Can Trump wiggle out of this one?

[Bill Pidto]

We are all so screwed no matter who wins. Why don't enough people understand that? The world is in terrible hands...

Yeah the terms "out of the frying pan, into the fire" and "damned if you do, damned if you don't" are likely going to be very applicable for this presidential election.

I say they make me President and you the Vice President. Think of the chicks we can get!

We'd be stars. We could do anything then. We could..... grab em by the pussy, moo!!!

[thebuzzardman]

We are all so screwed no matter who wins. Why don't enough people understand that? The world is in terrible hands...

No Bill.

Clinton wants to invest in clean energy, which would be the most important environmental initiative of our time.

Trump thinks global warming is a hoax invented by China.

Clinton would nominate judges who uphold your constitutional rights, not gut them.

Trump would seek to put in place ultra-rightist judges on the court. Contrary to the clotted reason of Trump supporters, the most extreme right wing judges have been the least observant of actual constitutional principles.

Clinton would seek to get large corporations to contribute their fair share of taxes, not evade taxation through expatriation.

Trump seeks to gut the corporate tax in the name of more trickle down economic witchcraft that decades have proven guts the middle class and further enriches the wealthy.

Clinton understands the budget and its constraints and the needs for funding programs.

Trump's economic plan has been deconstructed by thoughtful economists and they estimate Trump will explode the national debt and completely destroy the economy.

I could go on all day Bill, but no we are not doomed if Clinton wins. We are if Trump does though.

You think Clinton who's breaking fundraising records isn't getting money from said corporations? If they're giving her money, I'm fairly certain that's because it's in their best interest to do so.

Clinton's better then Trump, but that doesn't necessarily make her a great presidential candidate.

Yeah, lets get real. Trump is a nutbag, but Hilary is a neocon. She's far further right than John D Rockerfeller was, who has on centrist side of right wing, but still.

If conservatives really appointed judges who conserved the constitution, they might get my vote here and there. But they don't. In fact, they tend to favor the erosion of rights. But Hilary is a corporate shill all the way. Hell, as far "left" as Obama was, whatever the political reality for it (or fear), his conduct in terms of prosecuting those who imploded the world economy with Holder shows he was pretty in the pocket of wall street as well.

[thebuzzardman]

No Bill.

Clinton wants to invest in clean energy, which would be the most important environmental initiative of our time.

Trump thinks global warming is a hoax invented by China.

Clinton would nominate judges who uphold your constitutional rights, not gut them.

Trump would seek to put in place ultra-rightist judges on the court. Contrary to the clotted reason of Trump supporters, the most extreme right wing judges have been the least observant of actual constitutional principles.

Clinton would seek to get large corporations to contribute their fair share of taxes, not evade taxation through expatriation.

Trump seeks to gut the corporate tax in the name of more trickle down economic witchcraft that decades have proven guts the middle class and further enriches the wealthy.

Clinton understands the budget and its constraints and the needs for funding programs.

Trump's economic plan has been deconstructed by thoughtful economists and they estimate Trump will explode the national debt and completely destroy the economy.

I could go on all day Bill, but no we are not doomed if Clinton wins. We are if Trump does though.

You think Clinton who's breaking fundraising records isn't getting money from said corporations? If they're giving her money, I'm fairly certain that's because it's in their best interest to do so.

Clinton's better then Trump, but that doesn't necessarily make her a great presidential candidate.

Not sure what her fundraising has to do with what I said because every president that has been elected thus far has had pac money backing them and that at least gives their lobbyists a seat at the table when policy is being crafted. But that's the fundamental reason I supported Sanders because I want finance reform. But that in no way disqualifies her.

And I was giving just tip of the iceberg reasons among many more why THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and why he would be disastrous and why she would not. I didn't say she would be great. I was saying this notion that they both suck has become the mental equivalent of thoughtless civilian diahrrea and people need to wake the F up and realize there are enormous differences and it is very much a real choice and there is a great deal at stake.

The planet is at stake now. We don't have 10 generations to figure out mankind's fate. Clinton acknowledges this. Trump denies it. That alone is enough to disqualify one and quality the other.

And she could be great if she establishes this country as the global leader in clean energy. That would be as historically noteworthy as what Lincoln did to save the nation, because she would in effect be the leader who saved the whole damn world.

