Preseason Game 2 - Utah Jazz at Phoenix Suns

[TeamTragic]

I think that was just you and I guess McD. Along with your "wouldn't trade Goodwin for Ibaka" thought.

I gave Goodwin a chance which is perfectly acceptable with our trash squad last season. Ibaka is overrated and maybe you should look towards the future versus hanging onto past comments.

On that topic Len has been a disappointment with his injuries and vanishing act on a trash team with no stars last season.

Yes, Len is a disappointment. I am hoping he turns it around. But don't act like other people are idiots when you have provided proof of your own in the past.

There were legitimately people on this board last season that wanted to give Len an extension and said that he was better than Gobert. I know that last season was awful but that doesn't excuse stupidity.

If we give Len an extension we are making a poor choice. I still don't understand why he can't play better than Robin Lopez. Archie needs a fresh start and we should move him ASAP.

[8on]

i'm in camp #tradelen. if we give Alex Len $70 million dollars, as opposed to waiting for better, cheaper free agents (like Tyson), Ryan McD doesn't deserve to make those decisions. I do think Bender was drafted with Len's departure in mind. I don't have any idea who would want him and what we could get for him. Maybe we could trade he and P.J. to the Knicks for somebody like Courtney Lee. The point is, Ryan's strategy so far has been to dump vets, get picks and keep trading up until we get a core and squad that works. I've never been that high on Len (preferred Nerlens Noel or Trey Burke, honestly), but to give him $70M just cuts into our future, and that's the only thing that matters.

(We didn't look terrible tonight. I didn't think we looked great, though. Alex was sloppy whenever he touched the ball. Devin looked really nice, but the connection between he and Bled doesn't seem rock solid yet. TJ needs more time.....or maybe they all need more time to gel. I'm sure that's part of it. Five point loss to three of Utah's starters really isn't a bad sign. It's our first preseason game. In this case, I think it's smart to manage expectations.)

[LacosteM]

I didn't not catch the game. Can someone make a little player performance writedown ?

[Kerrsed]

Yeah, im still in the #TradeLen camp. Len/Goodwin to Philly for Noel (or Okafor). I prefer Noel, a top notch defensive former Kentucky Wildcat. He is what Chandler used to be, and that is perfect. Give me a big mobile C that stays in the paint, grabbing rebounds and swatting shots. Its like 2nd nature to this kid. Under Chandlers tutelage, Noel would become a Defensive Player of the Year EASY.

[m1chal]

And what about Noel's knees, redflagged by our own Suns doctors iirc? Let's give Len another whole season of consistent minutes as a starter and then start making decisions.

[TeamTragic]

Yeah, im still in the #TradeLen camp. Len/Goodwin to Philly for Noel (or Okafor). I prefer Noel, a top notch defensive former Kentucky Wildcat. He is what Chandler used to be, and that is perfect. Give me a big mobile C that stays in the paint, grabbing rebounds and swatting shots. Its like 2nd nature to this kid. Under Chandlers tutelage, Noel would become a Defensive Player of the Year EASY.

I would do that trade in a heartbeat. Can you imagine Noel blocking shots and grabbing boards?

And what about Noel's knees, redflagged by our own Suns doctors iirc? Let's give Len another whole season of consistent minutes as a starter and then start making decisions.

Noel didn't get much playing time last season. Len on the other hand had consistent minutes. Noel would be an upgrade over Len defensively at this point with or without his bad knees.

[letsgosuns]

The issue with Len is that he is getting pushed around by whoever is around him. He does not look strong. That is a really bad sign considering his size and especially since it is his fourth year in the league. I remember Kenny Smith said many years ago that every great big man in NBA history dominated from the day they stepped foot into the league. The most recent guy I can think of like that is Kary-Anthony Towns. Len has rarely if ever looked like a dominant force.

Len has a nice stroke for a big man but he is not controlling the paint defensively. That is the most important thing for him to do as a center. You have to be able to play defense. Not only have other centers been scoring on him easily, but guards are also scoring on him consistently. As much as I want him to become a great player, I do not know if it is going to happen. I think we would have seen much bigger improvement by now if he was going to turn into a game changing center. I am not saying the Suns need to trade him, but so far these first two games, he does not look any better than last season.

The thought of Noel on this team next to a guy like Chriss is very intriguing. That might be the most athletic frontcourt in the league. Then when you factor in other players like Bender and Warren, you are talking top to bottom one of the most athletic teams in basketball. There is no substitute for having great athletes. The best teams in the league always consist of players who are superior athletically. Hopefully Len improves though and the Suns will not have to make a change at center.

