Pistons vs my favorite non-Pistons player (Giannis)

[Todd3]

The whole championship talk is (Please Use More Appropriate Word). If that's the case the argument should be about Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond in whether these guys are 1 and 2 or even 2,3 on a championship team. Not the supporting cast.

AMEN!

We are not YET looking at the grand prize because we're not YET at that point.

SVG knows this. But you can't promote the fact you just wanna make the 2nd round right now

FMD people expect to go from 5 year LOSER to legit title contender in 3 years...and to do it without acquiring a single top 5 player?

WTF?

I'm not talking about this year. But Dre is only signed 4 more years, and most fans would like to see us win a championship with him at some point.

[Blkbrd671]

IMO we're not trying to win a championship so the discussion around Champion SGs & KCP is irrelevant

What we're trying to do is go from the East's worst record over a 5 year period to a "winning" team.

Community asset...regular playoffs...said it all before.

Some people view teams as "champions or bust", some have a more realistic approach: only one champion can be crowned each season & not winning it doesn't mean you've failed

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absolutely disagree.

You can disagree mate. It's still my opinion though.

No teams goes into any game trying to lose, and by consequence every team wants to win or win a championship.

1 - I didn't say we are trying to lose

2 - by trying not to be a losing team doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to win a championship

In any sport the first step to that is getting to the playoffs as any team can beat any team in a 7 games series as injuries and slumps happen all the time. The last step is winning 4 games first. The Raptors are a perfect example of that.

And one can argue IF the Raptors were even attempting to win a championship or were simply trying to make the playoffs dude

as far as expectations, no one is debating that not being a championship = failure. The debate is

"Is there a trend to reasonably determine what skill set a SG on a championship team needs to have. A poster stated "must be above average 3 point shooter", facts were brought to disprove that. So discussing Wade vs KCP or any championship SG is only relevant if their is reasonable proof that all SG's on championship team possess this skill/trait.

Lastly we are trying to win a championship. IN FACT SVG's MOTTO IS

WHY NOT US?


Detroit vs Everybody

Lol

Why not us? How long you got?

Again, I'm not interested in having any discussions involving KCP - they're pointless.

What I'm interested in is this notion that simply because we don't want to be a losing team that somehow means we've got our eyes on the prize already...



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lol, you basically created your own discussion off our interaction with TSE that has nothing to do with the original discussion. Your statement stating KCP vs championship SG is irrelevant when in fact whether we are looking at a championship this year or in the future it is relevant. If your goal was to stop the KCP discussion, it was horrible logic.

There are numerous examples in the NBA where teams have not been trying to win the title but were trying to make the playoffs.

by saying this you've conceded your point. Unless your argument is teams just want to make the playoffs are perfectly happy once they get there and what happens subsequently is irrelevant to players, coaches and franchise.

You can try to adjust my logic, but in the end whether it is to win games, make the playoffs, or develop your talent, the ultimate goal is to do those things to win a championship.


Now in response to your original post where you contest that the Pistons are contending this season, again SVG gave a arousing speech before training camp which ultimate message was WHY NOT US? and he wasn't talking about just making the playoffs.
So while yes it is your opinion, my side of the argument so happens to align with our coaches and players.

While you contest that SVG just can't say what he really means, that not only contradicts who SVG is as a coach and person but also disagree's with how our team has accepted and taken up that challenge.

[Pharaoh]

absolutely disagree.

You can disagree mate. It's still my opinion though.



1 - I didn't say we are trying to lose

2 - by trying not to be a losing team doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to win a championship





And one can argue IF the Raptors were even attempting to win a championship or were simply trying to make the playoffs dude

Lol

Why not us? How long you got?

Again, I'm not interested in having any discussions involving KCP - they're pointless.

What I'm interested in is this notion that simply because we don't want to be a losing team that somehow means we've got our eyes on the prize already...



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lol, you basically created your own discussion off our interaction with TSE that has nothing to do with the original discussion. Your statement stating KCP vs championship SG is irrelevant when in fact whether we are looking at a championship this year or in the future it is relevant. If your goal was to stop the KCP discussion, it was horrible logic.

