Ken Rosenthal: Brewers nearly traded Gwynn for Otsuka

trwi7 · Post #21 » by **trwi7** » Sun Jul 8, 2007 10:31 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:He has a 2.5 Era with 23 ks this year. and he throws right.

Id much rather wait and get a left hander.

His 2.5 ERA would be the best on our team and we can call up Thatcher or Parra for a lefty. You're not going to get a better reliever than Otsuka.

Plus that 2.5 ERA takes place in that bandbox in Texas.

livestrong4ever · Post #22 » by **livestrong4ever** » Sun Jul 8, 2007 10:35 pm

Sorry man i still wouldn't give up a future OF for a guy who will play in the majors for maybe anther 4,5 years.

trwi7 · Post #23 » by **trwi7** » Sun Jul 8, 2007 11:11 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:Sorry man i still wouldn't give up a future OF for a guy who will play in the majors for maybe anther 4,5 years.

Why not? Where is Gwynn going to play? Hall is in CF for at least 4 years, Hart is in RF for 5 years and LaPorta is on the fast track and Jenkins can stop gap until he's ready.

Seriously you're getting a top notch reliever for a backup outfielder for us. Why would you not do that?

SugarRay34 · Post #24 » by **SugarRay34** » Sun Jul 8, 2007 11:13 pm

Sorry man i still wouldn't give up a future OF for a guy who will play in the majors for maybe anther 4,5 years.

If Gwynn is our "future OF" we are in big trouble. There is absolutely no room for this guy. Laporta in LF, Hall in CF, Hart in RF. Otsuka is a top notch reliever and has shown the past couple years hes is that same thing.

livestrong4ever · Post #25 » by **livestrong4ever** » Sun Jul 8, 2007 11:18 pm

SugarRay34 wrote:
Sorry man i still wouldn't give up a future OF for a guy who will play in the majors for maybe anther 4,5 years.

If Gwynn is our "future OF" we are in big trouble. There is absolutely no room for this guy. Laporta in LF, Hall in CF, Hart in RF. Otsuka is a top notch reliever and has shown the past couple years hes is that same thing.

Why is everyone so fast to give Laporta the LF position. I don't get it. Tony Gwynn Jr has been playing good . He is a true lead off hitter.

trwi7 · Post #26 » by **trwi7** » Sun Jul 8, 2007 11:33 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Why is everyone so fast to give Laporta the LF position. I don't get it. Tony Gwynn Jr has been playing good . He is a true lead off hitter.

Because he was drafted to play there? Jenkins and Mench platoon is better than Gwynn so I'd rather have Jenkins/Mench than Gwynn starting.

Also I hate this true leadoff hitter crap. What's the leadoff hitters job? To get on base. Well look at Gwynn's minor league numbers for his career.

.270/.344/.338/.682/208 BB/290 K/109 SB/47 CS

Does that look like a leadoff hitter to you or even a competent major league starter? The guy can't even carry a .700 OPS in nearly 1,900 minor league AB's.

And for a guy whose main attribute is speed he can't even steal bases at a 70% clip in the minors (109 for 156 for a .698).

Sorry we're in trouble if this guy is going to leadoff for us.

Post #27 » by **MickeyDavis** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 12:46 am

trwi7 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Because he was drafted to play there?

Corey Hart was drafted as a 1B. He played 1B exclusively his first two minor league seasons, the next year he split between 1B and 3B, played a full season at 3B and THEN was moved to the OF.

LaPorta was drafted as a left fielder, but who knows where he'll end up.

SugarRay34 · Post #28 » by **SugarRay34** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 1:30 am

They already said they are grooming him for LF. He was a 1B in college and hes obviously not going to be playing there in Milwaukee. Hes not half the athlete Corey Hart is. Its either LF, RF, 1B

Post #29 » by **MickeyDavis** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 2:14 am

I know they are grooming him for LF. They were grooming Hart for 1B, then 3B, then OF.

Right now it looks like LaPorta will be a perfect fit for LF, but who knows what happens in the next year or two, free agency, trades, injuries. A lot can happen.

Plus, we could of course be a bust.

livestrong4ever · Post #30 » by **livestrong4ever** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 2:38 am

MickeyDavis wrote:I know they are grooming him for LF. They were grooming Hart for 1B, then 3B, then OF.

Right now it looks like LaPorta will be a perfect fit for LF, but who knows what happens in the next year or two, free agency, trades, injuries. A lot can happen.

Plus, we could of course be a bust.

Thats what my point was.

And stop bringing up TG minor league stats his OBP in the majors is .368 and thats pretty damn good.

Id much rather have him leading off then corey hart. Corey hart will be a better fit in the 5th spot, with his power.

trwi7 · Post #31 » by **trwi7** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 3:44 am

MickeyDavis wrote:I know they are grooming him for LF. They were grooming Hart for 1B, then 3B, then OF.

Right now it looks like LaPorta will be a perfect fit for LF, but who knows what happens in the next year or two, free agency, trades, injuries. A lot can happen.

Plus, we could of course be a bust.

There is such a huge difference between the athletic ability of Hart and LaPorta.

trwi7 · Post #32 » by **trwi7** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 3:48 am

And stop bringing up TG minor league stats his OBP in the majors is .368 and thats pretty damn good.

