Are Suns bad at developing young players?

[Damkac]

Everyone is complaining about Len playing poor. He is young player and should be better with each season but that's not what we see. He gets more points, rebounds and assists each year but after his 2nd season he somehow forgot how to block shots and finish in the paint. From 7'1 center you should expect good rim protection and >50% 2pt scoring.
Archie was hero of the last game but it don't change the fact that he is the same player since he was drafted. None of his weaknesses get any better. He just go thoughtless to the basket and sometimes it results in highlight play. Much more often it results in turnover or missed shot. His shooting is as bad as it was. So is his bb iq.
Warren's circus shots looks very nice but he don't have much to offer except them. I was happy with his improved 3pt shooting last year but it looks like he went back to being absolute no threat from perimeter. He is still bad rebounder, defender and can't make even the simple pass. I think he is more bench scorer than starter. I also don't like the fact that though he is only scoring near the basket he don't get any free throws. His style of play is very ineffective and only think that save him is his ability to make difficult shots.

So I was wondering: is this because of those players limitations or it's because Suns can't develop their young talent properly?
I don't like that none of their weaknesses has been fixed even a bit. Except of Warren's 3pt shooting in 2nd year but it looks like once again he is scared of even trying to shoot from distance.

On the other hand Booker looks like he is progressing but maybe he is just that talented. Chriss also seems to already made progress since summer league.

[batsmasher]

It's pretty impossible to tell. Ya can't really say "this guy is developing and it has nothing to do the Suns player development" and "this guy isn't developing and it has everything to do with the Suns player development".

My gut says if Len was drafted by another team he wouldn't be facing the same issues as he has on the Suns. They're glaringly obvious issues, and they're all mental. With that being said, they were the same issues he had coming out of college, so who's to tell if he's just not receptive to changing his mentality.

Archie, Archie, Archie. I don't believe this has much to do with the Suns. Blinkered players don't learn about court awareness overnight. Archie hasn't learnt about it in 4 years. Look around the league, there's probably 1 or 2 blinkered guys who have developed in to more team-oriented players. JR Smith is one, DeMar Derozan is another. Archie is gonna have to fight against the odds to become a competent NBA player. However, if the Suns had fixed his shot, we proably wouldn't even be talking about him in this context. That shot is still as broke as when he came into the league. Blame the shooting coach.

TJ hasn't really had enough court time to pass judgment on. Give him a full healty season (fingers crossed) and see where he's at.

[NTB]

TJ has improved a lot on defense though.

[Saberestar]

I don't think so. The staff and the coaches can help them, but the most important factor is the player himself.
All that can be said about every young player who is in the league right now. The team can influence him, but HE is the X factor in his development.

Len isn't a finished product yet, we can't talk about him like an old guy who is regressing for his age.
He reminds me of Robin Lopez when he was here, because he didn't progress a lot the first four years in the NBA and some of us thought that he was even regressing after his second year in the league.

I was wrong and Robin Lopez has been a serviceable starting C in the league for years now, so that can happen with Len too. I believe in his potential yet because he is only 23, I think he can be our starting C for years to come. He just has to focus in defense and rebounding and "forget" the offense (just put backs, broken plays, screens...). He can put around 10p/10r/2b easily with the correct mentality.

I don't agree with you about Warren. I think he has played two terrific games (the first one against the Jazz and against The Blazers) showing a big improvement on defense and overall awareness of the game. The last game in Utah was a bad one, but that could be said for all the team but Booker in the first half.

I agree with you about the shooting and the passing, he needs to improve in those areas...but defense is the most important thing that he needed to correct to start for us this season and I think that he has made a good job about it. We will see more tonight.

[jcsunsfan]

I think it's more about impatient fans. TJ Warren has played pretty well and is improving. He missed more than half a season with an injury.

Archie was uncoachable at Kentucky. That's why he was drafted where he was. The fact that he is still on a roster is an overachievement for his draft position

Len is still developing. He has underachieved his draft status. Many do.

Who, actually would it be that is not developing young players? This is a completely different coaching staff than was here last year at this time. And Horny was only here a short time.

The Suns developed Booker. PJ Tucker and Dudley came into their own as Suns. So did Leandro. Even though he was a hot head, Markieff developed into a decent starting forward as a Sun.

I don't think the Suns are exceptional at developing young players. But they are not bad at it. The only team in the league that seems to do it well is San Antonio. But they make uncannily good choices in the players they acquire and they have a very stable coaching and management environment.


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[Qwigglez]

Great topic.
I think it absolutely has everything to do with the player themselves. Some players seem to be happy just making it to the NBA, some players only care about the money, and some players actually want to win.

