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Can Trump wiggle out of this one?

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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1021 » by K_ick_God » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:34 pm

CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:She is going to do it but with the depths this has fallen to, Hillary could easily say she is not going to do the debate. It'd be a mark of refusal to accept that our public conversation should sink so low. She could at least just say she's not going to respond to crazy or abusive comments from him, and focus almost entirely on what she will do as president, now that it's clear she will be.

Just talk about your agenda and your vision. Make like he's not there, because he's basically not, except for an empty can making a lot of noise.


Nah. Just show up. Don't say anything about terms and conditions. That's his racket. She needs to keep her nose out of that nonsense and let him continue to unravel.


Yeah I guess so. But one of the things people will look for from her as president is true leadership. That means fewer games and calculations, and more stands for the sake of the rightness or wrongness of the thing you're confronted with. Understandable not to mess with anything now. I wouldn't recommend it either. But in a hypothetical, she could simply say "I won't dignify this anymore" and it would make a lot of sense.

You're right that it would play into his hands. But in theory, who cares. Caring too much about politics is what has gotten us here -- GOP placated these bad elements for far too long.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1022 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:43 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:She is going to do it but with the depths this has fallen to, Hillary could easily say she is not going to do the debate. It'd be a mark of refusal to accept that our public conversation should sink so low. She could at least just say she's not going to respond to crazy or abusive comments from him, and focus almost entirely on what she will do as president, now that it's clear she will be.

Just talk about your agenda and your vision. Make like he's not there, because he's basically not, except for an empty can making a lot of noise.


Nah. Just show up. Don't say anything about terms and conditions. That's his racket. She needs to keep her nose out of that nonsense and let him continue to unravel.


Yeah I guess so. But one of the things people will look for from her as president is true leadership. That means fewer games and calculations, and more stands for the sake of the rightness or wrongness of the thing you're confronted with. Understandable not to mess with anything now. I wouldn't recommend it either. But in a hypothetical, she could simply say "I won't dignify this anymore" and it would make a lot of sense.

You're right that it would play into his hands. But in theory, who cares. Caring too much about politics is what has gotten us here -- GOP placated these bad elements for far too long.


On the level of issues I agree. She should hedge less now and drive home her points fearlessly. She does not have to treat this as the pivot point any longer and can pretty much use this event as a warm up for how she will do business as prez. So I agree with that. Just leave the jockeying over debate terms and conditions out of it. That's for phonies like Trump and the rigged campaign assininity he is pumping now to his troll base.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1023 » by K_ick_God » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:48 pm

CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
CJackson wrote:
Nah. Just show up. Don't say anything about terms and conditions. That's his racket. She needs to keep her nose out of that nonsense and let him continue to unravel.


Yeah I guess so. But one of the things people will look for from her as president is true leadership. That means fewer games and calculations, and more stands for the sake of the rightness or wrongness of the thing you're confronted with. Understandable not to mess with anything now. I wouldn't recommend it either. But in a hypothetical, she could simply say "I won't dignify this anymore" and it would make a lot of sense.

You're right that it would play into his hands. But in theory, who cares. Caring too much about politics is what has gotten us here -- GOP placated these bad elements for far too long.


On the level of issues I agree. She should hedge less now and drive home her points fearlessly. She does not have to treat this as the pivot point any longer and can pretty much use this event as a warm up for how she will do business as prez. So I agree with that. Just leave the jockeying over debate terms and conditions out of it. That's for phonies like Trump and the rigged campaign assininity he is pumping now to his troll base.


Well stated.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1024 » by NoLayupRule » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:51 pm

what Hilary lacks in charisma and trustworthiness she more than makes up for in hard work and intellect

Im ok with a president who is willing to get in the weeds and really think an issue out

I wish her positions were less scripted or focus grouped


But after Bush's lazy contempt for those who didn't vote for him or agree with him and Obamas inability to lead an obstructionist house/senate to follow him I think Hilary will be a refreshing change.

Politicians pretend in the elections that they hate her but she's had nothing but success as a congresswoman and secretary of state working across party lines

Trump meanwhile can't even keep his own party from running from him at every turn
He would be a lame duck president within the first year
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1025 » by Jalen Bluntson » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:30 pm

Shillary is a disgusting pig.
Trump is a disgusting pig.

Both are self serving.

Clinton is bought and paid for by global elitists. She doesn't give a damn about the citizens of this country other than as vote mules.

Trump is trying to buy into the elitist group that already has hooks in Shillary.

