ImageImageImageImageImage

PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6

Moderators: Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23

User avatar
bkknicks19
Rookie
Posts: 1,016
And1: 213
Joined: Feb 03, 2009

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#501 » by bkknicks19 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 7:41 pm

xNewYorkMadex wrote:I dont have a problem with Melo Iso'ing. Melo was a hell of a passer last season and Im not even criticizing him for that. My problem with him is his efficiency. And we all know how bad he looks in certain games.

Before the Knicks fell off a cliff last season (after the Jan 20th game vs Utah), I counted Melo shooting 40% and below about 18 or 19 times. Thats way too many considering we were still in playoff contention by that time, and im not even the counting the times he shot below 40% after Jan 20th.

Im a fan of Melo, and WANT him to do very well. But he has avoided any huge criticism because in fairness the team around him has been terrible. This season he honestly needs to cut out all the times he shoots below 40%. Even though I dislike this player, Melo needs to follow in the footsteps of Paul Pierce. A couple of years before he paired up with KG, Ray and Rondo, Pierce put up FG% of 40 & 41%. In 2006-07 he shot 43% -just like Melo is right now, the year they formed the big 3 w Rondo he went up to 46%. His percentages went as high as 50% and never went back to to 43% until his last season in Boston when they were pretty much done as a team.

I dont care how many points Melo averages. Maybe he doesnt need to average 19 PPG. I think he can easily bump it back up to 24 PPG. But all Melo needs to focus on is being efficient and doing it consistently. Melo absolutely cannot fall back into shooting below 40% on many nights and act as if it isnt a big deal or act if its "just one of those nights".


Agreed. I think his poor efficiency is really due to the fact that we've had to rely so heavily on him getting positioning and catching fire from tip off. We've failed at putting a team around him that can make it easy for him to just play ball. I completely agree with the idea of him playing similar to Paul Pierce (who I also can't stand lol) and I think this current team has a chance to be just that for him if we figure out how we should play soon enough. The pieces are there for us, at least in the starting lineup...
User avatar
Capn'O
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 89,664
And1: 109,179
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: Bone Goal
 

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#502 » by Capn'O » Thu Oct 6, 2016 7:41 pm

2010 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:#neverforget



:lol:

Shaq was straight disrespectful to elders lol.

And I assume that slightly crooked face/nose/mouth on a frustrated Dudley is the infamous "Yale face" lol

Do you remember when someone took a swipe at the ball and Dudley's schnowzer got in the way and they broke his nose. It was literally whacked to the side of his face looking like Daffy Duck's bill after getting blasted by Elmer Fudd.


:lol: I do vaguely remember that. I'm saying though - he was always in the middle of ****.

The nose is part of the Yale face but his whole HUGE angular face plus that perfect balding hair part is what makes it. It just screams creepy politician or insurance executive to me. Like, I was always surprised and somewhat suspicious to see him in uniform and wondered if the whole thing was a subliminal plot to garner support for US policy in the Middle East or something.

2010 wrote:Kuzminskas ??? Ndour


This one is really ripe for debate. So many angles you can take on it, most of which are at least a little bit race driven. Does seem to be a classic offense/defense debate, as well.

So amped that Billy looks good. I've been riding that horse since he was drafted. His footwork is just so advanced for his age but you never know how these kids translate.
BAF Clippers:
UNDER CONSTRUCTION

:beer:
User avatar
Capn'O
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 89,664
And1: 109,179
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: Bone Goal
 

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#503 » by Capn'O » Thu Oct 6, 2016 7:51 pm

On Melo - he's always selfish as hell and pretty bad in the preseason. Right or wrong, his moves need a bit of a tuneup against real competition. In a sense, you'd rather that he work his way up from being a cog and learn the new players before asserting himself as a main option but other than that there's no real takeaway as to what he'll do in the regular season.
BAF Clippers:
UNDER CONSTRUCTION

:beer:
Rotten Apple
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jun 25, 2016
     

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#504 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Oct 6, 2016 8:11 pm

islanders11040 wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:How many times did KP pass the ball on Tuesday? I'll wait

KP had 8 field goals. 6 of them were off assists, 1 was a put back, 1 was a iso. Melo had 4 field goals. 3 off iso and 1 assisted (and plenty of iso misses). So idk what you are implying with this statement.

