Harrison Barnes Preseason Stats.

[dc]

Not a good look but I hope he turns it around in the season. I think he can be a great player.

The track record for guys with his amount of experience (~300 games played, ~250 game started + playoffs) all of a sudden transforming from an average player to a great player isn't very promising.

[Edrees]

Lol if you don't want to count pre season how about we look at his stats last playoffs to judge him? That gives me an even worse impression of him

Do we judge Curry by his playoff performance? No.

Barnes was fine last season, but no one in their right mind should have thought he would be more productive statistically than KD.

I judge a player on everything. So yes I do. Curry has amazing playoff averages if you look at every playoff game he's played. He's also ha da pretty good pre season.
Harrison Barnes, not so much. It's like, no matter what stats I bring up "you can't judge him on those" Playoffs, pre season etc, no matter what is brought up, you can't judge harrison barnes on it!

[papidulo]

When i see harrison barnes, i think of someone like Otto Porter for the Wizards; someone who has the technique down, so ppl assume theyll be good; but they just dont have that fire and energy that high level players have, so theyll always be a role player.

[OnceUponADime]

It's amazing all the accolades he's accomplished for being a rather mediocre player. NBA champion, Gold Medal and now max contract.

I'm still amazed that they didn't sent someone like Rudy Gay, Gordon Hayward or Kenneth Faried to Rio instead of him.

[Takingbaconback]

Barnes is more of a bench guy than a starter

When the Warriors first signed Igoudala, Mark Jackson made Barnes the 6th man and the primary offensive option off the bench. He was terrible at it. His efficiency dropped off from his rookie season when he was a starter.

Kerr specifically put Barnes back into the starting lineup to get him going again. And it did work, as Barnes efficiency his 3rd and 4th seasons were clearly better than the season where he spent much of it coming off the bench.

Same goes for Iggy. His first year as starter under Jackson, came with better FG% TS% and 3PT% than his following 2 years spent on the bench. Playing with Curry, Klay, and later on Green, obviously benifits for any player, and leading the 2nd unit will hurt anyone's efficiency. It's more of Iggy's ability to lead the 2nd unit made Kerr switch him to bench, which Harrison Barnes has none - and Cuban somehow believes he got some.

Yeah I don't think Barnes being better when playing with Curry, Thompson, and Green as a starter means that he's a starter caliber player. Anybody who plays next to those guys are going to look better.

I still believe he is much more of a bench level guy. I would put him around the talent level of Jeff Green.

[oaktownwarriors87]

When the Warriors first signed Igoudala, Mark Jackson made Barnes the 6th man and the primary offensive option off the bench. He was terrible at it. His efficiency dropped off from his rookie season when he was a starter.

Kerr specifically put Barnes back into the starting lineup to get him going again. And it did work, as Barnes efficiency his 3rd and 4th seasons were clearly better than the season where he spent much of it coming off the bench.

Same goes for Iggy. His first year as starter under Jackson, came with better FG% TS% and 3PT% than his following 2 years spent on the bench. Playing with Curry, Klay, and later on Green, obviously benifits for any player, and leading the 2nd unit will hurt anyone's efficiency. It's more of Iggy's ability to lead the 2nd unit made Kerr switch him to bench, which Harrison Barnes has none - and Cuban somehow believes he got some.

Yeah I don't think Barnes being better when playing with Curry, Thompson, and Green as a starter means that he's a starter caliber player. Anybody who plays next to those guys are going to look better.

I still believe he is much more of a bench level guy. I would put him around the talent and impact level of Jeff Green.

Except he sucked when he came off the bench

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

I've been telling everyone on the Dubs' board (when he was 2 seasons into his career) that he wasn't going to be a star. Coach Jackson at the time gave him free reign to do what he wanted in the 2nd unit, and he blew most of those opportunities. And they've said I've smoked too many joints to make that statement (Okay, maybe I hit a few). But, was I sure right. He just tries to do too many things that he's not even good at.