[PerkinsFor3]

Yeah, im still in the #TradeLen camp. Len/Goodwin to Philly for Noel (or Okafor). I prefer Noel, a top notch defensive former Kentucky Wildcat. He is what Chandler used to be, and that is perfect. Give me a big mobile C that stays in the paint, grabbing rebounds and swatting shots. Its like 2nd nature to this kid. Under Chandlers tutelage, Noel would become a Defensive Player of the Year EASY.

Alex Len > Nerlens Noel
Bender+Chandler > John Wall
Dudley+Tucker+Warren+Williams > Boogie+WCS
Chriss + 2nd > Murray
Barbosa > Trey Lyles
2nd for Dhakari Johnson
Sign James Young when he gets cut



Wall / Murray / Ulis
Bledsoe / Knight / Goodwin
Booker / Young
Boogie / WCS / Lyles
Noel / Dhakari

boom. Phoenix Wildcats.

[batsmasher]

Len had quite a few games in his second season where I was convinced he'd dominate. His biggest problem is he doesn't play like a 7'1" center. I think his first few years have been him feeling out what he can do, and to be honest it still looks like that. The best success he had was when he just focused on the fundamentals. Develop that post game, attack the rim, get the footwork right.

He really stands out as a guy that has too many options to decide what type of player he is. He's 7'1", that's not gonna change.

[bwgood77]

I gave Goodwin a chance which is perfectly acceptable with our trash squad last season. Ibaka is overrated and maybe you should look towards the future versus hanging onto past comments.

On that topic Len has been a disappointment with his injuries and vanishing act on a trash team with no stars last season.

Yes, Len is a disappointment. I am hoping he turns it around. But don't act like other people are idiots when you have provided proof of your own in the past.

There were legitimately people on this board last season that wanted to give Len an extension and said that he was better than Gobert. I know that last season was awful but that doesn't excuse stupidity.

If we give Len an extension we are making a poor choice. I still don't understand why he can't play better than Robin Lopez. Archie needs a fresh start and we should move him ASAP.

The only person I saw argue that Len was better than Noel and he also mentioned Gobert, Adams, etc was NavLDo, arguing he was better at offense. He later mentioned he doesn't watch the games.

It was mostly just him and saintEscaton arguing.

I doubt you will find one person that thinks Len is better than Gobert...unless he still does.

[alphagorilla]

I know its early but I have no faith in Len. He just doesn't have it and I think we should try really hard to ship him before the contract talk starts. We need a defensive Center that glues the team together, a young Chandler would have been that guy but not today. top of my mind there are players like Gobert, Adams, Whiteside and Noel. At some point we should try to ship Knight for Noel which I think is a fair deal and benefits both teams.

[NTB]

I don't understand the negative vibe here.

[batsmasher]

I don't understand the negative vibe here.

You can tell we are transitioning from pre-season hype to 82 games of pure negativity.

[NTB]

Watch on YouTube

[MathiasPW]

watched the game this morning.

Len looked bad, yes, but against Gobert there is only so much you can do. His shot looks nice, and on defense he was mostly left alone to cover whoever got freed up after a PnR, leaving Gobert open for several dunks. Not fully his fault. It´s ok. The bad part is he is still trying too much, forcing bad possessions in the post instead of kicking the ball out.

Warren, Chriss and Bender looked fine. The last two still obviously need to get used to the whole NBA thing. I particularly liked Benders defense in the post and how he cuts to the rim for easy buckets and tip-ins.

I loved Knight. That´s exactly what he needs to do, to dominate the second unit.

[bwgood77]

I don't understand the negative vibe here.

Lets start it now!

[RunDogGun]

Yeah, im still in the #TradeLen camp. Len/Goodwin to Philly for Noel (or Okafor). I prefer Noel, a top notch defensive former Kentucky Wildcat. He is what Chandler used to be, and that is perfect. Give me a big mobile C that stays in the paint, grabbing rebounds and swatting shots. Its like 2nd nature to this kid. Under Chandlers tutelage, Noel would become a Defensive Player of the Year EASY.

I really feel that Colangelo would rather give up Okafor before Noel because of off court actions.

[RunDogGun]

I don't understand the negative vibe here.

Honestly it started a bit with the players. We still are making lazy and/or just really bad passes to start the game. Our team looked hungover. Second half, different story. With better starts to games, I can see fans being more positive.

Overall, I'm always optimistic to start a season. We have so many young guys and some taking on new roles.

[RunDogGun]

And what about Noel's knees, redflagged by our own Suns doctors iirc? Let's give Len another whole season of consistent minutes as a starter and then start making decisions.

I thought he was flagged because he didn't provide us with medical information.

[RunDogGun]

I still see Len as a bench player, so I am not so down on him. He can be aggressive, but it seems as though he is concerned with fouls that often accompany aggressive yet awkward bigs. What I saw last night, was slow lateral movements and hands down when guarding outside.