So I'm voting for her with a big thumbs up not because I love her personally, but because the choice could not be more clear cut for me.

There are enormous differences because Trump sucks so very very hard. Hilary just merely sucks, in terms of how it's going to be for US citizens, which is more of the same of the last 30 years, which while there has been good times, it's been the steady downhill. She'll continue that.

[Capn'O]

I've honestly never read that site. Is this typical of it? What a time to be alive.

I just checked it out. The first link I went to mentioned they are team hoodwink. You could replace Hillary with Phil, country with Knicks fans and it sounds like something from here

Showing their true colors, the Clinton’s attempt to counter their own dastardly deeds with false accusations. Their tactics are shrewd, honed by decades of dishonest political manipulation.

Will they hoodwink the whole country again? Or will their castle of lies come crushing down in the harsh light of the truth? Alex breaks down the latest salvo in this rousing call to patriots everywhere.

Bamboozled! Run amok!

[CJackson]

We are all so screwed no matter who wins. Why don't enough people understand that? The world is in terrible hands...

No Bill.

Clinton wants to invest in clean energy, which would be the most important environmental initiative of our time.

Trump thinks global warming is a hoax invented by China.

Clinton would nominate judges who uphold your constitutional rights, not gut them.

Trump would seek to put in place ultra-rightist judges on the court. Contrary to the clotted reason of Trump supporters, the most extreme right wing judges have been the least observant of actual constitutional principles.

Clinton would seek to get large corporations to contribute their fair share of taxes, not evade taxation through expatriation.

Trump seeks to gut the corporate tax in the name of more trickle down economic witchcraft that decades have proven guts the middle class and further enriches the wealthy.

Clinton understands the budget and its constraints and the needs for funding programs.

Trump's economic plan has been deconstructed by thoughtful economists and they estimate Trump will explode the national debt and completely destroy the economy.

I could go on all day Bill, but no we are not doomed if Clinton wins. We are if Trump does though.

That's your opinion, and I respect your opinion because I respect your intelligence, but I politely disagree with any notion that Hillary is good-hearted and seeks to save the world. She is a liar and a near-proven criminal, and has been and always will be in bed with the megalomaniac banksters whose families have been chasing world domination since before the 1900s.

I'd really rather not get into a back and forth. I've avoided the political/election threads since our last exchange about Trump. I realized I was in over my head. I was kind of on the Trump train, not because I'm a racist or a far-right-wing guy, but because I'm against globalism and big government, and I thought he was passionately against those same things, enough to be a better candidate despite his personality flaws. I admit that now, I'm thoroughly confused and frustrated and scared.... but in no way could I ever support Clinton. In my opinion, she is just as vile and dangerous, just in a much more undercover way.

Regardless, I'm back to supporting no one. I've never voted and I never will. I buy into a lot of conspiracy theories, and I hate politics and politicians, period. I can't change my mind on that. But carry on. I won't attempt to sway anyone here.

I'm not going to attack you, so you can relax. Globalism is a fact of life. Being against it is just an emotional stance, not a reasoned one for most people. It is like pissing in the wind. It has no concrete basis for policy construction other than isolationism, untenable tarriffs that kill us more than the target and fear mongering.

Saying she is just as dangerous is simply a vague, unsubtantiated assumption on your part because you've consumed the hate propaganda of right wing trolls that indoctrinated you into your vague political viewpoint.

As if every critical choice is only about the personality and not what that leads to. In Trump's case, his psyschological make-up is the most dangerous thing conceivable. Hers is nothing like that and what you despise about her is mostly a fiction constructed by right wing demagogues and then peddled by tens of millions of internet lemmings who regurgitate nonsense like Hillary laughed about a 12 year old girl being raped and other such hysterical, idiotic rubbish. Did you even know she was not responsible for the deletion of those emails and how that transpired? No you don't.

You don't hate Clinton because you actually know why you hate her. You hate her because you've swallowed the bait and you're too lazy to dig any further. She has definite flaws and she is not my ideal candidate, but saying she is just as dangerous as Trump shows you simply can't be bothered to educate yourself further. That's your choice though. I'm not going to hound you over it.

Since you will never vote in my book you have counted yourself out as an American citizen so I will neither hold you accountable for your views nor waste any additional effort on this.

