Harrison Barnes

[dc]

I think you guys are underestimating him a little. Is he a dominant player? Of course not, but it's not like the guy sucks. I think it's going to take a little bit of time for Carlisle to figure out what he does best. Once he does though we will all see a productive player. At very least as productive as Josh Howard.

Perhaps, but this guy isn't really some mystery. He's a known quantity. He's been in the league 4 years and has been a starter for 75% of that time. It's not a Jermaine O'neal situation where he was 17 years old coming into he league and sitting behind Brian Grant and Rasheed Wallace and you really didn't know what you had.

The Warriors tried anything and everything to get him rolling. It'd be a mistake to think they just put him on the backburner as an afterthought. That's not the case at all. They knew in the playoffs that teams would double Steph and Klay at all times and they needed a legit 3rd option. They pushed for Barnes to be that guy and waited for him to develop into that role. A consistent 15ppg guy. It just didn't happen.

As I've said, it's going to take a flip of the switch in his head for that to happen. Don't know if it will, but that's what needs to happen, because it won't be for lack of opportunity or the coach not knowing what to do with him.

Maybe it happens but I don't know. I'd just hold back expectations because there just haven't been many individual Year 4 -Year 5 explosions that have happened in this league.

[Mr B]

I think you guys are underestimating him a little. Is he a dominant player? Of course not, but it's not like the guy sucks. I think it's going to take a little bit of time for Carlisle to figure out what he does best. Once he does though we will all see a productive player. At very least as productive as Josh Howard.

Perhaps, but this guy isn't really some mystery. He's a known quantity. He's been in the league 4 years and has been a starter for 75% of that time. It's not a Jermaine O'neal situation where he was 17 years old coming into he league and sitting behind Brian Grant and Rasheed Wallace and you really didn't know what you had.

The Warriors tried anything and everything to get him rolling. It'd be a mistake to think they just put him on the backburner as an afterthought. That's not the case at all. They knew in the playoffs that teams would double Steph and Klay at all times and they needed a legit 3rd option. They pushed for Barnes to be that guy and waited for him to develop into that role. A consistent 15ppg guy. It just didn't happen.

As I've said, it's going to take a flip of the switch in his head for that to happen. Don't know if it will, but that's what needs to happen, because it won't be for lack of opportunity or the coach not knowing what to do with him.

Maybe it happens but I don't know. I'd just hold back expectations because there just haven't been many individual Year 4 -Year 5 explosions that have happened in this league.

Yea but it's also not like he's been the focal point of the offense his first 4 years either. He was a starter but he was at best the 4th option on that team. He was basically used as a spot up shooter in that offense. I would really like to see him develop a back to the basket game. Take advantage of his size against some of the skinnier SF's. He's going to have every opportunity to be the main scoring option here if his game can develop. If there is one guy that I think could get it out of him it's Carlisle.

[SF_Warriors]

As a warriors fan, I have watched basically every game since barnes has been in the league, and have been waiting for any consistent sign of him being a go to scorer or high level starter, and I just never saw it.
If he was capable of being a 2nd 3rd player on a contending team, draymond green wouldnt have outproduced him. Its not like everyone thought draymond would be a better offensive player, we all thought barnes would be.

It will be a very interesting season to see how he can perform where a bigger role is needed from him. Rooting for him to do well.

[dc]

Yea but it's also not like he's been the focal point of the offense his first 4 years either. He was a starter but he was at best the 4th option on that team. He was basically used as a spot up shooter in that offense. I would really like to see him develop a back to the basket game. Take advantage of his size against some of the skinnier SF's. He's going to have every opportunity to be the main scoring option here if his game can develop. If there is one guy that I think could get it out of him it's Carlisle.

Carlisle is definitely one of the best coaches in the league, but Kerr is pretty good in his own right. Kerr tried to get Barnes on track and involved. Remember, it was Kerr who inserted Barnes back into the starting lineup after Mark Jackson had him come off the bench for his entire sophomore season.

I know people constantly point out how he was the 4th option, that he wasn't the focal point or that he wasn't utilized to his fullest or whatever, but this is being exaggerated. The Warriors PUSHED HARD for him to become the undisputed 3rd option. It wasn't a case where it was just Steph and Klay taking all the shots and Barnes just got what was left over. They actively looked to get him more involved. He just didn't turn out to be the guy on offense they hoped he could be.