Asks how many times he passed

Gets told how many times he shot

Throws in a Melo bash for no reason

Never change RealGM Knicks board, never change
User avatar
K_ick_God
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 80,879
And1: 43,336
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#505 » by K_ick_God » Thu Oct 6, 2016 8:15 pm

Rotten Apple wrote:
islanders11040 wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:How many times did KP pass the ball on Tuesday? I'll wait

KP had 8 field goals. 6 of them were off assists, 1 was a put back, 1 was a iso. Melo had 4 field goals. 3 off iso and 1 assisted (and plenty of iso misses). So idk what you are implying with this statement.

Asks how many times he passed

Gets told how many times he shot

Throws in a Melo bash for no reason

Never change RealGM Knicks board, never change


It's a HUGE but often missed idea in ANY discussion of a player's BBIQ. Not just whether he passes but when he takes his shots -- in rhythm in a way that keeps defenses honest and sets up your team to beat the other team later in the game, or just in a way that is kind of a one-off. It's not just whether you pass or shoot, but when you shoot, and whether it's off ball and body movement in a smarter way.

Melo is not a low IQ player but he's not a high IQ player. Regular IQ players who shoot a lot are good to have, and it's better than not having the scoring usually. But it's something to keep an eye on and manage.
Rotten Apple
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jun 25, 2016
     

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#506 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Oct 6, 2016 8:16 pm

JohnWillow wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
JohnWillow wrote:
Why you hate so much? I have seen you in the last 10 pages writing a hate comments towards KP because KP ISO (How many ISO did he did in the game? Max 3 there was), but Melo ISO alone gave you in the first quarter TWO offensive fouls (not saying that he does not need to do it, but I would love to see the ball movement like they did in first quarter when Rose drove to the basket and got on him 3 defenders, and he found C-Lee and passed a great pass to him from the three point line with no defender on him, he missed, but that is what I would like to see the Knicks do, play team bball) And btw just rewatched the first quarter KP got the ball in his hand 8 times only and passed it 6 times... isn't that ok? You need to be happy about that KP and Melo is in NY...


So it's hating when it's said about KP? But when it's about Melo it's the opposite. Good to know.

As for ball movement, agreed

As for KP and Melo being in NY I am happy I can call out KP for leaving his man open and slowing the offense down if I want. Guys do it to Melo so I don't see the problem if it's true. Also did you really count the passes? :lol: good job, good effort


I didn't hear you saying at game night about LFT and Kyle leaving open Anderson like 3-4 times when he shoot a tree ball, bigs need to help on Harden after pick n roll, it's gonna happen a lot man, KP was not the only one there. Team overall defense was really bad, it will be better when preseason and season progress.


You don't know what I said :lol:

And Melo will be better as the preseason and season progress so why go off on him after 1 preseason game?
Rotten Apple
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jun 25, 2016
     

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#507 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Oct 6, 2016 8:18 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
islanders11040 wrote:KP had 8 field goals. 6 of them were off assists, 1 was a put back, 1 was a iso. Melo had 4 field goals. 3 off iso and 1 assisted (and plenty of iso misses). So idk what you are implying with this statement.

Asks how many times he passed

Gets told how many times he shot

Throws in a Melo bash for no reason

Never change RealGM Knicks board, never change


It's a HUGE but often missed idea in ANY discussion of a player's BBIQ. Not just whether he passes but when he takes his shots -- in rhythm in a way that keeps defenses honest and sets up your team to beat the other team later in the game, or just in a way that is kind of a one-off. It's not just whether you pass or shoot, but when you shoot, and whether it's off ball and body movement in a smarter way.

