Training Camp/Preseason 2016

[codigoman]

I don´t give crap about good or bad pre-season, less with a rookie, less with new coach.

Only worried about Wiggins, want to see an improvement in Basketball IQ and winning basketball, add very little apart for scoring.
And as every year also worried about Rubio´s scoring, if only could be average and hit open shots, will be a monster.
Kat and Lavine seen in the good way.

[NewWolvesOrder]

I have a feeling that our bench unit isn't good enough yet again. There's some quality there but no cohesiveness, too many new faces, rookie PG. Only Belly and Bazz have any kind of familiarity.

[King Malta]

I have a feeling that our bench unit isn't good enough yet again. There's some quality there but no cohesiveness, too many new faces, rookie PG. Only Belly and Bazz have any kind of familiarity.

You do realize that might be because they've only played about 4 or 5 games together right? How about giving it some time before worrying about cohesiveness and familiarity.

[NewWolvesOrder]

I have a feeling that our bench unit isn't good enough yet again. There's some quality there but no cohesiveness, too many new faces, rookie PG. Only Belly and Bazz have any kind of familiarity.

You do realize that might be because they've only played about 4 or 5 games together right? How about giving it some time before worrying about cohesiveness and familiarity.

I'm worried about them blowing leads left and right from the start. It will take a while to get cohesiveness and familiarity. By the time they get going the team maybe trailing in the standings. Hope you understand

[King Malta]

I have a feeling that our bench unit isn't good enough yet again. There's some quality there but no cohesiveness, too many new faces, rookie PG. Only Belly and Bazz have any kind of familiarity.

You do realize that might be because they've only played about 4 or 5 games together right? How about giving it some time before worrying about cohesiveness and familiarity.

I'm worried about them blowing leads left and right from the start. It will take a while to get cohesiveness and familiarity. By the time they get going the team maybe trailing in the standings. Hope you understand

Probably should've just kept exactly the same roster as last season to avoid this issue then

[NewWolvesOrder]

WTF is your problem? I was just stating that the bench is weak and will probably cost us games (some in here believe that we have a "killer" bench, maybe you're one of them people). Then you came along with your passive/aggressive rhetoric: "you realize they only played 5 games". No ****, Sherlock!

[Calinks]

Went to the wolves fan fest thing tonight. Nothing to scream about, players came out, did some weird streatches, had a brief warm up, and then played a half assed scrimmage for 30 minutes lol. It was no dunks after dark. What was cool was seeing the guys up close and checking out our badass scoreboard. Thing is great. They also have 4 other screens in each corner of the arena that are about as big as the old scoreboard. Great investment.

[King Malta]

Haha Jesus, you need to calm down.

I didn't agree with your concern over the bench and replied to your post. Your reasoning behind us having a poor bench appeared to be tied to the fact they hadn't played together much. We clearly needed to improve on last season's bench by actually bringing in players, so complaining that we now faced an issue of too many new players seemed like a strange concern to have. Yes, they're going to take time to gel, but improving the bench was necessary and you can only do that through getting new players.

For the record, no I don't think our bench is "killer", but it's certainly better than it was last season, and I'm pleased we made the effort to bring in players to achieve that.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Haha Jesus, you need to calm down.

I didn't agree with your concern over the bench and replied to your post. Your reasoning behind us having a poor bench appeared to be tied to the fact they hadn't played together much. We clearly needed to improve on last season's bench by actually bringing in players, so complaining that we now faced an issue of too many new players seemed like a strange concern to have. Yes, they're going to take time to gel, but improving the bench was necessary and you can only do that through getting new players.

For the record, no I don't think our bench is "killer", but it's certainly better than it was last season, and I'm pleased we made the effort to bring in players to achieve that.

But the players we brought in are not some world beaters. The only real improvement over last season is Aldrich (we needed a big shotblocker). The rest is really debatable. We won't get from arguably the worst bench to good bench with these additions. Then you have the lack of cohesiveness on top.

[King Malta]

Haha Jesus, you need to calm down.

I didn't agree with your concern over the bench and replied to your post. Your reasoning behind us having a poor bench appeared to be tied to the fact they hadn't played together much. We clearly needed to improve on last season's bench by actually bringing in players, so complaining that we now faced an issue of too many new players seemed like a strange concern to have. Yes, they're going to take time to gel, but improving the bench was necessary and you can only do that through getting new players.

For the record, no I don't think our bench is "killer", but it's certainly better than it was last season, and I'm pleased we made the effort to bring in players to achieve that.

