Who, in your opinion are the BEST 5 rbs ever regardless of career rushing yards, etc

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Re: Who, in your opinion are the BEST 5 rbs ever regardless of career rushing yards, etc 

Post#21 » by RavenMad31 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:57 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RavenMad31 wrote:One stat that always slipped through the cracks about Emmitt Smith, and I feel it's especially important because I feel way to much of the credit he deserves is carelessly tossed over to his O-line, is that Smith consistently would lead the league in yards after contact. This means that he was still responsible for creating a lot of his own yards. Emmitt never just got hit and tackled. There would almost always be a lean or push for one or two more yards. He was elusive, powerful, fast and incredibly durable. You don't set the all time rushing record by just having an great offensive line. You can have a good year, like Murray, but Smith has more rushing yards than anyone in history. I'll point to something else concerning Smith and offensive lines. In 2004, at the age of 35 freaking years old, he manages a 900+ yard season with 9 TDs playing behind a garbage offensive line in Arizona with Josh McCown as the main passing threat to force defenses to empty the box.


That stat is nice to point out, however, when we are talking about the greatest backs ever, I'd rather see the comparison in that stat with them, not the other backs in the league at the time. It's not like the league was full of really good and great backs.

That year in AZ he only averaged 3.5 yards a carry after averaging 2.8 ypc the year before. Despite the great OL, he still, in most years, averaged 4 or fewer ypc or slightly over that. For his career he averaged 4.2 ypc as opposed to Sanders' 5.0.

Another thing about yards after contact, is that when you are a downfield runner with a great OL, you are able to build a head of steam and barrel into defenders, as opposed to Barry Sanders, being elusive or untouched, but once hit, usually not having run with the power and speed because of the way he had to run. He also often would run into the line, probably be touched, and then turn around and go the other way entirely and maybe only eventually get back to the line of scrimmage, so he may not have been great with that stat.


Well, his career did overlap with Jerome Bettis, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Ricky Watters and Terrell Davis. Those guys are all either in the Hall of Fame or could make an argument for themselves.
I'd normally rag on someone for a sub-4 ypc (ahem, Jerome Bettis), but if you're 35 years old and still putting on cleats so you can carry the ball for a useless Arizona Cardinals team, I'll give you a pass. The fact that you wake up in the morning and actually want to do it is impressive.
During what you would consider the "meat" of his career. For a RB, let's call it every year up to age 29, he was under 4 his rookie season and one other, which could very well be an outlier due to a nagging injury of some kind, however, I don't know his injury history or care to make excuses. So, 4 of his 6 seasons where he was under 4 per carry came at age 32 or later when the Dallas dynasty was crumbling or he was in the ruins of Arizona.
Also, given their contrast in running styles, Barry Sanders would actually be taken out in most situations which would have required some sacrifice to his YPC, which were goal line and third and short. Even 2 of those per game can drop your yards per carry by about .3 to .5 yards depending on carries in a season. More than likely, a RB is seeing something closer to about 3-5 of those carries per game.
That's a great counter point to the yards after contact and frankly, I have very little to say to that since it makes perfect sense.
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Re: Who, in your opinion are the BEST 5 rbs ever regardless of career rushing yards, etc 

Post#22 » by bwgood77 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:01 pm

RavenMad31 wrote:
Well, his career did overlap with Jerome Bettis, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Ricky Watters and Terrell Davis. Those guys are all either in the Hall of Fame or could make an argument for themselves.
I'd normally rag on someone for a sub-4 ypc (ahem, Jerome Bettis), but if you're 35 years old and still putting on cleats so you can carry the ball for a useless Arizona Cardinals team, I'll give you a pass. The fact that you wake up in the morning and actually want to do it is impressive.
During what you would consider the "meat" of his career. For a RB, let's call it every year up to age 29, he was under 4 his rookie season and one other, which could very well be an outlier due to a nagging injury of some kind, however, I don't know his injury history or care to make excuses. So, 4 of his 6 seasons where he was under 4 per carry came at age 32 or later when the Dallas dynasty was crumbling or he was in the ruins of Arizona.
Also, given their contrast in running styles, Barry Sanders would actually be taken out in most situations which would have required some sacrifice to his YPC, which were goal line and third and short. Even 2 of those per game can drop your yards per carry by about .3 to .5 yards depending on carries in a season. More than likely, a RB is seeing something closer to about 3-5 of those carries per game.
That's a great counter point to the yards after contact and frankly, I have very little to say to that since it makes perfect sense.