[oceanlife]

That's your opinion, and I respect your opinion because I respect your intelligence, but I politely disagree with any notion that Hillary is good-hearted and seeks to save the world. She is a liar and a near-proven criminal, and has been and always will be in bed with the megalomaniac banksters whose families have been chasing world domination since before the 1900s.

I'd really rather not get into a back and forth. I've avoided the political/election threads since our last exchange about Trump. I realized I was in over my head. I was kind of on the Trump train, not because I'm a racist or a far-right-wing guy, but because I'm against globalism and big government, and I thought he was passionately against those same things, enough to be a better candidate despite his personality flaws. I admit that now, I'm thoroughly confused and frustrated and scared.... but in no way could I ever support Clinton. In my opinion, she is just as vile and dangerous, just in a much more undercover way.

Regardless, I'm back to supporting no one. I've never voted and I never will. I buy into a lot of conspiracy theories, and I hate politics and politicians, period. I can't change my mind on that. But carry on. I won't attempt to sway anyone here.

Not common to see people being so reasonable, so I give respect to you there.

I really don't think you should worry about it being the end of the world if Clinton wins. Think of it this way, basically every financial institution is backing her, and for good reason. It isn't because they are rubbing their hands together trying to end the world, they just want to have business continue unobstructed.

It comes down to Public vs Private positions as the leaks revealed. She may appear leftist if you only look at her on the surface. But if she was going to cripple us with taxes we would have seen major backlash from the banking community. That hasn't occurred. If there was some end of the world doomsday scenario in the works then we would see the more well informed leaving en masse. Hasn't happened.

In other words you're safe to continue to live your life. Clinton isn't close to the best candidate for president, between me and you (and all of RealGM), I don't think she's particularly talented or smart. I would guess she's probably not a good human being either. She is however well connected and will be a safe and stable choice for the next 4-8 years.

[CJackson]

You think Clinton who's breaking fundraising records isn't getting money from said corporations? If they're giving her money, I'm fairly certain that's because it's in their best interest to do so.

Clinton's better then Trump, but that doesn't necessarily make her a great presidential candidate.

Not sure what her fundraising has to do with what I said because every president that has been elected thus far has had pac money backing them and that at least gives their lobbyists a seat at the table when policy is being crafted. But that's the fundamental reason I supported Sanders because I want finance reform. But that in no way disqualifies her.

And I was giving just tip of the iceberg reasons among many more why THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and why he would be disastrous and why she would not. I didn't say she would be great. I was saying this notion that they both suck has become the mental equivalent of thoughtless civilian diahrrea and people need to wake the F up and realize there are enormous differences and it is very much a real choice and there is a great deal at stake.

The planet is at stake now. We don't have 10 generations to figure out mankind's fate. Clinton acknowledges this. Trump denies it. That alone is enough to disqualify one and quality the other.

And she could be great if she establishes this country as the global leader in clean energy. That would be as historically noteworthy as what Lincoln did to save the nation, because she would in effect be the leader who saved the whole damn world.

So I'm voting for her with a big thumbs up not because I love her personally, but because the choice could not be more clear cut for me.

There are enormous differences because Trump sucks so very very hard. Hilary just merely sucks, in terms of how it's going to be for US citizens, which is more of the same of the last 30 years, which while there has been good times, it's been the steady downhill. She'll continue that.

Like I said, we will see. It only takes one decisive action like I've spoken of that can change the course of history in a truly positive manner. Now that there is a chance of both houses going dem we would be relieved of the horrible obstructionism Obama had to contend with and we may see real change. It is hard to change when you have tea party knuckle draggers doing Dr. Seuss filibusters and threatening to shut down the govt every time they don't like your proposals.

So don't be so sure. She has had to deal with a lot of crap in her life because right wing men in politics can be real pigs plus her husband was a cheating pig and both would have destroyed a lesser person. She's tough as nails and that is why many people hate her because they wanted to kill her every step of the way and they couldn't. She is a testament to their inability to knock her out of politics and they resent that more than what she actually stands for.

She has had to deal with that BS to the point it has obscured her ability to do more. She is mostly status quo, but at this juncture even that is vastly better than a Trumpapocalypse.

So I'd place my bet on her and hope for a dem congress and then we'll see where her real heart is, because I don't think she is half as bad as the trolls make her out to be.