But the players we brought in are not some world beaters. The only real improvement over last season is Aldrich (we needed a big shotblocker). The rest is really debatable. We won't get from arguably worst bench to good bench with this additions. Then you have the lack of cohesiveness on top.

They're definitely not world beaters at all, but I think the skill-sets some of them possess fill gaps that we had.

I was more hopeful over Dunn's immediate impact a month ago than I am now, but he wouldn't have to be too incredible to be a serious upgrade over the second unit playmakers we've had in the past. Rush brings shooting which we desperately need and as you mentioned Aldrich is the big tough no-nonsense defensive big that we lacked on the bench.

I don't know if I'd even rate our bench as 'good', but I'd feel comfortable slotting it in as league average, which is sadly considerably better than what we had last season. How well the players mesh will always be a factor, but the only way to improve our bench to an acceptable degree this off-season was through external recruitment, so it's something we'll have just to work through.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Haha Jesus, you need to calm down.

I didn't agree with your concern over the bench and replied to your post. Your reasoning behind us having a poor bench appeared to be tied to the fact they hadn't played together much. We clearly needed to improve on last season's bench by actually bringing in players, so complaining that we now faced an issue of too many new players seemed like a strange concern to have. Yes, they're going to take time to gel, but improving the bench was necessary and you can only do that through getting new players.

For the record, no I don't think our bench is "killer", but it's certainly better than it was last season, and I'm pleased we made the effort to bring in players to achieve that.

But the players we brought in are not some world beaters. The only real improvement over last season is Aldrich (we needed a big shotblocker). The rest is really debatable. We won't get from arguably worst bench to good bench with this additions. Then you have the lack of cohesiveness on top.

They're definitely not world beaters at all, but I think the skill-sets some of them possess fill gaps that we had.

I was more hopeful over Dunn's immediate impact a month ago than I am now, but he wouldn't have to be too incredible to be a serious upgrade over the second unit playmakers we've had in the past. Rush brings shooting which we desperately need and as you mentioned Aldrich is the big tough no-nonsense defensive big that we lacked on the bench.

I don't know if I'd even rate our bench as 'good', but I'd feel comfortable slotting it in as league average, which is sadly considerably better than what we had last season. How well the players mesh will always be a factor, but the only way to improve our bench to an acceptable degree this off-season was through external recruitment, so it's something we'll have just to work through.

Meh, I don't see much much improvement from Dunn/Lucas over Jones/Miller. The latter 2 just know how to run a team. Rush has 3 pt range but Prince was just a better player overall (even at 40). Only Aldrich covered a hole. Our starters will have to run up those leads to have a chance at postseason.

[Tirion]

The thing is Tyus still 2 years younger than Dunn. I dont think is wise trade tyus for something of little value. Simply release Pain or Pek. Tyus could become a better player than JL3 by the end of the season.

The problem with rookies looking bad is that if they dont figure out things quickly, or his coach doesnt help them playing them at a role where they can succeed, then they lost playing time, which the best way to get better. That is concerning for a 22 YO player, and a real posibility in a team trying to reach .500 land.

I just hope thibs moves him at the wing where Dunn can ease his mind, pick up better spots, and play off the ball defense. He would compliment Lavine and Wiggins better than Bazz with his defense and ball movement skills. In top of that Bazz contract would be extended for who know how money next season, and he isnt moving the needle.

The age is irrelevant in this case. Tyus problem is not something he can pick up with development. He's not going to be taller or quicker in 2 years. Even if he bulks up/adds strength it will probably affect his quickness, which is already pretty subpar for an NBA point guard. Skills-wise Jones is already pretty advanced, he can run a team right now, but undersized guards who can't get by people are just not a hot commodity in the NBA.

Personally I'm not against keeping him on an off-chance that he becomes elite shooter/distributor, who can make a winning play in the clutch, but if Thibs don't see it, well... Better trade him now, after a successful campaign in Summer League, then wait a year. Better for Tyus too, at least on some other team he could play. He needs minutes.

Its relevant, cause poised guards like Tyus, who are short and not lighting quick, but clearly belong to the league at 20 YO, not grow on trees. If Thibs develops a team defense like he did in Chicago or Boston, you can hide a undersized PG without much trouble. Tyus could not be a hot comodity, and he could not be more than a 3rd string PG, but he could be really good at that, better than we ever had. I dont know any reason to keep Pek or Payne over him.