At least I try to steer discussion away from the same old stuff about KCP

BTW, my point was the discussion about IF KCP could be a starting SG on a legit contender is pointless because WE ARE NOT contenders YET!

There are numerous examples in the NBA where teams have not been trying to win the title but were trying to make the playoffs.

by saying this you've conceded your point. Unless your argument is teams just want to make the playoffs are perfectly happy once they get there and what happens subsequently is irrelevant to players, coaches and franchise.

I'll concede nothing and state for the record that numerous franchises are happy to be a playoff team year after year.

You're looking at this from a fan's POV & not as an owner: only one owner wins the whole thing. That doesn't mean you don't care but as a businessman you have realistic goals & expectations

You can try to adjust my logic, but in the end whether it is to win games, make the playoffs, or develop your talent, the ultimate goal is to do those things to win a championship.

You can win 55 games every season, develop players, do everything right and still not be a true contender to win a title!

The whole point of my posts has been exactly that!

Now in response to your original post where you contest that the Pistons are contending this season, again SVG gave a arousing speech before training camp which ultimate message was WHY NOT US? and he wasn't talking about just making the playoffs.
So while yes it is your opinion, my side of the argument so happens to align PUBLICLY with our coaches and players.

While you contest that SVG just can't say what he really means, that not only contradicts who SVG is as a coach and person but also disagree's with how our team has accepted and taken up that challenge.

IF you believe that SVG is an open book to his players and the media then I've got nothing to change your mind...other than the fact that millions of peeps go to work each day and put their best foot forward despite knowing that it's gonna be a struggle to get some project or another done.

They don't whine or complain, they don't share the brutal reality with every single co-worker and the certainly dont inform the masses of other people in or around that business.

Because a real leader doesn't do that! A real leader sucks it up and soldiers on and drags everyone around them through each step of the process UNTIL you get to the point where ultimate success can be delivered

Why Not Us? That says it all and that slogan is for everyone that says "It won't be us because [insert obvious reasons]"...it's a slogan designed to make you re-consider you're mindset - the mindset any rational person has but one that defeats you before a ball is tipped

It's simply an effort to coerce you mentally!



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[Blkbrd671]

Lol

Why not us? How long you got?

Again, I'm not interested in having any discussions involving KCP - they're pointless.

What I'm interested in is this notion that simply because we don't want to be a losing team that somehow means we've got our eyes on the prize already...



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lol, you basically created your own discussion off our interaction with TSE that has nothing to do with the original discussion. Your statement stating KCP vs championship SG is irrelevant when in fact whether we are looking at a championship this year or in the future it is relevant. If your goal was to stop the KCP discussion, it was horrible logic.

At least I try to steer discussion away from the same old stuff about KCP

BTW, my point was the discussion about IF KCP could be a starting SG on a legit contender is pointless because WE ARE NOT contenders YET!

and to that point i say ,Its a difference of opinion, but SVG and our Team seem to think we are and i agree.

I'll concede nothing and state for the record that numerous franchises are happy to be a playoff team year after year.

You're looking at this from a fan's POV & not as an owner: only one owner wins the whole thing. That doesn't mean you don't care but as a businessman you have realistic goals & expectations

Like thinking a lineup of Josh smith and Jennings and monroe can get you to the playoffs.

You can win 55 games every season, develop players, do everything right and still not be a true contender to win a title!

The whole point of my posts has been exactly that!

If you want to argue "who are true contenders" at this point in the preseason, then Legitimately GSW and Cleveland are the only contenders for a title, everyone else is just , according to you trying to make the playoffs.

Your arguing a point that is really based on perception and opinion of what a contender is suppose to look like. There is no right answer.

IF you believe that SVG is an open book to his players and the media then I've got nothing to change your mind...other than the fact that millions of peeps go to work each day and put their best foot forward despite knowing that it's gonna be a struggle to get some project or another done.

They don't whine or complain, they don't share the brutal reality with every single co-worker and the certainly dont inform the masses of other people in or around that business.

