The Official Lin Net Thread

[Tracymcgoaty]

So Lin will be in the HOF deservedly but Yao doesnt? Yao had it all man you serious? much better player than Lin is right now.

[hood30]

Here's Lin's stats for 3 preseason games..I know it's just preseason, but still fun to check.

In 22mpg on 3 games, Lin is averaging 16.3ppg......4.1 assist....57.7 FG%.......50% 3PT%....75% FT..

That's at best Lin's bottom number..I see him do no worst when regular season starts....Lin ceiling may be around 18ppg and 6 assists if he plays about 32 minutes per game....He'll probably go back to record high FG% around 44%.....I'm not sure he'll shoot very well from 3PT.....At the very least, I'd take 35%

[Prokorov]

I do understand that it's a big weakness but does the starters' defense deserve the label "putrid" just cuz of it?

yes. we werent the worst team in the league last year because of some fluke. foye and booker help, but they arent elite defenders. its one of those things hard to see on paper... lopez isnt a bad defender, but he really makes it an uphill battle to be good defensively as a team. you just cant do the things you need to succeed defensively in todays nba with him at center.

the year he got hurt and KG was center it was night and day for us defensively, especially against the 3pt shot

Well.....it's KG.......

Foye, Booker and Lin are not elite but they're certainly much better than Ellington, old JJ, Larkin, JJ, Sloan and Thad. RHJ should have improved quite a bit now.

Not to mention Atkinson can stagger Brook's minutes and put Hamilton on the floor with the starters sometimes.

Well, let's just hope you guys are wrong. The D might be bad but shouldn't be putrid. Atkinson says defense first, ball movement second. He had experience with the Hawks who were a great defensive team. Guys are gonna scrap and hustle.

being better then larkin/sloan/thad doesnt matter... if you dont have elite defenders, your not making up for the massive bind not being able to defend the 1- 5 pick roll has on a team defense.

you need to pinch in your wings to help on the rolling big, and you need to rotate back to the corner and wing and you need to do it without being able on your center to recover enough for you to rotate quickly. it requires elite instincts, elite bbiq, and elite athleticism.

are we gonna be better on D? probably. but i cant see us not being bottom 10 as long as lopez and bogs are logging big minutes.

[Prokorov]

Here's Lin's stats for 3 preseason games..I know it's just preseason, but still fun to check.

In 22mpg on 3 games, Lin is averaging 16.3ppg......4.1 assist....57.7 FG%.......50% 3PT%....75% FT..

That's at best Lin's bottom number..I see him do no worst when regular season starts....Lin ceiling may be around 18ppg and 6 assists if he plays about 32 minutes per game....He'll probably go back to record high FG% around 44%.....I'm not sure he'll shoot very well from 3PT.....At the very least, I'd take 35%

18 is not his ceiling. i can see him getting to 20+ ppg. he is aggresive as hell and there arent alot of guys who are going to require touches on offense for us. and brook wont care if lin leads the team in shots or scoring.

i think lin averages like 20/7 or 22/7 for his ceiling.

that should be attainable with how aggressive he is, how few guys we have who need high volume, and how bad we project to be

[GoodDayLa]

Also there is no comparison to Yao, Yao was the best center in the league for a couple of years. Lin has never been the best at his position nor will he.

Yao was not the best center in the league at any time. Please don't insult Shaquille O'Neal. Yao was a one way player who couldn't dunk on Nate Robinson or play defense despite giving 100% effort. He's in the HOF because he's from China and made a handful of all star games, most of which NBA fans from China voted for.

WTF??? While Yao wasn't the best center in the league he was still a top 20 player in the sport at that time and a top 2-3 big man.

Yao Ming's numbers were excellent across the board and his defensive metrics are all in the positive, and was on 5 all nba teams. Saying he was a one way player is utterly ridiculous he averaged 2 blocks for his career

troll harder

Look everyone sees things different. Some people don't even think Michael Jordan was one of the best to ever play and was mainly a Nike and TV hype machine.