Melo is not a low IQ player but he's not a high IQ player. Regular IQ players who shoot a lot are good to have, and it's better than not having the scoring usually. But it's something to keep an eye on and manage.


Yeah I'm not worried it's the preseason, these games mean little. My question still hasn't been answered tho
Knickerbock
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,699
And1: 897
Joined: Feb 12, 2016
 

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#508 » by Knickerbock » Thu Oct 6, 2016 8:31 pm

Knicks offense will come.. I'm not worried.. It just takes time to get to know each other's habits and sweat spots..

But they really need to figure out how to defend for 48 mins a game..
Bklyn&company
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,196
And1: 1,051
Joined: May 31, 2004

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#509 » by Bklyn&company » Thu Oct 6, 2016 8:55 pm

First preseason gamed not worried yet... like what I saw from Rose, KP, Jennings, Willy, Ndour, Kuz etc.. Melo is Melo... he just needs to stay more with the catch and shoot or post up... way less one step iso moves... he shoots a higher percentage on catch and shoots anyway... felt we didn't get into many fast break plays... Houston with Harden at PG kept attacking and attacking the basket.. like their offense and bench depth.. which allows them to play that way... also they have plenty of vets.

Still have a concern with our bench.. think we need more fire power and defense... Sasha shouldn't be on this team... Lance Stephenson should've been instead... or another two way PF/C.. a bench of:

Kuz
LThomas
Willy/O'Quinn
Stephenson
Jennings

Would have been better...

The way we are currently setup.. looks like Holiday, Kuz and Willy are going to get minutes... not feeling that great about that... hopefully they prove me wrong..

well just my opinion...
CJackson
General Manager
Posts: 9,584
And1: 5,221
Joined: Mar 05, 2016

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#510 » by CJackson » Thu Oct 6, 2016 9:07 pm

KnicksGod wrote:It's a HUGE but often missed idea in ANY discussion of a player's BBIQ. Not just whether he passes but when he takes his shots -- in rhythm in a way that keeps defenses honest and sets up your team to beat the other team later in the game, or just in a way that is kind of a one-off. It's not just whether you pass or shoot, but when you shoot, and whether it's off ball and body movement in a smarter way.

Melo is not a low IQ player but he's not a high IQ player. Regular IQ players who shoot a lot are good to have, and it's better than not having the scoring usually. But it's something to keep an eye on and manage.


Yep. There are guys who think saying Melo is of average intelligence is some kind of slander when it is a legit statement based on his too often mediocre judgment on the court. We all know he CAN pass well and play IN RHYTHM, but the amount of times when he needlessly plays inside a bubble of his own making balances out the more intelligent playmaking he is capable of.

The real point is he has the kind of squad he was begging for and now that he has got it does he adapt and play more selflessly or does he still play the same way?

Considering all of the flapdoodle and mumblemush spoken by the players and Melo in the off-season about this great new beginning it is perfectly natural for some of us to expect him to set the proper tone out of the gate. THAT'S CALLED LEADERSHIP. Melo is an average leader at best just like his brain.

Call out the riot cops now. The Melo police are coming.
User avatar
dakomish23
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 58,764
And1: 48,735
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#511 » by dakomish23 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 11:02 pm

CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:It's a HUGE but often missed idea in ANY discussion of a player's BBIQ. Not just whether he passes but when he takes his shots -- in rhythm in a way that keeps defenses honest and sets up your team to beat the other team later in the game, or just in a way that is kind of a one-off. It's not just whether you pass or shoot, but when you shoot, and whether it's off ball and body movement in a smarter way.

Melo is not a low IQ player but he's not a high IQ player. Regular IQ players who shoot a lot are good to have, and it's better than not having the scoring usually. But it's something to keep an eye on and manage.


Yep. There are guys who think saying Melo is of average intelligence is some kind of slander when it is a legit statement based on his too often mediocre judgment on the court. We all know he CAN pass well and play IN RHYTHM, but the amount of times when he needlessly plays inside a bubble of his own making balances out the more intelligent playmaking he is capable of.