Because a real leader doesn't do that! A real leader sucks it up and soldiers on and drags everyone around them through each step of the process UNTIL you get to the point where ultimate success can be delivered

Why Not Us? That says it all and that slogan is for everyone that says "It won't be us because [insert obvious reasons]"...it's a slogan designed to make you re-consider you're mindset - the mindset any rational person has but one that defeats you before a ball is tipped

It's simply an effort to coerce you mentally!



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Again the definition of "CONTENDER" is based on a opinion and we disagree on where the Pistons are at. That is fine


Trying to debate "what SVG really thinks" is a pointless debate. You don't know it , and neither do I. What we do know is what is said, written or put on film. Unless you have intimate knowledge or evidence that SVG is just BS'ing, which again goes against his very character, I'll believe in what SVG is saying. That we can go all the way.

[Pharaoh]

Q: do we have a legit shot at the title this season?

A: No!

Q: Why not us? SVG said so!

A: Cause he can't say we're looking at the 2nd round, possibly ECF and if we get that far that's awesome!

I don't need to be inside SVGs head to know the truth dude

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[Blkbrd671]

Q: do we have a legit shot at the title this season?

A: No!

again its your OPINION vs Mine . We disagree

Q: Why not us? SVG said so!

A: Cause he can't say we're looking at the 2nd round, possibly ECF and if we get that far that's awesome!

I don't need to be inside SVGs head to know the truth dude

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So essentially your evidence is "because i said so". Which is no evidence.

Until you have reason to believe SVG is full of sh*, which isn't who he is, then there is no reason to believe SVG doesn't see us as contenders.

[Pharaoh]

Q: do we have a legit shot at the title this season?

A: No!

again its your OPINION vs Mine . We disagree

Q: Why not us? SVG said so!

A: Cause he can't say we're looking at the 2nd round, possibly ECF and if we get that far that's awesome!

I don't need to be inside SVGs head to know the truth dude

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So essentially your evidence is "because i said so". Which is no evidence.

Until you have reason to believe SVG is full of sh*, which isn't who he is, then there is no reason to believe SVG doesn't see us as contenders.

WTF?

The entire planet knows we're not contenders dude

GSW v Cavs is the expected Finals by everyone with any idea

Do you honestly believe SVG is stupid?

You're better than this

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[Blkbrd671]

Q: do we have a legit shot at the title this season?

A: No!

again its your OPINION vs Mine . We disagree

Q: Why not us? SVG said so!

A: Cause he can't say we're looking at the 2nd round, possibly ECF and if we get that far that's awesome!

I don't need to be inside SVGs head to know the truth dude

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So essentially your evidence is "because i said so". Which is no evidence.

Until you have reason to believe SVG is full of sh*, which isn't who he is, then there is no reason to believe SVG doesn't see us as contenders.

WTF?

The entire planet knows we're not contenders dude

GSW v Cavs is the expected Finals by everyone with any idea

Do you honestly believe SVG is stupid?

You're better than this

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Agree to disagree. Again you have no evidence that SVG is bullsh* the team only your speculation.

The entire planet may THINK we aren't Contenders but

Detroit vs Everybody

[Pharaoh]

again its your OPINION vs Mine . We disagree



So essentially your evidence is "because i said so". Which is no evidence.

Until you have reason to believe SVG is full of sh*, which isn't who he is, then there is no reason to believe SVG doesn't see us as contenders.

WTF?

The entire planet knows we're not contenders dude

GSW v Cavs is the expected Finals by everyone with any idea

Do you honestly believe SVG is stupid?

You're better than this

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Agree to disagree. Again you have no evidence that SVG is bullsh* the team only your speculation.

The entire planet may THINK we aren't Contenders but

Detroit vs Everybody

LMMFAO!

You're arguing just to argue!

We ain't real contenders - knowing that simple fact allows me to enjoy the process of building towards it

Your delusion helps you how?

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[Blkbrd671]

LMMFAO!

You're arguing just to argue!

We ain't real contenders - knowing that simple fact allows me to enjoy the process of building towards it

Your delusion helps you how?

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not at all, i am merely asking your to provide any sort of basis for your taking such a hardline position that your unwilling concede that its just YOUR OPINION. Particularly how you can read SVG's mind and KNOW that SVG isn't talking about contending but 2nd round of the playoffs when he says WHY NOT US?.