You have me saying Yao was an ok center who could really score but not offer much else. His immobility to me made him a liability on both ends playing in the playoffs and trying to beat people. Yao moves about as fast as Anthony Bennett and that's not a good thing. He could give you 30 a night but usually it was a loss. You can blame Steve Francis or Tracy Mac but Yao didn't help the cause. He did start getting pretty scary and then broke his foot so we never got to that point. I feel bad for him on that.

Then you have Leeramundo who said Yao was "the best center in the league for a couple of years." So here is another guy who thinks Yao was #1 and better than Shaquille O'Neal. Sounds crazy to me, but that's what this person thinks.

Then there's you with a reasonable perspective on Yao as well and it's supported by metrics which I can respect.

Now I definitely stand by saying Yao was a 1 way player, not because of lack of effort, but lack of mobility. He was too big and too slow and could not rotate and move his body quickly enough to be active enough on both ends. He was also a weak finisher though he was a physical beast and imposed his body on defenders.

I view Yao the same way I view Carmelo Anthony. Good players with some special gifts that make them stand out. But in the end, not enough real impact on the game in terms of leading their teams to champsionshps or competing for one. Now if Yao was in Ben Wallace's shoes and in Detroit? Maybe Yao would have won a championship with that squad. Who knows.

[Roy Tarpley]

Yeah, given Atkinson's motion offense, I would up Lin's points and lower his assists. Originally, I thought around 18/8 but now I see 19/7 or 20/6, with percentages of 44/81/36.

[GoodDayLa]

Here's Lin's stats for 3 preseason games..I know it's just preseason, but still fun to check.

In 22mpg on 3 games, Lin is averaging 16.3ppg......4.1 assist....57.7 FG%.......50% 3PT%....75% FT..

That's at best Lin's bottom number..I see him do no worst when regular season starts....Lin ceiling may be around 18ppg and 6 assists if he plays about 32 minutes per game....He'll probably go back to record high FG% around 44%.....I'm not sure he'll shoot very well from 3PT.....At the very least, I'd take 35%

18 is not his ceiling. i can see him getting to 20+ ppg. he is aggresive as hell and there arent alot of guys who are going to require touches on offense for us. and brook wont care if lin leads the team in shots or scoring.

i think lin averages like 20/7 or 22/7 for his ceiling.

that should be attainable with how aggressive he is, how few guys we have who need high volume, and how bad we project to be

There are reasons why I don't believe Lin will average more than 18-19 points a game by seasons' end. Yes, he could start off averaging 24 or 12 PPG through 5 games. I think he'll even out around 17-19 PPG as well after 82 games.

1. Lin wants to win games so we won't be gunning for points. He understands he must sacrifice his stats to force the team to rise up to a level where it gets competitive and teammates start getting confidence. Lin knows he can't win games alone so he'll give up 5 PPG so Anthony Bennett and RHJ etc can get up a few extra shots and get some confidence. He's been this way for years.

2. Kenny wants to create an offense greater than 1 guy so it's not reliant on Lin and becomes a self sustaining machine. If Lin or anyone else goes down, Kenny wants to create a somewhat sustainable offense so they're going to spread the wealth for better or worse. They'll even lose games doing this initially, Brook and Lin's stats will suffer, but hopefully it clicks by all star break.

3. I believe other teams and players don't really want Lin to shine too much so they'll let other guys on the team score and get open looks rather than have Lin torch them. Lin's an interesting kid. If any coach is stupid enough to dare Lin to beat them by scoring all game with single coverage, Lin is the rare guy who can actually do it and punish the defense and then shut down that scoring mindset immediately when the defense changes.

That's why Gm5 in the Hornets Heat series was so impressive. The Heat thought Lin was just going to dribble and attack without really thinking like he did in gm 3 and 4. And then in the first half, they sprung traps on Lin midway in game 5 and he was completely prepared for it. It got no press except from retired Isiah Thomas who definitely noticed and spoke up about it. And the other guy who noticed was coach Clifford who was saw what was going on and benched a flustered Kemba Walker in the 2nd half and went to Lin at PG which is something Coach Clifford never once did before.

When his back was against the wall, Cliff went with Lin. It shocked me Coach Cliff did that. But then in gm6 and gm7, the Hornets shocked me even more shutting Lin down. People who didn't pay attention didn't even realize this stuff happened.

