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Can Trump wiggle out of this one?

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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#441 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:07 pm

duetta wrote:
CJackson wrote:Trump's economic plan has been deconstructed by thoughtful economics and they estimate Trump will explode the national debt and completely destroy the economy.

I could go on all day Bill, but no we are not doomed if Clinton wins. We are if Trump does though.


Drumpf has no plan and no clue. He pulled his economic plan out of the backside of one of the supply-side witch doctors. But the old voodoo has never worked and never will - least of all in the era of globalization. Money follows the direction of greatest return on investment. That's not going to be in the US for the foreseeable future.

We need a completely different economic approach, and I don't know that Hillary knows this. But I know Drumpf doesn't, and that he's too stupid to even begin to perceive that which he doesn't know.


Where will the money flow? For years the BRICs were considered growth prospects, but that has shifted. What region or asset class do you expect the next movement towards to be?
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#442 » by K_ick_God » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:11 pm

If Marv was announcing the presidential race, I think we've entered what can only be called extended gar-bage time.

And really, Trump's one month revealing his grotesque id to the world is the equivalent of emptying the bench.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#443 » by Oscirus » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:14 pm

CJackson wrote:
Bill Pidto wrote:We are all so screwed no matter who wins. Why don't enough people understand that? The world is in terrible hands...


No Bill.

Clinton wants to invest in clean energy, which would be the most important environmental initiative of our time.

Trump thinks global warming is a hoax invented by China.

Clinton would nominate judges who uphold your constitutional rights, not gut them.

Trump would seek to put in place ultra-rightist judges on the court. Contrary to the clotted reason of Trump supporters, the most extreme right wing judges have been the least observant of actual constitutional principles.

Clinton would seek to get large corporations to contribute their fair share of taxes, not evade taxation through expatriation.

Trump seeks to gut the corporate tax in the name of more trickle down economic witchcraft that decades have proven guts the middle class and further enriches the wealthy.

Clinton understands the budget and its constraints and the needs for funding programs.

Trump's economic plan has been deconstructed by thoughtful economists and they estimate Trump will explode the national debt and completely destroy the economy.

I could go on all day Bill, but no we are not doomed if Clinton wins. We are if Trump does though.


You think Clinton who's breaking fundraising records isn't getting money from said corporations? If they're giving her money, I'm fairly certain that's because it's in their best interest to do so.

Clinton's better then Trump, but that doesn't necessarily make her a great presidential candidate.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#444 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:22 pm

Oscirus wrote:
CJackson wrote:
Bill Pidto wrote:We are all so screwed no matter who wins. Why don't enough people understand that? The world is in terrible hands...


No Bill.

Clinton wants to invest in clean energy, which would be the most important environmental initiative of our time.

Trump thinks global warming is a hoax invented by China.

Clinton would nominate judges who uphold your constitutional rights, not gut them.

Trump would seek to put in place ultra-rightist judges on the court. Contrary to the clotted reason of Trump supporters, the most extreme right wing judges have been the least observant of actual constitutional principles.

Clinton would seek to get large corporations to contribute their fair share of taxes, not evade taxation through expatriation.

Trump seeks to gut the corporate tax in the name of more trickle down economic witchcraft that decades have proven guts the middle class and further enriches the wealthy.

Clinton understands the budget and its constraints and the needs for funding programs.

Trump's economic plan has been deconstructed by thoughtful economists and they estimate Trump will explode the national debt and completely destroy the economy.

I could go on all day Bill, but no we are not doomed if Clinton wins. We are if Trump does though.


You think Clinton who's breaking fundraising records isn't getting money from said corporations? If they're giving her money, I'm fairly certain that's because it's in their best interest to do so.

Clinton's better then Trump, but that doesn't necessarily make her a great presidential candidate.


Not sure what her fundraising has to do with what I said because every president that has been elected thus far has had pac money backing them and that at least gives their lobbyists a seat at the table when policy is being crafted. But that's the fundamental reason I supported Sanders because I want finance reform. But that in no way disqualifies her.

And I was giving just tip of the iceberg reasons among many more why THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and why he would be disastrous and why she would not. I didn't say she would be great. I was saying this notion that they both suck has become the mental equivalent of thoughtless civilian diahrrea and people need to wake the F up and realize there are enormous differences and it is very much a real choice and there is a great deal at stake.

The planet is at stake now. We don't have 10 generations to figure out mankind's fate. Clinton acknowledges this. Trump denies it. That alone is enough to disqualify one and quality the other.

And she could be great if she establishes this country as the global leader in clean energy. That would be as historically noteworthy as what Lincoln did to save the nation, because she would in effect be the leader who saved the whole damn world.