The only one delusion'd during this discussion is you as your stating your opinion as fact, when its still just a opinion.

[joedumars1]

If I was a athlete i'm always thinking i'm going to win and always fighting no matter what.

I know totally different sports, but do you think Cleveland Indiands thought no we're not Chip contenders. I believe the Royals 1-3 years ago too. I'm sure there's others.

I'm always thinking I can win and playing like it. I know some professionals don't have that attitude. I think that is sucks. Don't like players like that. Even if we sucked bad I wouldn't show my team that I think we will lose or get down on my self. Cause what would that help? Just shows your teammates well we suck he's not trying why should I That probably doesn't really have to do with anything, but felt like saying it lol.

[Pharaoh]

LMMFAO!

You're arguing just to argue!

We ain't real contenders - knowing that simple fact allows me to enjoy the process of building towards it

Your delusion helps you how?

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not at all, i am merely asking your to provide any sort of basis for your taking such a hardline position that your unwilling concede that its just YOUR OPINION. Particularly how you can read SVG's mind and KNOW that SVG isn't talking about contending but 2nd round of the playoffs when he says WHY NOT US?.

The only one delusion'd during this discussion is you as your stating your opinion as fact, when its still just a opinion.

It's not just my opinion that we're not legit contenders!

GM survey supports my position

Feel free to ask the General Board, the Off Topic board you frequent, the trade board or your ironing board brother cause I'm confident the vast majority of people will tell you we're not a legit contender.

And since I provided some kind of evidence to support my opinion - the unbiased GM survey here's your challenge:

Find someone without a vested interest that supports your position that we're legit contenders

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[Blkbrd671]

LMMFAO!

You're arguing just to argue!

We ain't real contenders - knowing that simple fact allows me to enjoy the process of building towards it

Your delusion helps you how?

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

not at all, i am merely asking your to provide any sort of basis for your taking such a hardline position that your unwilling concede that its just YOUR OPINION. Particularly how you can read SVG's mind and KNOW that SVG isn't talking about contending but 2nd round of the playoffs when he says WHY NOT US?.

The only one delusion'd during this discussion is you as your stating your opinion as fact, when its still just a opinion.

It's not just my opinion that we're not legit contenders!

GM survey supports my position

Feel free to ask the General Board, the Off Topic board you frequent, the trade board or your ironing board brother cause I'm confident the vast majority of people will tell you we're not a legit contender.

And since I provided some kind of evidence to support my opinion - the unbiased GM survey here's your challenge:

Find someone without a vested interest that supports your position that we're legit contenders

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Do we have a legit shot to make the ECF and win? Yes, my opinion
Do we have a legit shot to make the finals and win? yes, my opinion

I believe the majority of ppl would say "no" about our proposition to become champs this year, but again THAT IS THEIR OPINION. Its one thing if your bringing statistics or some sort of valid point about how we are not ready, but all your saying is "everybody says so, so that makes me right", when it fact it doesn't.

I can bring up all my questions marks surrounding our team and how NBA season's long and injuries and trades happen all the time, but i'd assume you understand that at this point. In the end, the basis for my argument is SVG built this team in his vision and if he thinks we have a chance, no matter how small it maybe, i am willing to believe in our coach as he's proved at least to me that he knows what he's doing.

[Blkbrd671]

Sorry almost forgot,

Detroit vs Everybody

[Pharaoh]

not at all, i am merely asking your to provide any sort of basis for your taking such a hardline position that your unwilling concede that its just YOUR OPINION. Particularly how you can read SVG's mind and KNOW that SVG isn't talking about contending but 2nd round of the playoffs when he says WHY NOT US?.

The only one delusion'd during this discussion is you as your stating your opinion as fact, when its still just a opinion.

It's not just my opinion that we're not legit contenders!

GM survey supports my position

Feel free to ask the General Board, the Off Topic board you frequent, the trade board or your ironing board brother cause I'm confident the vast majority of people will tell you we're not a legit contender.