Remember, they tanked half a season and then had to win a coin flip in order to keep the pick that they used to draft Barnes. He came in with higher cachet than both Klay and Draymond. As mentioned above, nobody would've ever imagined that Draymond (a complete non-scorer coming into the league) would eventually outproduce Barnes.

Remember: The coaching staff never created a role for Draymond, but that didn't exactly keep him down. He created the role (that he has now) HIMSELF. Barnes needs to adopt that same attitude. (FWIW, I see the same go getter attitude from Justin Anderson. Just never saw it with Barnes).

[mavonamission]

Yea but it's also not like he's been the focal point of the offense his first 4 years either. He was a starter but he was at best the 4th option on that team. He was basically used as a spot up shooter in that offense. I would really like to see him develop a back to the basket game. Take advantage of his size against some of the skinnier SF's. He's going to have every opportunity to be the main scoring option here if his game can develop. If there is one guy that I think could get it out of him it's Carlisle.

Carlisle is definitely one of the best coaches in the league, but Kerr is pretty good in his own right. Kerr tried to get Barnes on track and involved. Remember, it was Kerr who inserted Barnes back into the starting lineup after Mark Jackson had him come off the bench for his entire sophomore season.

I know people constantly point out how he was the 4th option, that he wasn't the focal point or that he wasn't utilized to his fullest or whatever, but this is being exaggerated. The Warriors PUSHED HARD for him to become the undisputed 3rd option. It wasn't a case where it was just Steph and Klay taking all the shots and Barnes just got what was left over. They actively looked to get him more involved. He just didn't turn out to be the guy on offense they hoped he could be.

Remember, they tanked half a season and then had to win a coin flip in order to keep the pick that they used to draft Barnes. He came in with higher cachet than both Klay and Draymond. As mentioned above, nobody would've ever imagined that Draymond (a complete non-scorer coming into the league) would eventually outproduce Barnes.

Remember: The coaching staff never created a role for Draymond, but that didn't exactly keep him down. He created the role (that he has now) HIMSELF. Barnes needs to adopt that same attitude. (FWIW, I see the same go getter attitude from Justin Anderson. Just never saw it with Barnes).

Good synopsis that I think sheds a lot of light us Mavs fan should take to heart. I am still on board with Barnes over parsons as I think the latter was a terrible fit next to Dirk and was soft as a puppy's fur, but he's surely not going to breakout into super stardom, I think and hope he will be better than what we have seen in GS, but I don't expect a Jimmy Butler/Kris Middleton type boom, I think that's being unrealistic.

[dc]

Good synopsis that I think sheds a lot of light us Mavs fan should take to heart. I am still on board with Barnes over parsons as I think the latter was a terrible fit next to Dirk and was soft as a puppy's fur, but he's surely not going to breakout into super stardom, I think and hope he will be better than what we have seen in GS, but I don't expect a Jimmy Butler/Kris Middleton type boom, I think that's being unrealistic.

I think choosing Barnes over the Parsons was the right choice, simply for the fact that he's younger and healthier. Though he's not a "shutdown" defender by any stretch, he defends better than Parsons and is pretty versatile on that end. So there's that too.

Would also add that for all the criticism he got and the cringing Warrior fans had before they eventually lucked into KD, the fact is the Warriors front office was more than ready to bring Barnes back at his asking price. They basically wouldn't have had a choice because they only had about $12M in cap space to play with (assuming they don't dump Bogut), which wasn't enough in this market to lure anyone else who would've been a sure bet to be at least as good. Had they not gotten KD, they would've had little choice but to bring the band back again (Bogut, Barnes and probably Ezeli).

Who knows? Maybe Carlisle and Dirk can get something out of him that Kerr, Steph/Klay/Dray couldn't. Maybe it's a system that's more conducive to him. That's not out of the question.

The only point I'm making is that Barnes time with the Warriors shouldn't be described as the team simply making him an afterthought on offense and intentionally relegating him to a small role. He had that role because that's what he showed to be capable of, not because anybody was holding him back. On the contrary, they tried very hard to feature him. But maybe there's some magic to be found with a change in scenery.

Just be realistic as to the amount of Year 4 - Year 5 individual improvement you see in the majority of players. Remember, Barnes got plenty of open shots with the W's. Essentially the logic is that you're hoping Barnes will do better with MORE usage and attention from opposing defenses but with LESS open looks. How often does a guy's efficiency/effectiveness increase when he gets less open looks?