So I'm voting for her with a big thumbs up not because I love her personally, but because the choice could not be more clear cut for me.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#445 » by K_ick_God » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:36 pm

Funny how Trump's "Because you'd be in jail" line is one that his supporters surely liked, and Trump himself thought was a great zinger. But it's gotten a lot of play because it shows that he's kind of both authoritarian and clueless. A weird combo, and one that points out what's so lame about this election and he himself as a candidate: He's appealing to people who don't like the left or Clinton in some fundamental way, even if it's angry and emotional (maybe especially if it is), but much of the country wants someone who is fairly knowledgeable, reasonable and reliable.

He was never going to moderate his act, because once he stops saying stuff like "I'll get you and your little dog too," he would have to be more versed on what it actually takes to understand the job of president. He has no interest in that.

Like him or not, hate Hillary or not, you have to realize that Trump's bluster is a pretty intentional way of filling up time, and whipping his supporters up, IN LIEU of having anything too substantive to say. If I yell and scream, I can avoid having to spend much time showing I know what I'm talking about on the details or the policy nuances. That much is beyond doubt, regardless of your political stripe. He's an empty vessel for the most part.

That's why he turned his convention speech into a "law & order" speech. That wasn't even something that he ran on in the GOP primary. He just started running with it because he was behind and had nothing else much to say, or that he probably even cares about, back in August. Dallas just happened, he was losing, so suddenly he's the law and order candidate. There is pretty much no substance there -- I don't know that he believes in anything strongly on the issues. Like nothing probably.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#446 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:39 pm

KnicksGod wrote:Funny how Trump's "Because you'd be in jail" line is one that his supporters probably liked, and Trump himself probably thought was a great zinger. But it's gotten a lot of play because it shows that he's kind of both authoritarian and clueless. A weird combo, and one that kind of points out what's so lame about this election and he himself as a candidate: He's appealing to only people who are really emotional, but much of the country wants someone who is fairly reasonable and reliable.

He was never going to moderate his act, because once he stops saying stuff like "I'll get you and your little dog too," he would have to be more versed on what it actually takes to understand the job of president. He has no interest in that.


Trump was behaving like a junior version of that monster Rodrigo Duerte of the Phillipines with his threats of incarceration

Trump is known for studying Mein Kampf and the writings of Mussolini
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#447 » by duetta » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:45 pm

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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#448 » by oceanlife » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:45 pm

CJackson wrote:
duetta wrote:
CJackson wrote:
Where will the money flow? For years the BRICs were considered growth prospects, but that has shifted. What region or asset class do you expect the next movement towards to be?


Automation and companies facilitating the transition to automation are good bets. Main thing holding back massive automation is the high amount of cheap low skill labor. We are hitting a point though where even the massive increase in low skill labor will not be able to prevent an American transition to automated manufacturing. Careful though as it's not just the engineering skill which is important in evaluating the companies, but their ability to protect their intellectual properties and sell their technology.

World wide we will probably will see income normalization across borders. There's no reason for an American to be earning $50,000 a year when the equivalent work will be done for much less in the developing world. Wages long term will drop for American workers and that isn't necessarily a bad thing for employers. So any company which relies on mid-level skilled employees will become more profitable as they can replace their American workers or at the least negotiate down their wages. We are already seeing this in fields like IT.

Higher income in the developing world will lead to certain asset classes like real estate to increase dramatically as the wages in those areas grow. So higher end housing around those locations would be a safe bet. Countries and cities you aren't even thinking of like Bucharest or Chisinau. Real Estate Investment Vehicles would be a good choice because investing alone in foreign countries is dangerous for the individual. Safety in numbers.

You'll see more sophisticated financial markets in the developing world. In Eastern Europe development projects run into cash crunches all the time and need to slow down or stop completely. Whoever brings western style financial liquidity to those areas will make a lot of money. Same goes for the south pacific region. Big problem there is rule of law and corruption. If you're investing there you need to have a large pool of resources and the ability to influence local politicians. Companies that can not only manage the fundamentals of international investment but can also manage political realities are going to be great candidates for long term investment. The Democrats have been faithful in defending trade deals like TPP which will give our finance companies the protection they need.

America will need to pay interest on its debt and it's been doubling every 8-10 years. America is also rich in natural resources. Look for America to become less of a consumer of resources and more of an exporter. Only way to balance the books long term. So any company that focuses on facilitating the transfer of natural resources from America to other countries is going to be a good bet.