Why should 30 good at bats in the majors hold more weight than 1,900 in the minors?

Oh and his line in the majors is...

.280/.318/.327/.645/10 BB/34 K in 168 AB's

Id much rather have him leading off then corey hart.

Yes his .318 OBP in 168 major league AB's would look so great at the top of the order. Man he's so good I think I'm gonna wet myself.

Corey hart will be a better fit in the 5th spot, with his power.

Yeah that's fine if we get another true lead off option which Gwynn is NOT.

livestrong4ever · Post #33 » by **livestrong4ever** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 12:24 pm

trwi7 wrote:
And stop bringing up TG minor league stats his OBP in the majors is .368 and thats pretty damn good.

Why should 30 good at bats in the majors hold more weight than 1,900 in the minors?

Oh and his line in the majors is...

.280/.318/.327/.645/10 BB/34 K in 168 AB's

Id much rather have him leading off then corey hart.

Yes his .318 OBP in 168 major league AB's would look so great at the top of the order. Man he's so good I think I'm gonna wet myself.

Corey hart will be a better fit in the 5th spot, with his power.

Yeah that's fine if we get another true lead off option which Gwynn is NOT.

He has a .354 OBP this year.
Like you said he only has 168 career AB why are you just giving up on him already? Thats not making a lot of sense to me. I would at least give him anther year or two to develop. But if you look at the way he hits runs and plays defense i think he has a real chance of being the lead off hitter and be a starter for this team.

Look at the 100 or so career at bats for Corey hart would you think he would be as good as he is now?

Look at Alex Gordon's career first 100 AB yeah he won't develop into nothing either.

Ayt · Post #34 » by **Ayt** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 2:30 pm

There is nothing in Gwynn's track record to suggest he will be a starting caliber OF in the majors. Hart tore up the minors and Alex Gordon was the #2 overall pick who crushed in AA in his lone season in the minors.

Guys like trwi7 and I aren't "giving up on Gwynn already." We were never behind him in the first place since he's not much of a prospect. He makes Craig Counsell look like Babe Ruth.

Asher · Post #35 » by **Asher** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:15 pm

gwynn is noted as a fantastic defensive center fielder; it's his strongest selling point. he's also the only guy on our roster probably capable of stealing more than 35 bases a season, a department we lack in, save corey hart. if gwynn can hit for average, carry a high obp, and steal 35+ he's a great center fielder.

gwynn has definitely shown more than laporta for all the finger-crossers, and like mickeydavis and livestrong said, he could be nothing. i would definitely keep gwynn over nix, gross, mench, and having a guy like gwynn as your 4th of is a blessing.

melvin obviously believes in gwynn, and i believe in melvin.

Ayt · Post #36 » by **Ayt** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:57 pm

Asher wrote:gwynn is noted as a fantastic defensive center fielder; it's his strongest selling point. he's also the only guy on our roster probably capable of stealing more than 35 bases a season, a department we lack in, save corey hart. if gwynn can hit for average, carry a high obp, and steal 35+ he's a great center fielder.

gwynn has definitely shown more than laporta for all the finger-crossers, and like mickeydavis and livestrong said, he could be nothing. i would definitely keep gwynn over nix, gross, mench, and having a guy like gwynn as your 4th of is a blessing.

melvin obviously believes in gwynn, and i believe in melvin.

Hopefully they bring back Jenkins or sign someone else to play LF next year because I sure as hell don't want Tony "I'm one of the weakest hitting players in baseball" Gwynn playing very often.

Even with his supposed great year this year he shouldn't hit any higher than 8th. The guy has 3 freakin extra base hits. Dave Bush has 2 in a third of the AB's.

Gwynn is a pinch runner/defense sub at best. He's probably a good pinch bunter as well.

For some reason people project him to be a player he has never been.

livestrong4ever · Post #37 » by **livestrong4ever** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 8:13 pm

Ayt wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Hopefully they bring back Jenkins or sign someone else to play LF next year because I sure as hell don't want Tony "I'm one of the weakest hitting players in baseball" Gwynn playing very often.

Even with his supposed great year this year he shouldn't hit any higher than 8th. The guy has 3 freakin extra base hits. Dave Bush has 2 in a third of the AB's.

Gwynn is a pinch runner/defense sub at best. He's probably a good pinch bunter as well.

For some reason people project him to be a player he has never been.

Who cares if he is the weakest hitting player in baseball? He gets on base, he gets hits ,he can steal bases, plays good defense, sounds like a perfect lead off hitter to me.

brewcityboii · Post #38 » by **brewcityboii** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 8:16 pm

Tony Gwynn Jr. <<<<< Pat Listach

Tony Gwynn Jr....A poor mans Julio Lugo.

Get rid of him Melvin

brewcityboii · Post #39 » by **brewcityboii** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 8:17 pm

he can steal bases

Not at a good percentage

livestrong4ever · Post #40 » by **livestrong4ever** » Mon Jul 9, 2007 8:26 pm

brewcityboii wrote:
he can steal bases

Not at a good percentage

He's got the speed its not like they can't easily work on when to go/when not to go.

Hes got 6 stolen bases this year only caught once.