The "clearly belong in the league" part sadly is more of a wishful thinking. Tyus had flashes, he also was a major defensive liability, and his ability to overcome that (along with his physical deficiencies) is a question mark here. Again, Doogie sounded very confident that JL3 is making the roster. I think he got that info from somebody at least (either JL3 himself or his agent). Operating on that assumption, we have two scenarios:

a) they are going to carry 4 PGs into the season - possible, they have a free roster spot after KG retired.
b) they are going to trade Tyus soon - less possible, because in that case you need another team with interest and with something that Wolves would want and that kind of thing rarely materializes.

The thing with Tyus is that he needs playing time to develop as any 20 yo player. He needs that time at the only position he can play - point guard. And it looks like he's not going to get it here, at least if everything goes according to plan. Thibs will play Rubio major minutes at point, cause he needs to win games and playing Rubio as much as possible is his best chance at that. The remaining of the minutes at that position will go to Dunn. That's Thibs' own rookie, he's invested in Dunn's development more than he does into Jones'.

So Tyus is left fighting for the scraps with Lucas, who is a veteran and has history with Thibs also. Barring injuries, it looks like Tyus is not going to get much playing time this season. He would've had more of a chance at PT if Dunn was played at SG a little, but so far that hasn't happened.

I feel for Tyus, that's not his fault, he did everything right and in some ways he's ahead of the curve in his development. And maybe Thibs is going to carry him further, preaching patience, but that's actually not in the best interests of Tyus himself. Again he needs playing time. He may get it somewhere else as I'm sure his agent will tell him. And remember, that Coach K is Thibs' friend and (former) boss.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

Rubio dunk alert!

[Killboard]

The age is irrelevant in this case. Tyus problem is not something he can pick up with development. He's not going to be taller or quicker in 2 years. Even if he bulks up/adds strength it will probably affect his quickness, which is already pretty subpar for an NBA point guard. Skills-wise Jones is already pretty advanced, he can run a team right now, but undersized guards who can't get by people are just not a hot commodity in the NBA.

Personally I'm not against keeping him on an off-chance that he becomes elite shooter/distributor, who can make a winning play in the clutch, but if Thibs don't see it, well... Better trade him now, after a successful campaign in Summer League, then wait a year. Better for Tyus too, at least on some other team he could play. He needs minutes.

Its relevant, cause poised guards like Tyus, who are short and not lighting quick, but clearly belong to the league at 20 YO, not grow on trees. If Thibs develops a team defense like he did in Chicago or Boston, you can hide a undersized PG without much trouble. Tyus could not be a hot comodity, and he could not be more than a 3rd string PG, but he could be really good at that, better than we ever had. I dont know any reason to keep Pek or Payne over him.

The "clearly belong in the league" part sadly is more of a wishful thinking. Tyus had flashes, he also was a major defensive liability, and his ability to overcome that (along with his physical deficiencies) is a question mark here. Again, Doogie sounded very confident that JL3 is making the roster. I think he got that info from somebody at least (either JL3 himself or his agent). Operating on that assumption, we have two scenarios:

a) they are going to carry 4 PGs into the season - possible, they have a free roster spot after KG retired.
b) they are going to trade Tyus soon - less possible, because in that case you need another team with interest and with something that Wolves would want and that kind of thing rarely materializes.

The thing with Tyus is that he needs playing time to develop as any 20 yo player. He needs that time at the only position he can play - point guard. And it looks like he's not going to get it here, at least if everything goes according to plan. Thibs will play Rubio major minutes at point, cause he needs to win games and playing Rubio as much as possible is his best chance at that. The remaining of the minutes at that position will go to Dunn. That's Thibs' own rookie, he's invested in Dunn's development more than he does into Jones'.

So Tyus is left fighting for the scraps with Lucas, who is a veteran and has history with Thibs also. Barring injuries, it looks like Tyus is not going to get much playing time this season. He would've had more of a chance at PT if Dunn was played at SG a little, but so far that hasn't happened.

I feel for Tyus, that's not his fault, he did everything right and in some ways he's ahead of the curve in his development. And maybe Thibs is going to carry him further, preaching patience, but that's actually not in the best interests of Tyus himself. Again he needs playing time. He may get it somewhere else as I'm sure his agent will tell him. And remember, that Coach K is Thibs' friend and (former) boss.

Did you see him dominate the Summer League up to the finals? I think that if you can dominate that way two years away from high school, then you are a NBA player. Maybe not a very good NBA player, maybe a 3rd string PG, but an NBA player for sure.

Also I think that if thibs could hide Lucas on D on the Bulls then he would able to hide Tyus once our defense learn to play like a unit and Tyus gains some strenght to run around screens. In the meantime, I think it make sense to have a more experienced PG like Lucas, who has can shoot, has poise and is probalby a more reliable defender.

Before to cut Tyus, I would cut Payne.