[K_ick_God]

I don't get why the world mythologizes presidents and presidential candidates.

Hillary is not some secret society villain. I guess people see how smart she is, and they don't understand how she could have led the life she did (good and bad), and so they run to a lot of weird thinking. Also yeah, she's not only very bright but a guarded person in public. She is not a happy warrior. She is less accessible.

Still that is no reason to come up with all these weird caricatures of her. She is pretty much what you see -- a person who is not that artful about wooing the public or figuring out how to blend her private assurances and public campaign positions ... which just means she isn't Bill Clinton pretty much.

I don't find Hillary more or less dishonest than Obama. She is a competent, tireless worker, again similar to B.O. And she doesn't give off any visionary vibe. She'll scrub all her work and make the best decisions she can. She is definitely a little hawkish on foreign policy. Okay. That doesn't make her part of a secret order lol -- she just thinks she can move the needle by using some U.S. might.

She's been at this a long time. Probably not the freshest perspective. But that is NOT THE SAME as being all these other damn things people come up with.

And to be fair, I think the same about Trump in the sense that while he's not as smart, not as experienced and not at all qualified to be president, he also is what he is: A guy who is not as successful as he claims, who doesn't tell the truth, but who probably would try to steer some sort of normal course if he was in power. He's not as dangerous or evil as he is basically a ridiculous windbag. A showman without half as much substance, and a guy who is a vessel for all of these insecurities and emotions that have been built up on the right as they lost control of the things they thought they had domain over: A booming U.S. economy that favored the average 1950s worker, a dominant position over global affairs, and a Republican in the White House.

[CJackson]

I don't get why the world mythologizes presidents and presidential candidates.

Hillary is not some secret society villain. I guess people see how smart she is, and they don't understand how she could have led the life she did (good and bad), and so they run to a lot of weird thinking. Also yeah, she's not only very bright but a guarded person in public. She is not a happy warrior. She is less accessible.

Still that is no reason to come up with all these weird caricatures of her. She is pretty much what you see -- a person who is not that artful about wooing the public or figuring out how to blend her private assurances and public campaign positions ... which just means she isn't Bill Clinton pretty much.

I don't find Hillary more or less dishonest than Obama. She is a competent, tireless worker, again similar to B.O. And she doesn't give off any visionary vibe. She'll scrub all her work and make the best decisions she can. She is definitely a little hawkish on foreign policy. Okay. That doesn't make her part of a secret order lol -- she just thinks she can move the needle by using some U.S. might.

She's been at this a long time. Probably not the freshest perspective. But that is NOT THE SAME as being all these other damn things people come up with.

And to be fair, I think the same about Trump in the sense that while he's not as smart, not as experienced and not at all qualified to be president, he also is what he is: A guy who is not as successful as he claims, who doesn't tell the truth, but who probably would try to steer some sort of normal course if he was in power. He's not as dangerous or evil as he is basically a ridiculous windbag. A showman without half as much substance, and a guy who is a vessel for all of these insecurities and emotions that have been built up on the right as they lost control of the things they thought they had domain over: A booming U.S. economy that favored the average 1950s worker, a dominant position over global affairs, and a Republican in the White House.

What you are not considering are there are other ridiculous windbags who are autocratic rulers with nuclear weapons who threaten to use them and who are not integrated into international diplomatic networks like the U.S.

Trump threatening to blow people up for taunting sailors or asking like a dangerous toddler why he needs permission to push the red button is certainly all we need to know about what he could instigate.

It only takes one international incident to unravel nuclear safety globally. Trump is the last person you want at the helm.

Plus Trump would actually attract more terrorist strikes because of his nature, not prevent them.

[Bill Pidto]

You said you weren't going to attack me lol. Whatever. Like I said, I'd rather talk basketball with you. We're both set in our ways on this one, and while I'm mildly offended that you would consider me lazy, uneducated, and too lazy to become educated, I can deal with it because I know it's untrue, and I know your tongue is extra sharp for anyone who disagrees with your opinion. That's cool with me. This is the nature of politics.