The real point is he has the kind of squad he was begging for and now that he has got it does he adapt and play more selflessly or does he still play the same way?

Considering all of the flapdoodle and mumblemush spoken by the players and Melo in the off-season about this great new beginning it is perfectly natural for some of us to expect him to set the proper tone out of the gate. THAT'S CALLED LEADERSHIP. Melo is an average leader at best just like his brain.

Call out the riot cops now. The Melo police are coming.


It's not that the IQ comment is slander. It's that the IQ comment is false.

There's a huge difference between having the ability to be a high IQ player but being selfish at times versus not having the ability at all.

No one has or ever will confuse Melo for always playing like a high IQ player. These blanket statements are made by folks who have an anti Melo agenda for years. We have a ton of evidence to the contrary, but after he has a bad game, that evidence doesn't exist.

I'm a Melo supporter. I said he had a crappy game and forced the issue. I also know that won't be the case most of the season.

Why is ok to ignore the overwhelming mountain of evidence and have the soapbox squadron have a field day but if you defend the one constant good player we've had for 5 years it's the Melo police?

I never understood the emotional seesaw some folks have seemed to always have with our stars.
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


#FreeJimmit
Rotten Apple
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jun 25, 2016
     

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#512 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Oct 6, 2016 11:05 pm

Love how everything is a back handed compliment with Melo.
Rotten Apple
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jun 25, 2016
     

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#513 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Oct 6, 2016 11:06 pm

Still can't believe after 1 preseason game we've gone this far :lol:
CJackson
General Manager
Posts: 9,584
And1: 5,221
Joined: Mar 05, 2016

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#514 » by CJackson » Thu Oct 6, 2016 11:11 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:It's a HUGE but often missed idea in ANY discussion of a player's BBIQ. Not just whether he passes but when he takes his shots -- in rhythm in a way that keeps defenses honest and sets up your team to beat the other team later in the game, or just in a way that is kind of a one-off. It's not just whether you pass or shoot, but when you shoot, and whether it's off ball and body movement in a smarter way.

Melo is not a low IQ player but he's not a high IQ player. Regular IQ players who shoot a lot are good to have, and it's better than not having the scoring usually. But it's something to keep an eye on and manage.


Yep. There are guys who think saying Melo is of average intelligence is some kind of slander when it is a legit statement based on his too often mediocre judgment on the court. We all know he CAN pass well and play IN RHYTHM, but the amount of times when he needlessly plays inside a bubble of his own making balances out the more intelligent playmaking he is capable of.

The real point is he has the kind of squad he was begging for and now that he has got it does he adapt and play more selflessly or does he still play the same way?

Considering all of the flapdoodle and mumblemush spoken by the players and Melo in the off-season about this great new beginning it is perfectly natural for some of us to expect him to set the proper tone out of the gate. THAT'S CALLED LEADERSHIP. Melo is an average leader at best just like his brain.

Call out the riot cops now. The Melo police are coming.


It's not that the IQ comment is slander. It's that the IQ comment is false.

There's a huge difference between having the ability to be a high IQ player but being selfish at times versus not having the ability at all.

No one has or ever will confuse Melo for always playing like a high IQ player. These blanket statements are made by folks who have an anti Melo agenda for years. We have a ton of evidence to the contrary, but after he has a bad game, that evidence doesn't exist.

I'm a Melo supporter. I said he had a crappy game and forced the issue. I also know that won't be the case most of the season.

Why is ok to ignore the overwhelming mountain of evidence and have the soapbox squadron have a field day but if you defend the one constant good player we've had for 5 years it's the Melo police?

I never understood the emotional seesaw some folks have seemed to always have with our stars.


There is no see-saw here. As you may have noticed, I and plenty of others gave Melo an enormous amount of slack by accounting for a lack of supporting cast thus perhaps justifying his higher usage rate and volume shooting.