[Takingbaconback]

Same goes for Iggy. His first year as starter under Jackson, came with better FG% TS% and 3PT% than his following 2 years spent on the bench. Playing with Curry, Klay, and later on Green, obviously benifits for any player, and leading the 2nd unit will hurt anyone's efficiency. It's more of Iggy's ability to lead the 2nd unit made Kerr switch him to bench, which Harrison Barnes has none - and Cuban somehow believes he got some.

Yeah I don't think Barnes being better when playing with Curry, Thompson, and Green as a starter means that he's a starter caliber player. Anybody who plays next to those guys are going to look better.

I still believe he is much more of a bench level guy. I would put him around the talent and impact level of Jeff Green.

Except he sucked when he came off the bench

I guess then he is a bench player, unless you are implying he should be off the team entirely lol

[ken6199]

It's amazing all the accolades he's accomplished for being a rather mediocre player. NBA champion, Gold Medal and now max contract.

I'm still amazed that they didn't sent someone like Rudy Gay, Gordon Hayward or Kenneth Faried to Rio instead of him.

In all fairness, Barnes is younger, a hard worker, and can guard 2-4. Some of those mentioned three either have this or that, but not all. Being healthy + looking good on a championship team by winning score you $$$. (Dmo is everything on the opposite side, more talented, on a mediocre team, can't stay healthy). Another recent similar example? Trevor Ariza came to Rockets (1st stint) wearing #1 jersey coming of his Lakers championship run, with the expectation to take over Tmac's role as the first scoring option. We know how that went.

Barnes is a bench player, no doubt about it. He is bench because he is not starting caliber, Iggy is bench player because his talent is overlapped with Curry/Green so for that team he is better off pulling string for the 2nd unit, or situationally deployed to the 1st unit for defensive purpose. Iggy year 1 under Jackson, year 2 & 3 under Kerr, people be like 'nah Jackson is an idiot, Kerr is a genius, the latter two years we talking about 67W and 73W teams with historically good ball movement spacing and shooting', and think Iggy shot better in year 2 & 3. Quite the opposite really. So again, Barnes' having seemingly better efficiency in the past two years as a starter has nothing to do with what caliber of a player he is.

[Impuniti]

Lol if you don't want to count pre season how about we look at his stats last playoffs to judge him? That gives me an even worse impression of him

Do we judge Curry by his playoff performance? No.

Barnes was fine last season, but no one in their right mind should have thought he would be more productive statistically than KD.

I judge a player on everything. So yes I do. Curry has amazing playoff averages if you look at every playoff game he's played. He's also ha da pretty good pre season.
Harrison Barnes, not so much. It's like, no matter what stats I bring up "you can't judge him on those" Playoffs, pre season etc, no matter what is brought up, you can't judge harrison barnes on it!

I also don't see where the rating fine is coming from. Dude got adequately replaced by Brandon Rush people. Brandon Rush. When he came back, there wasn't some improvement in the Warrior play that is felt immediately when Klay, Steph, Bogut, Livingston, Iggy or Dray play/don't play. The impressive thing about Barnes is that he was a starter in the team and yet was the 7th best player on the team. His play when Steph went down didn't improve, he was still poor and Klay basically stepped up his game and played like a star to make up for it, with Dray having a few super games in-between. Barnes play was fine if he started for a mid table team in the East or West, not for the 2nd best team in the NBA. He shot 15% in the finals and was wide open for almost every single shot.

[OptionZero]

HB is the ultimate example of how pre-draft hype and draft position are absurdly influential, even when there's games and games worth of evidence to the contrary. The dude's PR and hype team earned their cut of that $94M

At no point has he ever shown the off-the-dribble skill needed to be a lead or secondary scorer. He put up very good shooting % a low-usage role where he was never asked to create. He's not good enough to be put on an island to defend on the perimeter, he offers ZERO rim protection or ballhawking. His best skill is not being killed when guarding Zach Randolph, BUT he couldn't take advantage of Randolph guarding him except to shoot 3's created by others. He regularly fails to beat bigger defenders off the dribble and is highly inconsisting posting up smaller ones. When you give him any shot creating responsibilities, you get a contested 3, guaranteed.

