2016-17 Phoenix Suns Preseason Thread

[lilfishi22]

Knight seems like the perfect player for the Spurs. He's a guy who needs the structure and defense behind him to be productive. Not sure they'd whiff on the package of Knight/Len/Archie though. We may need to include PJ and one more of our young guys. Bender seems like the type of Euro rookie the Spurs love to bring in.

[OGBAH]

LMA won't be the man here either....and another thing is we already have a #12

[OGBAH]

Can we get Murray Chriss's buddy included

[lilfishi22]

I'm neutral to the prospect of going after LMA in a trade. I do think some people here are downplaying LMA's impact and maybe overvaluing our rookies a little though.

On one hand, he's the caliber of player that we hope Bender and Chriss develop into: Top 5 in his position, Top 25 in the league. Sacrificing one of them for immediate success while retaining the other to develop into that type of player for the future wouldn't be the worst play by us. It makes us a competitor for the playoffs (even if we're not title contenders), his game should age gracefully considering he never was one to rely on his athleticism, and he's already got a good relationship with Watson. Marquese soaking up LMA's skills and putting them to use with his athletic ability would be a sight to see. I get the disdain for moving Bender/Chriss for him, they are the Spurs, but we can't overvalue them either and act like they're guaranteed to reach the level that LMA is at either, they were 2 of the bigger boom-or-bust candidates in the draft for a reason, just because they joined the team we're fans of doesn't mean we shouldn't look at them objectively.

On the other hand, LMA is approaching the end of his career, and if we give up too much for him to win now, then we're just further stunting ourselves in the future. It would kind of suck for us to narrowly miss out on him in free agency, only to give up an asset to finally bring him in when we could have for nothing just a year ago. Also, giving a high ceiling prospect like Bender/Chriss to one of the best player development programs in the league is just asking for them to develop into great players and come back to bite us in the ass for the duration of their careers there. Making that move kind of goes against the whole youth movement with mentors guiding them to success movement that our franchise has been pushing all offseason.

I'd lean toward not trading with the Spurs, but I'd understand if we pursued it too.

I like this balanced opinion. I too feel some posters on the board lean too far on either side.

We really honestly don't know what we have in Bender/Chriss. They have promise but those could end up being nothing more than the 7th or 8th man off the bench in their career. What your'e trading for is a known and productive asset for potential. So I think it's a valid question to ask whether you think Bender/Chriss would ever have the impact LMA has now and in the near future. If not, then it makes sense to move one for LMA. Then we also need to consider whether we're in the right place to have a veteran like LMA on our team. I think the answer to that right now is no, but the season after could be a different story. Then the last thing to consider is whether LMA would be content if he knew Booker is an up and coming young star who could become THE MAN during his time with us.

Considering everything, I would be ecstatic to have LMA on board but I wouldn't be unhappy if we didn't go after him at all. I expect McD to do his due diligence considering he went hard last offseason trying to sign him.

[darealjuice]

Read on Twitter

Archie might have the ugliest swing I've ever seen lol

[lilfishi22]

It's kinda sad Archie's golf swing is as ugly as his jump shot

[darealjuice]

It's kinda sad Archie's golf swing is as ugly as his jump shot

He's got the Shawn Marion jumpshot of golf swings lol

[lilfishi22]

It's kinda sad Archie's golf swing is as ugly as his jump shot

He's got the Shawn Marion jumpshot of golf swings lol

I'd say, Archie has the Ben Wallace jumpshot of golf swings

Marion's jumpshot was surprisingly effective.

[bwgood77]

I'm neutral to the prospect of going after LMA in a trade. I do think some people here are downplaying LMA's impact and maybe overvaluing our rookies a little though.

On one hand, he's the caliber of player that we hope Bender and Chriss develop into: Top 5 in his position, Top 25 in the league. Sacrificing one of them for immediate success while retaining the other to develop into that type of player for the future wouldn't be the worst play by us. It makes us a competitor for the playoffs (even if we're not title contenders), his game should age gracefully considering he never was one to rely on his athleticism, and he's already got a good relationship with Watson. Marquese soaking up LMA's skills and putting them to use with his athletic ability would be a sight to see. I get the disdain for moving Bender/Chriss for him, they are the Spurs, but we can't overvalue them either and act like they're guaranteed to reach the level that LMA is at either, they were 2 of the bigger boom-or-bust candidates in the draft for a reason, just because they joined the team we're fans of doesn't mean we shouldn't look at them objectively.