And you also see that I explained EXACTLY why I might have an eagle eye on how he adapts to a new roster that gives him ample support even from the very first pre-season game, because I personally do EXPECT MORE from him, not less. I expect him to lead by example from the very first game. So I'm putting him a higher standard and not accepting mediocrity. He CAN be a superior teammate as shown by his actions on the floor (not his words), but I have reasons to doubt his ability to be consistently aware of his new context. So I will put his feet to the fire precisely because I expect him to lead by example.

You can't have it both ways. Either you hold someone to a higher standard or you don't. Some guys always want Melo treated like a pet when he should be treated as the one who is expected to do more and be more because that is what he is here for and what he is paid for.

And, no, Melo has not been a constant in terms of greatness for 5 years. He's been good at doing Melo, but now we'll see if he is good at being an A-Level ball player for real and not just a scorer who gets tunnel vision at the wrong times.
Rotten Apple
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jun 25, 2016
     

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#515 » by Rotten Apple » Fri Oct 7, 2016 12:09 am

dakomish23 wrote:
CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:It's a HUGE but often missed idea in ANY discussion of a player's BBIQ. Not just whether he passes but when he takes his shots -- in rhythm in a way that keeps defenses honest and sets up your team to beat the other team later in the game, or just in a way that is kind of a one-off. It's not just whether you pass or shoot, but when you shoot, and whether it's off ball and body movement in a smarter way.

Melo is not a low IQ player but he's not a high IQ player. Regular IQ players who shoot a lot are good to have, and it's better than not having the scoring usually. But it's something to keep an eye on and manage.


Yep. There are guys who think saying Melo is of average intelligence is some kind of slander when it is a legit statement based on his too often mediocre judgment on the court. We all know he CAN pass well and play IN RHYTHM, but the amount of times when he needlessly plays inside a bubble of his own making balances out the more intelligent playmaking he is capable of.

The real point is he has the kind of squad he was begging for and now that he has got it does he adapt and play more selflessly or does he still play the same way?

Considering all of the flapdoodle and mumblemush spoken by the players and Melo in the off-season about this great new beginning it is perfectly natural for some of us to expect him to set the proper tone out of the gate. THAT'S CALLED LEADERSHIP. Melo is an average leader at best just like his brain.

Call out the riot cops now. The Melo police are coming.


It's not that the IQ comment is slander. It's that the IQ comment is false.

There's a huge difference between having the ability to be a high IQ player but being selfish at times versus not having the ability at all.

No one has or ever will confuse Melo for always playing like a high IQ player. These blanket statements are made by folks who have an anti Melo agenda for years. We have a ton of evidence to the contrary, but after he has a bad game, that evidence doesn't exist.

I'm a Melo supporter. I said he had a crappy game and forced the issue. I also know that won't be the case most of the season.

Why is ok to ignore the overwhelming mountain of evidence and have the soapbox squadron have a field day but if you defend the one constant good player we've had for 5 years it's the Melo police?

I never understood the emotional seesaw some folks have seemed to always have with our stars.


Perfect post right here, absolutely brilliant.
Carl_Karlson
Head Coach
Posts: 6,813
And1: 3,164
Joined: Dec 18, 2014
     

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#516 » by Carl_Karlson » Fri Oct 7, 2016 12:30 am

I'll let you finish in a minute, but it's a good f*cking thing we have our pick
WTF Post of 2017:

If Phil pulled that off, I would put a put a paper bag over my head, paste a picture of Jeannie on it, poke a hole through the mouth, and give Phil the best BJ he's ever had in his entire life.[/quote]
User avatar
AmazingJason
RealGM
Posts: 15,179
And1: 6,142
Joined: Aug 07, 2006
Location: NYC
   

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#517 » by AmazingJason » Fri Oct 7, 2016 12:31 am

CJackson wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
CJackson wrote:
Yep. There are guys who think saying Melo is of average intelligence is some kind of slander when it is a legit statement based on his too often mediocre judgment on the court. We all know he CAN pass well and play IN RHYTHM, but the amount of times when he needlessly plays inside a bubble of his own making balances out the more intelligent playmaking he is capable of.