GSW slotted BRANDON RUSH into the starting 3 role and they were just fine. They lacked a true backup 4, so the loss of Barnes early last season was noticeable in that specific role.

Fact is, HB's best role on most teams is reserve 4. If you start him at the 3 you better have other damn good starters.

Were he not drafted in the top 10, or ranked highly on draft boards the year or two before the draft, he would be making MLE money.

[cpower]

still better than his last 2 years

[CoreConcept]

My god, there's an even darker red

[Peja Stojakovic]

has there ever been another player like him?

[Prius]

It's amazing all the accolades he's accomplished for being a rather mediocre player. NBA champion, Gold Medal and now max contract.

I'm still amazed that they didn't sent someone like Rudy Gay, Gordon Hayward or Kenneth Faried to Rio instead of him.

I'm amazed he was even chosen for the Olympics. Did they not have another option so they were stuck with Barnes or something? That is the only thing I can think of because I know for sure he didn't get in with his talent.

[cpower]

It's amazing all the accolades he's accomplished for being a rather mediocre player. NBA champion, Gold Medal and now max contract.

I'm still amazed that they didn't sent someone like Rudy Gay, Gordon Hayward or Kenneth Faried to Rio instead of him.

I'm amazed he was even chosen for the Olympics. Did they not have another option so they were stuck with Barnes or something? That is the only thing I can think of because I know for sure he didn't get in with his talent.

https://thecauldron.si.com/is-harrison-barnes-the-worst-pro-basketball-olympian-of-all-time-624d84645165#.4sswnn1oj
at least he is in the record books

[pipfan]

Gotta say I was REALLY wrong about him. I wanted the Bulls to max him out-would have set us back years.

[510TWSS]

Gotta say I was REALLY wrong about him. I wanted the Bulls to max him out-would have set us back years.

It's ok, you guys made much better moves this offseason.

Just joking, but I do like Lopez came back in that trade.

[og15]

Yes, that's when he was 4th choice and the entire team put defenders on Steph, Klay and then Dray. He basically took wide open shots, because shots he took with someone on him were abysmal %s. He also is higher in the pecking order and has to make his shot, will be marked more. Unless he's magically going to turn into this type of player (he won't), his numbers with the Warriors are bloated. A lot of players TS% would raise 5-10+% in his position had they moved instead of Durant.

You're basically ignoring four years worth of data. Dray was nobody for the first two years of Barnes' career, and while his overall FG% was crappier then, the 3pt shot was there. Wasn't quite as good for sure, but he was still a competent 35% 3pt shooter. He started to get some more corner 3s, so his overall percentages improved. Team quality, no doubt. Assisted buckets, no doubt.

But come on, let's not pretend the Mavs are stupid enough to think that a guy who has never averaged 12 ppg and has never been known for isolation sets is going to suddenly come in there and revolutionize their offense. Do you think Carlisle is a moron?

We know they're running Dirk, Deron and Matthews ahead of him in the pecking order, so I'm not entirely sure where you think Barnes is going to see a major difference in his placement in the pecking order while coming to Dallas. We can pretty much guess that Deron and Barea will be doing the dribble initiation, that Dirk will be the primary threat while he is on the floor, that Matthews will pick up shots after that and that maybe Seth Curry will stick and provide some spacing. Barnes is going to be asked to do only so much, so I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

The guy is a good catch-and-shoot 3pt shooter, particularly when he can camp the corner. Well, funny story, the Mavs are going to run high mid-screens and action for their guards on the wings, and they're going to try to get post-ups for Dirk on the elbows and blocks, and that'll leave space for camp shooters in the corners, which is exactly where he excels and what forms the basis of his skills. He can run out in transition, hit those spots and hit those shots. That's all they're going to ask of him, most likely. Anything more would be foolish, and Carlisle has spent years proving that he is no fool.