Lin is going to put this Net team on his back doing what he did in Game 5 of the playoffs often. It's similar to how he played last night versus the Celtics except that he was much more sharp after 82 games with the Hornets by then and learned his teammates.

Nobody will notice the PG with 14-15 points, 7 assists, 3 rbs, 2 steals. Likely other teammates will have bigger stats. But as long as they win, it's all good. This is why I dont expect Lin to make the all star game this season even if the team does well.

[Prokorov]

i disagree with 100% of that. the nets have no chance to win if lin isnt scoring big. even if he does score big we might not win. you dont sacrafice scoring on a team that desperately needs guys who can score. he needs to score and to facilitate.

teams "not wanting lin to shine" is absurd

we will be bad healthy. if we get injrued we have 0 shot. we will have a ball movement offense, but you still need your best players to score big. we only really have 2 or 3 good players. lin is one.

i cant see any scenario where lin scores less then 17-18 ppg. 20 is well within reach.

[NBAMythbuster]

The Nets really hit it out of the park with this guy. He's going to be the central factor in them being more competitive this year, attendance is going to go up, media interest is going to go up, and he came at a cheap price. He's also just a likable guy to follow (until he starts talking about religion anyway).

[Kswiss]

i disagree with 100% of that. the nets have no chance to win if lin isnt scoring big. even if he does score big we might not win. you dont sacrafice scoring on a team that desperately needs guys who can score. he needs to score and to facilitate.

teams "not wanting lin to shine" is absurd

we will be bad healthy. if we get injrued we have 0 shot. we will have a ball movement offense, but you still need your best players to score big. we only really have 2 or 3 good players. lin is one.

i cant see any scenario where lin scores less then 17-18 ppg. 20 is well within reach.

I agree completely and I gotta say GoodDayLay guy is either a weirdo or a troll not sure lol. Just chill out dude, you're scaring me. I think Lin will have to put up 20 a game because we really don't have any better offensive option besides maybe Lopez

[TinmanZBoy]

Screw Mchale / Morey, he is a bad coach. Plus he had an axe to grind to against Lin , it was so obvious. Harden/Lin backcourt could have worked, if not for him.

McHale is not a bad coach, not a great coach either, but he is a good coach... Lin/Harden backcourt worked fine, one of the best at the time... it is just the Beverley/Harden, Lin sixth man combinations made the team more balanced and deeper... Being the sixth man of a team is not a slight, nothing to be shamed of ... if it were not for Bosh, they would not have traded Lin... all in all, Lin was pretty solid in Rockets, but he would never be Linsanity in Rockets, it is that simple, he will not have the ball with Harden in the picture....
it really boils down to how lin sees himself as a player... if he wants to settle to be a sixth man, or a leading guard to run a team, we know the answer now...

Na, na, McDumbBell is not really a good coach. He's good at letting the players play. He's terrible at Xs and Os, he spoiled his stars, he put the ball in Harden's hand, alienating everyone else except for Bev. He doesn't hold his stars accountable, especially on D, demoralizing the team. Passing PGs don't make good 6th men. It was a terrible decision, the point guard's supposed to pass the ball to the scorers like Dwight, instead of just giving the ball to the scorer and stand in the corner. He tired Harden out by letting him do everything on offense. Now they have only role players except for Harden on the team in Houston that would work better but they won't ever be a contender, like when they had a chance with Lin (as starting facilitating PG), Harden (should have been SG), Parsons, whoever at PF and Dwight. That team should have been contending for championship for a long time. His offense was chaotic, he couldn't coach defense very well either, except for saying "play harder", "the ball sticks". He relied too much on Harden drawing cheap fouls, didn't work in the playoffs except for that meltdown by the Clippers. He couldn't do anything about the problems and he's a bad teacher. What an opportunity wasted cuz of this McDimwitHell. Imagine if there was an actual good coach at the helm? They should have fired him much much sooner and gotten a real coach. But hey, he obeyed Morey, what do you do? (like asking Lin not to shoot midrange Js)

