Damian Lillard VS Kyrie Irving

[Syd-TK3]

Id much rather have lillard

[BenoUdrihFTL]

I like Lillard's game better, but even if I didn't, taking Kyrie would be very risky given the fact that he struggles to play a full season.

[picc]

Feel like Kyrie is more unstoppable when he's on. But he's also more damaging when he's off. Higher ceiling, lower floor, I guess.

50/50. Can't decide.

[K_chile22]

If the question is who's better it's extremely difficult, if it's who would you rather have its Lillard to me only because of health.

[Colbinii]

I like Lillard's game better, but even if I didn't, taking Kyrie would be very risky given the fact that he struggles to play a full season.

The question isn't asking who would you rather have, it is asking who is better. When healthy, I think Kyrie has shown that he is a superior player. He isn't the superior player by much, but I would comfortably take him over Lillard in a vacuum. When you factor in health and other things, it probably sways in favor of Lillard.

[Dupp]

More or less the same player.

[Quotatious]

I prefer Lillard, but Irving was very impressive in the playoffs and especially in the finals, so yeah, they are roughly equal. I just think Dame would be capable of very similar things if he played alongside LeBron, so that's circumstantial to a significant degree. Kyrie was hardly impressive when he led his own team, Dame certainly had (far) better results when he led the Blazers alongside LMA in 1a/1b scenario.

[Quotatious]

Like the above Cavs fan suggests it's a wash. Brownie points goes to the guy who out-peformed the MVP in the Finals though it is not out of the realm of possibility that Dame can do that.

Some of Lillard's best games last season happened against the Warriors, so yeah, I'm pretty sure he could do it in the playoffs, too, where Curry wasn't the same as he was in RS. He dropped 51 on them, on 82% TS, with zero turnovers, but also 7 assists and 6 steals, which is just an insane performance (the record-breaking Warriors got blown out by 32 points in that game, to boot). He also had 40 and 38 point games against them last year, and averaged 36.5 ppg on 63.7% TS in four games...These are incredible numbers.

[LivingLegend]

I prefer Lillard, but Irving was very impressive in the playoffs and especially in the finals, so yeah, they are roughly equal. I just think Dame would be capable of very similar things if he played alongside LeBron, so that's circumstantial to a significant degree. Kyrie was hardly impressive when he led his own team, Dame certainly had (far) better results when he led the Blazers alongside LMA in 1a/1b scenario.

LeBron being on the floor does not effect Kyries impact at all, there was a whole other topic on this with advanced stats that say Kyrie doesnt benefit at all from being on the floor with LeBron. He is an iso player mostly and thats how he scores by creating for himself off dribble.

Dame also had far better results when he led his own team because he played with the 2nd best PF in the NBA in LMA. Kyrie had to lean on Dion Waiters lol Take away LaMarcus from that team and how do the Blazers look?

End of the day they are very very similar, cant discredit either one. But I will take Kyrie based on last years playoffs and his clutch ability to make big plays happen in big time games and I dont know if Lillard makes the shots Kyrie was making in that Warriors series.

[bondom34]

I prefer Lillard, but Irving was very impressive in the playoffs and especially in the finals, so yeah, they are roughly equal. I just think Dame would be capable of very similar things if he played alongside LeBron, so that's circumstantial to a significant degree. Kyrie was hardly impressive when he led his own team, Dame certainly had (far) better results when he led the Blazers alongside LMA in 1a/1b scenario.

LeBron being on the floor does not effect Kyries impact at all, there was a whole other topic on this with advanced stats that say Kyrie doesnt benefit at all from being on the floor with LeBron. He is an iso player mostly and thats how he scores by creating for himself off dribble.

Dame also had far better results when he led his own team because he played with the 2nd best PF in the NBA in LMA. Kyrie had to lean on Dion Waiters lol Take away LaMarcus from that team and how do the Blazers look?