American standard of living is likely to drop so invest in companies that cater to individuals on restricted incomes. The so called top 1% will be fine as their income is derived more from assets, so high end luxury is safe, invest there with confidence. But companies targeting the top 25% will have difficulty selling their goods in the future. Companies like Nordstrom would worry me long term although I like the company under current market conditions. The bottom 70% which has less than $1,000 in savings will begin living lifestyles more in line with what we see consumer patterns in this demographic more in line with less wealthy countries. Cars will be bought less frequently, more multi-generational households, very little long term savings.

China is likely going to continue to be a strong candidate for investment, there's just so much competition to get into China that the investment margins are getting thin. China has made really great inroads with the Philippines which will give them a lot of leverage in extracting resources from the South Pacific sea. The American trump card was always our military, but the American military is getting relatively smaller and weaker while the Asian countries are getting much stronger. America is still going to be the worlds top military power but it will be more like the 2016 Olympics team dominance and not the 1992 Dream Team dominance. I would invest in companies positioned to take advantage of Chinas growing influence. There is a risk of price adjustment in the short to mid term so proceed with caution.

Plenty of opportunities out there. Certainly not the end of the world regardless of who wins the election. That said being in the investment banking industry, I support Clinton 110%. She understands we are living in a global world and that the key to maintaining our influence is accepting this transition and not trying to fight it.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#449 » by K_ick_God » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:46 pm

CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:Funny how Trump's "Because you'd be in jail" line is one that his supporters probably liked, and Trump himself probably thought was a great zinger. But it's gotten a lot of play because it shows that he's kind of both authoritarian and clueless. A weird combo, and one that kind of points out what's so lame about this election and he himself as a candidate: He's appealing to only people who are really emotional, but much of the country wants someone who is fairly reasonable and reliable.

He was never going to moderate his act, because once he stops saying stuff like "I'll get you and your little dog too," he would have to be more versed on what it actually takes to understand the job of president. He has no interest in that.


Trump was behaving like a junior version of that monster Rodrigo Duerte of the Phillipines with his threats of incarceration

Trump is known for studying Mein Kampf and the writings of Mussolini


The whole debate felt like the valedictorian being forced to debate the class bully in front of the detention room. Not that the audience in attendance was anything notable (they were ignored and their questions sucked) but he's debating her and "scoring points" only in the minds of those who cotton to the mob mentality.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#450 » by K_ick_God » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:48 pm

duetta wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/10/opinion/campaign-stops/trumps-second-debate-in-brief.html


lol
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#451 » by Oscirus » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:50 pm

Not sure what her fundraising has to do with what I said because every president that has been elected thus far has had pac money backing them and that at least gives their lobbyists a seat at the table when policy is being crafted. But that's the fundamental reason I supported Sanders because I want finance reform. But that in no way disqualifies her.


Barack change Obama took pac money and he made Bush tax cuts permanent. Just saying that this talk about Hillary taxing the hell out of her biggest donors sounds nice in principle, but let's be honest, it's not going to happen.

Truth be told, if Trump wasn't such a horrid disgrace, Hillary would probably be trailing by now.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#452 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:52 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:Funny how Trump's "Because you'd be in jail" line is one that his supporters probably liked, and Trump himself probably thought was a great zinger. But it's gotten a lot of play because it shows that he's kind of both authoritarian and clueless. A weird combo, and one that kind of points out what's so lame about this election and he himself as a candidate: He's appealing to only people who are really emotional, but much of the country wants someone who is fairly reasonable and reliable.

He was never going to moderate his act, because once he stops saying stuff like "I'll get you and your little dog too," he would have to be more versed on what it actually takes to understand the job of president. He has no interest in that.


Trump was behaving like a junior version of that monster Rodrigo Duerte of the Phillipines with his threats of incarceration

Trump is known for studying Mein Kampf and the writings of Mussolini


The whole debate felt like the valedictorian being forced to debate the class bully in front of the detention room. Not that the audience in attendance was anything notable (they were ignored and their questions sucked) but he's debating her and "scoring points" only in the minds of those who cotton to the mob mentality.


Agreed. It just needed some scarecrows with pitchforks, a few bales of hay and hot mulled apple cider to make it a Fall Harvest spectacle of Americans wrestling like WWE savages on Main Street.

The mods should have told Trump not to crowd Clinton. He was standing behind her scowling while she talked and it was just vile.

I read somewhere that Anderson did a good job. He's so lame. Let Knicks mods run a debate and it would have been better.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#453 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:53 pm

Oscirus wrote:
Not sure what her fundraising has to do with what I said because every president that has been elected thus far has had pac money backing them and that at least gives their lobbyists a seat at the table when policy is being crafted. But that's the fundamental reason I supported Sanders because I want finance reform. But that in no way disqualifies her.