The real point is he has the kind of squad he was begging for and now that he has got it does he adapt and play more selflessly or does he still play the same way?

Considering all of the flapdoodle and mumblemush spoken by the players and Melo in the off-season about this great new beginning it is perfectly natural for some of us to expect him to set the proper tone out of the gate. THAT'S CALLED LEADERSHIP. Melo is an average leader at best just like his brain.

Call out the riot cops now. The Melo police are coming.


It's not that the IQ comment is slander. It's that the IQ comment is false.

There's a huge difference between having the ability to be a high IQ player but being selfish at times versus not having the ability at all.

No one has or ever will confuse Melo for always playing like a high IQ player. These blanket statements are made by folks who have an anti Melo agenda for years. We have a ton of evidence to the contrary, but after he has a bad game, that evidence doesn't exist.

I'm a Melo supporter. I said he had a crappy game and forced the issue. I also know that won't be the case most of the season.

Why is ok to ignore the overwhelming mountain of evidence and have the soapbox squadron have a field day but if you defend the one constant good player we've had for 5 years it's the Melo police?

I never understood the emotional seesaw some folks have seemed to always have with our stars.


There is no see-saw here. As you may have noticed, I and plenty of others gave Melo an enormous amount of slack by accounting for a lack of supporting cast thus perhaps justifying his higher usage rate and volume shooting.

And you also see that I explained EXACTLY why I might have an eagle eye on how he adapts to a new roster that gives him ample support even from the very first pre-season game, because I personally do EXPECT MORE from him, not less. I expect him to lead by example from the very first game. So I'm putting him a higher standard and not accepting mediocrity. He CAN be a superior teammate as shown by his actions on the floor (not his words), but I have reasons to doubt his ability to be consistently aware of his new context. So I will put his feet to the fire precisely because I expect him to lead by example.

You can't have it both ways. Either you hold someone to a higher standard or you don't. Some guys always want Melo treated like a pet when he should be treated as the one who is expected to do more and be more because that is what he is here for and what he is paid for.

And, no, Melo has not been a constant in terms of greatness for 5 years. He's been good at doing Melo, but now we'll see if he is good at being an A-Level ball player for real and not just a scorer who gets tunnel vision at the wrong times.


TBH, I didn't necessarily think Melo's ISOs were bad IQ plays. He sees Ryan Anderson, a slow white guy he can blow by. He sees Corey Brewer, a guy who weighs 180 lbs soaking wet and he can bully. Then there's Sam Dekker, and that's like facing Ron Baker in training camp. Throughout his career, he has DOMINATED these scrubs. It's just that I think we're at the juncture at which I think Melo's body is starting to betray him. Normally, I'd give him a pass since it's the 1st preseason game, but he just played in the Olympics in the summer so he should be ready to go. You could see it some of it last year...the first step was there most of the time, but only when he dug in...and his lift at the rim was mediocre. Last night, it was even worse, and he was getting his shots thrown back like he was a D-Leaguer.

xNewYorkMadex made the best analogy. Paul Pierce was once known as a lower efficiency black hole just like Melo. But Doc pulled him aside and told him they needed him to work on becoming a great 3-point shooter, in catch-and-shoots and spot-ups. The rest is history. Pierce transformed himself into someone who wasn't just great at basketball...but great at team basketball.