The media is owned by these people. More of it in team Shillary.

A vote for her is a status quote vote with serious global blow back.

A vote for Trump is a vote for unknowns. He is going to be a disaster on his own.

Good luck. I'm packing and getting ready to run to the hills.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1026 » by duetta » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:39 pm

knicks85 wrote:Maybe making education affordable is a round about way of addressing it?


That's certainly one part of the solution - although there are many more pieces that need to be fixed as well.

When I graduated from a private Jesuit college in 1978, my final year tuition was $2,800. Today a full year tuition at that same university is $43,000. That's like 14x higher. Now, have have entry-level salaries increased 14x? I don't think so. It's madness - and it's nationwide. And yet adjunct professors are still being paid poorly enough to collect food stamps. When you consider how many hours they have to put in outside of teaching (grading papers, seeing students, etc.), many are barely making minimum wage. And we're talking people with Masters and PhDs. Someone needs to explain this scam to me, because it's evidently a terrific business to make money in (so long as your're not either a student or an adjunct professor)!

Drumpf's plan is to dramatically slash corporate rates across the board, as well as personal taxes - which does nothing whatsoever to address the wage differential between American and emerging market Asian workers. I'm all for lowering corporate taxes on authentically American activity, in order to address that wage differential - but that's not what he's advocating. Personally, I think he just pulled that tax plan out of his backside in order to get the Republican establishment on board with his scam. But his scam absolutely, positively does not address the dynamics that are driving job loss in America.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1027 » by Capn'O » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:50 pm

duetta wrote:
knicks85 wrote:Maybe making education affordable is a round about way of addressing it?


That's certainly one part of the solution - although there are many more pieces that need to be fixed as well.

When I graduated from a private Jesuit college in 1978, my final year tuition was $2,800. Today a full year tuition at that same university is $43,000. That's like 14x higher. Now, have have entry-level salaries increased 14x? I don't think so. It's madness - and it's nationwide. And yet adjunct professors are still being paid poorly enough to collect food stamps. When you consider how many hours they have to put in outside of teaching (grading papers, seeing students, etc.), many are barely making minimum wage. And we're talking people with Masters and PhDs. Someone needs to explain this scam to me, because it's evidently a terrific business to make money in (so long as your're not either a student or an adjunct professor)!

Drumpf's plan is to dramatically slash corporate rates across the board, as well as personal taxes - which does nothing whatsoever to address the wage differential between American and emerging market Asian workers. I'm all for lowering corporate taxes on authentically American activity, in order to address that wage differential - but that's not what he's advocating. Personally, I think he just pulled that tax plan out of his backside in order to get the Republican establishment on board with his scam. But his scam absolutely, positively does not address the dynamics that are driving job loss in America.


Didn't the plan come almost directly after his meeting with Paul Ryan?
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1028 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:23 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:Shillary is a disgusting pig.
Trump is a disgusting pig.

Both are self serving.

Clinton is bought and paid for by global elitists. She doesn't give a damn about the citizens of this country other than as vote mules.

Trump is trying to buy into the elitist group that already has hooks in Shillary.

The media is owned by these people. More of it in team Shillary.

A vote for her is a status quote vote with serious global blow back.

A vote for Trump is a vote for unknowns. He is going to be a disaster on his own.

Good luck. I'm packing and getting ready to run to the hills.


Just make sure you check for bears before wading into the blackberry bushes
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1029 » by K_ick_God » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:29 pm

Depressing election for many but here are some reasons the glass is half full:

1) Trump has tepid or token support among the Republican leadership, with few if any meaningful exceptions.

2) He fell apart under scrutiny, his past caught up with him -- the rigors of a democratic election season ultimately produced their intended effect.

3) He's not a young man.

4) He's deeply undisciplined and myopic at best; somewhat or very self-destructive is far from an unfair assessment. Just as reasonable to think he'll spend the next four years rationalizing his loss in ever more exotic ways as it is to expect a tightly focused shadow government to emerge. With a smaller megaphone, why would he suddenly start executing better than he has?

5) Americans, and maybe especially Republicans, typically avert their eyes from election losers.

6) As Ross Douthat argues, there are instructive lessons in Trumpism; but it's not like the Ryan vision is fundamentally incompatible with small-business, middle-class capitalism. Yes there is a conflict to be confronted on an approach to entitlements but assuming these would prove difficult/impossible to dramatically reform by legislation anyway, regardless of Trump, this could simply be the acceleration of an inevitable political reckoning. Tacking toward the middle with incremental steps forward for the conservative cause seems like the best way to inoculate the party and the right against Trumpism, and there's no shame in winning.