Barack change Obama took pac money and he made Bush tax cuts permanent. Just saying that this talk about Hillary taxing the hell out of her biggest donors sounds nice in principle, but let's be honest, it's not going to happen.

Truth be told, if Trump wasn't such a horrid disgrace, Hillary would probably be trailing by now.


He said he wants to slash the corporate tax rate to 15%

The point is she does not have to change tax rates. All she has to do is change the ability of Apple to hide a hundred billion dollars in Ireland. The European Union has begun addressing it so the ability to get this done in a democrat congress will be a reality.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#454 » by K_ick_God » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:56 pm

CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
CJackson wrote:
Trump was behaving like a junior version of that monster Rodrigo Duerte of the Phillipines with his threats of incarceration

Trump is known for studying Mein Kampf and the writings of Mussolini


The whole debate felt like the valedictorian being forced to debate the class bully in front of the detention room. Not that the audience in attendance was anything notable (they were ignored and their questions sucked) but he's debating her and "scoring points" only in the minds of those who cotton to the mob mentality.


Agreed. It just needed some scarecrows with pitchforks, a few bales of hay and hot mulled apple cider to make it a Fall Harvest spectacle of Americans wrestling like WWE savages on Main Street.

The mods should have told Trump not to crowd Clinton. He was standing behind her scowling while she talked and it was just vile.

I read somewhere that Anderson did a good job. He's so lame. Let Knicks mods run a debate and it would have been better.


Yeah I don't get the Cooper fans. He seems like a nice guy but he's a pretty weak journalist. He used to be a gameshow host -- back in the 80's, nobody would have let this guy be an anchor.

Sometimes I wonder if Trump would have even gotten this far if Tim Russert was still alive. Yeah I said it.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#455 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:06 pm

oceanlife wrote:
CJackson wrote:
duetta wrote:


Automation and companies facilitating the transition to automation are good bets. Main thing holding back massive automation is the high amount of cheap low skill labor. We are hitting a point though where even the massive increase in low skill labor will not be able to prevent an American transition to automated manufacturing. Careful though as it's not just the engineering skill which is important in evaluating the companies, but their ability to protect their intellectual properties and sell their technology.

World wide we will probably will see income normalization across borders. There's no reason for an American to be earning $50,000 a year when the equivalent work will be done for much less in the developing world. Wages long term will drop for American workers and that isn't necessarily a bad thing for employers. So any company which relies on mid-level skilled employees will become more profitable as they can replace their American workers or at the least negotiate down their wages. We are already seeing this in fields like IT.

Higher income in the developing world will lead to certain asset classes like real estate to increase dramatically as the wages in those areas grow. So higher end housing around those locations would be a safe bet. Countries and cities you aren't even thinking of like Bucharest or Chisinau. Real Estate Investment Vehicles would be a good choice because investing alone in foreign countries is dangerous for the individual. Safety in numbers.

You'll see more sophisticated financial markets in the developing world. In Eastern Europe development projects run into cash crunches all the time and need to slow down or stop completely. Whoever brings western style financial liquidity to those areas will make a lot of money. Same goes for the south pacific region. Big problem there is rule of law and corruption. If you're investing there you need to have a large pool of resources and the ability to influence local politicians. Companies that can not only manage the fundamentals of international investment but can also manage political realities are going to be great candidates for long term investment. The Democrats have been faithful in defending trade deals like TPP which will give our finance companies the protection they need.

America will need to pay interest on its debt and it's been doubling every 8-10 years. America is also rich in natural resources. Look for America to become less of a consumer of resources and more of an exporter. Only way to balance the books long term. So any company that focuses on facilitating the transfer of natural resources from America to other countries is going to be a good bet.

American standard of living is likely to drop so invest in companies that cater to individuals on restricted incomes. The so called top 1% will be fine as their income is derived more from assets, so high end luxury is safe, invest there with confidence. But companies targeting the top 25% will have difficulty selling their goods in the future. Companies like Nordstrom would worry me long term although I like the company under current market conditions. The bottom 70% which has less than $1,000 in savings will begin living lifestyles more in line with what we see consumer patterns in this demographic more in line with less wealthy countries. Cars will be bought less frequently, more multi-generational households, very little long term savings.