This is not me saying that Melo should just abandon ISO's. The fact is we'll always need his entire offensive repertoire for a variety of situations. My hope is that with he starts doing more of the efficient things and less of the inefficient things as he meshes with his talented supporting cast. He did more of it in the first half of last season, but old habits die hard.
BAT 18.0 - MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES

El Poochio - POBO
Amazing Jason - Assistant to the VPOBO

PG: Lonzo Ball/Dennis Smith Jr.
SG: Donovan Mitchell/R. McGruder
SF: Jaylen Brown/Josh Jackson
PF: Jayson Tatum/T. Booker
C: Joel Embiid/McGee
Rotten Apple
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jun 25, 2016
     

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#518 » by Rotten Apple » Fri Oct 7, 2016 12:50 am

AmazingJason wrote:
CJackson wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
It's not that the IQ comment is slander. It's that the IQ comment is false.

There's a huge difference between having the ability to be a high IQ player but being selfish at times versus not having the ability at all.

No one has or ever will confuse Melo for always playing like a high IQ player. These blanket statements are made by folks who have an anti Melo agenda for years. We have a ton of evidence to the contrary, but after he has a bad game, that evidence doesn't exist.

I'm a Melo supporter. I said he had a crappy game and forced the issue. I also know that won't be the case most of the season.

Why is ok to ignore the overwhelming mountain of evidence and have the soapbox squadron have a field day but if you defend the one constant good player we've had for 5 years it's the Melo police?

I never understood the emotional seesaw some folks have seemed to always have with our stars.


There is no see-saw here. As you may have noticed, I and plenty of others gave Melo an enormous amount of slack by accounting for a lack of supporting cast thus perhaps justifying his higher usage rate and volume shooting.

And you also see that I explained EXACTLY why I might have an eagle eye on how he adapts to a new roster that gives him ample support even from the very first pre-season game, because I personally do EXPECT MORE from him, not less. I expect him to lead by example from the very first game. So I'm putting him a higher standard and not accepting mediocrity. He CAN be a superior teammate as shown by his actions on the floor (not his words), but I have reasons to doubt his ability to be consistently aware of his new context. So I will put his feet to the fire precisely because I expect him to lead by example.

You can't have it both ways. Either you hold someone to a higher standard or you don't. Some guys always want Melo treated like a pet when he should be treated as the one who is expected to do more and be more because that is what he is here for and what he is paid for.

And, no, Melo has not been a constant in terms of greatness for 5 years. He's been good at doing Melo, but now we'll see if he is good at being an A-Level ball player for real and not just a scorer who gets tunnel vision at the wrong times.


TBH, I didn't necessarily think Melo's ISOs were bad IQ plays. He sees Ryan Anderson, a slow white guy he can blow by. He sees Corey Brewer, a guy who weighs 180 lbs soaking wet and he can bully. Then there's Sam Dekker, and that's like facing Ron Baker in training camp. Throughout his career, he has DOMINATED these scrubs. It's just that I think we're at the juncture at which I think Melo's body is starting to betray him. Normally, I'd give him a pass since it's the 1st preseason game, but he just played in the Olympics in the summer so he should be ready to go. You could see it some of it last year...the first step was there most of the time, but only when he dug in...and his lift at the rim was mediocre. Last night, it was even worse, and he was getting his shots thrown back like he was a D-Leaguer.

xNewYorkMadex made the best analogy. Paul Pierce was once known as a lower efficiency black hole just like Melo. But Doc pulled him aside and told him they needed him to work on becoming a great 3-point shooter, in catch-and-shoots and spot-ups. The rest is history. Pierce transformed himself into someone who wasn't just great at basketball...but great at team basketball.

This is not me saying that Melo should just abandon ISO's. The fact is we'll always need his entire offensive repertoire for a variety of situations. My hope is that with he starts doing more of the efficient things and less of the inefficient things as he meshes with his talented supporting cast. He did more of it in the first half of last season, but old habits die hard.


Melo overthinks on the court at times and that is probably my biggest gripe with him. There are times where he just catches it and goes or drives and finds a shooter or big for a dump off. And also times where he drives and goes up strong like against Atlanta when he blew by Sefolosha and had probably the last big dunk from him I remember. When he's just reacting his so much better.