nah, coach McHale was fine, not a good x and o coach, but his feel for the game is good, he is quick to adjustments, flexible...He does not believe Lin as much as you do, that does not make him a bad coach...
you guys put too much Lin's demise on coach McHale... If Lin were playing for a coach like Clifford right after Linsanity season, he would have struggled more...you guys would have buried coach Clifford and claimed him to be the worst coach in the history...
Coach McHale never had a losing season in Houston, even after the season Rockets lost their Franchise star Yao, McGrady, they almost made the playoff... Even with Harden, Lin, most people wrote the Rockets off, they made the playoff became a good young and coming team, the running and gunning strategy worked... he did alright...

[MrDollarBills]

i disagree with 100% of that. the nets have no chance to win if lin isnt scoring big. even if he does score big we might not win. you dont sacrafice scoring on a team that desperately needs guys who can score. he needs to score and to facilitate.

teams "not wanting lin to shine" is absurd

we will be bad healthy. if we get injrued we have 0 shot. we will have a ball movement offense, but you still need your best players to score big. we only really have 2 or 3 good players. lin is one.

i cant see any scenario where lin scores less then 17-18 ppg. 20 is well within reach.

I agree with this 100%. Lin and Lopez needs to be giving us 40-46+ pts a night at bare minimum.

The first unit is primarily the two man attack of Lopez and Lin. RHJ/Booker are going to get dirty work scores. Foye has GOT to hit the deep ball for this to work.

[GoodDayLa]

i disagree with 100% of that. the nets have no chance to win if lin isnt scoring big. even if he does score big we might not win. you dont sacrafice scoring on a team that desperately needs guys who can score. he needs to score and to facilitate.

teams "not wanting lin to shine" is absurd

we will be bad healthy. if we get injrued we have 0 shot. we will have a ball movement offense, but you still need your best players to score big. we only really have 2 or 3 good players. lin is one.

i cant see any scenario where lin scores less then 17-18 ppg. 20 is well within reach.

I think Lin could average 30PPG and 10APG this season if he was about the stats and didn't care about the W/L record. But his calling card is efficiency and team productivity. Contrary to you thinking Lin needs to score big, Lin's going to try to get the team going every night. And because of that, you'll see more balanaced scoring like in the Boston game with 6-8 guys in double figures and not 1 guy going for 30+ very often.

Lin and Brook and possibly Bojan will have their big scoring nights. But in the end, there will be balanced scoring.

I'd love to see Lin average 25,12,5,4 if he were on an Mike D'Antoni team. But he's not and Atkinson wants to form a stable offense. I have a sneaking suspicion Atkinson also doesn't want to wear out Lin or Brook by over relying on them. Atkinson talks a lot of about not over training and not wearing yourself out.

One of Lin's best games was season 2 in Houston against Minnesota on the road. His stats were nothing but he completely dominated the game with the pass and hockey assists. People boxscore surfing would have never known.

When Lin says stuff like he did in Boston postgame, he's hinting already they'll compete this season and he expects to win games and compete with anyone. You can bet against me, but you'll regret betting against Lin.

[Paradise]

I'd love to see Jeremy use that swing through move when he's attacking the rim to get more foul calls. If he can get to the line at least 10 times per game he can definitely become a 20-22 point scorer.

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[tonman]

points are meaningless. field goal attempts are better gauge as Lin should remain efficient 1.2+ pps. Therefore if Lin manages to shoot 15 fga, he should score 18-20 ppg.

but the fga may vary as I'd like to see 6-7 free throws per game. that means he's not in love with the three and is attacking.

so let's not get to carried away with points. for lin to be effective, he needs to make the defense play him and that will make his teammates job easier.

[ChokeFasncists]

So Lin is averaging 25 pp36 in the preseason.

[ChokeFasncists]

Yao was not the best center in the league at any time. Please don't insult Shaquille O'Neal. Yao was a one way player who couldn't dunk on Nate Robinson or play defense despite giving 100% effort. He's in the HOF because he's from China and made a handful of all star games, most of which NBA fans from China voted for.

WTF??? While Yao wasn't the best center in the league he was still a top 20 player in the sport at that time and a top 2-3 big man.