Alex Len has a ton of mental issues. He was getting his ass whooped by Gobert and he was mad about it. He tried to dunk it in his face but ended up getting stuffed. At least he is trying. It's too bad he seems to be regressing though because I was hoping he'd be a lot like JV. There is still hope but I am having a hard time believing in him right now. I think maybe the best bet is to start Chandler, have Len play against opposing bench players to get his confidence back up. I don't want to give up on Len because I think one year it'll just click. He has all the tools, he just needs to figure it all out IMO.

Archie hasn't improved his weaknesses much. I'll admit his 3PT has gotten slightly better, a little higher arc, but not much. He just has a broken jumper and all he wants to do is drive. I can see him having a ton of success overseas because he is just simply more athletic than the competition, but then I see him trying to make a return to the NBA where he will again just be a bench warmer.

TJ Warren is just shaking off the rust I'm hoping. His mid-range shot put thing he has going hasn't been connecting like it was last year and I just think it's from him growing and having to adjust to that. He needs the confidence to shoot that 3 again too. I also think he isn't getting the ball in his sweet spot from 3. I'm not down on him at all and I think he'll see improvement as the season goes on.

Chriss is showing massive potential I was unaware of from his college highlight tapes. I know he is uber athletic, but I think he can actually improve his leaping ability next summer while gaining 10-15lbs of muscle. He has good enough mechanics on his jumpshot that I can see it improving every year. That spin move needs perfecting but it's something I'm enjoying because you don't see it much from a big. He's very immature at times and this is where he needs guidance from our staff as well as the players.

Bender needs a lot of work but you can see his foundation already. I like that he does all the dirty work. It's hard to find young guys that are willing to grab the boards, engage on defense. His shot is flat, which is funny because he's a 7 footer. Hopefully he works with Dirk over the summer or someone that can teach him to shoot with an arc.


*edit* forgot to mention I do not believe the Suns are bad at developing players. I don't like to use this example but we developed Kieff into a pretty solid starter. I'd say he has the potential to be an above average starter and quite possibly a border line All-star type stats. I don't think we are the best at it, I'd say the Spurs, Thunder, Warriors are probably the best right now. Then again, it could just come down to the players.

[jcsunsfan]

Lets see how we do at developing this young man. I think the NBA needs to let teams sign and keep draft picks for development, and lock up UDFA's for development in the developmental league. More young players would get more attention and help.

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[LukasBMW]

Booker turned out OK.

TJ is showing promise.

Chriss looks to be learning quickly.

Len and Archie were drafted in one of the worst draft classes ever. The top pick in the draft is no longer even in the league. Not one player drafted has actually made an allstar team. The best players drafted went 10, 15, and 27 meaning that most teams totally missed the boat, not just us.

[jcsunsfan]

Booker turned out OK.

TJ is showing promise.

Chriss looks to be learning quickly.

Len and Archie were drafted in one of the worst draft classes ever. The top pick in the draft is no longer even in the league. Not one player drafted has actually made an allstar team. The best players drafted went 10, 15, and 27 meaning that most teams totally missed the boat, not just us.

So you are saying it's not about the ability to develop players. . .?


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[MrMiyagi]

I'm going to say that most teams aren't very good at developing young talent, and a lot of times it tends to be a matter of players figuring things out for themselves. I feel like centers tend to be failed the most across the board when it comes to being developed, because post play footwork tends to be a difficult thing to teach. They're used to being the biggest guys on the court, playing bully ball or just going over the top of defenders that when they're faced with other bigs, they're deficiencies really show.

Len isn't as bad as people like to say, but given the market for bigs, his deficiencies loom larger with the impending double digit million dollar pay day.

[Blackification]

I'm going to say that most teams aren't very good at developing young talent, and a lot of times it tends to be a matter of players figuring things out for themselves. I feel like centers tend to be failed the most across the board when it comes to being developed, because post play footwork tends to be a difficult thing to teach. They're used to being the biggest guys on the court, playing bully ball or just going over the top of defenders that when they're faced with other bigs, they're deficiencies really show.

Len isn't as bad as people like to say, but given the market for bigs, his deficiencies loom larger with the impending double digit million dollar pay day.

The money is a good point, you draft someone at 19 or 20 and by the time they figure things out its payday time and in some cases like Len he might get it in a year or two but do you risk giving him all that money? Its getting harder with so many one and dones. Unless its a KAT type player, drafting a big man that high in the draft when they are so young is like the biggest gamble you can take in the draft.

Bender is like going for the jackpot to be honest

[bwgood77]

TJ has just come off injury and has played in four games with rookies getting a lot of time. He had barely played with a guy like Knight up to now as well. I wouldn't judge him too much yet. He is starting for the first time as well.

[kennydorglas]

Len&Goodwin still being bad is pretty much all on them.
Tho the only franchise who really develop his players is SAS as I refuse to give their scouting credit for landing Kawhi.