2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - The Preseason Strikes Back

[Orlwillbeback]

Well, most of your problems with Hennigan has to do with the moves he made, right?

I'm saying in an ideal world, the roster would make more sense to you if the Magic got what they wanted.. which doesn't always happen. Once Porzingis was taken then we had to do a series of moves that lead to the Oladipo deal, including one move that has Skiles handprints all over it.

I'm only debating you on Payton / Saric being the worst deal. It's entirely too premature to say that. There is physical evidence of Ilya/BJ being gone from the team as is Ayon, which are two trades that I think we could've gotten better value return wise. We gave up more than we usually would for Payton, but at least he holds value to us.

Ohh we HAD to make the moves we did after Porzingis was taken in the 2015 draft?

Why is that?

Why did we have HAVE to make the moves we did since then?

Earlier you even state we were FORCED to make the moves we did after Porzingis taken?

Did someone someone put a gun to Rob's head and make him do what he did?

You are still largely basing this opinion of yours on videos and Hennigan's reported comments from the media. That inherently is flawed.

The Magic were not forced to make any of these moves, we made them because I believe Hennigan over relies on the draft because other gms do not see him on an equal footing when discussing trades or in free agency.

[fendilim]

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/elfrid-payton/show-improved-denton-20161009

Elf is about to prove a lot of people on this board wrong this year. Amazing how quick some are to write off a 22 year old who was considered a future star after his rookie season but was stuck in a system that didn't suit his strengths. Vogel is one of the best at instilling confidence in his players which is what I feel was missing from Elf last year. Can't wait to see him this year.

heard that last yr too.

Heard what?

That he'll be better

[MagicStarwipe]

heard that last yr too.

Heard what?

That he'll be better

He did shoot better last season. Improving as a shooter is a gradual process though. It doesn't happen all at once. If you're talking overall play, I think only the haters wouldn't agree that he had quite a few hurdles in his way last season.

[Blue_and_Whte]

heard that last yr too.

Heard what?

That he'll be better

Skiles was holding him back....ON PURPOSE .....Cuz he's jealous.



Nah but I hope Elf proves me wrong. He didnt have any damn hurdles people stop making up excuses and nobody here hates Payton, he's not good enough to have haters.

[Def Swami]

Well, most of your problems with Hennigan has to do with the moves he made, right?

I'm saying in an ideal world, the roster would make more sense to you if the Magic got what they wanted.. which doesn't always happen. Once Porzingis was taken then we had to do a series of moves that lead to the Oladipo deal, including one move that has Skiles handprints all over it.

I'm only debating you on Payton / Saric being the worst deal. It's entirely too premature to say that. There is physical evidence of Ilya/BJ being gone from the team as is Ayon, which are two trades that I think we could've gotten better value return wise. We gave up more than we usually would for Payton, but at least he holds value to us.

Ohh we HAD to make the moves we did after Porzingis was taken in the 2015 draft?

Why is that?

Why did we have HAVE to make the moves we did since then?

Earlier you even state we were FORCED to make the moves we did after Porzingis taken?

Did someone someone put a gun to Rob's head and make him do what he did?

You are still largely basing this opinion of yours on videos and Hennigan's reported comments from the media. That inherently is flawed.

The Magic were not forced to make any of these moves, we made them because I believe Hennigan over relies on the draft because other gms do not see him on an equal footing when discussing trades or in free agency.

Is that how that works?

[Orlwillbeback]

Well, most of your problems with Hennigan has to do with the moves he made, right?

I'm saying in an ideal world, the roster would make more sense to you if the Magic got what they wanted.. which doesn't always happen. Once Porzingis was taken then we had to do a series of moves that lead to the Oladipo deal, including one move that has Skiles handprints all over it.

I'm only debating you on Payton / Saric being the worst deal. It's entirely too premature to say that. There is physical evidence of Ilya/BJ being gone from the team as is Ayon, which are two trades that I think we could've gotten better value return wise. We gave up more than we usually would for Payton, but at least he holds value to us.

Ohh we HAD to make the moves we did after Porzingis was taken in the 2015 draft?

Why is that?

Why did we have HAVE to make the moves we did since then?

Earlier you even state we were FORCED to make the moves we did after Porzingis taken?

Did someone someone put a gun to Rob's head and make him do what he did?

You are still largely basing this opinion of yours on videos and Hennigan's reported comments from the media. That inherently is flawed.

The Magic were not forced to make any of these moves, we made them because I believe Hennigan over relies on the draft because other gms do not see him on an equal footing when discussing trades or in free agency.

Is that how that works?

Is that any less plausible than what Soul is suggesting? That we were FORCED to make the moves we did?

[Gomagic44]

heard that last yr too.

Heard what?

That he'll be better

I can answer this one. We've heard "elf is gonna prove y'all wrong this season". He didn't prove anyone wrong last season.

The trade that I don't get is anderson for ayon. Anderson wouldn't have won us a lot of games but he had more value than that.


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[MagicFan101]

I am not sure there's a big plan I would have followed, You just need to try to maximize your value at every step of the way.

I would have kept Oladipo and Ilyasova and tried real hard to acquire Teague, hopefully signing him long term. I would then start Mario and Gordon at the four and then find a true defensive big, hopefully one more proven than BB.

This is the absolute worst advice for any franchise or business. Ups and downs are inevitable. The whole is not a direct sum of its parts but rather a well thought out strategy.

[PennytoShaq]

I am not sure there's a big plan I would have followed, You just need to try to maximize your value at every step of the way.

I would have kept Oladipo and Ilyasova and tried real hard to acquire Teague, hopefully signing him long term. I would then start Mario and Gordon at the four and then find a true defensive big, hopefully one more proven than BB.

Oh you would have "tried real hard" to get Teague and then found a mystery true defensive big who doesn't exist. That's a sound plan.