[Tirion]

Haha Jesus, you need to calm down.

I didn't agree with your concern over the bench and replied to your post. Your reasoning behind us having a poor bench appeared to be tied to the fact they hadn't played together much. We clearly needed to improve on last season's bench by actually bringing in players, so complaining that we now faced an issue of too many new players seemed like a strange concern to have. Yes, they're going to take time to gel, but improving the bench was necessary and you can only do that through getting new players.

For the record, no I don't think our bench is "killer", but it's certainly better than it was last season, and I'm pleased we made the effort to bring in players to achieve that.

But the players we brought in are not some world beaters. The only real improvement over last season is Aldrich (we needed a big shotblocker). The rest is really debatable. We won't get from arguably the worst bench to good bench with these additions. Then you have the lack of cohesiveness on top.

Lack of cohesiveness is not really a problem for bench units, cause of different rotations due to game-to-game matchups and larger turnover among players. Almost every NBA club brings a different bench every year. Drafts and injuries lead to lots of new faces on the bench. And reserves mostly play against other reserves, so their duty is to hold the fort, i.e. to defend. They aren't going to score as a unit often, most benches rely on one or two point-generating guys for offense or stagger their starters, so there is always someone on the floor who can create.

Wolves bench unit last year was horrible both because it couldn't score AND was leaking like a sieve, but mostly it was defense that did them in. Early in the season Sam played LaVine-Martin-Muhammad-Bjelica-Dieng as the main bench unit and needless to say the only player close to average defender there was Gorgui. Prince and KG were starting. Miller didn't play at all, till they moved LaVine to SG (and into the starting unit). When KG went down, Mitchell was forced to play Rudez and Payne (and later Smith). Then they swapped Dieng into starting unit for Prince, got rid of Martin, started playing Miller a little, etc. But two factors for bad bench play remained:
- lack of defense, that stemmed from having weak individual defenders all over (other than Prince);
- rebounding/interior toughness (lack of reliable bigs, Mitchell had to beg for a free agent signing at one point).

This year Thibs replaced almost every weak defender they had with an average/good one. Dunn/Rush are miles better defensively than LaVine/Martin or Miller/Jones. No more minutes eaten by below NBA level talent bigs in Rudez/Payne/Smith. Jordan Hill is actually better than all of them and he's the 3rd bigman off the bench now. Aldrich is rock-solid inside. Both Bjelica and Muhammad should be expected to improve defensively under Thibs (especially Nemanja, Bazz less so).

[Devilzsidewalk]

Went to the wolves fan fest thing tonight. Nothing to scream about, players came out, did some weird streatches, had a brief warm up, and then played a half assed scrimmage for 30 minutes lol. It was no dunks after dark. What was cool was seeing the guys up close and checking out our badass scoreboard. Thing is great. They also have 4 other screens in each corner of the arena that are about as big as the old scoreboard. Great investment.

I saw a video of John Lucas throwing down a mean reverse jam.

[LibertyPrime]

Really want to see Thibs play Jones and Dunn together before doing anything rash (like trading Tyus). I know Tyus probaby isn't a prototypical Thibs kind of PG, but part of the reason Dunn thrived in summer league is because he had more freedom with Tyus taking the reins. Let Tyus play, let Dunn play off-the-ball until he gains familiarity with the NBA game and running the offense. (Yeah, I know our long-range shooting will suffer until Kris' shot comes around, but I think it'll be best for Dunn and the team in the long run.)

[LibertyPrime]

Went to the wolves fan fest thing tonight. Nothing to scream about, players came out, did some weird streatches, had a brief warm up, and then played a half assed scrimmage for 30 minutes lol. It was no dunks after dark. What was cool was seeing the guys up close and checking out our badass scoreboard. Thing is great. They also have 4 other screens in each corner of the arena that are about as big as the old scoreboard. Great investment.

I saw a video of John Lucas throwing down a mean reverse jam.

HOLY COW! HE CAN STILL DO THAT AT AGE 62?

Spoiler:

[Worm Guts]

The John Lucas thing kind of annoys me. We know what John Lucas is, and I'm not sure why we need a fringe NBA player in his 30's to be our 3rd string PG. Let Tyus be the 3rd string PG unless/until he proves he's liability.

[Mattya]

The John Lucas thing kind of annoys me. We know what John Lucas is, and I'm not sure why we need a fringe NBA player in his 30's to be our 3rd string PG. Let Tyus be the 3rd string PG unless/until he proves he's liability.

It only bugs me if we trade him and don't get an equal prospect in return. If we can somehow pull a Jerami Grant out of the deal. I'll be pretty happy.