What will be, will be. With or without my vote. And I absolutely am an American, because I was born here on this soil, and I pay taxes here, and I'm eligible to be jailed here if I break American laws. Just because I choose not to vote in what I believe to be a rigged system does not change that and it does not render my opinion baseless. More than anything else, I'm a human being who shares the planet with you and the rest of us, and I have a right to feel skeptical, angry, disenfranchised, etc. There is clearly a lot to be upset about as a human being in 2016, regardless of nationality.

It's believed to be Thomas Jefferson who said, "the greatest form of patriotism is dissent". I won't be shamed into voting or choosing a side in a 2 dog race. Emphasis on the word 'dog'. Suit yourself, though. I hope it all works out. I truly hope Hillary Clinton will save the world...

[CJackson]

You said you weren't going to attack me lol. Whatever. Like I said, I'd rather talk basketball with you. We're both set in our ways on this one, and while I'm mildly offended that you would consider me lazy, uneducated, and too lazy to become educated, I can deal with it because I know it's untrue, and I know your tongue is extra sharp for anyone who disagrees with your opinion. That's cool with me. This is the nature of politics.

What will be, will be. With or without my vote. And I absolutely am an American, because I was born here on this soil, and I pay taxes here, and I'm eligible to be jailed here if I break American laws. Just because I choose not to vote in what I believe to be a rigged system does not change that and it does not render my opinion baseless. More than anything else, I'm a human being who shares the planet with you and the rest of us, and I have a right to feel skeptical, angry, disenfranchised, etc. There is clearly a lot to be upset about as a human being in 2016, regardless of nationality.

It's believed to be Thomas Jefferson who said, "the greatest form of patriotism is dissent". I won't be shamed into voting or choosing a side in a 2 dog race. Emphasis on the word 'dog'. Suit yourself, though. I hope it all works out. I truly hope Hillary Clinton will save the world...

You said you will never vote. Not voting for the rest of your life is an expression of Jeffersonian inspired dissent? Come on. What do you expect to hear when you say that and then express vague political opinions that both are equally dangerous? That is the kind of pernicious silliness being thrown around these days that disqualifies many people from being taken seriously. They both suck? Perhaps. They are equally dangerous? That's just weak. So yeah, I do think you are too lazy to dig deeper. That's not me saying you are a fool. Being lazy is correctible. But if I think you are too lazy to bother going beyond vague assumptions you've swallowed whole without further critical examination then so be it. I think you saying you will not vote for the rest of your life is really sad, but suit yourself.

Anyway, let's stick to hoops

[Oscirus]

don't find Hillary more or less dishonest than Obama.

You act like that's a good thing. Chigcagobama's dishonest as **** and let's not even get into the lack of transparency with his administration. Hillary's as bad as advertised.

[CJackson]

don't find Hillary more or less dishonest than Obama.

You act like that's a good thing. Chigcagobama's dishonest as **** and let's not even get into the lack of transparency with his administration. Hillary's as bad as advertised.

I don't think either of them are particularly clean. The dream of Obama being a progressive died a very long time ago. They are both pretty much establishment people.

But my point about obstructionism is important. Both Obama and Clinton had progressive beginnings. There are still aspects of that in their character politically that simply didn't have a chance. They are each capable of doing some good too. But Obama was dealt a very weak hand and the worst congress in history. So there is a chance this can change. Whatever you may think of them as having corrupted characters does not mean they will be on the wrong side of history with their choices if the have a cooperative congress to work with. Obama did not. Clinton might get that.

[Oscirus]

don't find Hillary more or less dishonest than Obama.

You act like that's a good thing. Chigcagobama's dishonest as **** and let's not even get into the lack of transparency with his administration. Hillary's as bad as advertised.

I don't think either of them are particularly clean. The dream of Obama being a progressive died a very long time ago. They are both pretty much establishment people.

But my point about obstructionism is important. Both Obama and Clinton had progressive beginnings. There are still aspects of that in their character politically that simply didn't have a chance. They are each capable of doing some good too. But Obama was dealt a very weak hand and the worst congress in history. So there is a chance this can change. Whatever you may think of them as having corrupted characters does not mean they will be on the wrong side of history with their choices if the have a cooperative congress to work with. Obama did not. Clinton might get that.

Obama started off with a filibuster proof senate and a dem congress, he lost it so that's on him. We'll likely never know with Clinton because it doesn't look like dems will overtake the majority this time and 2018 will be virtually impossible thanks to the way the districts for that year are aligned.