I was trying to find a stat for yards after contact for all time and for just a year (not extensive research, but a few minutes) and couldn't find one. Do you know if this is tracked anywhere?
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Re: Who, in your opinion are the BEST 5 rbs ever regardless of career rushing yards, etc 

Post#23 » by RavenMad31 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:06 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RavenMad31 wrote:
Well, his career did overlap with Jerome Bettis, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Ricky Watters and Terrell Davis. Those guys are all either in the Hall of Fame or could make an argument for themselves.
I'd normally rag on someone for a sub-4 ypc (ahem, Jerome Bettis), but if you're 35 years old and still putting on cleats so you can carry the ball for a useless Arizona Cardinals team, I'll give you a pass. The fact that you wake up in the morning and actually want to do it is impressive.
During what you would consider the "meat" of his career. For a RB, let's call it every year up to age 29, he was under 4 his rookie season and one other, which could very well be an outlier due to a nagging injury of some kind, however, I don't know his injury history or care to make excuses. So, 4 of his 6 seasons where he was under 4 per carry came at age 32 or later when the Dallas dynasty was crumbling or he was in the ruins of Arizona.
Also, given their contrast in running styles, Barry Sanders would actually be taken out in most situations which would have required some sacrifice to his YPC, which were goal line and third and short. Even 2 of those per game can drop your yards per carry by about .3 to .5 yards depending on carries in a season. More than likely, a RB is seeing something closer to about 3-5 of those carries per game.
That's a great counter point to the yards after contact and frankly, I have very little to say to that since it makes perfect sense.


I was trying to find a stat for yards after contact for all time and for just a year (not extensive research, but a few minutes) and couldn't find one. Do you know if this is tracked anywhere?

Pro football Reference is my go-to and if they don't track it, I don't know who would. The best I could go by is what the TV would tell me during Cowboy games at the time. I find it strange that if they had stats for that then, that it isn't recorded and available somewhere.
It's definitely being recorded, and quite meticulously. https://www.profootballfocus.com/running-back-breakdown-yards-after-contact/
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Re: Who, in your opinion are the BEST 5 rbs ever regardless of career rushing yards, etc 

Post#24 » by bwgood77 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:32 pm

RavenMad31 wrote:It's definitely being recorded, and quite meticulously. https://www.profootballfocus.com/running-back-breakdown-yards-after-contact/


Yes, I saw a few things on PFF, but nothing historically.
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Re: Who, in your opinion are the BEST 5 rbs ever regardless of career rushing yards, etc 

Post#25 » by bluejerseyjinx » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:49 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RavenMad31 wrote:In no particular order:
Emmitt Smith: the foundation of possibly the best of the dynasty teams
Jim Brown: Still 10th in rushing after playing only 9 12-14 game seasons.
Payton: I guess I have to put him on here. I might be biased because I never paid attention to the Bears until the '85 season. Also, back then a star RB and a little defense should have been enough to make you pretty good and the Bears were pretty damn bad most of his career.
Barry Sanders: Again, I guess I have to put him here. So fun to watch, but I'd build my real life offense around Smith rather than Sanders.
OJ: Picture some combination of Marcus Allen and Barry Sanders with more power

Okay, that was my diplomatic list. Here's my troller list. Think more along the lines of 5 RBs I'd make the cornerstone of my offense.
Herschel Walker: No reason that in better situations that he wouldn't be a top 3 all time rusher. If he called me today, 10/10/2016, I'd give him a tryout.
Jim Brown: See above.
Eric Dickerson: Goggles
Bo Jackson: Because Tecmo Super Bowl and because I honestly think so.
Jamal Lewis: Because F U, that's why. Lol.

What I've learned trying to do this is that in my time, there has probably been about 15 or more RBs that played at an all time great level and none of them are appreciably better or worse than the others. A lot of it depends on preference of running style. BJJ, if you don't edit your post and include Emmitt Smith, I am personally coming to take away your Cowboy card.


I think Emmitt Smith was a great RB, but I think he benefited big time from having a GREAT offensive line. Much like DeMarco Murray. Over 1,800 yards one year with Cowboys and great OL and then 702 the next on a new team? McFadden over 1000 last year? Emmitt was a great downfield runner, but I wouldn't put him top 5 as best.

I always would take Barry Sanders, playing with a bad OL, over him, with his awesome elusive skills.

As far as the Cowboys, I'd also take Tony Dorsett over him as he had elusive skills similar to Barry Sanders. If you haven't seen Dorsett highlights.


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Re: Who, in your opinion are the BEST 5 rbs ever regardless of career rushing yards, etc 

Post#26 » by LAKESHOW » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:09 am

Brown. OJ. Barry. Dickerson. Faulk. AP.
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Re: Who, in your opinion are the BEST 5 rbs ever regardless of career rushing yards, etc 

Post#27 » by Worm Guts » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:20 am

The 3 best pure runners I've seen are Bo, Barry, and AP. Faulk and Tomlinson get mentions as the best overall backs I've seen. The caveat is that is from when I started watching the NFL in '87.

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