The Preseason Thread

[babyjax13]

PG is better defensive player than Hayward. Are we sure he's better offensive player?

I think he is, but this year's Jazz team will be better on offense than that Pacers team. Does it really matter that PG is better than Hayward if the Jazz are as good on defense and better on offense? It doesn't imo.

Well, if we are talking about having that #1 type player, Paul George is it. He is a better scorer and a better defender. Hayward's advantage is probably playmaking. That's not really a knock on Gordon, George is just really, really good. IMO it goes LeBron, Durant, Kawhi, George, Hayward, Melo with Giannis/Parker/Wiggins all having the opportunity to be better next season. I think the drop between George and Hayward is really quite large.

[KqWIN]

PG is better defensive player than Hayward. Are we sure he's better offensive player?

I think he is, but this year's Jazz team will be better on offense than that Pacers team. Does it really matter that PG is better than Hayward if the Jazz are as good on defense and better on offense? It doesn't imo.

Well, if we are talking about having that #1 type player, Paul George is it. He is a better scorer and a better defender. Hayward's advantage is probably playmaking. That's not really a knock on Gordon, George is just really, really good. IMO it goes LeBron, Durant, Kawhi, George, Hayward, Melo with Giannis/Parker/Wiggins all having the opportunity to be better next season. I think the drop between George and Hayward is really quite large.

I would agree, PG is much better than Hayward. However, I don't think that means that this Jazz team can't be better than that Pacers team.

[babyjax13]

I think he is, but this year's Jazz team will be better on offense than that Pacers team. Does it really matter that PG is better than Hayward if the Jazz are as good on defense and better on offense? It doesn't imo.

Well, if we are talking about having that #1 type player, Paul George is it. He is a better scorer and a better defender. Hayward's advantage is probably playmaking. That's not really a knock on Gordon, George is just really, really good. IMO it goes LeBron, Durant, Kawhi, George, Hayward, Melo with Giannis/Parker/Wiggins all having the opportunity to be better next season. I think the drop between George and Hayward is really quite large.

I would agree, PG is much better than Hayward. However, I don't think that means that this Jazz team can't be better than that Pacers team.

Oh yah, I'd agree with that. IF we are healthy, we are a better team. They are really interesting, though, with their ability to play 5 out.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I know the 2004 Pistons sounds tempting, since they were truly contenders and even champions. Having said that, they had a much easier path to the finals since the east was pathetic at the time. They are also the exception to the rule when it comes to championship teams, and I don't think modeling ourselves after the most rare example of a championship team gives us the best chance to become a championship team. It only worked once, that I can recall.

I know when you have a deep team with no clear superstar, the knee-jerk reaction is to bring up the 2004 Pistons, but really, that approach only worked for the 2004 Pistons in all of modern history.

Even with the balance of power within the west changing, I don't see a scenario where it is as weak as the east was when the Pistons had their day. There are other up and coming teams to consider.

However, I don't see many people willing to start rebuilding again now that this team is close to (some) success, and aware I'm in the minority. Having said all that, if one thinks this team can truly contend for a championship by molding itself after said 2004 Pistons and be the contemporary incarnation of such a team, then I guess one would go with that. Personally, I have my doubts.

Damn, I agree with almost every word you've said here. Projecting outliers is the riskiest of businesses and a recipe for disappointments. It's the same when people mention how Jason Kidd became a good shooter after being horrible to start his career and projecting their favourite prospect to do the same. People need to understand that this is an outlier. This is not what you can expect from huge majority of situations. The 2004 Pistons are the outliers of outliers when it comes to championship teams.

I actually don't agree we look like the Pistons that much. But I think we have the potential to have something else that not many teams have had in the history of the league - top 6-7 players at all positions. Hayward is a top 6-7 SF, Favors and Gobert are close if not already there. Hood has the potential to be top 6-7 SG as soon as this year. For this thing to materialize we need Exum to become top 6-7 PG in the league and he's the biggest question in this equation. I think he might be the key to us becoming a real contender without actually having a true superstar.

Can you think of another team that has had this type of roster composition? Not even the Warriors have that(they have 4 players in the top 3 of their positions, which is better). Not even the Hawks from couple of years ago that was remarkably balanced team had that. I really can't think of one team with such concentration of high level talent, although without a clear-cut superstar.

Is it possible that this might shoot us into contention? Not having weak links is extremely important in a playoff type scenario. I don't think we will have a chance for several years until the Warriors fall off or disband, but this team might be onto something if we somehow manage to to keep everybody together and Exum gets to where we envisioned him when we drafted him.

I think I do want to give this a try. I'm not ready to give up on this experiment. And if it fails miserably I'll be ready for Hinkie.

Even if those players can all be top 6 or so in the next couple of years, the problem is that the Jazz can't afford to keep them all, even with the new cap.

[Inigo Montoya]

Even if those players can all be top 6 or so in the next couple of years, the problem is that the Jazz can't afford to keep them all, even with the new cap.

True, and this is something we should always keep in mind. The problem is that generally the Jazz tends to hold on to players for too long. Now if they'll want to trade one of the young "core" non-Hayward guys, they run the risk of him disapproving and leaving at the end of the season. That's why I think any big trade, should it ever happen, will only happen after Hayward's contract situation is resolved, one way or the other.