On the other hand, LMA is approaching the end of his career, and if we give up too much for him to win now, then we're just further stunting ourselves in the future. It would kind of suck for us to narrowly miss out on him in free agency, only to give up an asset to finally bring him in when we could have for nothing just a year ago. Also, giving a high ceiling prospect like Bender/Chriss to one of the best player development programs in the league is just asking for them to develop into great players and come back to bite us in the ass for the duration of their careers there. Making that move kind of goes against the whole youth movement with mentors guiding them to success movement that our franchise has been pushing all offseason.

I'd lean toward not trading with the Spurs, but I'd understand if we pursued it too.

I like this balanced opinion. I too feel some posters on the board lean too far on either side.

We really honestly don't know what we have in Bender/Chriss. They have promise but those could end up being nothing more than the 7th or 8th man off the bench in their career. What your'e trading for is a known and productive asset for potential. So I think it's a valid question to ask whether you think Bender/Chriss would ever have the impact LMA has now and in the near future. If not, then it makes sense to move one for LMA. Then we also need to consider whether we're in the right place to have a veteran like LMA on our team. I think the answer to that right now is no, but the season after could be a different story. Then the last thing to consider is whether LMA would be content if he knew Booker is an up and coming young star who could become THE MAN during his time with us.

Considering everything, I would be ecstatic to have LMA on board but I wouldn't be unhappy if we didn't go after him at all. I expect McD to do his due diligence considering he went hard last offseason trying to sign him.

I think LMA is a worth person to pursue (though if he was unhappy in Portland on a good team, and now unhappy on the Spurs who were a great team, I can't imagine how happy he'd be on the Suns despite the Watson/Chandler connection).

But the facts as I see them are:

We don't have the trade assets that the Spurs would want. You know Pop wants to compete. They won, what 67 games last year? They are going to trade Aldridge for Len and Knight? Even if we did offer TWO of the Booker/Bender/Chriss combo I don't think that's what they are looking for.

They are a good team who IF they were to trade him (which I believe is simply speculation that I think gains WAY too much traction in this day and age), they will want a premier player or two VERY good players in return. Although I'm not sure he seems like a Pop type player, Blake Griffin would be the kind of player they'd be after. Not, Len and Knight or Bender or Chriss or even Booker.

They also have Pau Gasol, so they don't appear to be anywhere near rebuilding mode and if they EVER decide to go that route, I think that is when Pop call it a career to keep his stellar coaching record intact, and it's just probably not something he wants at this point in time.

I mean everything about him even being traded, but them liking what WE would have to offer, doesn't make sense.

But I haven't mentioned the biggest thing yet. Where does that really get us? Do you really want to slow down Bender and/or Chriss development or trade one of them so we can hopefully get a 6th seed for a couple of years IF Bledsoe's knee holds up?

It makes little sense for the Suns imo but less since for the Spurs.

Personally I wouldn't pursue him not only because I like where we are and I am sick of trying to rebuild and compete at the same time, but I would HATE to give up Booker or one of our young PFs which it would surely take IF it ever happened (and that would likely be in some sort of 3 way deal). But as letsgosuns has said, I can't see them giving up these guys, particularly for a guy who decided against coming to our team.

I'm happy with the team and am really tired of knee jerk trades creating uncertainty, unhappiness, destroying any chemistry we have, etc.

It seems like McD has learned his lesson after his first botched draft and the Dragic/Thomas/Knight fiasco, and then allowing the Morris situation to fester long enough to destroy a year. LUCKILY, the pick we got for Kieff, played a big part in getting us Chriss, so in the end it was worth it, but it was sure a painful way to get there.

[lilfishi22]

I think LMA is a worth person to pursue (though if he was unhappy in Portland on a good team, and now unhappy on the Spurs who were a great team, I can't imagine how happy he'd be on the Suns despite the Watson/Chandler connection).

But the facts as I see them are:

We don't have the trade assets that the Spurs would want. You know Pop wants to compete. They won, what 67 games last year? They are going to trade Aldridge for Len and Knight? Even if we did offer TWO of the Booker/Bender/Chriss combo I don't think that's what they are looking for.

They are a good team who IF they were to trade him (which I believe is simply speculation that I think gains WAY too much traction in this day and age), they will want a premier player or two VERY good players in return. Although I'm not sure he seems like a Pop type player, Blake Griffin would be the kind of player they'd be after. Not, Len and Knight or Bender or Chriss or even Booker.

They also have Pau Gasol, so they don't appear to be anywhere near rebuilding mode and if they EVER decide to go that route, I think that is when Pop call it a career to keep his stellar coaching record intact, and it's just probably not something he wants at this point in time.

I mean everything about him even being traded, but them liking what WE would have to offer, doesn't make sense.

But I haven't mentioned the biggest thing yet. Where does that really get us? Do you really want to slow down Bender and/or Chriss development or trade one of them so we can hopefully get a 6th seed for a couple of years IF Bledsoe's knee holds up?