End of the day they are very very similar, cant discredit either one. But I will take Kyrie based on last years playoffs and his clutch ability to make big plays happen in big time games and I dont know if Lillard makes the shots Kyrie was making in that Warriors series.

Not sure where this idea is from, because Dame did better with LMA off court than Irving did w/ Lebron off. To add, while his individual numbers are similar and slightly better, his team got beat without Lebron.

Both on court:

http://nbawowy.com/4vpmik6uk9s#/4vpmik6uk9s

Kyrie at 54.2 TS and 1.10 PPP, team 115 O rating 106 D rating

Take Lebron off:
http://nbawowy.com/oiafqja0v9o#/oiafqja0v9o
Kyrie at 55.3 TS and 1.11 PPP, but team 107.3 O rating, 107.8 D rating


Go to 2 years ago, Lillard/LMA both on:
http://nbawowy.com/imhh2dscorh#/imhh2dscorh
Dame at 56.2 TS and 1.12 PPP, team 111 O rating, 106 D rating

Take LMA off:

52.9 TS, 1.06 PPP, but still led his team to a 108 O rating, 105 D rating

http://nbawowy.com/ireqk0jgcfr#/ireqk0jgcfr

So to me I'd take the guy who has his team winning even if he's not putting up individual numbers as great.

[RCM88x]

I prefer Lillard, but Irving was very impressive in the playoffs and especially in the finals, so yeah, they are roughly equal. I just think Dame would be capable of very similar things if he played alongside LeBron, so that's circumstantial to a significant degree. Kyrie was hardly impressive when he led his own team, Dame certainly had (far) better results when he led the Blazers alongside LMA in 1a/1b scenario.

LeBron being on the floor does not effect Kyries impact at all, there was a whole other topic on this with advanced stats that say Kyrie doesnt benefit at all from being on the floor with LeBron. He is an iso player mostly and thats how he scores by creating for himself off dribble.

Dame also had far better results when he led his own team because he played with the 2nd best PF in the NBA in LMA. Kyrie had to lean on Dion Waiters lol Take away LaMarcus from that team and how do the Blazers look?

End of the day they are very very similar, cant discredit either one. But I will take Kyrie based on last years playoffs and his clutch ability to make big plays happen in big time games and I dont know if Lillard makes the shots Kyrie was making in that Warriors series.

Not sure where this idea is from, because Dame did better with LMA off court than Irving did w/ Lebron off. To add, while his individual numbers are similar and slightly better, his team got beat without Lebron.

Both on court:

http://nbawowy.com/4vpmik6uk9s#/4vpmik6uk9s

Kyrie at 54.2 TS and 1.10 PPP, team 115 O rating 106 D rating

Take Lebron off:
http://nbawowy.com/oiafqja0v9o#/oiafqja0v9o
Kyrie at 55.3 TS and 1.11 PPP, but team 107.3 O rating, 107.8 D rating


Go to 2 years ago, Lillard/LMA both on:
http://nbawowy.com/imhh2dscorh#/imhh2dscorh
Dame at 56.2 TS and 1.12 PPP, team 111 O rating, 106 D rating

Take LMA off:

52.9 TS, 1.06 PPP, but still led his team to a 108 O rating, 105 D rating

http://nbawowy.com/ireqk0jgcfr#/ireqk0jgcfr

So to me I'd take the guy who has his team winning even if he's not putting up individual numbers as great.

Do those numbers include the 2016 regular season? If so I don't think you can put any stock into them, Kyrie wasnt really playing his game until the last month or so of the season.

[Colbinii]

I prefer Lillard, but Irving was very impressive in the playoffs and especially in the finals, so yeah, they are roughly equal. I just think Dame would be capable of very similar things if he played alongside LeBron, so that's circumstantial to a significant degree. Kyrie was hardly impressive when he led his own team, Dame certainly had (far) better results when he led the Blazers alongside LMA in 1a/1b scenario.