[Inigo Montoya]

Starters vs the Clippers: Exum, Hill, ISO Joe, Diaw, Gobert.

[Inigo Montoya]

Nice 1st quarter by the Jazz, but they still can't stop last second baskets...

[bleu]

Even if those players can all be top 6 or so in the next couple of years, the problem is that the Jazz can't afford to keep them all, even with the new cap.

True, and this is something we should always keep in mind. The problem is that generally the Jazz tends to hold on to players for too long.

I disagree. DeMarre Carroll, Wesley Matthews, and Kyle Korver were examples of exactly the opposite.

[Inigo Montoya]

Even if those players can all be top 6 or so in the next couple of years, the problem is that the Jazz can't afford to keep them all, even with the new cap.

True, and this is something we should always keep in mind. The problem is that generally the Jazz tends to hold on to players for too long.

I disagree. DeMarre Carroll, Wesley Matthews, and Kyle Korver were examples of exactly the opposite.

On the contrary. The Jazz let them walk for nothing, which is what happens when you keep players for too long. Either trade them or extend them (generally speaking).

EDIT- I should probably say that I agree with the aforementioned examples, but I also think they point more to the exception than the rule. Big Al, Millsap, Marvin Williams, Kanter and more can be examples to the contrary. The general point I'm trying to make is that by holding on to players too long, their contract situation start to work against you. They either walk for nothing or you get bad offers for them, or you let the market dictate the value for them, which usually works against the Jazz: They didn't want to give Carroll a (pitiful) pay increase to 2.5M, they didn't want to give Korver 5.5M per season after he was paid 5M per season, they let the market dictate Matthews' value (couldn't be helped, due to his unique status as an undrafted player, but they should have kept him) and caved, they held on to Kanter for too long and got a bad return, they let Big Al and Millsap walk for nothing, could have gotten a 1st round pick for Marvin and ended up letting him walk for nothing, and they let Hayward hit free agency even when they were willing to max him, just to have him get a max with a poison pill.

[Inigo Montoya]

Gobert showing some nice moves tonight. Even made a baby hook.

[KqWIN]

Gobert was terrific, again. I think he has a great shot at making the all start team this year. Exum was passive, but took over the game once he remembered how good he was. The entire fourth quarter he got to the rim at will and made plays for himself and his teammates.

[sipclip]

Gobert was terrific, again. I think he has a great shot at making the all start team this year. Exum was passive, but took over the game once he remembered how good he was. The entire fourth quarter he got to the rim at will and made plays for himself and his teammates.

It is hard to overstate how excited I am about what I am seeing from Dante. If he plays aggressive off the bench then we are going to wreck teams with our 2nd unit. I'm dieing to see what it looks like with Exum, Burks, Johnson, Lyles and Diaw coming off the bench.

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[stitches]

This is what they should have done with the Clippers second unit last time they came to SLC...

Also nice to see Dante balling. I'm still hesitant to expect big things from him, but the early signs are encouraging.

[KqWIN]

This is what they should have done with the Clippers second unit last time.

Their bench was sans two all time greats in Aldrich and Prigioni.

[lorak]

Gobert showing some nice moves tonight. Even made a baby hook.

Yeah, he looked pretty good on offense:

Watch on YouTube

BTW, I have Gobert in my fantasty keeper league and I wonder how legit is his FT% improvement? Is it only small sample issue or he really improved here (if yes, then why we didn't see it during Olympic Games?)?

[stitches]

Watch on YouTube

[stitches]

Gobert showing some nice moves tonight. Even made a baby hook.

Yeah, he looked pretty good on offense:

Watch on YouTube

BTW, I have Gobert in my fantasty keeper league and I wonder how legit is his FT% improvement? Is it only small sample issue or he really improved here (if yes, then why we didn't see it during Olympic Games?)?

If I had to guess I'd say it's probably a matter of small sample size. I expect him to hover around the low 60s this year. According to Locke he hits about 70-75% in empty gym, so it's probably about confidence with him. I guess if he feels more confident he can climb up to mid to high 60s which again would be huge for this team.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Gobert showing some nice moves tonight. Even made a baby hook.

Yeah, he looked pretty good on offense:

Watch on YouTube

BTW, I have Gobert in my fantasty keeper league and I wonder how legit is his FT% improvement? Is it only small sample issue or he really improved here (if yes, then why we didn't see it during Olympic Games?)?

If I had to guess I'd say it's probably a matter of small sample size. I expect him to hover around the low 60s this year. According to Locke he hits about 70-75% in empty gym, so it's probably about confidence with him. I guess if he feels more confident he can climb up to mid to high 60s which again would be huge for this team.

I think Locke said he hits about 85-90% of his FT's in practice, not 75. I could be wrong though.

I don't think it's due to just a small sample size. I think it's a legit improvement. Just the other day the media reported that he was the first in practice to hit 25 in a row. His form looks great and it's not like he's been clanking them in, they've been clean makes. We'll see how the fatigue of the season wears on him and if that has any effect but for now I think you should consider it legit. Wouldn't surprise me to see him shoot 70% or above this year.

[babyjax13]

Exum and Rudy both look like completely different players.

[sipclip]

The question I have now is do we start the season with Favors coming off the bench since he hasn't been playing and the chemistry between Rudy and Diaw has been incredible? Right now I would like to bring him back slowly off the bench and continue with Diaw starting.