However there's times he's stuck anticipating things like contact at the rim and he miss times his gather and that leads to him getting no lift. He's strong enough to attack the rim and finish through contact but now with the vertical rule like Hornacek said its been more difficult for him to finish.

Again though it's just a preseason game and little of what we see is worth building a case on.
stopstandthere
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,440
And1: 738
Joined: Feb 10, 2015
 

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#519 » by stopstandthere » Fri Oct 7, 2016 1:14 am

Pre-season game.

So the Sixers will be champion?
CJackson
General Manager
Posts: 9,584
And1: 5,221
Joined: Mar 05, 2016

Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#520 » by CJackson » Fri Oct 7, 2016 1:17 am

AmazingJason wrote:
CJackson wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
It's not that the IQ comment is slander. It's that the IQ comment is false.

There's a huge difference between having the ability to be a high IQ player but being selfish at times versus not having the ability at all.

No one has or ever will confuse Melo for always playing like a high IQ player. These blanket statements are made by folks who have an anti Melo agenda for years. We have a ton of evidence to the contrary, but after he has a bad game, that evidence doesn't exist.

I'm a Melo supporter. I said he had a crappy game and forced the issue. I also know that won't be the case most of the season.

Why is ok to ignore the overwhelming mountain of evidence and have the soapbox squadron have a field day but if you defend the one constant good player we've had for 5 years it's the Melo police?

I never understood the emotional seesaw some folks have seemed to always have with our stars.


There is no see-saw here. As you may have noticed, I and plenty of others gave Melo an enormous amount of slack by accounting for a lack of supporting cast thus perhaps justifying his higher usage rate and volume shooting.

And you also see that I explained EXACTLY why I might have an eagle eye on how he adapts to a new roster that gives him ample support even from the very first pre-season game, because I personally do EXPECT MORE from him, not less. I expect him to lead by example from the very first game. So I'm putting him a higher standard and not accepting mediocrity. He CAN be a superior teammate as shown by his actions on the floor (not his words), but I have reasons to doubt his ability to be consistently aware of his new context. So I will put his feet to the fire precisely because I expect him to lead by example.

You can't have it both ways. Either you hold someone to a higher standard or you don't. Some guys always want Melo treated like a pet when he should be treated as the one who is expected to do more and be more because that is what he is here for and what he is paid for.

And, no, Melo has not been a constant in terms of greatness for 5 years. He's been good at doing Melo, but now we'll see if he is good at being an A-Level ball player for real and not just a scorer who gets tunnel vision at the wrong times.


TBH, I didn't necessarily think Melo's ISOs were bad IQ plays. He sees Ryan Anderson, a slow white guy he can blow by. He sees Corey Brewer, a guy who weighs 180 lbs soaking wet and he can bully. Then there's Sam Dekker, and that's like facing Ron Baker in training camp. Throughout his career, he has DOMINATED these scrubs. It's just that I think we're at the juncture at which I think Melo's body is starting to betray him. Normally, I'd give him a pass since it's the 1st preseason game, but he just played in the Olympics in the summer so he should be ready to go. You could see it some of it last year...the first step was there most of the time, but only when he dug in...and his lift at the rim was mediocre. Last night, it was even worse, and he was getting his shots thrown back like he was a D-Leaguer.

xNewYorkMadex made the best analogy. Paul Pierce was once known as a lower efficiency black hole just like Melo. But Doc pulled him aside and told him they needed him to work on becoming a great 3-point shooter, in catch-and-shoots and spot-ups. The rest is history. Pierce transformed himself into someone who wasn't just great at basketball...but great at team basketball.

This is not me saying that Melo should just abandon ISO's. The fact is we'll always need his entire offensive repertoire for a variety of situations. My hope is that with he starts doing more of the efficient things and less of the inefficient things as he meshes with his talented supporting cast. He did more of it in the first half of last season, but old habits die hard.


Agreed. Perhaps Phil can get through to him. They addressed it in the press conference so Melo making adjustments is clearly on the organization's wishlist.

Return to New York Knicks