LeBron being on the floor does not effect Kyries impact at all, there was a whole other topic on this with advanced stats that say Kyrie doesnt benefit at all from being on the floor with LeBron. He is an iso player mostly and thats how he scores by creating for himself off dribble.

Dame also had far better results when he led his own team because he played with the 2nd best PF in the NBA in LMA. Kyrie had to lean on Dion Waiters lol Take away LaMarcus from that team and how do the Blazers look?

End of the day they are very very similar, cant discredit either one. But I will take Kyrie based on last years playoffs and his clutch ability to make big plays happen in big time games and I dont know if Lillard makes the shots Kyrie was making in that Warriors series.

Not sure where this idea is from, because Dame did better with LMA off court than Irving did w/ Lebron off. To add, while his individual numbers are similar and slightly better, his team got beat without Lebron.

Both on court:

http://nbawowy.com/4vpmik6uk9s#/4vpmik6uk9s

Kyrie at 54.2 TS and 1.10 PPP, team 115 O rating 106 D rating

Take Lebron off:
http://nbawowy.com/oiafqja0v9o#/oiafqja0v9o
Kyrie at 55.3 TS and 1.11 PPP, but team 107.3 O rating, 107.8 D rating


Go to 2 years ago, Lillard/LMA both on:
http://nbawowy.com/imhh2dscorh#/imhh2dscorh
Dame at 56.2 TS and 1.12 PPP, team 111 O rating, 106 D rating

Take LMA off:

52.9 TS, 1.06 PPP, but still led his team to a 108 O rating, 105 D rating

http://nbawowy.com/ireqk0jgcfr#/ireqk0jgcfr

So to me I'd take the guy who has his team winning even if he's not putting up individual numbers as great.

So because Kyrie Irving's team was worse defensively, we are going to pick Damian Lillard? That doesn't make any sense.

Damian Lillard was playing with Nic Batum, Robin Lopez, Wesley Matthews. Kyrie Irving had Shumpert, Jefferson, TT, and Delly.

[bondom34]

LeBron being on the floor does not effect Kyries impact at all, there was a whole other topic on this with advanced stats that say Kyrie doesnt benefit at all from being on the floor with LeBron. He is an iso player mostly and thats how he scores by creating for himself off dribble.

Dame also had far better results when he led his own team because he played with the 2nd best PF in the NBA in LMA. Kyrie had to lean on Dion Waiters lol Take away LaMarcus from that team and how do the Blazers look?

End of the day they are very very similar, cant discredit either one. But I will take Kyrie based on last years playoffs and his clutch ability to make big plays happen in big time games and I dont know if Lillard makes the shots Kyrie was making in that Warriors series.

Not sure where this idea is from, because Dame did better with LMA off court than Irving did w/ Lebron off. To add, while his individual numbers are similar and slightly better, his team got beat without Lebron.

Both on court:

http://nbawowy.com/4vpmik6uk9s#/4vpmik6uk9s

Kyrie at 54.2 TS and 1.10 PPP, team 115 O rating 106 D rating

Take Lebron off:
http://nbawowy.com/oiafqja0v9o#/oiafqja0v9o
Kyrie at 55.3 TS and 1.11 PPP, but team 107.3 O rating, 107.8 D rating


Go to 2 years ago, Lillard/LMA both on:
http://nbawowy.com/imhh2dscorh#/imhh2dscorh
Dame at 56.2 TS and 1.12 PPP, team 111 O rating, 106 D rating

Take LMA off:

52.9 TS, 1.06 PPP, but still led his team to a 108 O rating, 105 D rating

http://nbawowy.com/ireqk0jgcfr#/ireqk0jgcfr

So to me I'd take the guy who has his team winning even if he's not putting up individual numbers as great.

Do those numbers include the 2016 regular season? If so I don't think you can put any stock into them, Kyrie wasnt really playing his game until the last month or so of the season.

Yes, they were everything last year. Sorry, and I know you can use that reasoning, but I'm not throwing away 3/4 of the information I have and using a 20 game sample. That's the same sample size that ends up with Lowry outperforming CP3 and Paul George over Leonard to start every season.