It makes little sense for the Suns imo but less since for the Spurs.

Personally I wouldn't pursue him not only because I like where we are and I am sick of trying to rebuild and compete at the same time, but I would HATE to give up Booker or one of our young PFs which it would surely take IF it ever happened (and that would likely be in some sort of 3 way deal). But as letsgosuns has said, I can't see them giving up these guys, particularly for a guy who decided against coming to our team.

I'm happy with the team and am really tired of knee jerk trades creating uncertainty, unhappiness, destroying any chemistry we have, etc.

It seems like McD has learned his lesson after his first botched draft and the Dragic/Thomas/Knight fiasco, and then allowing the Morris situation to fester long enough to destroy a year. LUCKILY, the pick we got for Kieff, played a big part in getting us Chriss, so in the end it was worth it, but it was sure a painful way to get there.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here

I don't expect McD to go hard at LMA like he did last offseason but I do expect him to talk to the Spurs to see what the price is. It's good due diligence which I expect him to practise. I don't think it holds back Bender/Chriss' development, especially in the scenario where we indeed moved one of them for LMA. They will just pick up the minutes of the other.

I posed the question whether having a veteran like LMA makes sense on our team right now and I said, no. However I did also say it's a different story if we see our young guys take a solid step forward in their development then it might make sense to compete with LMA.

I agree it would be too early to move either Bender/Chriss and I don't think we have the right package for an LMA trade.

[bwgood77]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here

I don't expect McD to go hard at LMA like he did last offseason but I do expect him to talk to the Spurs to see what the price is. It's good due diligence which I expect him to practise. I don't think it holds back Bender/Chriss' development, especially in the scenario where we indeed moved one of them for LMA. They will just pick up the minutes of the other.

I posed the question whether having a veteran like LMA makes sense on our team right now and I said, no. However I did also say it's a different story if we see our young guys take a solid step forward in their development then it might make sense to compete with LMA.

I agree it would be too early to move either Bender/Chriss and I don't think we have the right package for an LMA trade.

So being that you think that McD will talk to them to see what it takes, that there is more to this than just some people speculating and everyone creating a story out of it?

[Fo-Real]

It's kinda sad Archie's golf swing is as ugly as his jump shot

He's got the Shawn Marion jumpshot of golf swings lol

I'd say, Archie has the Ben Wallace jumpshot of golf swings

Marion's jumpshot was surprisingly effective.

If it look stupid, but works....... aint stupid.

[lilfishi22]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here

I don't expect McD to go hard at LMA like he did last offseason but I do expect him to talk to the Spurs to see what the price is. It's good due diligence which I expect him to practise. I don't think it holds back Bender/Chriss' development, especially in the scenario where we indeed moved one of them for LMA. They will just pick up the minutes of the other.

I posed the question whether having a veteran like LMA makes sense on our team right now and I said, no. However I did also say it's a different story if we see our young guys take a solid step forward in their development then it might make sense to compete with LMA.

I agree it would be too early to move either Bender/Chriss and I don't think we have the right package for an LMA trade.

So being that you think that McD will talk to them to see what it takes, that there is more to this than just some people speculating and everyone creating a story out of it?

I wouldn't go that far. If there were legs to this rumour THEN I'd expect McD to do his due diligence.

[carey]

Look if they wanted Len and BK, sure why not? If they want Bender, Booker, Chriss or Warren? Peace out.

[Damkac]

It's kinda sad Archie's golf swing is as ugly as his jump shot

He's got the Shawn Marion jumpshot of golf swings lol

I'd say, Archie has the Ben Wallace jumpshot of golf swings

Marion's jumpshot was surprisingly effective.

And Barkley has the Jermaine O'Neal free throw of golf swings

Watch on YouTube

[AtheJ415]

Bender, Len and Archie for LMA.. PLEASE!!!! I'm sure the Suns wouldn't trade Booker and hopefully Chriss.

Aldridge and Watson's relationship plays a big role for LMA to trade his way here. Would Spurs consider trading him here is the question?


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I think they need PG with some basketball IQ. We are not the best trade partner for them.

Also, LA is 31. He doesn't really fit our team. Last year sure, but not now that we have added 3 super young rookies to our mix and are finally starting TJ at the 3. I would rather Boston lose their assets trading for him so that we end up with a more comparable treasure chest if a star comes on the market who is younger than LA.

I'd rather move Chandler and Tucker for picks of really any kind, then sign some older vets at the minimum for leadership. Go with the youth movement, try to get Hayward in the offseason or a similar fit at a similar age who can at the 3 or 4 spot, and then go all in for Cousins 2 years from now when he reportedly is looking to leave Sac and we have his best buddies at the key guard spots and a guy he claimed would become one of the best players in the league in Booker.