So in terms of Barnes making "the leap", you're basically betting on something internally clicking for him and that he'll suddenly "get it" by making him a #2 option with far less of a safety net behind him.

[Texas Chuck]

Good synopsis that I think sheds a lot of light us Mavs fan should take to heart. I am still on board with Barnes over parsons as I think the latter was a terrible fit next to Dirk and was soft as a puppy's fur, but he's surely not going to breakout into super stardom, I think and hope he will be better than what we have seen in GS, but I don't expect a Jimmy Butler/Kris Middleton type boom, I think that's being unrealistic.

I think choosing Barnes over the Parsons was the right choice, simply for the fact that he's younger and healthier. Though he's not a "shutdown" defender by any stretch, he defends better than Parsons and is pretty versatile on that end. So there's that too.

On paper Barnes makes more sense than Parsons next to Dirk for sure. But Parsons and Dirk at the 4/5 last year once Rick went to it was just force of nature levels good offensively. Yeah the defense was porous as one would expect, but it was a clear winning combo for the Mavs with that duo playing up the lineup--teams just couldn't keep up on the scoreboard.

I won't lie that I would have preferred to keep Parsons over Barnes because I think he's the better player first and foremost and that this team needs his shooting, scoring, and shot creation. The days of Dirk in the high post for 30+ mpg are long gone, Deron is no longer a dominant offensive force either. Right now Barea is our best creator and as much as I am the founding and sole member of the Barea fan club, that's terrifying.

But I'm not that worried about Barnes. I don't expect him to be more than a 12-15 ppg guy and Rick Carlisle is great at getting guys shots they are comfortable with. And Barnes has been getting his shots in pre-season and just hasn't been making them. Sample size way too small for a guy with his track record for me to panic. He's going to be fine.

People just need to ignore his contract. That's done so judge him on his play not his money. Just like we had to do last year after giving Matthews that huge deal and Parsons the year before that. When you sign free agents you are going to overpay. That's a sunk cost and it shouldn't factor significantly into their evaluation as players any longer.

[Darren]

How long we're willing to tolerate his shooting slump? So is Jonathan Gibson's. I think Barnes should improve his percentage making layups. Better decision making doesn't hurt for both guys. While Gibson's clutch in this game, he should be a lot more aggressive. Kanter, Illyasova and Singer on court together mean "Welcome to the paint. Please dunk on me." Therefore, both guys should take advantage a little more.

Gibson's not a bad passer. But he's not as quick as he is expected. His pick-n-roll defense picks up where Roddy B's left. It's virtually non-existence. And he's not even defending like Monta Ellis. He can't guard players much bigger than his size. And taking charge is not in his arsenal. But what concerns me is his shooting percentage. He's entering an unusual shooting slump.

The small ball lineup could be a problem for us this season. We don't seem to be able to stop anyone. And we struggle a lot against stretch 4. We may see the best team in the preseason games - Houston Rockets. Ryan Anderson is red hot. And the Rockets play like they are better than Utah. We'll see how we respond.

But it seems to me that we're much better team benching either Matthews or Barnes in favor of a 2-PG lineup. Barea-D Will work fine. And I like the idea to include Curry as major combo guard off bench. Barnes seem to play better with Bogut. So I say we may bring Matthews off bench like this.

C - Andrew Bogut / Dwight Powell / Salah Mejri / AJ Hammons
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / Quincy Acy
SF - Harrison Barnes / Justin Anderson
SG - Jose Barea / Wes Matthews / Nicholas Brussino
PG - Deron Williams / Seth Curry / Devin Harris

As of now, I am open to keep the 15th man spot for a veteran like Vince Carter if he's waived. Or we sign a defensive specialist at 1. We've a hole defending quicker 1.

[dc]

*accidental post*

[Suka Bongcic]

I think you guys are underestimating him a little. Is he a dominant player? Of course not, but it's not like the guy sucks. I think it's going to take a little bit of time for Carlisle to figure out what he does best. Once he does though we will all see a productive player. At very least as productive as Josh Howard.

At very most as productive as Josh Howard IMO. I don't see Barnes ever becoming a 18-19 point scorer unless it's for a really bad team and he's chucking up 25 shots a game with bad efficiency. If he's ever to become more than that, the Mavs need to make a move to secure a top PG. He needs team dribble penetration to get open looks. His mid range game off the dribble is his go to and its average. Hopefully he gets some looks in the post. He has decent footwork down low and can get open looks, but needs to improve his touch.

