as it did, and Im not sure but I think the cap is expected to go down after hitting an all time high next offseason.

3.The lack of additional years gives you a deeper rotation without sacrificing flexibility, If you can have a similar level of player and still have room for a max guy that seems like a better alternative than locking up your cap space on borderline starters that dont fit the team and plays the same position as your highest ceiling guys.
Its better to have cap space when the opportunity comes than trying to dump a large contract and having to add some sweetners in order to do so.
Even if you might not get that max guy, its always better to have that option.

4. We were only a few games away from the playoffs, a healthy Ilyasova and Jennings could have helped us make a playoff push.
There is value in winning a few extra games before free agency, the trade could have helped us attract the top level free agents but Ilyasova got injured and Jennings sucked so it didnt really work but thats hindsight.

1. Harris was going to get playing time given the offensive ineptitude this team had. I have a hard time believe AG is going to get all the minutes at SF. Plus, I like my young players to have competition for their spots.

2. The cap is going to stay relatively high regardless...

3. THE MAGIC WERE NOT GETTING ANY MAX GUYS ANY TIME SOON... Unless this team is on the Brink of competing for a title or is already a title contender, there is no reason why any Superstar would come here. This holding out cap for a max player talk really needs to stop. Especially now when this team looks like its retooling/still rebuilding.

4. That trade forced players out of position, and the Magic dealt for guys who were aging/coming off injury. After the first few games it was clear this team wasn't making the playoffs.

[Skin]

This is a tired argument built on faulty logic. We traded Harris when his value was at it's absolute lowest after signing that deal. With the rapidly increasing cap over the next couple seasons, his contract was only going to become more palatable to potential suitors beginning this past summer. The lack of additional years on Green's contract is only beneficial if we assume that the net value of the contract is a negative, at which point the best scenario would have been to not sign him at all.

Harris was an asset that was dumped for flexibility (nothing), that was then used to sign Green. He could have been traded at any point between then and whenever we actually acquire a player with those freed up resources that might've justified giving him away. Surely an opportunity would've arisen where we could've received an asset in return. Harris is out and Green is in. I have trouble rationalizing that into a net gain.

1. Harris' value could have gone much lower when Aaron Gordon inevitably took starting role at the 4 and Hezonja/Fournier at the 3, at that point you might have to add a pick to dump his contract.

2. At the time of the trade the cap wasnt expected to rise as much as it did, and Im not sure but I think the cap is expected to go down after hitting an all time high next offseason.

3.The lack of additional years gives you a deeper rotation without sacrificing flexibility, If you can have a similar level of player and still have room for a max guy that seems like a better alternative than locking up your cap space on borderline starters that dont fit the team and plays the same position as your highest ceiling guys.
Its better to have cap space when the opportunity comes than trying to dump a large contract and having to add some sweetners in order to do so.
Even if you might not get that max guy, its always better to have that option.

4. We were only a few games away from the playoffs, a healthy Ilyasova and Jennings could have helped us make a playoff push.
There is value in winning a few extra games before free agency, the trade could have helped us attract the top level free agents but Ilyasova got injured and Jennings sucked so it didnt really work but thats hindsight.

1. Harris was going to get playing time given the offensive ineptitude this team had. I have a hard time believe AG is going to get all the minutes at SF. Plus, I like my young players to have competition for their spots.

2. The cap is going to stay relatively high regardless...

3. THE MAGIC WERE NOT GETTING ANY MAX GUYS ANY TIME SOON... Unless this team is on the Brink of competing for a title or is already a title contender, there is no reason why any Superstar would come here. This holding out cap for a max player talk really needs to stop. Especially now when this team looks like its retooling/still rebuilding.

4. That trade forced players out of position, and the Magic dealt for guys who were aging/coming off injury. After the first few games it was clear this team wasn't making the playoffs.

1. I agree the value for Tobias that we got in return was low. We should've traded him at the Trade Deadline BEFORE the summer in which we paid him his new contract. That's when his value was highest and teams would've acquired his RFA status and Bird rights. So if there's a fault, that's where I would point my finger.

But I'm not upset about getting rid of him when we did because I have been advocating Gordon over him for a while now. That's what I mean about addition by subtraction. Tobias had started to play like Rudy Gay once we gave him that new contract. Guys like that CANNOT lead successful teams. He can be a good 3rd/4th option though. Put them on a strong supporting cast and they can look a lot better. Look at the Kings, they can't get a good offer for Gay. So I also disagree with folks who think we should've gotten a lot more than what we did for Tobias. The amount of discontent about the trade doesn't equate the margin of loss.

Hennigan likes competition for his young players too... and it's still there even after the loss of Tobias. The difference is, there is no cannibalism. Players know their roles. There's a better balance between young and old. Better understanding of the future vision of the team and who the franchise wants to invest in.