7) Already R leaders are disputing his rigging claim. This will grow into a unified chorus of dismissal on Nov. 9.

8) It's easy to get caught up in the hysteria of so many shameful moments, but the post-mortem is very likely to consider a more balanced survey: A TV-trained carnival act used celebrity and name recognition to gain a first-mover advantage that hardened as his oppo-research-less rivals (and their voters) were frozen in disbelief. Then he scorched earth to keep it.

9) More than a particular flaw of American democracy, it's a flaw of the human life and condition that many are not paying nearly as close attention to daily politics as the ones who are glued to it (among whom the outrage seems greatest). So name recognition, the superficial tough guy routine and, yes, very easy answers to very hard problems, are of course going to hold outsized influence. In the final analysis, if Trump were a less objectionable person and/or a more capable actor and/or could pick his spots better to shift between substance and attack (he’s done a piss poor job of this in the general) and/or really believed more in the things he spouts AND the country was viewed by most to be in fairly dire straits, then that hypothetical Trump could rise to the presidency and threaten the system itself. We might as well simply accept that any democracy is still dependent on a bit of good fortune and the more or less good intentions of its principal players. And while this point is not wholly reassuring, it is more so when you consider that there is at least some strong relationship between these ‘moderate democracy’ and ‘not in dire straits’ things.

10) In the end, he was the first choice of about 33% of the primary voters in a party with about 39% of total registered voters. Many others came aboard for the feel-good Hillary bashing. No she's not the bogeywoman. She's a flawed but hardworking public servant who cares about something other than herself, and will scrub the details in her decision-making process and the challenges facing the nation. That could include standing up to the jobs of fixing Syria, Obamacare, etc.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1030 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:41 pm

KnicksGod wrote:10) In the end, he was the first choice of about 33% of the primary voters in a party with about 39% of total registered voters. Many others came aboard for the feel-good Hillary bashing. No she's not the bogeywoman. She's a flawed but hardworking public servant who cares about something other than herself, and will scrub the details in her decision-making process and the challenges facing the nation. That could include standing up to the jobs of fixing Syria, Obamacare, etc.


I said earlier she has a real shot at reforming Obamacare and making it a single payer system, saving voters real money in their own monthly budgets and salvaging what was an ass backwards health care plan that looks in real danger of imploding upon itself.

I see people from all spectrums of opinion wishing for this. It is hardly a partisan issue at this point.

If she can do that in her first 100 days she will win over an enormous amount of people who will be sitting on the fence.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1031 » by N8isScofield » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:51 pm

CJackson wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:10) In the end, he was the first choice of about 33% of the primary voters in a party with about 39% of total registered voters. Many others came aboard for the feel-good Hillary bashing. No she's not the bogeywoman. She's a flawed but hardworking public servant who cares about something other than herself, and will scrub the details in her decision-making process and the challenges facing the nation. That could include standing up to the jobs of fixing Syria, Obamacare, etc.


I said earlier she has a real shot at reforming Obamacare and making it a single payer system, saving voters real money in their own monthly budgets and salvaging what was an ass backwards health care plan that looks in real danger of imploding upon itself.

I see people from all spectrums of opinion wishing for this. It is hardly a partisan issue at this point.

If she can do that in her first 100 days she will win over an enormous amount of people who will be sitting on the fence.

This.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1032 » by N8isScofield » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:02 pm

The only disappointing part of them cutting of Assange's internet access is that it's not enough. What they should do is smoke the little bastard out of the embassy so he can stand trial for the rape he committed that lead to him fleeing to that embassy. I would even be willing to do the humanitarian thing and let him share a cell with Trump once one of the allegations against him sticks.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1033 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:13 pm

N8isScofield wrote:The only disappointing part of them cutting of Assange's internet access is that it's not enough. What they should do is smoke the little bastard out of the embassy so he can stand trial for the rape he committed that lead to him fleeing to that embassy. I would even be willing to do the humanitarian thing and let him share a cell with Trump once one of the allegations against him sticks.


The sexual tension would be over the top
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1034 » by N8isScofield » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:24 pm

CJackson wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:The only disappointing part of them cutting of Assange's internet access is that it's not enough. What they should do is smoke the little bastard out of the embassy so he can stand trial for the rape he committed that lead to him fleeing to that embassy. I would even be willing to do the humanitarian thing and let him share a cell with Trump once one of the allegations against him sticks.