Yao Ming's numbers were excellent across the board and his defensive metrics are all in the positive, and was on 5 all nba teams. Saying he was a one way player is utterly ridiculous he averaged 2 blocks for his career

troll harder

Look everyone sees things different. Some people don't even think Michael Jordan was one of the best to ever play and was mainly a Nike and TV hype machine.

You have me saying Yao was an ok center who could really score but not offer much else. His immobility to me made him a liability on both ends playing in the playoffs and trying to beat people. Yao moves about as fast as Anthony Bennett and that's not a good thing. He could give you 30 a night but usually it was a loss. You can blame Steve Francis or Tracy Mac but Yao didn't help the cause. He did start getting pretty scary and then broke his foot so we never got to that point. I feel bad for him on that.

Then you have Leeramundo who said Yao was "the best center in the league for a couple of years." So here is another guy who thinks Yao was #1 and better than Shaquille O'Neal. Sounds crazy to me, but that's what this person thinks.

Then there's you with a reasonable perspective on Yao as well and it's supported by metrics which I can respect.

Now I definitely stand by saying Yao was a 1 way player, not because of lack of effort, but lack of mobility. He was too big and too slow and could not rotate and move his body quickly enough to be active enough on both ends. He was also a weak finisher though he was a physical beast and imposed his body on defenders.

I view Yao the same way I view Carmelo Anthony. Good players with some special gifts that make them stand out. But in the end, not enough real impact on the game in terms of leading their teams to champsionshps or competing for one. Now if Yao was in Ben Wallace's shoes and in Detroit? Maybe Yao would have won a championship with that squad. Who knows.

Yao's biggest problem was he had too little rest, had to play for the national team. Ridiculous.

[hood30]

points are meaningless. field goal attempts are better gauge as Lin should remain efficient 1.2+ pps. Therefore if Lin manages to shoot 15 fga, he should score 18-20 ppg.

but the fga may vary as I'd like to see 6-7 free throws per game. that means he's not in love with the three and is attacking.

so let's not get to carried away with points. for lin to be effective, he needs to make the defense play him and that will make his teammates job easier.

If the motion offense is deployed heavily, I'm not sure Lin will hit the high numbers that some believe he'll do easily.

It looks like Kenny wants a very balanced offense instead of just relying on Lin/Lopez to take half of the shot attempt.

I still think Lin could average about 16-17 point per game under a heavy motion offense system...not sure he can do 18-20 ppg unless he's given a good doze of PnR.

The other big caveat is his shooting...If he can be more consistent as a shooter, he' could get up to 20ppg.

[ChokeFasncists]

McHale is not a bad coach, not a great coach either, but he is a good coach... Lin/Harden backcourt worked fine, one of the best at the time... it is just the Beverley/Harden, Lin sixth man combinations made the team more balanced and deeper... Being the sixth man of a team is not a slight, nothing to be shamed of ... if it were not for Bosh, they would not have traded Lin... all in all, Lin was pretty solid in Rockets, but he would never be Linsanity in Rockets, it is that simple, he will not have the ball with Harden in the picture....
it really boils down to how lin sees himself as a player... if he wants to settle to be a sixth man, or a leading guard to run a team, we know the answer now...

Na, na, McDumbBell is not really a good coach. He's good at letting the players play. He's terrible at Xs and Os, he spoiled his stars, he put the ball in Harden's hand, alienating everyone else except for Bev. He doesn't hold his stars accountable, especially on D, demoralizing the team. Passing PGs don't make good 6th men. It was a terrible decision, the point guard's supposed to pass the ball to the scorers like Dwight, instead of just giving the ball to the scorer and stand in the corner. He tired Harden out by letting him do everything on offense. Now they have only role players except for Harden on the team in Houston that would work better but they won't ever be a contender, like when they had a chance with Lin (as starting facilitating PG), Harden (should have been SG), Parsons, whoever at PF and Dwight. That team should have been contending for championship for a long time. His offense was chaotic, he couldn't coach defense very well either, except for saying "play harder", "the ball sticks". He relied too much on Harden drawing cheap fouls, didn't work in the playoffs except for that meltdown by the Clippers. He couldn't do anything about the problems and he's a bad teacher. What an opportunity wasted cuz of this McDimwitHell. Imagine if there was an actual good coach at the helm? They should have fired him much much sooner and gotten a real coach. But hey, he obeyed Morey, what do you do? (like asking Lin not to shoot midrange Js)