[AtheJ415]

If Bledsoe and Knight haven't learned 80-90% of what they need to do by now that's troubling. I think whatever we see from these guys this year is there finished product.

Knight's 24 and moving to a new position, I think he still has a lot to learn. Bledsoe, well, maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. There's a lot he still needs to learn but maybe he's just all he'll ever be. But I'm not convinced. I know Nash, for example, improved well into his late 20's and he was always a smart player. And while minutes are not everything, Kobe had played more minutes by the time that he'd turned 22 than Bledsoe has logged for his career thus far. It's cliched but there is no substitute for experience.

The other issue, is if we trade Knight, it needs to be for a traditional PG, because the chances are 50/50 that EB ends up injured for a significant amount of time. If we trade Knight an do not get a PG in return, that leaves Ulis and whatever scrub we can sign off the street, or enter into a lopsided trade with another team to get a PG.

UNLESS...any of you all believe that Booker could run the Point some like he did in SL. Ulis is not ready for primetime, so we need to either keep Knight, or the best option? Trade him for an "average" veteran PG who won't mind falling in behind EB when he comes back.

We don't though. Just get the best possible return regardless of position. Given our draft history I'd probably prefer picks to players. This draft coming up has lots of PGs, and we aren't contending this year so no need to grab a stopgap traditional PG to win games now if it means sacrificing a better future asset.

[AtheJ415]

This Aldridge possibly being traded rumor keeps popping back up. Since we were his close second choice in free agency is there a chance we could be involved in this. Says the Spurs want to possibly preserve salary instead of big return.

McD has preserved space for a move like this. He even specifically mentioned an imbalanced trade.

Bender, TJ (or a first), Goodwin (or a second) for LMA I think that takes us to a top 4 seed. GSW would be the only team clearly above us. LAC, HOU, SA, maybe Memphis all in the hunt.

Bledsoe/Barbosa/Ulis
Booker/ Knight/ Jenkins
Tucker/Dudley/Jones
LMA/Chriss/Williams
Chandler/Len

I don't think this puts us anywhere near the top 4 in the west, and I would physically vomit if we made that trade. We should not be involving Bender or TJ in any trade for somebody north of 30. I love Aldridge but he's not a great fit for us.

If we had the Tyson and Tucker of 3 years ago this may be a good idea, but that is taking a monumental long-term step back for a short-term playoff stint. It's not worthwhile imo.

[AtheJ415]

Some of you guys seriously beyond underestimate how much the Suns value Bender. Remember, they chose him OVER Chriss at the number four slot in the draft. And think about how much they gave up to get Chriss. 3 picks and the rights to Bogdanovich, who they tried very hard to bring over this season. So imagine how much they would hypothetically give up to get Bender. A lot.

How good is Aldridge? He sure as hell does not come close to truly dominant power forwards like Duncan or Amare. I mean not even close. He flat out is not a superstar. There are probably at least 15 guys in the league I would take before I considered Aldridge. And he is 31 years old. Re-read that. 31 years old. You want to trade an 18 year old player for a 31 year old. What are you talking about.

Do you guys see Bender's ball handling and defense. You see him pulling up for transition three pointers. How many 18 year old, 7'1" players have those skills in the entire world. I cannot think of anyone besides Bender. And some of you fans want to throw that away for a 31 year old, past his prime, non-superstar power forward who does not move the needle now or in the future for the Suns. Blows my mind.

I agree, we are going no where with Aldridge and I doubt he gets traded anyway. And if he did, Pop isn't going to say "You know what I need around Kawhi in his prime? Bender and Goodwin!" I mean some of the stuff is a joke.

Even if the Spurs did trade Aldridge, it's going to be for some good pieces that can contribute NOW. Pop isn't going to start rebuilding or trade for picks.

And yes, I think even Sarver has embraced the young approach, and I think the belief is that McD wanted Bender and Sarver wanted Chriss so McD isn't going to trade either. There are good vibes around the team. Lets not go **** it up like we have the last couple of years.

Yeah. Honestly Pop would rather have Chandler and Tucker than the youngins. If SA was somehow willing to listen to a poo poo platter of vets then great, but I don't think that happens. Boston works much better unless SA for some reason really wanted Knight.

[asudevil]

If i'm the suns, the offer for LA doesnt break the youth bank.

The addition of Aldridge is not a necessity, it would be a luxury. And IMO, the risks of trading guys like Chriss/Bender/Warren/Draft Picks would not be worth the addition of a semi-prime Aldridge for 2-3 years. For me in 3 years, after we dont win a championship, we'll look at what would could have had if we had kept everything we had and regret it.

Yes, for 3 years or so we'll be good......but not good enough.