The sexual tension would be over the top

It would be yuge. Big big sexual tension. Maybe not enough tic tacs. The sex would be rigged!
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1035 » by CJackson » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:28 pm

N8isScofield wrote:
CJackson wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:The only disappointing part of them cutting of Assange's internet access is that it's not enough. What they should do is smoke the little bastard out of the embassy so he can stand trial for the rape he committed that lead to him fleeing to that embassy. I would even be willing to do the humanitarian thing and let him share a cell with Trump once one of the allegations against him sticks.


The sexual tension would be over the top


It would be yuge. Big big sexual tension. Maybe not enough tic tacs. The sex would be rigged!


Will go into OT. On the final play Assange heads for the rim and penetrates but is blocked by a wall of Mexican food.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1036 » by reub » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:34 pm

N8isScofield wrote:The only disappointing part of them cutting of Assange's internet access is that it's not enough. What they should do is smoke the little bastard out of the embassy so he can stand trial for the rape he committed that lead to him fleeing to that embassy. I would even be willing to do the humanitarian thing and let him share a cell with Trump once one of the allegations against him sticks.



How do you feel about the rape D Rose committed?
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1037 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:48 pm

CJackson wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:David Dayen: The Most Important WikiLeak Revelation




That's a live stream Wingo, so whatever you wanted to share is not possible.

You could summarize the point however


You can watch it now if you want. I'm about to head out the door. Going out on a friend's boat to watch the rocket launch from Virginia at 7:30. I'll summarize later tonight.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1038 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:53 pm

duetta wrote:
knicks85 wrote:Maybe making education affordable is a round about way of addressing it?


That's certainly one part of the solution - although there are many more pieces that need to be fixed as well.

When I graduated from a private Jesuit college in 1978, my final year tuition was $2,800. Today a full year tuition at that same university is $43,000. That's like 14x higher. Now, have have entry-level salaries increased 14x? I don't think so. It's madness - and it's nationwide. And yet adjunct professors are still being paid poorly enough to collect food stamps. When you consider how many hours they have to put in outside of teaching (grading papers, seeing students, etc.), many are barely making minimum wage. And we're talking people with Masters and PhDs. Someone needs to explain this scam to me, because it's evidently a terrific business to make money in (so long as your're not either a student or an adjunct professor)!

Drumpf's plan is to dramatically slash corporate rates across the board, as well as personal taxes - which does nothing whatsoever to address the wage differential between American and emerging market Asian workers. I'm all for lowering corporate taxes on authentically American activity, in order to address that wage differential - but that's not what he's advocating. Personally, I think he just pulled that tax plan out of his backside in order to get the Republican establishment on board with his scam. But his scam absolutely, positively does not address the dynamics that are driving job loss in America.


When the financial system ultimately runs on debt, there is no way we are ever seeing education reform - for higher education.

As a matter of fact, the bankers and hedge fund managers are coming for your grade school kids in the form of charter schools. Poor guys, I mean, there isn't a lot left in the former public sector to monetize into debt.

At some point, hundreds of years from now, this will be looked at like serfdom and high schools will be shaking their heads at how this was allowed to go on. Unless they are laboring on farms somewhere to feed the elite families. Then maybe not.
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1039 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:55 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
CJackson wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:David Dayen: The Most Important WikiLeak Revelation




That's a live stream Wingo, so whatever you wanted to share is not possible.

You could summarize the point however


You can replay it at any time. I'm about to head out the door. Going out on a friend's boat to watch the rocket launch from Virginia at 7:30. I'll summarize later tonight.



Damn, this thing is 2 hours long. I'm an American, I can't think that long. At least you could have said "Go to x minute mark for the big reveal"
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Re: Can Trump wiggle out of this one? 

Post#1040 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:58 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
CJackson wrote:
That's a live stream Wingo, so whatever you wanted to share is not possible.

You could summarize the point however


You can replay it at any time. I'm about to head out the door. Going out on a friend's boat to watch the rocket launch from Virginia at 7:30. I'll summarize later tonight.



Damn, this thing is 2 hours long. I'm an American, I can't think that long. At least you could have said "Go to x minute mark for the big reveal"


The discussion with Dayen is only 40 minutes. He's the guy on the phone toward the beginning of the program. The second half of the show is "the fun half." I love this program and listen to it almost everyday. Sam is very entertaining IMO.

Go to -2:10::52

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