It's not Bogut. He is not healthy enough to be a full time player for us. So who then?

Bizmack lead the NBA in blocks and has a very high ceiling under Vogel as a defensive C.

Mario and Gordon can still start together one day because we have Biz here.

Funny enough those last two guys you want to start were a direct result of a draft rebuild, the same thing you just said you were opposed to. Now you want to start the guys we drafted, but you are against the strategy of acquiring them. I guess you would use some sort of sorcery to acquire Gordon and Mario instead?

What would you have done?

Draft rebuild. Like every single other team does. The Lakers even went that route. You are essentially complaining that we didn't get lucky enough with the way the balls dropped and we all agree with that. But it's not Rob's fault. He took the right approach to the rebuild because now we have cap flexibility and some young assets to build a team around.

[tiderulz]

Heard what?

That he'll be better

Skiles was holding him back....ON PURPOSE .....Cuz he's jealous.



Nah but I hope Elf proves me wrong. He didnt have any damn hurdles people stop making up excuses and nobody here hates Payton, he's not good enough to have haters.

he did have injuries. I would consider those hurdles

[Orlwillbeback]

You cant overinvest yourselves in just one avenue during the rebuild, I would have preferred getting players that are ready to go through trades and free agency rather than this kindergarten service we've been running.

[Tayswagzzz]

Eh we were a single pick away from getting a franchise player in Porzingis. I love Hezonja here and think he'll be a great player, but Porzingis would have been BPA & best fit. Porzingis would have definitely accelerated our path to playoffs.

The lottery hasn't been so kind to us this rebuild. Oladipo was one of our best picks and he's gone. Aaron Gordon & Elfrid Payton are next on the block to prove themselves or management is just going to trade them for vets. Vicious cycle.

[Tayswagzzz]

You cant overinvest yourselves in just one avenue during the rebuild, I would have preferred getting players that are ready to go through trades and free agency rather than this kindergarten service we've been running.

To be fair we didn't just rebuild through the draft. We got a gem in Harris, and a gem in Fournier for not a whole lot.

The Harris trade hurt us more than most think, we literally got NOTHING for a quality young starting SF/PF. Not even a future draft pick. In the end it was just a salary dump, and Harris was 100% worth more than a salary dump.

[MagicStarwipe]

Heard what?

That he'll be better

I can answer this one. We've heard "elf is gonna prove y'all wrong this season". He didn't prove anyone wrong last season.

Prove us wrong? How? You mean after most of the board had him pegged as our superstar after his first season? you all are so fickle. I'm going to gloat so much when i'm right.

[Tayswagzzz]

That he'll be better

I can answer this one. We've heard "elf is gonna prove y'all wrong this season". He didn't prove anyone wrong last season.

Prove us wrong? How? You mean after most of the board had him pegged as our superstar after his first season? you all are so fickle. I'm going to gloat so much when i'm right.

No doubt Payton showed a ton of promise his rookie season.

But he isn't wrong, he didn't prove anyone wrong last season. I don't think it's a knock on Payton, it's just the truth. Let's hope he has a huge season now.

[PennytoShaq]

You cant overinvest yourselves in just one avenue during the rebuild, I would have preferred getting players that are ready to go through trades and free agency rather than this kindergarten service we've been running.

I'm sure you would have, but as previously illustrated, it doesn't work that way anymore. Every single team, even the biggest players in free agency like the Lakers have to rebuild through the draft now. It's just how the NBA is.

[Orlwillbeback]

You cant overinvest yourselves in just one avenue during the rebuild, I would have preferred getting players that are ready to go through trades and free agency rather than this kindergarten service we've been running.

I'm sure you would have, but as previously illustrated, it doesn't work that way anymore. Every single team, even the biggest players in free agency like the Lakers have to rebuild through the draft now. It's just how the NBA is.

That not what Portland and Boston did.

[Orlwillbeback]

You cant overinvest yourselves in just one avenue during the rebuild, I would have preferred getting players that are ready to go through trades and free agency rather than this kindergarten service we've been running.

I'm sure you would have, but as previously illustrated, it doesn't work that way anymore. Every single team, even the biggest players in free agency like the Lakers have to rebuild through the draft now. It's just how the NBA is.

That not what Portland and Boston did.

[PennytoShaq]

You cant overinvest yourselves in just one avenue during the rebuild, I would have preferred getting players that are ready to go through trades and free agency rather than this kindergarten service we've been running.

I'm sure you would have, but as previously illustrated, it doesn't work that way anymore. Every single team, even the biggest players in free agency like the Lakers have to rebuild through the draft now. It's just how the NBA is.

That not what Portland and Boston did.

How did they get Lillard and Mccollum then?

And Boston has not done anything different than us besides grabbing an up and coming coach earlier in the game than we did. You can thank Alex Martins for Skiles. Rob wouldn't have hired him.

[mojosodope]

You cant overinvest yourselves in just one avenue during the rebuild, I would have preferred getting players that are ready to go through trades and free agency rather than this kindergarten service we've been running.

To be fair we didn't just rebuild through the draft. We got a gem in Harris, and a gem in Fournier for not a whole lot.

The Harris trade hurt us more than most think, we literally got NOTHING for a quality young starting SF/PF. Not even a future draft pick. In the end it was just a salary dump, and Harris was 100% worth more than a salary dump.

He was, but the trade was bigger than that.

It was Hennigan teaching Skilles a lesson for talking through the press and questioning the makeup of the team. "oh you need vets? Here are two vets you are more than familiar with...your former players"

The trade served as the catalyst the beginning of the end of Skilles' time in Orlando. More importantly for Hennigan, it served as a way to shift the blame and get back the year of rebuild he lost under a coach he didn't really want to hire.