China is likely going to continue to be a strong candidate for investment, there's just so much competition to get into China that the investment margins are getting thin. China has made really great inroads with the Philippines which will give them a lot of leverage in extracting resources from the South Pacific sea. The American trump card was always our military, but the American military is getting relatively smaller and weaker while the Asian countries are getting much stronger. America is still going to be the worlds top military power but it will be more like the 2016 Olympics team dominance and not the 1992 Dream Team dominance. I would invest in companies positioned to take advantage of Chinas growing influence. There is a risk of price adjustment in the short to mid term so proceed with caution.

Plenty of opportunities out there. Certainly not the end of the world regardless of who wins the election. That said being in the investment banking industry, I support Clinton 110%. She understands we are living in a global world and that the key to maintaining our influence is accepting this transition and not trying to fight it.


I appreciate the thoughtful and informative reply.

Yes, Clinton is a realpolitik person, not a flabby fake idealist who blabs about thousands of manufacturers shipping our jobs overseas. The fact is you can't prevent companies from seeking advantageous pricing for their goods and services otherwise you will have to gut the whole notion of capitalization which in the public realm is dependent on financial markets. You gut company's abilities to do what is good for shareholder value and you will have to create a whole new economic system from scratch, something Trump types don't even begin to fathom. It is imperfect and the whole notion of arbitrage is at the heart of our civilization, but try explaining that to simpletons. You can't. They don't understand that transparent trade borders is the only possible path forwards and isolationism would be the death of the U.S. economy. And that is basically what Trump proposes. It is ridiculous.

I do see how buying property in places like Viet Nam and Eastern Europe could be great investments. I see many of the Eastern European countries may end up being very proficient at being mid-level technology providers with their highly intelligent multi-lingual coders who are way easier to deal with than the Indian nationals that caught the first wave of outsourcing. I will think about international REITs going forwards. I used to think the Philippines would be well poised for major growth, but Duerte has chilled my interest greatly. Yes, it may still happen with a Sino infusion of capital and a detachment from U.S. influence, but he unnerves me.

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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#456 » by reub » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:38 pm

Hillary admittedly has a "public position and a private position". Just like Honest Abe!
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#457 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:42 pm

ClydeRules wrote:Hillary admittedly has a "public position and a private position". Just like Honest Abe!


That was actually a pretty slick answer if you ask me. It left Trump fuming and mumbling about Abe
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#458 » by DickGrayson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:01 pm

This is the election where the establishment is shoving it right in your face that you have no choice, no voice, and no say. Eat it.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#459 » by GONYK » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:03 pm

DickGrayson wrote:This is the election where the establishment is shoving it right in your face that you have no choice, no voice, and no say. Eat it.


People have a choice. They are choosing not to vote Trump.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#460 » by Bill Pidto » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:15 pm

CJackson wrote:
Bill Pidto wrote:We are all so screwed no matter who wins. Why don't enough people understand that? The world is in terrible hands...


No Bill.

Clinton wants to invest in clean energy, which would be the most important environmental initiative of our time.

Trump thinks global warming is a hoax invented by China.

Clinton would nominate judges who uphold your constitutional rights, not gut them.

Trump would seek to put in place ultra-rightist judges on the court. Contrary to the clotted reason of Trump supporters, the most extreme right wing judges have been the least observant of actual constitutional principles.

Clinton would seek to get large corporations to contribute their fair share of taxes, not evade taxation through expatriation.

Trump seeks to gut the corporate tax in the name of more trickle down economic witchcraft that decades have proven guts the middle class and further enriches the wealthy.

Clinton understands the budget and its constraints and the needs for funding programs.

Trump's economic plan has been deconstructed by thoughtful economists and they estimate Trump will explode the national debt and completely destroy the economy.

I could go on all day Bill, but no we are not doomed if Clinton wins. We are if Trump does though.


That's your opinion, and I respect your opinion because I respect your intelligence, but I politely disagree with any notion that Hillary is good-hearted and seeks to save the world. She is a liar and a near-proven criminal, and has been and always will be in bed with the megalomaniac banksters whose families have been chasing world domination since before the 1900s.

I'd really rather not get into a back and forth. I've avoided the political/election threads since our last exchange about Trump. I realized I was in over my head. I was kind of on the Trump train, not because I'm a racist or a far-right-wing guy, but because I'm against globalism and big government, and I thought he was passionately against those same things, enough to be a better candidate despite his personality flaws. I admit that now, I'm thoroughly confused and frustrated and scared.... but in no way could I ever support Clinton. In my opinion, she is just as vile and dangerous, just in a much more undercover way.

Regardless, I'm back to supporting no one. I've never voted and I never will. I buy into a lot of conspiracy theories, and I hate politics and politicians, period. I can't change my mind on that. But carry on. I won't attempt to sway anyone here.

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