[CJackson]

You act like that's a good thing. Chigcagobama's dishonest as **** and let's not even get into the lack of transparency with his administration. Hillary's as bad as advertised.

I don't think either of them are particularly clean. The dream of Obama being a progressive died a very long time ago. They are both pretty much establishment people.

But my point about obstructionism is important. Both Obama and Clinton had progressive beginnings. There are still aspects of that in their character politically that simply didn't have a chance. They are each capable of doing some good too. But Obama was dealt a very weak hand and the worst congress in history. So there is a chance this can change. Whatever you may think of them as having corrupted characters does not mean they will be on the wrong side of history with their choices if the have a cooperative congress to work with. Obama did not. Clinton might get that.

Obama started off with a filibuster proof senate and a dem congress, he lost it so that's on him. We'll likely never know with Clinton because it doesn't look like dems will overtake the majority this time and 2018 will be virtually impossible thanks to the way the districts for that year are aligned.

Lets check back on that in a month

[Bill Pidto]

Claiming I will never vote in my life may have been an exaggeration. There's no way I could truly predict that. Maybe what I should have said was, I will not vote until I genuinely feel my vote will matter and help change things for what I believe to be the best. That is the purpose of a vote, and I don't think my vote this year will serve that purpose. Not in what is almost guaranteed to be a "blue state". It's kind of moot. Hillary will win. Congrats to Hillary and her supporters.

As for my laziness and level of education, I honestly feel like my stance is born from digging almost as deep as I possibly could. If I'm wrong at all, I would blame my sources and my own intuition before I would attribute it to a lack of effort or interest or desire to learn. I can also tell you with certainty that my sources of information are not Fox News or any right-wing internet jargon. I just turned 30 in June. I've been deeply researching and pondering about government and politics since I ate my first magic mushroom at the ripe age of 19. I know I'm still a baby to some, but I am sharp as a tack, and a deep thinker, and I'd have to give myself a little more credit than you might think I deserve based on a few posts in this thread.

But for real- it's all good and it's all love. I think all of us generally want the same things for ourselves and our friends and family because all of us here are good people. So we can take some solace in that. Like I said, I just hope someone gets it right and proves me wrong to some degree.

KNICKS KNICKS KNICKS KNICKS

[CJackson]

Claiming I will never vote in my life may have been an exaggeration. There's no way I could truly predict that. Maybe what I should have said was, I will not vote until I genuinely feel my vote will matter and help change things for what I believe to be the best. That is the purpose of a vote, and I don't think my vote this year will serve that purpose. Not in what is almost guaranteed to be a "blue state". It's kind of moot. Hillary will win. Congrats to Hillary and her supporters.

As for my laziness and level of education, I honestly feel like my stance is born from digging almost as deep as I possibly could. If I'm wrong at all, I would blame my sources and my own intuition before I would attribute it to a lack of effort or interest or desire to learn. I can also tell you with certainty that my sources of information are not Fox News or any right-wing internet jargon. I just turned 30 in June. I've been deeply researching and pondering about government and politics since I ate my first magic mushroom at the ripe age of 19. I know I'm still a baby to some, but I am sharp as a tack, and a deep thinker, and I'd have to give myself a little more credit than you might think I deserve based on a few posts in this thread.

But for real- it's all good and it's all love. I think all of us generally want the same things for ourselves and our friends and family because all of us here are good people. So we can take some solace in that. Like I said, I just hope someone gets it right and proves me wrong to some degree.

KNICKS KNICKS KNICKS KNICKS

OK, Register to Vote someday

Keep learning

Magic Mushrooms are good

Peace

Go Knicks!

[Phish Tank]

game, set, match

Read on Twitter

[CJackson]

game, set, match

Read on Twitter

Typical omission of the facts by these a-holes

The Putin connection should have spooked any sensible American a long time ago

[Jeffrey]

I just realize something and the Donald Trump effect will harm the GOP beyond this year. People like Ted Cruz, Rubio and Ryan that probably still has aspirations to the GOP candidate in 2020 will feel this effect. They didn't leave his bandwagon and when the next primaries comes around, every GOP candidate is going to grab as many women voters as they can. All they need to do is how Cruz, Rubio and/or Ryan supported Trump after the tapes came out.

GOP better find someone else and it better not be Chris Christie.