[bondom34]

LeBron being on the floor does not effect Kyries impact at all, there was a whole other topic on this with advanced stats that say Kyrie doesnt benefit at all from being on the floor with LeBron. He is an iso player mostly and thats how he scores by creating for himself off dribble.

Dame also had far better results when he led his own team because he played with the 2nd best PF in the NBA in LMA. Kyrie had to lean on Dion Waiters lol Take away LaMarcus from that team and how do the Blazers look?

End of the day they are very very similar, cant discredit either one. But I will take Kyrie based on last years playoffs and his clutch ability to make big plays happen in big time games and I dont know if Lillard makes the shots Kyrie was making in that Warriors series.

Not sure where this idea is from, because Dame did better with LMA off court than Irving did w/ Lebron off. To add, while his individual numbers are similar and slightly better, his team got beat without Lebron.

Both on court:

http://nbawowy.com/4vpmik6uk9s#/4vpmik6uk9s

Kyrie at 54.2 TS and 1.10 PPP, team 115 O rating 106 D rating

Take Lebron off:
http://nbawowy.com/oiafqja0v9o#/oiafqja0v9o
Kyrie at 55.3 TS and 1.11 PPP, but team 107.3 O rating, 107.8 D rating


Go to 2 years ago, Lillard/LMA both on:
http://nbawowy.com/imhh2dscorh#/imhh2dscorh
Dame at 56.2 TS and 1.12 PPP, team 111 O rating, 106 D rating

Take LMA off:

52.9 TS, 1.06 PPP, but still led his team to a 108 O rating, 105 D rating

http://nbawowy.com/ireqk0jgcfr#/ireqk0jgcfr

So to me I'd take the guy who has his team winning even if he's not putting up individual numbers as great.

So because Kyrie Irving's team was worse defensively, we are going to pick Damian Lillard? That doesn't make any sense.

Did you miss the offense dying too?

[RCM88x]

Not sure where this idea is from, because Dame did better with LMA off court than Irving did w/ Lebron off. To add, while his individual numbers are similar and slightly better, his team got beat without Lebron.

Both on court:

http://nbawowy.com/4vpmik6uk9s#/4vpmik6uk9s

Kyrie at 54.2 TS and 1.10 PPP, team 115 O rating 106 D rating

Take Lebron off:
http://nbawowy.com/oiafqja0v9o#/oiafqja0v9o
Kyrie at 55.3 TS and 1.11 PPP, but team 107.3 O rating, 107.8 D rating


Go to 2 years ago, Lillard/LMA both on:
http://nbawowy.com/imhh2dscorh#/imhh2dscorh
Dame at 56.2 TS and 1.12 PPP, team 111 O rating, 106 D rating

Take LMA off:

52.9 TS, 1.06 PPP, but still led his team to a 108 O rating, 105 D rating

http://nbawowy.com/ireqk0jgcfr#/ireqk0jgcfr

So to me I'd take the guy who has his team winning even if he's not putting up individual numbers as great.

Do those numbers include the 2016 regular season? If so I don't think you can put any stock into them, Kyrie wasnt really playing his game until the last month or so of the season.

Yes, they were everything last year. Sorry, and I know you can use that reasoning, but I'm not throwing away 3/4 of the information I have and using a 20 game sample. That's the same sample size that ends up with Lowry outperforming CP3 and Paul George over Leonard to start every season.

Yea, I can understand that. If I'd make a comparison though, maybe using the 2015 data for Kyrie would give a slightly more accurate picture. However, I can understand your're though process and justification. But I would put very little stock into those statistics.

[Colbinii]

Did you miss the offense dying too?

Is the difference between Portland ORtg at 108 and Cleveland's offense at 107.3 that big of a deal? All these stats show is that LeBron had a much larger impact than LMA.

[bondom34]

Did you miss the offense dying too?