I don't think Carlisle is a moron at all, but are we sure that's not what Dallas' plan was? Not necessarily that he will come in and be a star right away, but that they had a desire to mold and develop him into more than a 4th option and versatile role player. Based on what we heard them pitching to DeAndre Jordan in summer 2015 where he would move up the totem pole as an offensive player, a guy who at that time had a career high 11.5 ppg, and based on the contract they offered to Barnes, it's hard to conclude that they signed Barnes just for him to be a good role player.

...but of course speculation is just that, so let's hear it from the coach himself:

“You know, footwork is really important,” Carlisle explained during a recent interview with 103.3 FM ESPN. “I think the situation that he’s coming into, you know, we’re going to need more from him than he’s been doing in Golden State, just in terms of production. He’s no longer playing with those two guys that are both All-Stars. And let’s face it, they’re both perennial MVP-type guys, too. So, you know, he’s going to be one of the better players on our team. We’re going to need him to get in more of an aggressive mindset, so to equip him to do that we’ve got to get him headed in the right direction of the right footwork that can help him be a little bit more of a creator and less of a full-time role player. Now, you know, that’s not to say that he hasn’t been a (heck) of a player. I mean, he’s been a great system player on a championship team. But at age 24, you know, it’s time for him to take the next step, and I think he’s looking forward to doing that.”

http://www.mavs.com/improved-footwork-key-breakout-season-harrison-barnes-rick-carlisle-says/

Now whether Barnes is capable or whether Carlisle will continue to stick to the experiment if Barnes is unable to do much with more responsibility, that's a different question, but in terms of the goal in signing him, it was not for the sake of giving him essentially the same role he had on GS with a large pay raise.

[tsherkin]

I don't think Carlisle is a moron at all, but are we sure that's not what Dallas' plan was? Not necessarily that he will come in and be a star right away, but that they had a desire to mold and develop him into more than a 4th option and versatile role player.

I have faith in Rick Carlisle. For a decade and a half or so, he's been a guy who does more with less. He's a sharp coach. I don't think he's enough of a tool to think that Barnes can anchor his offense. When Dirk retires and Deron is gone and if no one else is around, he may have no choice, but he can't be enough of a muppet to try that BEFORE those things happen.

Based on what we heard them pitching to DeAndre Jordan in summer 2015 where he would move up the totem pole as an offensive player, a guy who at that time had a career high 11.5 ppg, and based on the contract they offered to Barnes, it's hard to conclude that they signed Barnes just for him to be a good role player.

I dunno, I think that was a line for a free agent, and maybe with a view to trying to see if he had more to him than he's shown so far more than anything else.

“You know, footwork is really important,” Carlisle explained during a recent interview with 103.3 FM ESPN. “I think the situation that he’s coming into, you know, we’re going to need more from him than he’s been doing in Golden State, just in terms of production. He’s no longer playing with those two guys that are both All-Stars. And let’s face it, they’re both perennial MVP-type guys, too. So, you know, he’s going to be one of the better players on our team. We’re going to need him to get in more of an aggressive mindset, so to equip him to do that we’ve got to get him headed in the right direction of the right footwork that can help him be a little bit more of a creator and less of a full-time role player. Now, you know, that’s not to say that he hasn’t been a (heck) of a player. I mean, he’s been a great system player on a championship team. But at age 24, you know, it’s time for him to take the next step, and I think he’s looking forward to doing that.”

That's kind of vague, and what they could be doing there is looking for a little skill development. He doesn't say anything about major responsibility, just talking about making him a little more dynamic a threat though, so I'm not sure that really plays here. And it doesnt' say anything about whether Carlisle will stick with him if he doesn't show signs of adapting to those kinds of responsibilities, either.