[Simmons25]

Barnes has always been streaky... I really can't see that changing. He will go through entire weeks where he can't make a shot then have 2 weeks where he shoots like MJ.

The thing is he is one of the most mature hard working kids you would find... so its not like I think he has something obvious which you can point to.. to be fixed.

[Devassa]

Barnes has always been streaky... I really can't see that changing. He will go through entire weeks where he can't make a shot then have 2 weeks where he shoots like MJ.

The thing is he is one of the most mature hard working kids you would find... so its not like I think he has something obvious which you can point to.. to be fixed.

It's clearly a mental thing for Harrison.. I think he gets caught up in the fact that he was supposed to be a much better player by this point in his career... I'm hoping he can get some lessons from Holger throughout the year and gain some confidence.. I feel like Dallas is as good of a place for him to reach his potential as any... We did pretty well with Monta so who knows

[dc]

It's clearly a mental thing for Harrison.. I think he gets caught up in the fact that he was supposed to be a much better player by this point in his career... I'm hoping he can get some lessons from Holger throughout the year and gain some confidence.. I feel like Dallas is as good of a place for him to reach his potential as any... We did pretty well with Monta so who knows

FWIW, it's good he'll be around Holger and Dirk. Certainly can't hurt.

Just bear in mind that he was also around Steph and Klay all 4 years in GS and also got personal mentoring from Jerry West.....so Barnes wasn't exactly getting short changed in the support/mentoring/example setting department. He got plenty of that.

[Pinkyring]

There was just no point of this signing it was a waste of money, you could get the same production out of anderson, we don't win 1 more game with barnes nor does he sell tickets or attract free agents so whats the point. It's another bad deal like parsons overpaying a role player that has no impact on winning games.

[marthafokker]

As a GSW hoping Barnes being agressive, he could not even be Alpha dog on the 2nd unit. Usually disppeared on long stretches. Most of us fans didn't want him back at his asking price.... was asking for the other Barnes instead if not for KD.

His contract status really bothered him. I can imagine he will be even more trying to so trying to live up to it. His head is a major concern.

[Teffer10]

I think expectations should be curbed for Barnes. If he can become a critical role player like Marion I'd be satisfied even though he is making "goto guy" money.

DWill, Dirk and/or Wes will be our catalysts on any given night. If Barnes grows into a bigger role that would be a bonus but right now I think Rick would optimize Barnes' abilities by keeping him in a more somewhat limited role.

[Darren]

I think expectations should be curbed for Barnes. If he can become a critical role player like Marion I'd be satisfied even though he is making "goto guy" money.

DWill, Dirk and/or Wes will be our catalysts on any given night. If Barnes grows into a bigger role that would be a bonus but right now I think Rick would optimize Barnes' abilities by keeping him in a more somewhat limited role.

While I agree on principle that Barnes is more a 3-and-D player, I disagree that we can count on Matthews to score a ton as well. I am more comfortable with Barea / Curry starting in place of Matthews / Barnes. Then, trade either of the latter by mid-season.

[Teffer10]

I think expectations should be curbed for Barnes. If he can become a critical role player like Marion I'd be satisfied even though he is making "goto guy" money.

DWill, Dirk and/or Wes will be our catalysts on any given night. If Barnes grows into a bigger role that would be a bonus but right now I think Rick would optimize Barnes' abilities by keeping him in a more somewhat limited role.

While I agree on principle that Barnes is more a 3-and-D player, I disagree that we can count on Matthews to score a ton as well. I am more comfortable with Barea / Curry starting in place of Matthews / Barnes. Then, trade either of the latter by mid-season.

I could understand the logic of trading Wes if things go south this season but I think we are stuck with Barnes. If he doesn't produce we'd have to give up assets to get rid of him and I certainly wouldn't want to do that.
I say we just find a way to get him into a comfort zone and the best way to do that imo is to get him settled into more of a Marion type role instead of pushing him into a catalyst role.

[2011Champs]

I would love to get Barnes playing really well for a stretch and try to trade him for one of the 76er's bigs. Yeah, I know, put my crack pipe down. Never will happen.

[HMFFL]

I would love to get Barnes playing really well for a stretch and try to trade him for one of the 76er's bigs. Yeah, I know, put my crack pipe down. Never will happen.

I'd like to hope Barnes does play well and we'll keep him.
Trade another option that plays well consistently instead of the young talented Barnes.