And since I provided some kind of evidence to support my opinion - the unbiased GM survey here's your challenge:

Find someone without a vested interest that supports your position that we're legit contenders

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Do we have a legit shot to make the ECF and win? Yes, my opinion
Do we have a legit shot to make the finals and win? yes, my opinion

I believe the majority of ppl would say "no" about our proposition to become champs this year, but again THAT IS THEIR OPINION. Its one thing if your bringing statistics or some sort of valid point about how we are not ready, but all your saying is "everybody says so, so that makes me right", when it fact it doesn't.

I can bring up all my questions marks surrounding our team and how NBA season's long and injuries and trades happen all the time, but i'd assume you understand that at this point. In the end, the basis for my argument is SVG built this team in his vision and if he thinks we have a chance, no matter how small it maybe, i am willing to believe in our coach as he's proved at least to me that he knows what he's doing.

So every NBA expert says we're not a legit contender and you're response is that is simply an opinion and everyone is wrong cause...

That's why we play the games?

While technically you're correct imagine you're a Philly fan and we're having the sane argument:

Are you now insane? Or is that why we play the games?

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[Blkbrd671]

It's not just my opinion that we're not legit contenders!

GM survey supports my position

Feel free to ask the General Board, the Off Topic board you frequent, the trade board or your ironing board brother cause I'm confident the vast majority of people will tell you we're not a legit contender.

And since I provided some kind of evidence to support my opinion - the unbiased GM survey here's your challenge:

Find someone without a vested interest that supports your position that we're legit contenders

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Do we have a legit shot to make the ECF and win? Yes, my opinion
Do we have a legit shot to make the finals and win? yes, my opinion

I believe the majority of ppl would say "no" about our proposition to become champs this year, but again THAT IS THEIR OPINION. Its one thing if your bringing statistics or some sort of valid point about how we are not ready, but all your saying is "everybody says so, so that makes me right", when it fact it doesn't.

I can bring up all my questions marks surrounding our team and how NBA season's long and injuries and trades happen all the time, but i'd assume you understand that at this point. In the end, the basis for my argument is SVG built this team in his vision and if he thinks we have a chance, no matter how small it maybe, i am willing to believe in our coach as he's proved at least to me that he knows what he's doing.

So every NBA expert says we're not a legit contender and you're response is that is simply an opinion and everyone is wrong cause...

I am saying if 100 people think GSW are going to win a title and 1 person says the Detroit Pistons are going to win a title, who's right? neither because its just a opinion.

and for the record, its not like we were a sh* team last year, we had one of the best starting 5's and literally the worst bench and still made it to the playoffs where we were swept by the champs, but took it too them. So while its not likely we win a title , i am not completely writing us off. and again, I am not the only one that thinks so. IF our coach thinks we have a shot, and our team believes we do, why am i going to disagree. Cuz f* chad ford says no!?

That's why we play the games?

While technically you're correct imagine you're a Philly fan and we're having the sane argument:

Are you now insane? Or is that why we play the games?

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Lets clear something up. There are 2 separate discussions here.

1.) is Detroit a contender

2.) Does everyone play a season to win a championship.

This is regard to #2

Does every team play the regular season to make the playoffs? yes
Does every team think they are going to make the playoffs? no
Does every team, despite expectations, stlil try to make the playoffs? yes
Does every team that makes the playoffs just settle and not try to win a championship? F* NO

Philly is the worst example and literally a outlier with their dumba* experiments that still may end up being fruitful. But when you look at 30 other teams, no team is going into the season not trying to get to the playoffs and win championship. To argue that only certain teams are actually trying because Chad Ford said they aren't contenders is unrealistic depiction of the NBA.

[ComboGuardCity]

There's always a chance at a championship. Slim? Yes. But there is always a chance. Odd makers say so.

[Pharaoh]

1 - We're not a legit contender

2 - not every teamis trying to be one every season.

These things are facts

Arguing otherwise is arguing semantics


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[Blkbrd671]

1 - We're not a legit contender

2 - not every teamis trying to be one every season.

These things are facts

Arguing otherwise is arguing semantics


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Agree to disagree.

We are all entitled to our opinions