Is the difference between Portland ORtg at 108 and Cleveland's offense at 107.3 that big of a deal? All these stats show is that LeBron had a much larger impact than LMA.

Who on Portland is as good as Love offensively? And to add, if Irving is superior as we're led to believe he should be able to lead a team to a better offense than Portland. I'd value a guy who leads a team to a positive rating over a guy who doesn't/can't.

[Colbinii]

Who on Portland is as good as Love offensively?

Love played less than half the time with Kyrie. In fact, Love was downright awful without LeBron, posted a 49.3 TS%, 42.5 eFG%, and 1.03 PPP.

And to add, if Irving is superior as we're led to believe he should be able to lead a team to a better offense than Portland.

No, because basketball is a team game. I have already stated that Matthews, Batum, and Lopez were better than Shumpert, RJ, and TT.

I'd value a guy who leads a team to a positive rating over a guy who doesn't/can't.

So it is Kyrie Irving's fault that he didn't anchor the defense like Robin Lopez/Batum did?
As for the offensive part, again, the difference is .7 ORtg, which is less than one make per 200 shot attempts, and again, that supporting cast Lillard had is better offensively than what Kyrie had to work with.
This also doesn't take into account that Kyrie was injured for a good portion of this past year. If we look at what happened in 2015, we will see a different picture (funny how that works when a player is actually healthy). Kyrie posted a 57 TS%, 1.15 PPP, 110 ORtg without LeBron.

[bondom34]

Who on Portland is as good as Love offensively?

Love played less than half the time with Kyrie. In fact, Love was downright awful without LeBron, posted a 49.3 TS%, 42.5 eFG%, and 1.03 PPP.

And to add, if Irving is superior as we're led to believe he should be able to lead a team to a better offense than Portland.

No, because basketball is a team game. I have already stated that Matthews, Batum, and Lopez were better than Shumpert, RJ, and TT.

I'd value a guy who leads a team to a positive rating over a guy who doesn't/can't.

So it is Kyrie Irving's fault that he didn't anchor the defense like Robin Lopez/Batum did?
As for the offensive part, again, the difference is .7 ORtg, which is less than one make per 200 shot attempts, and again, that supporting cast Lillard had is better offensively than what Kyrie had to work with.
This also doesn't take into account that Kyrie was injured for a good portion of this past year. If we look at what happened in 2015, we will see a different picture (funny how that works when a player is actually healthy). Kyrie posted a 57 TS%, 1.15 PPP, 110 ORtg without LeBron.

And again was a net negative. Odd how a team w/ Kyrie falls off w/o someone , while a team w/ Lillard doesn't'

[Colbinii]

Who on Portland is as good as Love offensively?

Love played less than half the time with Kyrie. In fact, Love was downright awful without LeBron, posted a 49.3 TS%, 42.5 eFG%, and 1.03 PPP.

And to add, if Irving is superior as we're led to believe he should be able to lead a team to a better offense than Portland.

No, because basketball is a team game. I have already stated that Matthews, Batum, and Lopez were better than Shumpert, RJ, and TT.

I'd value a guy who leads a team to a positive rating over a guy who doesn't/can't.

So it is Kyrie Irving's fault that he didn't anchor the defense like Robin Lopez/Batum did?
As for the offensive part, again, the difference is .7 ORtg, which is less than one make per 200 shot attempts, and again, that supporting cast Lillard had is better offensively than what Kyrie had to work with.
This also doesn't take into account that Kyrie was injured for a good portion of this past year. If we look at what happened in 2015, we will see a different picture (funny how that works when a player is actually healthy). Kyrie posted a 57 TS%, 1.15 PPP, 110 ORtg without LeBron.

And again was a net negative. Odd how a team w/ Kyrie falls off w/o someone , while a team w/ Lillard doesn't'

Both teams got worse when LMA/LeBron sat. Lillard had better players around him.
There is no way you should be coming to a conclusion about who is better based on what these players TEAMS did without their stars, but if you want to, go for it.