2. Agreed on the cap.

3. Agreed on the plan that we were never saving money for a max FA. Always said, we're saving our money to reinvest in our own young players. The only difference now is that Victor is out and Serge is in. Which in a way is a win for those who said we saved our money for a star FA and a win for those who said we're saving our money for our own young players. We got Serge now which beats us to the punch in FA. Had we chased him next summer, the chances of actually landing him are far far less than being able to do that now. But in the end, the Magic are using their long term big money contracts on young internal players. Vucevic, Fournier, Biyombo now... Payton, Gordon, Ibaka in the future.

4. Yep, that trade didn't work... and it pissed off Hennigan so much that he made life miserable for Skiles to tolerate being here. Trolled him right out the door... and Helloooo Frank Vogel!

[j_n]

1. Harris was going to get playing time given the offensive ineptitude this team had. I have a hard time believe AG is going to get all the minutes at SF. Plus, I like my young players to have competition for their spots.

2. The cap is going to stay relatively high regardless...

3. THE MAGIC WERE NOT GETTING ANY MAX GUYS ANY TIME SOON... Unless this team is on the Brink of competing for a title or is already a title contender, there is no reason why any Superstar would come here. This holding out cap for a max player talk really needs to stop. Especially now when this team looks like its retooling/still rebuilding.

4. That trade forced players out of position, and the Magic dealt for guys who were aging/coming off injury. After the first few games it was clear this team wasn't making the playoffs.

If he was relegated to a bench role than it could lower his trade value to a negative given his salary.

As far as getting a max guy, Im not talking about the Lebrons or Durants, Im talking about the Horford/Conely/Barnes type of max players and we certainly had a shot at getting those guys if we made the playoffs

[Skin]

1. Harris was going to get playing time given the offensive ineptitude this team had. I have a hard time believe AG is going to get all the minutes at SF. Plus, I like my young players to have competition for their spots.

2. The cap is going to stay relatively high regardless...

3. THE MAGIC WERE NOT GETTING ANY MAX GUYS ANY TIME SOON... Unless this team is on the Brink of competing for a title or is already a title contender, there is no reason why any Superstar would come here. This holding out cap for a max player talk really needs to stop. Especially now when this team looks like its retooling/still rebuilding.

4. That trade forced players out of position, and the Magic dealt for guys who were aging/coming off injury. After the first few games it was clear this team wasn't making the playoffs.

If he was relegated to a bench role than it could lower his trade value to a negative given his salary.

As far as getting a max guy, Im not talking about the Lebrons or Durants, Im talking about the Horford/Conely/Barnes type of max players and we certainly had a shot at getting those guys if we made the playoffs

I'm glad we don't have any of those guys though.

If there was a max guy I wanted, it was Whiteside. But that was always a pipe dream. Semi surprised he stayed in Miami. Was thinking he would go to the Lakers or a contender.

[simon24]

Pressure is now on Hennigan to officially begin working that extension offer.

25 mil a year?

[Skin]

Pressure is now on Hennigan to officially begin working that extension offer.

25 mil a year?

Or more. Whatever it costs. He's a championship caliber piece.

[simon24]

Pressure is now on Hennigan to officially begin working that extension offer.

25 mil a year?

Or more. Whatever it costs. He's a championship caliber piece.

I would think he's a good 3rd option on a championship team like Bosh (MIA), Love (CLE), Horford (BOS). Not sure if ORL has a 1st or 2nd option. I guess Gordon is supposed to breakout at SF this year.

[erod009]

25 mil a year?

Or more. Whatever it costs. He's a championship caliber piece.

I would think he's a good 3rd option on a championship team like Bosh (MIA), Love (CLE), Horford (BOS). Not sure if ORL has a 1st or 2nd option. I guess Gordon is supposed to breakout at SF this year.

I'm not sure Boston has a second option either before Horford.

[simon24]

Or more. Whatever it costs. He's a championship caliber piece.

I would think he's a good 3rd option on a championship team like Bosh (MIA), Love (CLE), Horford (BOS). Not sure if ORL has a 1st or 2nd option. I guess Gordon is supposed to breakout at SF this year.

I'm not sure Boston has a second option either before Horford.

Yeah, they don't. Just a team of role players. Maybe Brown becomes "The Guy".

[Skin]

25 mil a year?

Or more. Whatever it costs. He's a championship caliber piece.

I would think he's a good 3rd option on a championship team like Bosh (MIA), Love (CLE), Horford (BOS). Not sure if ORL has a 1st or 2nd option. I guess Gordon is supposed to breakout at SF this year.

The floor to keep Ibaka will be $25M. No price is too high.

[simon24]

Or more. Whatever it costs. He's a championship caliber piece.

I would think he's a good 3rd option on a championship team like Bosh (MIA), Love (CLE), Horford (BOS). Not sure if ORL has a 1st or 2nd option. I guess Gordon is supposed to breakout at SF this year.

The floor to keep Ibaka will be $25M. No price is too high.

He looked good against ATL yesterday. If Horford can get a deal starting at 26 mil, I guess Ibaka can get 25 mil.

[Rita2222]

Maybe he'll come back in the offseason. After all, he said he wants to stay here forever. He must be heartbroken after this trade.