nah, coach McHale was fine, not a good x and o coach, but his feel for the game is good, he is quick to adjustments, flexible...He does not believe Lin as much as you do, that does not make him a bad coach...
you guys put too much Lin's demise on coach McHale... If Lin were playing for a coach like Clifford right after Linsanity season, he would have struggled more...you guys would have buried coach Clifford and claimed him to be the worst coach in the history...

First of all, I never claimed him to be the worst coach in the history, I merely posted some of his problems on top of my head which you choose to ignore. I said "he was not really a good coach".

Second, I love Cliff. I basically agreed with everything he did, except for the politics in game 7, probably not his decision. His team was well organized, he taught the player to do the right things. He's a bit too conservative but that's OK. What you said tho, sounds dangerously like some kinda biased ad hominem.

I certainly believe Lin more than he did. I certainly wouldn't have waived him first of all. Then I wouldn't take the ball totally out of his hands and put it totally into the scorer's hands, leading to disastrous results.

We don't know who's responsible for Lin's demise (benching I guess?), be it Morey, Harden or McHale. Officially it's the coach's job and he'll need to take the blame unless he comes out and say it wasn't his idea.

Coach McHale never had a losing season in Houston, even after the season Rockets lost their Franchise star Yao, McGrady, they almost made the playoff... Even with Harden, Lin, most people wrote the Rockets off, they made the playoff became a good young and coming team, the running and gunning strategy worked... he did alright...

McFail certainly isn't without any merit. It'd be like saying King had the team making the playoffs and had gotten some young talent therefore he's fine and did alright. As I said, he was good at letting the players play. He was flexible and he adjusted according to the talents he had. He was OK at motivation (even tho a lot of players don't like him). It's good if he's got vets who are motivated and know how to play or youngsters who need freedom to explore. He was supposed to be good at managing egos, but guess not. Biggest problem is, he wasn't suitable to manage a good team that wasn't perfectly built or trying to overachieve. He wasn't good enough to take a team to another level or stay at a high level. He had a very good team underachieve. He's neither the Xs and Os type like Pop, Carlisle, MDA; nor the disciplinarian type like Cliff, Karl; nor the motivational type that get players to buy in like Doc, Brooks; nor the defensive guru type like Thibs, Bud, Spo, Joerger; nor the developmental teacher like Stotts, Malone, Atkinson. He is not good at any of these coaching aspects. Being good at being flexible and adjusting according to the talents, add in a little motivation is not enough at a high level, these don't make a true good coach. Too much was dependent on luck. He was quite good at enforcing MoreyBall tho. That's why he survived for so long, but unfortunately too long for the good of the team.

[Paradise]

points are meaningless. field goal attempts are better gauge as Lin should remain efficient 1.2+ pps. Therefore if Lin manages to shoot 15 fga, he should score 18-20 ppg.

but the fga may vary as I'd like to see 6-7 free throws per game. that means he's not in love with the three and is attacking.

so let's not get to carried away with points. for lin to be effective, he needs to make the defense play him and that will make his teammates job easier.

If the motion offense is deployed heavily, I'm not sure Lin will hit the high numbers that some believe he'll do easily.

It looks like Kenny wants a very balanced offense instead of just relying on Lin/Lopez to take half of the shot attempt.

I still think Lin could average about 16-17 point per game under a heavy motion offense system...not sure he can do 18-20 ppg unless he's given a good doze of PnR.

The other big caveat is his shooting...If he can be more consistent as a shooter, he' could get up to 20ppg.

There are various different versions of motion offense. You usually average somewhere like 18/7 in an offense like this from a Jeff Teague or Tony Parker but then Portland runs a similar set and guys like McCollum and Lillard get 20 a piece while still maintaining a well balance offense.



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